Onkyo 805 audio delay / lip synch problem - Page 13

I recently updated my 805's firmware from 1.01 to 1.08 and also updated my HDMI firmware from 1.00 to 1.01. I created a post HERE that outlines the changes/improvements I noticed, but for those who don't wanna check out that link, here is the portion that pertains to lip sync:

I have been a big complainer about lip sync issues with the 805. I have not done any actual delay measurements, but I can say that it appears the delay has *improved*. It is still there, but it seems Onkyo was possibly able to write more efficient firmware that reduced it a bit. My favorite test is "The Pianist" chapter on the HD DVD "The Pianist" when he is trying to open the can of food by banging the top of the can quickly with fireplace tools. From my memory of doing prior viewings of that scene, it seems that the delay is better. It still appears that lip sync delay is the worst with lossless audio tracks. I confirmed this by playing both the TrueHD and DD+ tracks on "The Pianist" track. TrueHD did appear to have more delay. I'll continue to monitor this, but it seems to be reduced enough that it is close to a non-issue in my setup.

Has anybody done any actual measurements to see if delay has changed/improved with firmware revisions? I do find it interesting that talk about lip sync issues in threads like this *and* in the 805 thread both seemed to slow down as time has passed. This seems to indicate that perhaps as time passed people were purchasing 805s with newer versions of firmware installed that were improved regarding lip sync delay as compared to earlier purchased 805s.

Any word on the sync issue?

Is it still there, and if yes how many ms is it?

Since i never see any issues regarding denon receivers, i wonder if they dont have the problem, or if the people are too blind to spot it?
I'd guess audyssey would add some delay..

Careful!!!!

Having had the Onkyo with the delay and now owning the Denon 1909, there is NO delay w/Audyssey. What is there can be adjusted until it's gone. FWIW, I had to adjust the audio into the positive to get them to match up. In other words, the audio was coming before the video; the opposite of the 805.

My wife and I both noticed some significant audio delay with our 805 - using PCM input from a satellite receiver. It was somewhat random though, didn't happen all the time. Occasionally, we would hear a brief tick or pop in the output, after which the delay would appear and seemingly remain until the system was shut off (everything). We never noticed any delay using digital output from our DVD player. This was with main firmwre 1.06. I upgraded to 1.08 a couple days ago, and now I have to really strain to find any audio delay. It does seem like there is still a miniscule amount, but it could be my imagination.

Update: We still have some major delay, but it's only on certain channels from our DVR. It's quite noticeable watching live, and gets worse if we record the show and watch later. The network which seems worst is CBS. It's like we're watching a poorly dubbed kung-fu movie, it's really that bad. It doesn't seem restricted to any one show.

This has me more convinced that the delay isn't necessarily from the 805 at all, at least in our case.

I just bought an 805. It came with firmware version 1.08 and the audio delay is very noticeable on my CRT display. I messed with the audio delay settings for a long time until I finally decided that it was already delayed, even at the "0 ms" setting. The speaker distance trick from this thread seems to have helped a little bit, but it is still noticeable on every source (SAT/DVD/PS2). My fiancee doesn't notice it, but I sure do.

I'm pretty disappointed. However, people are talking about flat-panels often introducing ~40 ms of delay, and that should be enough to make it unnoticeable for passive sources, so I think I'll probably keep the unit since I'll be getting a new TV in a few months. And it sounds so darn good...

*crosses fingers*

I had an idea last week that I could set the Onkyo 805 receiver pass through the HDMI audio to my HTDV (Sony 60" SXRD/XBR2), and with both the 805 and TV audio on, I could match the 805 delay to the TV audio, presumably getting the video to match the audio. Sure enough, it worked. Had to do this for three sources as they all required differing audio delay and ended up with these values:

1. TiVo Series 3 HD-DVR (60mS)
2. Roku Netflix streaming box (40mS)
3. Sony PS3/80GB (15mS)

What I did was audibly match the audio level of the TV speakers to that of my 5.1 speakers. Then I varied the delay on the 805 so that there was no perceivable echo. Perhaps not exactly the most scientific method, but seemed to work OK. If anything, the 805 audio matches the delay through the TV as seen and heard by me! Each of the three delays were previously 10-15mS different, and those were set by visually trying to match the audio delay to the video delay.

Just curious if the issue is still there in the new line of receivers.

Theres one major flaw with that test: All you're doing is matching the receiver's audio delay with the TV which is practically useless because no one watches with both tv and receiver audio on. Because the TV is already getting a delayed signal from the receiver, you are ending up with delayed audio on both devices. I think you are assuming that the "hdmi passthrough" on the Onkyo 805 does not have the delay, but it does despite the name.

Any audio that you route through the 805 to your tv will give flawed results (although there may be exceptions for the multi-ch inputs and preouts). Direct connections to each device will give more accurate results.

For instance, if you're using a dvd player/ps3/satbox, then it probably has both analog (L/R) and digital (coax/optical) outputs. Output one of these DIRECLTY to the tv and the other out DIRECTLY to the receiver. You should be able to play through these output in tandem and then you could try to match up the audio like you did before.

A slightly easier way is if you have a cd or dvd player that has a headphone output; you can compare the headphone audio with the recevier's audio.

Except that I want to match the 805 audio with that on the video received Roku Netflix decoder, PS3 & Series 3 TiVo via HDMI through the 805. It works great as I explained above.

i have a delay issue with my tx-sr875 using the karaoke on all surround modes except the direct mode. Even on stereo mode (2 channel worse on all 7 ch stereo) my voice on the microphone is delayed like 0.5 to 1 second and it is really bad. the karaoke is connected via analog L/R to enable the karaoke function. I have used other receivers and there is no delay on them. I set the surround mode usually on All Channel Stereo but now using direct mode sound only outputs in the front speakers. I don't see a delay setting on the set up menu to be able to change it.

If you must have absolutely NO delays, use the Multi-Ch inputs. It should be a good workaround for karaoke as long as you don't have a need for surround modes or EQ ability. This is true for the 805 and probably the 875 as well.

Also be aware that if you are using the L/R analogs on the Multi-Ch inputs, the receiver can't redirect the low frequency bass to your subwoofer because it is effectively a dummy amp. So your L and R speakers are going to be playing 100% of the music and your subwoofer will be useless. You can get a few RCA splitters for the L/R signals to send it to all of 6 channel multi-ch inputs if you really want to utilize all your speakers. Not sure how good that would sound though.

I did a cursory search and found a few comments suggesting that it did but nobody seemed to confirm with a conclusive test that it was fixed. I no longer have my 905 an am in the market again.

Although unrelated, I still see enough out-of-sync HD Network programming that's badly out of sync. The 905 made them worse but they're annoyingly still noticeable.

Yeah, there doesn't seem to be any solution in sight, only workarounds such as using mult-ch input. The other workaround is to delay the video, either by getting a device that delays video or finding a digital television that introduces its own video delay (some sets have inherent video delays).

But then again, this only solves one problem (lip sync) while introducing another problem (video delays, which is fine for movies but bad for gaming and other realtime activities).

I think that the only way to solve audio delay is to introduce VIDEO DELAY, but I can't find any device on the market which can do it!
I noticed that when I put REON ON and use scaling 1080p, 1080i or 720p things get better, audio delay is almost 30ms...still unacceptable but better than 70ms!

anyway, 905 onkyo is the same than 805 or 875...I wonder If 906, 806,etc...have the same audio delay

Agreed that Video Delay is the ticket but nobody has it. The settings you say made it better most likely gave you implicit video delay. My guess is there was so much video delay in the earlier versions of these systems that nobody considered needing it and got used to introducing audio delay to compensate. I never did see a big issue with the delay watching DVD's but network broadcasts still do have substantial audio delay for me. Clearly, lip sync in general is still in the stone ages. You'd think an AV stream would be encoded in such a way that the receiver could sync the streams automatically but clearly not yet.

at this point I just want to know if xx6 series solve this issue, then I will sell my 905 for 906

Video delay is NOT the answer. I have an older Onkyo HT-530 and there is no lag in audio on that system. The system is primarily used for gaming, including 1-frame linking in Street Fighter 3: Third Strike. Introducing a lag in video will make those 1-frame links impossible, as they are all visual.

Simply put, there should be a way to disable any and all processing. sound should not be lagged.

I've read through a few pages of this thread and wanted to see if anyone has any recommendations for me.

I have an 805 with a Pioneer 51fd blu ray player, PS3 and HD-DVD player all hooked up via HDMI. I've only updated the DSP firmware on my 805. The wierd thing is that when we watch movies (usually blurays) on the 51fd most of them will show fine all the way through but we had a few that start off fine, then get the lip sync issue and then will seem to go back to being synced again or keep the lip sync issue till the end of the movie.

I checked All of settings for each component under Source setup in the 805. All but the 51fd (which is hooked up to the cable box input) were set to 0ms. The 51fd (cable box input on the 805) had a default setting of 40ms. I am assuming I should move this to 0ms and it should help with some or all of the lip sync issues we've been having with Blurays on the 51fd. Am I right in this thinking or did I miss something?

Any help is appreciated.

I had this problem on my SR805. I recently bought a NR1007. Do I have to worry about this audio video synch issue on the NR1007 or newer Onkyo receivers? If so I'll just keep my SR805 because the problem is minimal and the receiver is otherwise fantastic.

My NR5008 has it.

It seems odd for them not to simply add more video delay so the lip sync settings can go negative if needed and have a simple test to help you set it.

Agreed!

It looks like my Integra 80.3 has this problem. I'll do some more testing to see what sources are the worst offenders and if turning off Audyssey changes it, but man, why couldn't they just let us go negative on the lip sync setting?!

With some quick testing using Room EQ Wizard (REW) I was able to find the culprit of my lip sync delay, Audyssey's Dynamic Eq. is adding about a 40ms delay.

See my post to the official Integra DHC 80.3 thread for details:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21851035

Happy day and celebration!!!

After a year of frustrated using of analog input I finally managed to remove ALL delay on digital input (optical channel)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steps to fix:

1. Update firmware to latest version (or use at least not earlier than of yesterday).
2. Select Direct mode. (Audyssey off, Dynamic E/Q and volume doesn't influence much, though off too).
3. (the culprit) In A/V Sync select '-200 msec'!

That will remove ALL lags on digital audio channel (I'm pretty sure not only optical will work). It is appropriate for musical instrument playing (like digital piano). I do not know if this will be appropriate for any other cases (like video games playing with video through receiver).

Though, on thorough check, there are still several milliseconds on optical. Almost unnoticeable, but spoils impression from piano playing. Will continue to use analog...
But now at least I know, that there is no point to switch to Danon (because this little delay can be everywhere).