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Possible rig -- Comments & suggestions needed! - Page 2

post #31 of 204
I have the 900 and i love it. The fans are quiet. I have them all on the lowest speed and they do a great job at moving air. My xbox360 and ps3 are louder than my pc.
post #32 of 204
Thread Starter 
Ok, RE: Quad-core CPU -- I think I'm either going to chicken out, or come to my senses... depending on which side you are on.

I read some of the messageboards last night of people with the TT-120 cooler and a few people had some really high idle temps, requiring them to take their motherboard out multiple times for adjustments! I know those might be isolated cases, but the fear that it either won't fit properly on the mobo and/or in the case -- or, more likely, I won't install it properly, gives me pause.

So now I'm thinking that my choice of the Quad CPU and wanting it at 3.2 might be too close to the eXtrEmE for me. As it's been discussed in other threads, the need for Quad over Duo is questionable, and the extra heat it generates (not to mention minor cost) makes me think I might be better 2-core candidate?

So maybe I should stick with the stock cooling and not attempt to push the CPU. Or if there's an aftermarket cooler that reasonable in size and install, I'm for that. I just want an easy install that goes right the first time without too many things to worry about.

Thanks for the suggestions and ideas so far guys!!! ...still need a firm decision on a motherboard.
post #33 of 204
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zupahwez0e View Post

My xbox360 and ps3 are louder than my pc.

Thanks for that ^^ comment! I'm targeting a PS3-level of noise from this rig.

What video card and CPU cooling do you have in your nine-hundred?
post #34 of 204
Arctic Silver instead of the cheap goop that comes with either the stock unit or the add-on units. One tube will last you several builds, the smallest tube they sell is like...3 or 4 bucks, and its plenty. You need a tiny, tiny amount.
post #35 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

Ok, RE: Quad-core CPU -- I think I'm either going to chicken out, or come to my senses... depending on which side you are on.

All the chips are expected to drop quite massively in price in a weeks time. The E6600 I just bought for $210 will likely be more like $120 pretty soon, I think if you jump over to firingsquad.com they have the review of the new chips coming out and show upcoming pricing.

Quote:


I read some of the messageboards last night of people with the TT-120 cooler and a few people had some really high idle temps, requiring them to take their motherboard out multiple times for adjustments! I know those might be isolated cases, but the fear that it either won't fit properly on the mobo and/or in the case -- or, more likely, I won't install it properly, gives me pause.

Here's my Quadcore 2 cents: Dual Core is already absurdly fast. No games out there now take advantage of more than 2 cores (well, Supreme Commander does I guess). Those that take advantage of more than 1 core can be counted on one hand. MHZ is still king for pushing framerates.

My goal was to buy the cheapest chip I could get with 4 megs of cache and overclock it nicely. When there are 2, 3, 4 games out that utilize quad cores (or more!), I will upgrade to one of those Quad chips. Pop mine out, pop the new one in. This is assuming, of course, that the performance of my MERE Dual Core is not up to snuff at the time.

Also, Quad cores run hotter....so you have to increase the cooling capacity of your case. What advantage do you get with the quad over the dual core system besides added heat? You get better processing speed on apps, but really not much on games. I really dont care if it takes 1/2 the time to encode a DVD on a quad versus a dual, when the dual core only takes 5 minutes to begin with...that kinda thing is what steered me to dual. Its like "Its faster, but faster than an already fast system".

Quote:


So now I'm thinking that my choice of the Quad CPU and wanting it at 3.2 might be too close to the eXtrEmE for me. As it's been discussed in other threads, the need for Quad over Duo is questionable, and the extra heat it generates (not to mention minor cost) makes me think I might be better 2-core candidate?

So maybe I should stick with the stock cooling and not attempt to push the CPU. Or if there's an aftermarket cooler that reasonable in size and install, I'm for that. I just want an easy install that goes right the first time without too many things to worry about.

Thanks for the suggestions and ideas so far guys!!! ...still need a firm decision on a motherboard.

Only you can decide what U really need!
post #36 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

Thanks for the reply krimson. Do you like the Antec case? If you had to do it over again, would you pick the nine-hundred or something else? Also, how quiet are all those fans???

Yep, love the case. The cooling system is great, perfect fan setup, and on low settings they don't really make much noise. My only complaint would maybe be the HDD cages, it can be a bit time consuming to take the cage out, screw in a drive, etc. But that complaint is largely because I switched over from a Sonata II which had the best harddrive cages ever made, imo (side loading with trays).

Quote:


Lastly, what mobo you have in there?

Gigabyte 965P-DS3 rev3, it's more of a budget overclocking board, no SLI, but supports the new 1333FSB chips so I have room to upgrade later on.
post #37 of 204
HeadRusch: do you remain happy with your MSI platinum mobo? Are you using the RAID controller? I'm interested in this board and would welcome simple raid 0 configuration. My last personal build (almost 2 years ago) I went with a DFI NF4 SLI board because it was blazing fast.. but I had to run a custom bios to get it to boot to windows, and I modify the RAID drivers myself to get it working. aka a PITA

Also a couple other things: Intel P35 boards that support DDR3 do not have SLI as far as I can tell, and from what I've been reading, aren't problem free either.. I would wait for second gen boards to come out before I made this step.

I think some of the most expensive 680i boards have 8 and 12 step voltage regulation! Pretty intense.
post #38 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by temeone View Post

HeadRusch: do you remain happy with your MSI platinum mobo?

So far, so good. But..its been 2 weeks so...

Quote:


Are you using the RAID controller?

Nope, RAID is not for me..my data isn't that important and the speed benefits of something like a RAID 0 array don't really interest me.

Quote:


I think some of the most expensive 680i boards have 8 and 12 step voltage regulation! Pretty intense.

..which to me is the same as having 2 or 4 Ethernet ports on the back. Question: Why?

I mean if you're running a game server on a LAN thats one thing...but how many people *do* that?
post #39 of 204
PS: on the cases, make sure you decide beforehand if you want a door or not.

I hate cases with Doors on them, they just get in the way (IMHO)......thats why the case I chose had no front doors or panels.

Something to keep in mind, you may *want* a door on yours.......does Thomas like to eject CD's and eat them?
post #40 of 204
Thread Starter 
So I now thinking I want the new Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 CPU. 1333 front-side bus should help a little, right?

Thoughts...? EDIT: I just read at AnandTech that the 1333FSB is better for quad but pretty useless for Duo.

I found this interesting about the simularly-priced quad 2.4 versus duo 3.0 at native clock rates:
If you're strictly building a gaming box, you'll get more performance out of the dual-core E6850. However, if you do any encoding or 3D rendering at all, the quad-core Q6600 is a better buy. Our pick is the Q6600 and if you want to make up the performance difference you can always overclock to E6850 speeds, but the chip only makes sense if you're running apps that can take advantage of four cores.
post #41 of 204
Wait till next year and get Sun's 16 core cpu then you can play all your favorite games at the same time while surfing, e-mailing, encoding, scanning and folding!
post #42 of 204
Dual Core, as to which one? Well we'll want to see how the new ones OVERCLOCK

Can't go wrong with an E6600, but if the 2.66Ghz one is only $20 or $30 more, I'd buy that....assuming of course these chips are as good of overclockers as their previous generation has been.
post #43 of 204
DaverJ : I am using stock cooling for my processor and vidcard. i have a 8800 GTS 640.
post #44 of 204
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zupahwez0e View Post

DaverJ : I am using stock cooling for my processor and vidcard. i have a 8800 GTS 640.


What CPU and what are you running at?
post #45 of 204
Its an E6300 running stock speeds. My motherboard doesn't have overclocking options :/ But hey i got the cpu, motherboard, and vista ultimate for 250 bucks so i can't complain too much. Looking at getting a new motherboard soon and the thermalright 120 heatsink. I can run most games i play now (bf2, c&c3, quake4, bf2142, ETQW, etc) with all options on at 1920 x 1200 just fine so i find myself spending my cash on HT stuff :P Its an expensive hobby.
post #46 of 204
I haven't seen bench marks for the new E6850, but I have for the E6750.

Here are the results.
E6750 @ 1333Mhz outperforms the E6700 and E6750 @ 1066Mhz by several FPS at low to middle resolutions.

E6750 @ 1333Mhz is on par with the Core 2 Extreme QX6800 and X6800.. sometimes its up a few FPS, sometimes down a few FPS.

I've seen the E6750 being clocked as high as 3.96GHz where it decimated everything at low and medium resolutions, even beating a new Extreme QX6850 at 3.83GHz. At higher resolutions (1600x1200) every Intel CPU is pretty much even regardless of clock speed.. within 5-10FPS on all current games (I'm talking new chips at almost 4GHz all the way down to the E6600).

So, it seems like the E6750 @ 1333MHz will be as good as or better than every Intel CPU before it. Also, based on the numbers I've seen on the QX6850, I have to think the E6850 is going to be biting at its heels.. literally.

I believe the E6750 is going to retail for $183, while the faster E6850 will retail at $266 (both rumors.. probably a little higher), making it a worthwhile upgrade IMO for a few extra FPS (whats $80?).. and an absolute steal compared to the core 2 extreme processors new and old.

Keep in mind this is with current games not optimized for dual/quad cores.. when these arrive, I expect the QX6850 to pull away.. however.. It will retail for over $1000!!!
post #47 of 204
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by temeone View Post

At higher resolutions (1600x1200) every Intel CPU is pretty much even regardless of clock speed.. within 5-10FPS on all current games (I'm talking new chips at almost 4GHz all the way down to the E6600).

^^^good info, thanks! Personally I'm most interested in running my games at 1920x1200 if at all possible.
post #48 of 204
Thread Starter 
I think I've finally decided on a motherboard: The MSI Platinum 650i SLI.

Picking out a motherboard turned out the be the hardest task of putting together a computer! In the end, I decided on the MSI because:

-solid capacitors (which I guess is good, but I have no idea why)
-favorable (but not glowing) reviews at Tom's Hardware and AnandTech
-Egghead's "1x Winner of Customer Choice Award - Intel Motherboards"

Because I don't plan on pushing the overclocking (if at all), I think this quote sold me on this mobo in the AnadTech review: "Typically, you have to sacrifice overclocking for superb stock or near stock performance or you have to sacrifice a few performance points at the base level in order to ensure the board will properly reach its limits at the top. MSI recently has offered excellent stock performance and stability while trading off the overclocking capability at the mid to upper end of the chipset's capability. "

If anyone knows of any "must-own" motherboards or anything I should seriously consider, please let me know. Otherwise, I think I'm going to close the book on this chapter, wait for that Intel CPU price drop and go on a buying spree!
post #49 of 204
Thread Starter 
Updated hard drive to a Seagate, based on suggestions in this thread... thanks again guys!
post #50 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

I think I've finally decided on a motherboard: The MSI Platinum 650i SLI.

GENIUS!

Quote:


-solid capacitors (which I guess is good, but I have no idea why)

A Capacitor's job is to hold energy.....sometimes to charge up and hand to your friends and watch them jump as they get electrocuted. Heh heh heh. Err..ok.

Non-solid capacitors have a tendency to wear out faster and pop, but they're cheap. Solid capacitors are much more durable, and are used as a selling point these days after a rash of bad motherboard problems from 2004, 2005, 2006 when MB manufacturers switched to cheaper capacitors.

Quote:


If anyone knows of any "must-own" motherboards or anything I should seriously consider, please let me know. Otherwise, I think I'm going to close the book on this chapter, wait for that Intel CPU price drop and go on a buying spree!

This MB seems to have most of the quality bases covered....there are MB's with more features, and with more bios options, but this one seems pretty solid for a reasonable price....a kind of "jack of all trades". Plus one of those sites got some very good O/Cing numbers out of this board.

These days I generally ignore Asus because they are too pricy, so its DFI or GIgabyte or now MSI for folks not wanting ot shell out $300 for a MB.
post #51 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

^^^good info, thanks! Personally I'm most interested in running my games at 1920x1200 if at all possible.


Head over to firingsquad.com. They have links on the front page to their latest E6750 and QX6850 benchmark tests, so you can see how close all the chips are on current non-optimized games (HL2, Quake4, etc)

Also, you may have seen this already.. but here is a great writeup about all the new and current Intel offerings compared to the top couple AMD chips. http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/int...oc.aspx?i=3038. Basically, it doesn't make sense to buy an old core 2 duo CPU. They also outline the new pricing, and based on how much you want to pay: sub $200 - E6750, AMD 6000+; ~$266 - E6850, Q6600; $500-600 - Q6700, FX-74; $1000 - QX6850, you can compare performance of the different core chips at those levels.

http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/int...oc.aspx?i=3038

Based on everything I'm seeing so far, I will be picking up an E6850 in a month or so. It should overclock like crazy (4GHz or damn close to it). Also, I'm not sure about the 650i chipset, but I know the 680i chipset will support the new Intel 45nm Penryn core coming out later this year with a bios flash.. so upgrading or Ocing for more performance should be easy.

edit: but hrm. I could OC the Q6600 to 3Ghz and have the best of both worlds??? oh no, I'm lost
post #52 of 204
I'm also planning on getting the MSI board, and the E6750. And I'll have to get memory too, 2 GB of DDR2 at least (I have 2 Gigs of DDR1 right now). That'll be entertaining.
post #53 of 204
Interesting....last night I ran the half life stress test on my 3.3Ghz E6600 and 8800GTX (overclocked).

With no AA and 8xaf I get 178fps. With 2xaa and 8xaf I get...177fps. Wow, 2xaa is free.
At 4xaa I get 158fps.

3DMARK 06 I'm getting 12,200. My 8800GTX is currently clocked past a stock Ultra speed (630 on the core and 980 on the ram, hmmm ok the ram is a TAD short).

I can't complain at all...nearly a 1ghz overclock, and a videocard that clocks very, very nicely.
post #54 of 204
Thread Starter 
^^ what resolution were you testing at?
post #55 of 204
Default, which is 1280x1024......for purposes of comparison thats what you use to bump up against reviews on the web that also use the default settings for the tool.

Hopefully this weekend I can actually install some GAMES on the thing

The problem is that 06 use CPU's in the equation as well....so you have to make sure if you are comparing results you're comparing against a dual core system, because a quad core system will bump that overall score up higher.

OH if you meant the HL test, that was 1920x1080, my monitors max rez
post #56 of 204
Thread Starter 
Someone suggested switching cases from the Antec 900 to the Antec P182.

The 900 is has more fans (noise?), but the P182 features:
-motherboard tray with wiring behind
-removable HD cage
-quieter?

Anyone have any experience or comments about the P182? There's a good review of it here at SilentPCreview.com
post #57 of 204
Better check if those cases are large enough to hold a full size 8800GTX board and whatever cooling choice you're going with.

120mm fans can be replaced with softer versions for a few dollars....well maybe $15 or so for really quiet fans.
post #58 of 204
large enough to accommodate a full sized 8800GTX and your Power supply are big concerns. We all know the GTX's are quite long, but some PSUs are huge as well and won't fit in some mid-tower ATX cases.. this might be a difficult thing to verify though.

I am a big fan of removable HD cage, and specifically, screwless HD cages.. you don't know what you're missing

Tucking away wiring is also a big plus, which is helped by a Mobo tray, or adequate room behind the mobo. The less wires in the case the more airflow you will get.. this will allow you to turn the fans down those few extra RPMs and help with noise. every bit counts!
post #59 of 204
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

Better check if those cases are large enough to hold a full size 8800GTX board and whatever cooling choice you're going with.

I'm hoping the silentPCreview.com review would have mentioned if the case has a space problem with longer video cards.

Rusch -- how long are the cables on your power supply? Do you think there would be a problem if your PS was located on the bottom of your case and the cables ran behind the mobo?

Maybe I'll just stick with the the 900... zupahwez0e states it's as quiet as a PS3, which is a good benchmark to aim for.
post #60 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

Someone suggested switching cases from the Antec 900 to the Antec P182.

The 900 is has more fans (noise?), but the P182 features:
-motherboard tray with wiring behind
-removable HD cage
-quieter?

Anyone have any experience or comments about the P182? There's a good review of it here at SilentPCreview.com

I just got a P182 yesterday from Amazon (free shipping,no tax). I'm putting a system together this weekend. Looks like a real nice case and from what I read it should be pretty quite. There is a nice video on Antecs site about it. Here is what I'll be putting in it.

P5K Deluxe
E6850
2 GB G.Skil DDR2 800
EVGA 8800 GTX
WD 320GB SE16 HD SATA along with my old 250GB SE16 HD SATA
ASUS CD/DVD SATA Burner
ASUS CD/DVD Standard SATA Drive
Corsair 620 P/S

Will try onboard sound for now and will stick with XP for now. Will start putting everything together tomorrow and hope it all works

Jim
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