"The" Onkyo TX-SR875 Thread - Page 147

Originally Posted by kplex

With optical from your Blu-ray player, the best you can do is either DTS or DD. You won't get any high bitrate audio. That's a tradeoff I wouldn't be willing to make.

Originally Posted by Hot Grits

I agree. I will be going HDMI directly to the receiver now that I know this. I like the PS3 but the whole blu tooth/harmony remote thing is making me lean toward the BD30. Then GTA4 for the ps3 is making me lean back the other way.

Originally Posted by kplex

I love my ps3. And I love bluetooth. I wish all equipment would switch to bluetooth rather than the ps3 switching to IR. Besides, even with a Harmony 880, I still have all the other remotes on the table.

Originally Posted by Hot Grits

Question for you experts
So I plan on finally getting a bluray player. I have narrowed my choices to a PS3 or a Panasonic BD30. My situation is this:

I had my TV profesionally calibrated. Since the settings on the 875 are global. I had the HDMI input on the TV that the 875 is using calibrated for dvds and cable. I had HDMI2 on the TV calibrated for a bluray player. So I plan on connecting the bluray player directly to the Tv via hdmi and optical from the bluray to the 875.

Being that I am connecting via optical to the 875, which player would you guys recommend? I searched alot of threads but most of the the audio talk around the 2 players revolve around an HDMI hook up, not optical.

One more question, would I be better off just going hdmi to the rcvr and live with the calibration I got for that?

Thanks in advance.

Originally Posted by Hot Grits

How do you like the upconversion of standard dvds?
In my never ending quest to waste as much money as possible in this hobby, I am thinking of getting an oppo for dvds. I originally bought a panasonic s53 cheap dvd player because it outputs 480I over hdmi and I let the 875 do the upconversion. To be honest, I am not too happy with the picture quality.

The Oppo hd980 (I think) also has the option to output 1080p or 480I over hdmi. I planned on trying both and seeing if the 875 or the oppo does a better job doing the scaling/deinterlacing. In theory, I guess the panasonic and the oppo both outputting 480I and the 875 doing the scaling should put out the same picture quality. I doubt this is true tho. But what else would I waste my money on if I didnt try?

Anyone else have an oppo980 that has tried outputting 480I and 1080p to the rcvr? If so, what did a better job?

Originally Posted by kplex

I don't think I've ever tried an SD DVD in my ps3. I use an Oppo 970.

Originally Posted by maxdb

THe best choice I see is...

www.monoprice.com sells an HDMI device with 1 input and 2 outputs (they call it a splitter, but it's really a distribution amp since it is powered and there's no signal loss), it runs about $75. Problem solved... connect the Blu-ray player to the 875 and get all the benefits of TrueHD and DTS-HD which you will NEVER HEAR if you use an optical connection.

You REALLY don't want a Blu-ray player that can handle the advanced audio format and an AVR that can handle the advanced audio formats, then use the optical connction which CANNOT support any advanced audio fomats (you will be limited to CD audio, old-style Dolby Digital, and old-style DTS only via the optical connection).

Originally Posted by Hot Grits

Can you set the 970 to output 480I over hdmi?

I'd suggest using one of the newer HDMI cables that are certified for HDMI 1.3a (may be called Category 2 or something like that). These newer cables are wider bandwidth and tend to have lower internal signal loss. Also, if you are using a longer cable length, you could try a shorter cable since long cables tend to increase signal losses.

I had though similarly about the HDMI cables. All cables are 6' in length and are supposed to be 1.3 compliant, however only one is specifically stamped 1.3 on the cable jacket. I tried using that one from the HDMI out on the 875, but it unfortunately made no difference. I tried three different brands of cables I had available. The only way I don't get the "searching for signals" message is when I go directly from the source device to the TV.

Originally Posted by xandra

Re: overly long hdmi handshaking issue:





I recently did some reading up on HDMI standards (or lack thereof)...
the most relevant tidbit: the only 'Feature' that really varies between cables is speed...
so you might try one last longshot find yourself a high-speed HDMI 1.3 cable.
As I said, this is a long shot, and likely the slowest item on the chain (in your case the Samsung TV) will likely remain a bottleneck - but hey, who knows.

Asides/Rants:
An HDMI 1.3a device doesn't necessarily have to support all possible 'features'.
The result: manufacturers deny all responsibility for compatability with anything.

2. IMHO: HDMI reminds me of SCSI voodoo but (MUCH worse)... with copy-protection the only guaranteed 'Feature/functionality'

The Upshot: consumers are now buying VERY expensive equipment with no guarantees that they'll function properly. Really pretty appalling if you think about it.

Originally Posted by AbMagFab

Speed? Do you really think that electrons are traveling faster (enough to notice) over different cables?

The *only* difference between HDMI cables is generally over longer runs, and they either work or don't work, or in some cases you'll get "sparklies" in the picture, which apparently are the equivalent of macroblocking for an HDMI signal.

It's worth trying a different cable though, as there might be some other issue with the cable causing problems he's not noticing.

Originally Posted by saxnix

Please correct me if I am wrong - it happens all the time. I think you will find a problem with the PS3 trying to communicate with 2 devices simultaneously. ... it would be good to hear from someone else that may have it currently working - possibly via the avr to 2 displays simultaneously?

Originally Posted by scsiraid

He is talking about edge speeds. Different diaelectrics and wire guages effect impedence and overall capacitance and ultimately the 'eye' that the receiver of the signal sees. If the eye is too small... the receiver cant extract the data and you end up with sparklies or nothing.

There is quite a bit of difference between cables at these frequencies.... BUT, if the resulting eye is OK for the receiver... then the user will not perceive any difference or care one way or the other. As you say... the longer the cable... the worse the effect. Short cables can cause problems too if the transmitter dials in too much preemphasis and the cable capacitance is low.

Originally Posted by AbMagFab

Right - but if he doesn't have a visual problem (bad or no picture), then it's unlikely this would only effect synching.

Originally Posted by Darin

Just so happens I ordered one of the Monoprice "splitters" a few days ago. Should be here today or tomorrow, but not sure how long it will take me to try it out. My intent is to be able to simultaneously take the signal coming out of my 875 and split it between the display in the den (main room where the 875 is) and simultaneously view the content on the display in the kitchen.

Not sure how correct this is, but I did read some posts that suggest that this splitter essentially duplicates the device data of the display that is connected to "output 1", so the input essentially does a handshake with the splitter, but the output device essentially thinks it's connecting to whatever is connected to output 1. The splitter does a separate handshake with the display connected to output 2. If this is all true, then it seems to me that the only downside is that the output device doesn't see the capabilities of the display connected to output 2, so it could potentially send a signal that the 2nd display can't handle. No problem for me... my main den display is a 1080i RPTV, and I assume the Samsung plasma can downscale that (the concern would be if I had a 1080p display in the den and tried to send that).

The other gotcha is the splitter is supposed to only be able to handle a 10m run. The cable I ordered to run to the kitchen is 35', and I'm stretching it at that (won't be any slack). That's technically a couple feet beyond it's spec. I'll have a pretty standard 2m cable from the receiver to the splitter, and another 2m from the splitter to the display. We'll see how it does.

Originally Posted by Hot Grits

I wouldnt be doing this though. I would be using one of the HDMI outs to the tv for video and one to the avr for audio. I dont think it will work.

Originally Posted by Darin

Ah, I see you're trying to split it to two different inputs to allow multiple video calibrations. Are you seeing that much of a difference in calibration needs between your various inputs? With just about everything being digital now, I wouldn't think the differences would be very much, with the exception of "problem" components that send impropper black levels, etc.

I've never had a professional calibration, I've always just done what I could with calibration discs, so everything gets set to the device that I play the disc in. I've never noticed any problems switching sources, but maybe I'm lucky with my components, or just don't have a good enough eye. But based on MY experience, I would trade in multiple calibrations for the ability to do HD audio without even blinking.

That being said, if what I've heard about the splitter is true, it may still work for you. If you set your 875 as output 1, and also have your 875 HDMI connected to your display, the PS3 should see the exact same thing as it would see if you had a more typical setup of just doing a/v over HDMI to the 875, then video out from the 875 via HDMI to the display. The second video 2 out from the splitter would go to your display. But that's all conjecture on my part.

Originally Posted by Hot Grits

So i would go hdmi from the ps3 into the splitter and 1 hdmi out into the rcvr and one into the tv. The hdmi into the TV would only be carrying video I assume then. This wouldnt cause any "confusion" between the components?

Originally Posted by AbMagFab

Speed? Do you really think that electrons are traveling faster (enough to notice) over different cables?

The *only* difference between HDMI cables is generally over longer runs, and they either work or don't work, or in some cases you'll get "sparklies" in the picture, which apparently are the equivalent of macroblocking for an HDMI signal.

It's worth trying a different cable though, as there might be some other issue with the cable causing problems he's not noticing.

Originally Posted by AdamWL

The more I think about this issue, the more it leans towards a fault within this particular 875.

1. 11-second Loss of signal with 875, no loss of signal with 705.
2. 11-second loss of signal with BOTH a Samsung HD TV and a Toshiba HD TV.
3. No loss of signal when connecting source player directly to TV's HDMI input.

Bob from Onkyo support agrees. He thinks I should go ahead and replace the 875. I'd just hate to foot the expense of shipping the unit back, just to receive a replacement that does the same thing. But what else can it be?

Originally Posted by Hot Grits

How do you like the upconversion of standard dvds?
In my never ending quest to waste as much money as possible in this hobby, I am thinking of getting an oppo for dvds. I originally bought a panasonic s53 cheap dvd player because it outputs 480I over hdmi and I let the 875 do the upconversion. To be honest, I am not too happy with the picture quality.

The Oppo hd980 (I think) also has the option to output 1080p or 480I over hdmi. I planned on trying both and seeing if the 875 or the oppo does a better job doing the scaling/deinterlacing. In theory, I guess the panasonic and the oppo both outputting 480I and the 875 doing the scaling should put out the same picture quality. I doubt this is true tho. But what else would I waste my money on if I didnt try?

Anyone else have an oppo980 that has tried outputting 480I and 1080p to the rcvr? If so, what did a better job?

Originally Posted by AbMagFab

That makes no sense. Both bitstream and LPCM still result in the 875 doing the DAC. When you send LPCM from the HD-A2, it's still all digital, it's just doing simple math to turn the TrueHD bitstream into the more generic LPCM (in the exact same way as the 875 would, no DACs involved).

The two should sound identical. If you hear a difference, it's likely just a placebo effect, or you had something else set differently (like matrixing on your AVR).

Originally Posted by AbMagFab

That makes no sense. Both bitstream and LPCM still result in the 875 doing the DAC. When you send LPCM from the HD-A2, it's still all digital, it's just doing simple math to turn the TrueHD bitstream into the more generic LPCM (in the exact same way as the 875 would, no DACs involved).

The two should sound identical. If you hear a difference, it's likely just a placebo effect, or you had something else set differently (like matrixing on your AVR).

Originally Posted by BobHD

As I'm sure the receiver settings were the same with and without bitstreaming, perhaps my experience was similar to that of Thomas Norton when he reviewed the Toshiba HDA35 and bitstreamed to an 875. He had the following comments about bitstreaming vs decoding by the player:

But do you gain anything? My first reaction was that the sound was actually bettercleaner and more full-bodiedwhen decoded from a bitstream by the receiver. Why should this be, you ask? I have no definitive answer, and in fact consider this only a first impression that may be demolished by further listening. And it may not even be repeatable on other receivers or pre-pros.

But if you can separate yourself from the concept that "bits are always bits," there are possible reasons. Take jitter, for example. If it's important (and you could start a fight by bringing up jitter in a room full of audiophiles), is a bitstream connection more or less likely than PCM to develop high levels of jitter, or is the difference non-existent and/or irrelevant?

Originally Posted by BobHD

As I'm sure the receiver settings were the same with and without bitstreaming, perhaps my experience was similar to that of Thomas Norton when he reviewed the Toshiba HDA35 and bitstreamed to an 875. He had the following comments about bitstreaming vs decoding by the player: