"The" Onkyo TX-SR875 Thread - Page 196

I have the option of purchasing a 3007 for the same price as you did
It would be replacing an 875.

I could probably sell the 875...which is still under the extended warranty...for about $200 less than I could buy the 3007 for

The streaming ( Pandora etc) is really not important to me. I have a blu ray player that does that...the individual Reon video adjustments( per input) is really not that important as I watch 95% HD material and set the Reon to "through" anyway

You say the clicking delay is an issue..or what I call about the same as the 875

Good sound is my prime target and I like the gutsy nature of the 875's amp section as well as the sound quality...by the way I paid $599 ( refurbished) for this 875 about 18 months ago

I am not sure how much the newer Audessey would add...this particular 875 is used in a square room that is about 12x15

Is it worth the $200-250 I would spend to get the 3007?


Warren

If you're staying with 7-channel and not looking at adding high or wide...it may be a downgrade. The amps in the 3007 are clean, and in my opinion plenty for your size room (assuming 89db 1w/1m or better speakers); however, they do not seem as powerful as the 875 (805). If your running independent subs, you may see some benefit, or very little if your setup is already well planned based on one sub out.

I went 9 channel with dsx wide and I'm adding an Emotiva 7 channel. And yes, the clicking still sucks, although it's a little better with FW.

Go for it. $200 is well worth addtional features 3007 has.

This is for a 5.1 channel set-up in a secondary room.I am running separates in my home theater with a Onkyo preamp( PRSC885) and Sherbourn 5/1500A 5 channel amp...and nothing is being changed there
I am not running 7.1, in the is secondary room, and have no intention of doing it. I am running Celestion book shelf speakers and they are fairly efficient and easy to drive. That being said I heard a fairly substantial difference when I upgraded from the Yamaha 6090( a very capable receiver) to the Onkyo 875 with these speakers

I am not sure the "high and wide" will add much to the fairly rectangular room it would be going on and good sound and a capable amp section are my primary concerns

two questions for you
1. You have an 805...are the amp sections the same in the 805 and 875. I know the ratings were different. The 875 seems to have the same rating as the 3007
2. You are using the 3007 as a preamp...were you using the 805 in the same way?...did you buy the 3007 with that intention or decided it needed more juice and did you look at just buying separates?
I paid about the same..as I recall for the PRSC 885 as I did for the 875. I think the PRSC885 is essentially a 905 without the amp section


Warren

I am looking at it from the standpoint of the price of my 875 was $600
$200 is over 30% of $600
is it worth a 30% difference?

You could buy a refurbed 906 for the price on the clearance 3007
My money would go with the 906

and by the way based on how many refurbs etc are out there with Onkyo I likely think you will be able to get one of these next year for $600

Seems the non 3D capable units are being cleared out


Warren

I would stick with the 875 in your case. I am not running an amp on my 3007 yet, it's on order. I am running 9 internal channels. The internal amps are clean, but not very strong at 9 channels (subjectively). I would have returned the 3007 already if I was going to run 7.1 or less. Dynamic eq is not enough to justify for me especially when I factor in the clicking and resetting the hdmi stream on signal changes way to often. Dolby volume I do not like much, and comparing dynamic eq to the 805 at medium volume, I just don't see that much benefit.

I may just return the 3007 anyway and wait for a 4311.

I have pretty much decided the 3007 wasn't worth the extra $200-250 I was going to have to pay..over the sale of the 875

By 4311 do you mean the denon?....if so its already out I think
if that is what you mean..other than 3D..if its like the 4310 and you want a capable amp section you might be wanting more with that unit
I did see that the Denon 4310 has been marked down remarkably at MHT as well


Warren

Yes, Denon 4311, and I meant wait for a good deal on one
I would run the denon with the UPA-7 amp I just ordered . I think the 4311 would do fine running just 4 speakers SL/R an SBL/R.

Gotcha
Makes sense to me as I heard the Denons are more musical than the Onkyos...though I have heard the Onkyo's have better amp sections
And yes..that Denon 4311 is likely at full retail
I actually bought my 875 sight unheard...I figured for $599 with its feature set it had to be a good buy....and frankly it was a great buy for that $$



Warren

Go visit the 4311 thread if you are really looking for one. Also, they can be found for considerably less than full retail from several reputable authorized sources. As for the 4310, they have had a lot network card issues where the card goes bad and must be replaced. Unless Denon comes out with a revised network card that cures the problem, I would tend to stay away from them even if they are discounted more than the usual amounts. But even if they get fixed, I would still take the 4311 over a 4310 just for the superior version of Audyssey that the 4311 has.

I hadn't heard that
What I have heard about the 4310 was that it was a let down..amp wise from the 4308..and frankly it was more like a 3808 with a few more features.
Perhaps the 4311 is just a 4310 with a few more updates and features?

I was told if I liked the "beefiness" of the 4308 and wanted the advanced features...without giving up the amp section...I needed to look at the 4810

I have seen the 4310 being far more discounted than the 4308 ever was
4310 is 50% off retail at my local MHT


Warren

The 4810 and the 4310, as well as the 3310. All pretty much have the network card issues, with the network card failing.

4810
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post19308044

4310
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post19360835

3310
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...161781&page=82

One theory is, that some of the network cards do not have enough memory on them, and that they more or less take their fatal dive after a firmware update. But so far that has no 100% official confirmation as to being the actual problem, it's only been what a certain service center has said to one person who had his replaced by them.


As for the 4310 VS 4311, yes I would say the 4311 is the direct replacement for the 4310.

But I would still buy a 4311 that's sold at a reasonable discount, over a 4310 sold at a bigger discount. Besides the new features and the much better version of Audyssey the 4311 has over the 4310, the 4311 also has a longer 3 year warranty VS the 4310's 2 years. The new 2311 and 3311 also come with the longer 3 year warranty.


http://usa.denon.com/DocumentMaster/...NEW-July10.pdf

No guys, i have to disagree. The 4311 is a beast compared to the 4310. It has full 11.2 capability, 9 internal amps and Audyssey XT32 with dual sub calibration. It is the follow-on to the 4810 but with hdmi 1.4a and a less flexible amp assign function and perhaps slightly less power.

No, the 4311 is the direct replacement for the now discontinued 4310, and yes it has very noticeable added benefits and features over the 4310. But even with that, the 4311 is also is not a replacement for the 4810. Although I have a hunch that Denon at some later time will probably come out with a replacement for the 4810 as well, as I just don't see them standing pat for a whole lot longer with the current 4810 at the MSRP $3k level of AVR's. Even though the limited edition A100 MSRP's at $2.5k, it really is nothing more than a just gussied up 4311. And it is also not a replacement for the 4810.

I would tend to disagree with this
The 4810 seems a lot closer ...beefiness and amp wise...to the 4308 than either 4310 or 4311
The 4310 and 4311...updated features non with standing...seem a lot closer to the 3808 in that regard

I do agree with the earlier poster about that 3K retail on the 4810...for some reason they seem to keep that one inflated while clearly offereing huge incentives on the 4310...so much so that everyone has them for 50% off retail now
Perhaps its because the 4810 replacement has not bowed yet


Warren

The 4810 is probably a low volume model, so no need or urge to have it pushed out of the door as long as its successor is not visible on the horizon.

agreed
The higher up models on the Denon spectrum stay around longer..case in point the 5308..its been around a few years now
Of course at the pricing..the 5308...I wonder why a buyer would not do separates
Understood that you can't do Denon separates at the 5308 price..but still I think there is something out there for $5500 that would beat the 5308...separates wise


Warren

The real reason the 4310 is now discounted so much is simple, it's a discontinued model and they want to unload them ASAP. It's not at all uncommon in the industry for discontinued models to be sold at heavy discount.

Some a lot more than the others. The Denons sell for much closer to their retail price than the onkyos do....so it stands to reason that when they "blow them out" the prices fro them would be lower as well



Warren

It always depends, how much of the "old" stuff is resting in the warehouses, when the next generation model is at the horizon. Thus volume models will - probably - be more heavily discounted, as long as supply last.
The manufacturers want the shelves cleared, so the dealership can (and will) absorb the new models as fast as possible to get the new business going.

You should find a better place to shop for Denon, if you can't find one at a good discount. The percentage amount of possible discount for all the Asian brands of A/V gear, are all pretty much about the same.

Then it must just be that the retailer knows a potential buyer is willing to pay more for Denon products I guess
I have seen dealers that carry all three...Onkyo, Pioneer Elite and Denon
Every time the Denon ..for the competing product segment at the same store ..is more expensive
On nationwide scale MHT is a perfect example of this....find one that has a Pioneer Elite SC25, an Onkyo 3007 and a Denon 4310 and check the differences in current clearance pricing of all three....well actually you could have checked a year ago at the regular prices and the spread was still the same


Warren

Quit flip flopping around in order to try and make yourself look right. You pretty much specifically stated that Denon tends to only be sold for full MSRP or very close to it, while other brands are not, and that is BS! So when you are talking about if current model of a brand is discounted or not, then clearance pricing on old discontinued models means nothing, and pricing in relation to new models in another brand also means nothing. All the Asian brands can usually be found for around a 20%-25% discount without too much effort from authorized dealers. And unless you are doing a price match, MHT is one of the worst places you can use to judge how much something may or may not be discounted. MHT rarely gives a really good initial price quote, unless they are trying to beat the price of a competitor.

Oh really.."pretty much specifically "...well other than that being an oxymoron

But anyway

I must really be flip flopping to see the prices that prove my point
Such as these
http://search.vanns.com/sitesearch/s...q=pioneer+sc35
Pioneer $1599
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it..._c=site_search
Onkyo $1499.00

http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it..._c=site_search

Denon $1995

All from the same retailer who has all three in stock
Use any authorized vendor you like that carries all three
Amazon works as well..and proves my point

Go new or used (with the comparable past models) and check the "completed listings" on Ebay

Again..proves my point. It may mean "nothing" to you....but its the case...compare a Pioneer SC25, Denon 4310 and a Onkyo 3007 price wise currently
It was the same way when they were all new current models
So what flip flopping am I doing pray tell?

Please prove me links to prove your point...
for instance forward me the link where a Denon 4311 is 20-25% off retail from an authorized dealer( discounted as much as the competing models from MSRP)?

I can find the Pioneer and Onkyo for those type of discounts all day long.....substantially more as matter of fact
Check out Newegg..42% off retail on the Onkyo upper end xx08 products....and they run that deal again and again throughout the year and have for the past several years.....check the history in the Onkyo forums with what members paid( as well as myself).This coincides with the brands that I mentioned above that were more heavily discounted as a rule
That is what I "pretty much specifically" said.


Warren

Cut your BS, it gets tiring! When proven misinformed, incorrect or wrong, you constantly try to change or manipulate things around, in order to try and look right.



No links! Linking to discounted pricing on this forum, IS against forum rules!

Gee how about calling some dealers? You probably will NOT see any authorized dealer showing a 4311 for less than MSRP on their website, even though they will indeed sell it for less! In case you did not know, Denon enforces their dealer agreements rather strictly about not advertising online for less than MSRP, but the dealers most certainly are allowed to sell for less than MSRP. Sometimes they may even get around it online by doing it with a secret discount code that you must apply, where the discounted price only shows up in the shopping cart, but a simple phone call will more often than not easily get you a nice price of usually 20%-25% off. Just go to the 4311 thread, and you will see references to enough dealers to call or that have discount codes and such as to these kind of discounts.

Also...

Integra is also another brand where they enforce dealer agreements so you usually will not see Integra advertised online from a authorized for less than MSRP. Integra pretty much really does not even want any sales done online at all through a shopping cart. However Onkyo is lax about online sales & prices, as is Pioneer for their non-Elite models. This kind of information about Dealer agreements with the manufactures and their enforcement of advertised prices has been widely know about for a long time, and if you did not know this, you must have been living under a rock.

Specifically you said.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=5859

Clearly you misunderstood
I never said "pretty much specifically"...again an oxymoron
Do you want me to go through the reason why they mean two different things in the context?

Warren

Clearly you don't understand me...and I don't clearly understand how I am "pretty much specifically" manipulating anything
And ..please enlighten me...when did you prove me wrong?

As for calling dealers...would I be accurate in thinking that you didn't think I had already done that?
If that is indeed the case I cannot imagine how you came to that conclusion.
Been there done that recently as a matter of fact...and back when I was shopping for the 875 as well. I was looking at a 4308 and SC 07 , both seriously at one time.Ended up buying the 07 because of the massive discount
That , pricing structure at the time, was the same similar pricing structure as it is now
This discovery( and my most recent pricing comparison) was the basis of my statement about price discounting among brands and the differences there in.
And yes..I am well aware of brand's price structuring as well as prohibiting of online and/or mail order sales of current models .Levision, Classe,McIntosh , Rotel, Sherbourn,Sunfire,Anthem to name a few, all do this.
Some dealers can e-mail you a quote...such as the one I requested for the then new Onkyo PRO PR-SC 5507 preamp.I could have purchased it and had it shipped to me. Some brands won't even allow that unless there is verification that there is not a dealer within a reasonable radius of where you are located. Been there done that with Sherbourn
As for Integra..my local dealer..http://www.genesisaudio.com/html/frameset-genesis.htm is discounting Integra....but not Denon
Call them if you like and verify that is the case.

But clearly..you have some insight I do not...you mentioned the discounts are the same across all asian brands..as well as the retailer margins across the sector

Send me a PM with your insight if you will....not that I care about the retail markup...though it might be of some anecdotal interest at best.
But..I am REAL interested in where I can buy a 4311 for 20%-25% off retail from an authorized dealer
Enlighten me ..since you seem to hold the answers to all of this...and if you would be so kind as to "pretty much specifically" tell me how I am manipulating anything. The facts are the facts.


Warren

No, what I said was, that they were pretty much the same, I never said that they were exactly the same!



I am not going to PM you any such thing, I already told you were to look for insight into pricing on the 4311 to get that sort of discount. Also I never said that 20%-25% was the maximum amount you may find on Denon, I have done better than that. And have done so with other brands as well!



Wrong your opinions are just that, opinions, they are not facts!


So, what. I never said Integra dealers will not discount, many will in fact. The only thing I said about Integra was..




And with this, I am done playing your silly little games where you constantly try change things around and to bring in other things, such as ebay sales. Which with almost all major brands, is not even remotely a authorized sale of the product if it's sold through ebay. And just to make it clear, yes some people on ebay may be a authorized vendor of the product brand, but many brands also do not support a valid warranty on their products if it was sold through ebay.

Wow

all of that and nothing to prove anything you said..about all this insight in the electronics marketplace
That "pretty much specifically" sums up the merit of that..I guess

It also appears that you are having trouble understanding my point about the ebay sales and their relation to the new transaction prices.....
Again..."pretty much specifically"..what I thought

Your words...that I had to read 3 times to try to comprehend due to your wording

"And with this, I am done playing your silly little games where you constantly try change things around and to bring in other things, such as ebay sales. Which with almost all major brands, is not even remotely a authorized sale of the product if it's sold through ebay. And just to make it clear, yes some people on ebay may be a authorized vendor of the product brand, but many brands also do not support a valid warranty on their products if it was sold through ebay."

I never said anything about buying a NEW product on ebay....you didn't comprehend what I wrote.
These were used equipment sales in comparison to where the actual transaction prices were...or to spell it out more clearly...an 4308 brings more than an 875 on ebay on average...and I am speaking preowned equipment in the same condition.
I would say that was very self explanatory in my posting regarding ebay pricing


But anyway

thanks for the vast verifiable insight on the consumer electronics industry



Warren