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Miami Vice Looks terrible!!

post #1 of 54
7/22/07 at 9:38am
Thread Starter 
So I got my HD-A20 toshiba going after replacing my HDMI cable and it finally displays 1080p. I didnt have any HD DVD's yet so I threw in some older ones and maybe its my imagination but they looed better then ever!

I went out to buy a HDDVD and had to buy something I had not seen yet, so I settled on Miami Vice due to Best Buys limited selection. It looked terrible. The dark scenes were grainy and it was subtle, but the screen seemed to pulse from light to dark very slowly. I tried adjusting everything to no avail. Now there were some scenes that looked good, and the splash screen for the DVD and the screen saver when paused looked great, but I am so far very disappointed with my purchase.

Someone please tell me they have the same problem with Miami Vice, or at least tell me I am a moron and have something wrong!
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post #2 of 54
7/22/07 at 9:40am
I believe this was the director's intention to add the grain for a gritty feel. I think some of these purposely gritted up movies are not the best movies for showcasing HD. I still found the movie entertaining though.
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post #3 of 54
7/22/07 at 9:44am
Yah, Miami Vice is either just a bad transfer or intentionally grainy.
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post #4 of 54
7/22/07 at 9:44am
No this isn't director grain, what I have discovered on HD-DVD & Blu-Ray that some movies every once has this weird white pulse during dark scenes. I had this with Deja Vu & Beerfest, both were fixed when I returned my copy to Best Buy for replacements.

The replacement copies did not have the problem, so I recommend you take it back as a defective disc and get it replaced.
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post #5 of 54
7/22/07 at 9:45am
I can hardly wait till 'Saving Private Ryan' comes to HD so that people can start complaining how terrible it looks: grainy with poor/muted colors.

Sanjay
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post #6 of 54
7/22/07 at 10:11am
Miami Vice has been discussed for it's noise in hundreds of threads here. I saw it in a digital theater in the theaters and it was the same. Michael Maan used some new digital cameras that have the unique ability to shoot in very low light and still pick up a lot of detail, a side effect is lots of noise (not grain, grain is on regular film). It is intentional. You notice more and more movies using these cameras in dark scenes, some directors really like being able to shoot with very little light for the first time. It's a testament to the VC-1 codec that it was able to preserve the fine noise.

I am constantly shaking my head by how many people see grain or noise and somehow think it must be a bad transfer. They think "HD" means it must look crisp and sharp and super clean, like an HD broadcast. No. "HD" means preserving the film more closely to what the director intended, which is often quite the opposite.

But as for the pulsing, that's not normal. My miami vice didn't do anything like that. You need to try watching through component and see if it still does it.

300 had tons of intentional noise in the theater too. But you only noticed if you sat pretty close to the screen. I can't wait till next week when we get 40 threads about how it looks like crap...
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post #7 of 54
7/22/07 at 10:13am
Miami Vice bad pq?? Man it is outstanding!! tier 2, easy!. Maybe you don't like the use of filtering by Mann???
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post #8 of 54
7/22/07 at 10:15am
I think it's a beautiful HD DVD...it's what the director intended and apparently exactly what it looked like in theaters. The Spanish import (theatrical version) looks the same.

Since it's a combo disc, flip it to the DVD side if you need to see how much of an improvement the HD DVD is. I think you'll be surprised (at first glance, yes, it's not a very good looking disc).
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post #9 of 54
7/22/07 at 10:22am
Thread Starter 
Ok, so what some of you are saying is that grainy is good? Why bother with HD DVD if they are going to make it look like that on purpose?

So, what DVD do you guys recommend for "showcasing HD DVD"?

I assume Planet earth is a given.
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post #10 of 54
7/22/07 at 10:38am
King Kong will show off HD DVD to your friends and family.
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post #11 of 54
7/22/07 at 10:39am
This topic belongs in the HD-DVD software forum.

And there are other threads on the subject like this one:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=miami+vice
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post #12 of 54
7/22/07 at 10:44am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snickering Hound View Post

This topic belongs in the HD-DVD software forum.

And there are other threads on the subject like this one:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=miami+vice

It does now, when I made it I thought I possibly had a hardware/set up issue. Thanks......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Spackman View Post

King Kong will show off HD DVD to your friends and family.

At this point I'm trying to justify it to myself. ($$$$$$$) I have yet to be wow'd. What are the odds I would pick a movie that the director intended to look like crap for my first disc.
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post #13 of 54
7/22/07 at 10:59am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrustbucket View Post

I am constantly shaking my head by how many people see grain or noise and somehow think it must be a bad transfer. They think "HD" means it must look crisp and sharp and super clean, like an HD broadcast. No. "HD" means preserving the film more closely to what the director intended, which is often quite the opposite.

I have NEVER heard HD been marketed that way. If so I never would have invested the money. The whole point is "six times the clarity of DVD's" blah blah blah. I want every scene to look as good as it can. When you add in intentional grain and what not, it looks worse then the original DVD version, which I just flipped over and watched.

Oh well, I guess you have to be a film connoisseur to appreciate that type of stuff. Me, I don't like spending thousands of dollars just so I can look at a grainy picture. But I'm sure I am jumping the gun, maybe I just need to spend a little bit more money and find some other DVD's.............maybe.

Alright, I'll quit being a whiny newb now. Thanks for everyones help/opinions.
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post #14 of 54
7/22/07 at 11:01am
I already told you, the white pulsing grain on dark scenes is not director grain. It's a defective disc. Return it and get another copy and it will be gone..
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post #15 of 54
7/22/07 at 11:02am
This is easily 1 of the top posted threads next to BD outsells this and Toshiba has 1000 % marketshare in standalones......chalk this thread up to more wasted bandwidth.
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post #16 of 54
7/22/07 at 11:41am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolrad View Post

I already told you, the white pulsing grain on dark scenes is not director grain. It's a defective disc. Return it and get another copy and it will be gone..

On my way, meant to say that earlier. Thanks for the help.
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post #17 of 54
7/22/07 at 11:44am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by deez View Post

This is easily 1 of the top posted threads next to BD outsells this and Toshiba has 1000 % marketshare in standalones......chalk this thread up to more wasted bandwidth.

Your right, someone posting for HD help on a HD website.......what was I thinking.
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post #18 of 54
7/22/07 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

I can hardly wait till 'Saving Private Ryan' comes to HD so that people can start complaining how terrible it looks: grainy with poor/muted colors.

Sanjay

LOL, knowing that all of that was intentional, I CANNOT wait to see it
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post #19 of 54
7/22/07 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadams View Post

Your right, someone posting for HD help on a HD website.......what was I thinking.


The search button is your friend. Why have 20 threads on this?
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post #20 of 54
7/22/07 at 12:05pm
I was all prepared to hate how Miami Vice looked when I finally watched it recently. I thought it looked incredible, great movie too. I always knew it was filmed on high-def video and I know how that looks in low light so I wasn't surprised. It gives it a "you are there" type of feeling and the big rescue scene at the trailer benefited from that. It was intense!
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post #21 of 54
7/22/07 at 12:11pm
Shadams, the reason everyone is being so hard on you is because the easiest way to get on everyone's bad side here is by posting a thread that has been covered exhaustively in great detail with hundreds (sometimes thousands) of posts numerous times. The controversy with Miami Vice is one of those topics, and your low post count coupled with the fact that you obviously didn't try searching for the topic makes you an ideal candidate for criticism on here. Don't take it personally, just learn from this and you'll be fine.
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post #22 of 54
7/22/07 at 12:15pm
It looks the way that it looked when i saw it in theaters. This makes it a good transfer in my books.
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post #23 of 54
7/22/07 at 12:18pm
This is a great looking disc, if you want blame the director for his artistic license, but the transfer is just about perfect.
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post #24 of 54
7/22/07 at 2:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrustbucket View Post

Miami Vice has been discussed for it's noise in hundreds of threads here. I saw it in a digital theater in the theaters and it was the same. Michael Maan used some new digital cameras that have the unique ability to shoot in very low light and still pick up a lot of detail, a side effect is lots of noise (not grain, grain is on regular film). It is intentional. You notice more and more movies using these cameras in dark scenes, some directors really like being able to shoot with very little light for the first time. It's a testament to the VC-1 codec that it was able to preserve the fine noise.

I am constantly shaking my head by how many people see grain or noise and somehow think it must be a bad transfer. They think "HD" means it must look crisp and sharp and super clean, like an HD broadcast. No. "HD" means preserving the film more closely to what the director intended, which is often quite the opposite.

But as for the pulsing, that's not normal. My miami vice didn't do anything like that. You need to try watching through component and see if it still does it.

300 had tons of intentional noise in the theater too. But you only noticed if you sat pretty close to the screen. I can't wait till next week when we get 40 threads about how it looks like crap...


I could not agree with you more than I am about the current subject and how people will go about saying the transfer looks bad due to the intentional grain and noise "which add realism to the transfer by the way" some movie has. I have Miami Vice and to me it looks true to the way I saw at the theater.
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post #25 of 54
7/22/07 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadams View Post

I have NEVER heard HD been marketed that way. If so I never would have invested the money. The whole point is "six times the clarity of DVD's" blah blah blah. I want every scene to look as good as it can. When you add in intentional grain and what not, it looks worse then the original DVD version, which I just flipped over and watched.

Oh well, I guess you have to be a film connoisseur to appreciate that type of stuff. Me, I don't like spending thousands of dollars just so I can look at a grainy picture. But I'm sure I am jumping the gun, maybe I just need to spend a little bit more money and find some other DVD's.............maybe.

Alright, I'll quit being a whiny newb now. Thanks for everyones help/opinions.

Hehe. This is kind of cute. Your pictures on regular DVD have been so bad that you would never have noticed things like you are complaining about. Now that the picture is so clear that you see every minute detail and intentional flaw you so you complain.

I think you misunderstood "six times the clarity" does not mean six times the edge enhancement or six times remastering the picture. It means six times closer to the picture that was showed in the theater.

I explained why Miami Vice dark scenes have noise (the snowy look). Take your digital camera out and take some pictures, without the flash, with very long exposure, in near dark and you will notice nearly the same thing. I think it looks cool. And you can notice by the other shots in the film during the day and bright light just how clear those new digital cameras can be in fully lighted environments.

I suggest you stick with video-sourced material like planet earth or the discovery atlas series, or any TV shows in HD if you want to be blown away by crystal clear, clean, glossy,shiny, artificially sharpened pictures. In the realm of film and movies, however, many times you are going to get some artistic choices you obviously hate.
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post #26 of 54
7/22/07 at 5:11pm
People are going to say 300 looks bad for the same reason....
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post #27 of 54
7/22/07 at 7:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post

People are going to say 300 looks bad for the same reason....

And Transformers.
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post #28 of 54
7/22/07 at 7:29pm
I thought Miami Vice looked awesome on HD DVD! Then again, I'm not one who bitches and whines about intentional grain being on a movie.......Not every movie will have the exact same visual style.
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post #29 of 54
7/22/07 at 7:44pm
Miami Vice looked pretty good, not the best HD-DVD but looked good, the grain is suppose to be there. check out the trailers too.
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post #30 of 54
7/22/07 at 8:06pm
Thread Starter 
Alright, I'm going to ask some serious questions:

1. Is there anyone here that knows the director of this movie and has asked him if this was intentional, or are you guys just making this up because everyone that isn't in the know complains so it must be "artistic creativity"?

2. I am being serious here, but are theatres really the best place to get a baseline from. I mean is the theatre the be all to end all, and everything else is striving to recreate the picture a theater displays, or is it possible that a high end TV displays a better picture than a projector across a screen 100ft away? How do you not know that the theatre you went to to see the movie had a crappy projector, and since you see it at home and it is crappy, you again assume it is supposed to be that way.

I have conceded that Miami Vice doesn't look like and isn't "supposed" to look like Planet Earth. I still don't understand why they wouldn't want it to but thats a debate that will never end I have come to realize. I am just curious as to how all of you know so much about what the director meant to do.

Lastly, It isn't the end of the world that I made a thread without checking to see if there was already one up. It can be as simple as someone saying "theres already a thread, provide a link for me to click on, leave it up a few hours, than dump the thread. I do it daily myself as I am a mod at another forum, albeit not one this large. In my wildest dreams I cant imagine there being a forum with this many people on here that have HD DVD players and have seen Miami Vice and had the same concerns I had, I realize I live under a rock as far as that is concerned. Lets all hold hands now.
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