'Mad Men' on AMC HD - Page 55

So here I am reading this thread after having discovered and watched the entire show over the past few weeks. It's gotten quite a hold on me. The social changes are fascinating. In the 1960 episodes, ALL the men dressed in suits. You can see that breaking down with the younger guys in 1966. Peggy is breaking so many traditional behavior patterns, and it's interesting to contrast her with Betty. I think about the Leave to Beaver home Don and Betty had at the beginning, and compare it with the 60s mod apartment Don and Megan have. Megan captures that mid 60s look perfectly. I hope 1968 is covered extensively--what a dramatic year that was!

I really liked this episode because it seemed to really get at the essence of each of the characters. Roger is just out for himself, first using Ginsberg's idea at dinner and then coming onto Jane in her new apartment. Peggy again shower her lack of self-esteem by being annoyed that Roger didn't go to her for the wine ideas. Betty? Enough has been said about her destructive ways. (I did find it interesting that she and Henry had a nice moment at midnight.) Megan just wants peace. Her handling of the Sally / Anna situation with both Sally and Don was excellent. And, finally, Don's decision on the Sno Ball ad was very interesting. I can't tell if he really felt his idea was better or he wanted to just see if he "still had it."

Professional life choices yes, personal no. I'd venture to say Don would make a lot of different choice about his personal life, if given the chance.

I still think the main plot of this show should be about the advertising business. Whenever it drifts too far away from that, it becomes a soap opera set in the 60's -- who's sleeping with who, who's cheating on who, who knows about it, who got drunk and said something convenient for the plot, etc.

One issue I have with many television shows is that if a character isn't a cop then their jobs are almost always an afterthought in the show. I'm sure the networks passed over Mad Men because they knew no one would care about characters in advertising. They'd rather have a show full of pot dealers, mob wives, Russian spies, ax murderers, witches, sexy compliant robots, or alien pod people. In real life most of us spend a lot of time working, getting laid off, finding new jobs, moving to new cities for employment and so on. The most interesting people to me are the people who love their jobs and before this season, Don Draper was one of those people.

About the Betty storyline. I didn't care much for her at all until I checked out other Mad Men boards, ones that unlike this one have women on them. Many women who lived through that period have said how much they relate to the women on this show, even Betty. They've told stories that shocked my post 60's sensibility. Men pretty much went through the period unchanged. Most did come to realize that women are capable of doing what was "men's work" but that's about it.

I sure hope those women posters aren’t taking a “Poor little Betty. Everything bad that has ever happened to her is all the fault of the men in her life” attitude. She’s just as responsible for her choices as Don is, and NOTHING justifies her vicious maneuver regarding Sally and Anna.

I guess I don't see how she is at fault for Don cheating on her numerous times.

(No, I'm not a woman.)

I agree on her treatment of Sally.

I already shared some of my personal stories of my mother. Now if Sally gets pregnant at 15 (like my older sister), Bobby gets juvinile schizophrenia at about the same age (like my brother) and Betty develops a strong case of narcisistic personality disorder, it would mirror my family to a T. (I'm "Eugene" - the youngest.)

Is Don responsible for her post-marriage unhappiness? Is he responsible for her Ice Queen attitude towards her children? Was her Anna maneuver justified?

No.

You said "everything".

I see your point. When I said Don isn't responsible for everything, I wasn't implying he's not responsible for some things. I doubt Betty would have been all that happy even if Don had been faithful. He gave a LOT of time to work.

I agree, but I think a lot of women watching the show would feel for her somewhat (regardless of how otherwise nasty she can be) because of her being cheated on.

Well that, and she's horribly written because it appears nobody knows what to do with her. Every once and a while they just toss a scene her way that doesn't really have much to do with anything else happening in the show. It's like if you were watching Charlie's Angels, and every couple of episodes they followed a side story with Bosley about going to get lunch or getting his suits dry cleaned.

Between the writing and Jone's terrible acting, she's a boat anchor on the show. I'm not saying that they shouldn't include the housewife experience as part of the exploration of life in the 60s. What I am saying is that they shouldn't continue to do it with Betty.

In one episode, Rory Gilmore did more to capture the essence of a woman who is trapped as a housewife, than the Betty character has done in the past two seasons. I'd much rather see more of her. The single scene of her drawing the heart on the window, and then erasing it, was more powerful than anything Betty has done on screen since shooting at the pigeons.

Betty is so thoroughly unlikable that it's hard to have any sympathy for her. Don is flawed, but he does exhibit a warmth that she lacks. He also shows no interest in hurting Betty or Henry.

No, American mid-20th century culture is, to some degree (to exactly what degree is the question posed by the show, and the whole point of the character).

The challenge is to become what you want to be, not simply what you were raised as. Peggy and Don seem to be doing it, but Betty would rather be the Princess.

And how many of us rise to that challenge, even now? Barriers to women are still high; 50 years ago they were not just immense, but often the reward for surmounting them was scorn and ostracism.

By definition, most people are unexceptional. But there's a certain specialness that can be achieved by dealing gracefully with that reality. Or you can find it in sinking to the wrong end of the bell curve. Betty is a study in the struggle between settling for normalcy vs falling into the kind of self-centeredness that leaves one alone and crazy. There's still a lot that can be done with this character. Not to mention that the much more potentially interesting arc that Sally could travel over the next few years needs Betty to launch it.

Betty's challenge is not to be a doctor or lawyer, etc. (I very much doubt she has an interest in having a professional career), but to have an outlook on life that doesn't make her miserable, and wanting others to share that misery ("how DARE Don be happy while I'm not! Even if it causes my daughter pain, I'll cause him misery!"). I don't know that a person needs to be all that exceptional to deal gracefully with reality.

Man Men gets real Adventurous and Thrilling...

Roger's shirt- crazy.

Don, "buying" the Jaguar, drinks with Joan and that Office Christmas speech - risky.

Lane, dealing with the taxman, forgery and stealing - outrageous.

Megan's taste in plays and attempts at being a housewife - unsettling.

A bald Hare Krishna Paul and Harry's affair- surreal (or priceless).

Even Pete takes his chances with Lane and Jaguar after being beaten twice.

Lane is going to kill himself; you heard it here first. Not a spoiler, just a prediction. Great episode tonight.

I'm sure somewhere, some Trekkie(s) are having heart (or whatever) palpitations about the references to Star Trek in tonight's episode (you know, script submittal, NBC, Gene Roddenberry, etc.).

Has it been explained why Lane is stretched so thin? I realize he's a junior partner, but it seems odd that in the same episode where he's defrauding the company for $8k to pay back taxes in the UK, Don's ready to drop $6k for a new Jag on a whim. Pete doesn't seem hard up for cash, and he just bought a new house in the burbs. Granted, I do recall that Don paid his partnership contribution. Did Lane have to borrow to cover his?

Having said that, this was easily my favorite episode of the season, since we got a lot of classic Don--first with Joan, then with Megan, then calling the staff to arms for Jaguar.

Don Draper is back!!!!

I assume that's due to keeping his wife living in the style she expects and having a son in boarding school.

No, Pete is going to kill himself. Remember four episodes ago?

Oh never mind, he's all happy now. Love the consistent writing this season.

We need more women like Joan and Megan smashing things. Back in the 60's it was perfectly acceptable for women to smash things when they were mad. I guess things were cheaper back then.

Since Lane is still a British citizen in the late 60's, he's paying 90% taxes on his income while the other partners are paying about 75% (higher than what we pay today).

I don't know...I find it consistent. I've gone through similar cycles at work. There have been at least 3 occasions just at my current employer where I have packed up everything in my office and loaded it into my car, ready to quit, move out of state, and start over in a new career. And then it has been followed by points where I am working on projects I love and everything is great and my home life is ecstatic. Then there was that point in my 20s where I literally had a bag packed, plane tickets to Europe in hand, ready to join the French Foreign Legion.


People can be pretty moody. Especially ambitious people who don't think they are getting the rewards they deserve, like Pete.

Seems like this shouldn't be enough, unless Roger is independently wealthy aside from his earnings at SCDP. He's supporting two wives and three children, and promised Joan that he'd put their son through college. And he throws money around like it's nothing.

We know Don is not independently wealthy, and he too has two wives and three children that he's supporting, and neither Megan nor his children have ever wanted for anything. It just seems like Don and Roger have bottomless pockets, whereas Lane can barely make it month to month. Even Harry Crane can drop $500 just to get Kinsey out of his hair.


But I don't see how a 15% difference in taxes is creating the vast chasm the show seems to be portraying. Don and Roger have never, ever thought about money, nor been especially careful in saving it. And they both grew up in the Depression. Lane has always been the prudent, financially minded one, so how did he end up on the short end of the stick?


I don't think this is a fair criticism at all. Pete had a pair of bad days. Now he's in love with Rory Gilmore. Things change. I'd hate to see you on a bad day if you think realizing you're not as cool as Don Draper is sound justification for suicide.

If there's one problem I have with this season, it's that there are too many characters with very prominent story arcs--Don, Betty, Megan, Roger, Lane, Pete, Joan, and Peggy. We have to go a few weeks to cycle back around through the characters, and it looks like next week we'll be seeing more of Trudy and Pete's troubles. I feel like in past seasons, the scope has been much smaller and primarily on Don.

Or maybe the problem this season is that most people's problems seem very urgent, but we're letting them simmer on the back burner for months at a time. This season started on Memorial Day, didn't it? And now it's Christmas, ten episodes later. This wouldn't necessarily be a problem, but so many episodes have been very much time compressed. This week's episode seemed to span at least a couple days, maybe a week. Most have felt like only a day or two.

90% tax rate? What the? was it really that bad on the 60's?

Is it me or Hendricks cup size increased by at least 2 this episode? LOL

I loved this Return of Don episode too. Don's scene in the bar with Joan reminded us of what an incredibly charming fellow he is when he puts his mind to it. His reaction to Megan's anger when he got home late after a perfectly innocent evening made me think that our Don is p***y whipped the second time around. Who would have thought it?

Harry's kindness to Paul seemed like a man bites dog situation. When was the last time, if ever, Harry acted charitably to anyone? Harry saw that the coldblooded Hare Krishna sexpot was bad news for Paul, so Harry took the necessary steps to allow Paul to escape the manipulative one's clutches and preserve a measure of self respet. I could hardly believe it. Now, we just have to hope that Paul really does go to LA.

All I know is Don needs to buy that car.

Megan becoming the next Betty? here we go again...

Anybody else think Don and Joan are perfect for each other or what?

I guess Don explained quite clearly why he didn't make a move on her before...

I'm thinking on the maybe when Don's tired of Megan's rants, he'll divorce her and get together with Joan..