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'Mad Men' on AMC HD - Page 73

post #2161 of 2329
Bob obviously thought he was reading signals from Pete that Pete wasn't intending to send. What people said out loud on the subject of homosexuality in 1968 could easily be intended as a smoke screen, so Bob wouldn't assume it to be a true reflection of Pete's own possible orientation. Bob's "pass" was the sort that could later be dismissed as unintentional, accidental contact.)

Also interesting -- Pete's lumping-together of all "perversion," an attitude that is still so often reflected today in the anti-same-sex marriage debate. This is often a demonstration of true ignorance (in the literal sense). But Bob could as easily have read it as deliberate camouflage. Pete is, after all, kind of a strange little guy.

Sally's discovery begs the question of how much she already knows or suspects of the reasons for her parents' divorce. And whether she watches Megan's TV show, which can't be any more melodramatic and suggestive than the lives of the real people in Sally's world.

To me, the real acid test here is whether there will ever be a real, honest conversation between Don and Sally while she is still young enough for it to mean something in her life. The real Generation Gap (a phrase I'm surprised I haven't yet heard in the show) was of course the product of an inability to communicate on such a fundamental level as to make the liberal/conservative impasses of today look like a momentary stutter.

The only way Sally can ever come to trust her father again is for him to open up with her, help her understand who he is and why. Her alienation (and that of the generation she stands for in the show) will deepen when that fails to happen, when he continues to defend himself with deceit, and to define his relationship with his children by a set of arbitrary rules rather than according to who they are as individuals.

Meanwhile, Peggy gets a cat. The Internet goes wild.
post #2162 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrLar View Post

I wonder if Sally was physically there when she found Don, how they producers handled a 13 y/o in that kind of scene, they must have shot them separately, also could explain why there were having sex with most of their clothes on.

I have heard interviews that says she was not even allowed to watch the show and has not seen most of the racy stuff. She is now around 13 so I dont know what she gets to see now. Even with adults I would expect that scene to be done separately unless absolutely required to show them in the same room.
post #2163 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrLar View Post


Bob gay? that explains why we haven't seen him kiss/make out with Joan yet, and I thought that Bob was going to say "Manolo is gay, so your mother is not in trouble" to Pete

That is what I thought too...However, this still may be the case as I swear I saw Manolo checking out Pete's ass earlier in the episode. Anyone else see that?
post #2164 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieva View Post

Bob hitting on pete seemed really odd and out of left field. Maybe there will be more about this in future episodes but I didn't get it

Yeah, I couldn't see any way Bob could have misunderstood Pete's expressions of what was clearly genuine revulsion when Bob intimated that Manolo was gay. I realize that Bob may have been judging his encounter with Pete through the rose colored glasses of love (Lust?) but even after discounting for that I still couldn't believe it.
post #2165 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Yeah, I couldn't see any way Bob could have misunderstood Pete's expressions of what was clearly genuine revulsion when Bob intimated that Manolo was gay. I realize that Bob may have been judging his encounter with Pete through the rose colored glasses of love (Lust?) but even after discounting for that I still couldn't believe it.
Conversely, maybe he did it just to pi** Pete off even more. smile.gif
post #2166 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieva View Post

Bob hitting on pete seemed really odd and out of left field. Maybe there will be more about this in future episodes but I didn't get it

Yeah, I couldn't see any way Bob could have misunderstood Pete's expressions of what was clearly genuine revulsion when Bob intimated that Manolo was gay. I realize that Bob may have been judging his encounter with Pete through the rose colored glasses of love (Lust?) but even after discounting for that I still couldn't believe it.

We tend to forget how much has changed since the Sixties, when "gay" still meant "happy and carefree" to most people. Homosexuality was illegal in many places -- even the entire UK until 1967. It was still considered a mental disorder by psychiatrists.

Pete's protestations could easily have seemed to Bob to be a smokescreen. He needed a clearer response to a clearer signal, and he got one.
post #2167 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdclark View Post

Meanwhile, Peggy gets a cat. The Internet goes wild.

Obviously, the result of watching too much Grumpy Cat videos. Beautiful cat, hope it's better behaved than Data's Spot on ST:TNG. tongue.gif
post #2168 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdclark View Post


To me, the real acid test here is whether there will ever be a real, honest conversation between Don and Sally while she is still young enough for it to mean something in her life. The real Generation Gap (a phrase I'm surprised I haven't yet heard in the show) was of course the product of an inability to communicate on such a fundamental level as to make the liberal/conservative impasses of today look like a momentary stutter.

The only way Sally can ever come to trust her father again is for him to open up with her, help her understand who he is and why. Her alienation (and that of the generation she stands for in the show) will deepen when that fails to happen, when he continues to defend himself with deceit, and to define his relationship with his children by a set of arbitrary rules rather than according to who they are as individuals.

There are 15 episodes left in the series. Unlike a soap opera, Mad Men moves quickly from episode to episode, so I don’t see a sit-down with Sally. As clumsy and poorly as it was, Don gave it his best shot when he spoke to her outside of her bedroom door, and in Don’s world, and the world at that time that is good enough. I think there will be a strained relationship between the two, but that incident just adds another chapter in Don’s downward spiral. Soon there will be no one left for Don to turn to.
Edited by Aliens - 6/12/13 at 9:36am
post #2169 of 2329
Not that he really gives a crap about his kids most of the time anyway...
post #2170 of 2329
Didn't Sally walk in on Roger and Megan's mom? She is either scarred for life or beginning to learn how adults behave. However, this was about her Dad so it has to hurt even more. I thought Don handled it about as well as he could given his state and the circumstances. And, at the time, Sally seemed to buy into it. I feel bad for her given that she dislikes both her parents.
post #2171 of 2329
Sally didn't buy into at all. She just knows her father wants her to believe his crappy story, so she'll pretend and try to convince herself it's true.
post #2172 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjonsnow View Post

Sally didn't buy into at all. She just knows her father wants her to believe his crappy story, so she'll pretend and try to convince herself it's true.

+1

Also, her arsenal of what she can get out of what she knows just grew enormously.
post #2173 of 2329
Don is becoming a major miserable hypocrite....

Pete will do anything to "win" and be respected- on his terms.

I don't know who's worse for Sally now, the out-of touch Mom or the volatile fraud Dad.

So Peggy's happiness now causes Don pain.....and a new way to dominate Ted?

Things are going from bad to worse.

So Bob Benson is a fraud....that gets to keep up his charade.

Kenny gets physically abused as Megan gets emotionally abused...

Its getting had to find someone to root for...Joan or Roger maybe.
post #2174 of 2329
Anyone else screamed "Oh My God they Killed Kenny!"

Well I'm glad he's not really dead, he lost the eye or just injured?

Sally is becoming evil, maybe worse than her Mom, way to use her friend to beat up another boy, such a liar like Dad and Mom
post #2175 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrLar View Post

Sally is becoming evil, maybe worse than her Mom, way to use her friend to beat up another boy, such a liar like Dad and Mom

Evil? I saw as Sally engaging in self-defense by calling on her friend Glen to stop the grabby kid. There's nothing evil about her protecting herself. The kid kept pushing her against her will after she made it clear she was not up for it. Not cool and totally deserving of an ass kicking. Go Sally.
post #2176 of 2329
A friend of mine who has viewed this show from the beginning like I have, stopped watching and recording a few episodes ago. He says he watches TV to be entertained and this season, while well written and well acted, is far from "happy" entertainment. I'm starting to agree with him, but it's too late for me to consider stopping now.
post #2177 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilerJim View Post

A friend of mine who has viewed this show from the beginning like I have, stopped watching and recording a few episodes ago. He says he watches TV to be entertained and this season, while well written and well acted, is far from "happy" entertainment. I'm starting to agree with him, but it's too late for me to consider stopping now.

Whatever floats your boat. It's certainly up to personal preference, and anyone is free to choose to watch or not, but that seems like an impossibly tough standard to meet for a dramatic series. Nearly any drama series is going to deal with the misfortunes of others and persons behaving badly from time to time. That's what drama is. If your friend needs to insulate himself from pain and misery and only receive "happy" entertainment, maybe he should stick to comedies.

In any event, I suggest your friend avoid Breaking Bad. It's not happy, but it sure is good.
post #2178 of 2329
Quote:
Evil? I saw as Sally engaging in self-defense by calling on her friend Glen to stop the grabby kid. There's nothing evil about her protecting herself. The kid kept pushing her against her will after she made it clear she was not up for it. Not cool and totally deserving of an ass kicking. Go Sally.

Sally is certainly as manipulative as her mother, without the sophisticated understanding of the consequences.

Call a boy to come over to the girls' school, bring a buddy, be sure to bring bring booze. Pot would be fine too. What do the boys read from that? In the social dynamics of Sixties teen culture, the boy's expectations were entirely understandable (as witness what was going on in the other room). After all, it was Sally who instigated the entire scenario.

When she realized what she had set herself up for, she over-reacted -- another Betty move, running for help, accusing the boy of attempted rape.

But to me the real revelation was how genuinely surprised Sally seemed to be by the consequences of what she'd set up. She has learned to look and sound like a human being -- a sophisticated one, at that -- but she is immune to people's actual feelings and their signals. Everything she knows about how to be a person she learned from Don and Betty. Poor kid.
Edited by rdclark - 6/17/13 at 4:07pm
post #2179 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilerJim View Post

A friend of mine who has viewed this show from the beginning like I have, stopped watching and recording a few episodes ago. He says he watches TV to be entertained and this season, while well written and well acted, is far from "happy" entertainment. I'm starting to agree with him, but it's too late for me to consider stopping now.

I sure hope your friend never sees The Killing this season!
post #2180 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will2007 View Post

Whatever floats your boat. It's certainly up to personal preference, and anyone is free to choose to watch or not, but that seems like an impossibly tough standard to meet for a dramatic series. Nearly any drama series is going to deal with the misfortunes of others and persons behaving badly from time to time. That's what drama is. If your friend needs to insulate himself from pain and misery and only receive "happy" entertainment, maybe he should stick to comedies.

In any event, I suggest your friend avoid Breaking Bad. It's not happy, but it sure is good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamstang View Post

I sure hope your friend never sees The Killing this season!
I possibly should have clarified that and perhaps not used the word "happy." He watches a lot of dramas and our tastes are pretty similar, liking NCIS, Person of Interest, Longmire, and many other cop, lawyer, and doctor series. Although many have their "downer" moments, most are based on correcting something that is wrong. I love Mad Men, but there are certainly more "downer" moments than uplifting ones. Having grown up during that era and being exposed to the small office environments of large corporations, Mad Men is an accurate depiction of the types of things I witnessed during my formative years during the late '60s and into the '70s. Did I ever mention the story about the Executive Secretary, the Christmas Party, and the Board Room Table? Use your imagination. (oh, I wasn't involved but it was common knowledge what happened).

And, by the way, I do watch The Killing but have never seen a single episode of Breaking Bad. I know it's a well written and well acted show, but having had a family member exposed to the horrors of crystal meth, it's my own form of protest and I've vowed not to ever watch it.
Edited by BoilerJim - 6/17/13 at 1:23pm
post #2181 of 2329
As usual, I enjoyed this week's Mad Men episode. It was fun seeing Glen again, especially when he protected Sally from his predatory buddy Rollo who didn't understand that "no" means "no." I agree that Sally contributed to her problems in the dorm room but she's a kid for God's sake! I thought, all in all, that she handled a bad situation about as well as could be expected. Anyway, it was fun seeing creepy Glen morph into a hero for once.

The dynamic between Don and Chaough is fascinating. Don repeatedly undermines Chaough because that is what Don does. But Chaough makes matters worse because his palpable feelings of inferiority where Don is concerned, along with his being in love with Peggy, make him an easy target. Peggy thinks Chaough is a nice guy but Don thinks Chaough is a hell of a lot less righteous than Peggy does. I tend to come down on Don's side on this one.

The exposure of Bob Benson was a hoot and the typically sneaky way Pete decided to use the incriminating information funnier still. The hazards to Ken's safety at the hands of the GM Neanderthals was also highly entertaining. No wonder he handed off the account to Pete.

All of this has me really looking forward to the season finale (midseason break or whatever it is) next week.
post #2182 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilerJim View Post


I possibly should have clarified that and perhaps not used the word "happy." He watches a lot of dramas and our tastes are pretty similar, liking NCIS, Person of Interest, Longmire, and many other cop, lawyer, and doctor series. Although many have their "downer" moments, most are based on correcting something that is wrong. I love Mad Men, but there are certainly more "downer" moments than uplifting ones. Having grown up during that era and being exposed to the small office environments of large corporations, Mad Men is an accurate depiction of the types of things I witnessed during my formative years during the late '60s and into the '70s. Did I ever mention the story about the Executive Secretary, the Christmas Party, and the Board Room Table? Use your imagination. (oh, I wasn't involved but it was common knowledge what happened).

And, by the way, I do watch The Killing but have never seen a single episode of Breaking Bad. I know it's a well written and well acted show, but having had a family member exposed to the horrors of crystal meth, it's my own form of protest and I've vowed not to ever watch it.

Just curious why you're protesting a show that so clearly depicts the horrors of crystal meth, both in its users and in its purveyors. Far and away the best show on TV. While it deals w/ the scourge of drugs and the underworld that accompanies them, it is so much more than that. It's main arc deals with how making a desperate choice can lead to horrifying consequences, especially when you continue in that choice, despite mounting evidence that your path is leading away from your goal, not towards it. But there are so many facets to that show; it depicts so many aspects- good and bad- of human nature.

But then, you and your friend seem to prefer shows where things are satisfactorily resolved- which of course is more entertaining, but much less realistic. I prefer my entertainment to be more life-like: depicting real human concerns, choices, actions and consequences; provoking thought and introspection; and displaying life in all its complexities. This is one reason I like Mad Men; given the subject matter, one would expect more "downers" than uplifting moments.
post #2183 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWinVA View Post

Just curious why you're protesting a show that so clearly depicts the horrors of crystal meth, both in its users and in its purveyors. Far and away the best show on TV. While it deals w/ the scourge of drugs and the underworld that accompanies them, it is so much more than that. It's main arc deals with how making a desperate choice can lead to horrifying consequences, especially when you continue in that choice, despite mounting evidence that your path is leading away from your goal, not towards it. But there are so many facets to that show; it depicts so many aspects- good and bad- of human nature.

But then, you and your friend seem to prefer shows where things are satisfactorily resolved- which of course is more entertaining, but much less realistic. I prefer my entertainment to be more life-like: depicting real human concerns, choices, actions and consequences; provoking thought and introspection; and displaying life in all its complexities. This is one reason I like Mad Men; given the subject matter, one would expect more "downers" than uplifting moments.
I guess I don't understand why it matters to you what I watch. I could rattle off all of the dramatic shows I do watch, but what's the point? In fact, my TV viewing is nearly all dramas with an occasional reality show or sporting event thrown in for good measure. You surmised that I prefer shows where the outcome is satisfactorily resolved. Perhaps, but what's wrong with that? For example, there are many more solved murders than unsolved ones creating (in your words) satisfactory resolutions. As for my friend, I don't know what all he watches and couldn't really care less. I just know he gave up on Mad Men which is the subject of this thread. I do know that my wife prefers comedies and other light-hearted programs so she watches "her" TV and I watch "mine." There are very few programs we agree on. And (the horror of it) she's never seen a single episode of Mad Men just like I've never watched Breaking Bad. And you know what? I don't care!

Neither should you.
post #2184 of 2329
Very telling that the episode opens and ends with Don in the fetal position.
post #2185 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilerJim View Post

I guess I don't understand why it matters to you what I watch. I could rattle off all of the dramatic shows I do watch, but what's the point? In fact, my TV viewing is nearly all dramas with an occasional reality show or sporting event thrown in for good measure. You surmised that I prefer shows where the outcome is satisfactorily resolved. Perhaps, but what's wrong with that? For example, there are many more solved murders than unsolved ones creating (in your words) satisfactory resolutions. As for my friend, I don't know what all he watches and couldn't really care less. I just know he gave up on Mad Men which is the subject of this thread. I do know that my wife prefers comedies and other light-hearted programs so she watches "her" TV and I watch "mine." There are very few programs we agree on. And (the horror of it) she's never seen a single episode of Mad Men just like I've never watched Breaking Bad. And you know what? I don't care!

Neither should you.

Um- I don't care. Defensive much? I said I was curious, if you read back, why you would choose to protest BB for the reason you stated, b/c it didn't seem to make sense. I thought maybe you had a misconception re: the premise of the show. Then I went on to discuss a little about said show and why I like it- for the same reasons I like MM (thanks for telling me the subject of this thread, since it's so self-evident; you were the one who brought up BB) . I surmised you- and your friend- liked shows w/ satisfactory resolutions b/c those are the kind of shows you stated you both liked. I never said there was anything wrong w/ that; just b/c I like something different- and gave the reasons why- doesn't mean I was implying that you should like those same kinds of shows.
post #2186 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliens View Post

Very telling that the episode opens and ends with Don in the fetal position.

I noticed that too. Seems like things are starting to catch up w/ him. He's been "falling" for a while now, but now he's really starting to feel it.
post #2187 of 2329
Thought I'd mention that Glen is played by Matt Weiner's son Marten Weiner. In case some of you did not know.
post #2188 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWinVA View Post

Um- I don't care. Defensive much? I said I was curious, if you read back, why you would choose to protest BB for the reason you stated, b/c it didn't seem to make sense. I thought maybe you had a misconception re: the premise of the show. Then I went on to discuss a little about said show and why I like it- for the same reasons I like MM (thanks for telling me the subject of this thread, since it's so self-evident; you were the one who brought up BB) . I surmised you- and your friend- liked shows w/ satisfactory resolutions b/c those are the kind of shows you stated you both liked. I never said there was anything wrong w/ that; just b/c I like something different- and gave the reasons why- doesn't mean I was implying that you should like those same kinds of shows.
Defensive? Me? Fat chance. Have a good day. rolleyes.gif
post #2189 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by andwhatnot View Post

Thought I'd mention that Glen is played by Matt Weiner's son Marten Weiner. In case some of you did not know.

That explains it. I’ve always felt he was weak and couldn’t figure out why he was cast. I find him stiff, awkward, and almost incapable of delivering his lines without being robotic. When Glen lived in the neighborhood, I would cringe when he had scenes with Sally. He isn’t acting; he is trying to act. Terrible, just terrible.

Jon Hamm, on the other hand, deserves an Emmy nomination, if not a win, for his excellent performance this year.
post #2190 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliens View Post

That explains it. I’ve always felt he was weak and couldn’t figure out why he was cast. I find him stiff, awkward, and almost incapable of delivering his lines without being robotic. When Glen lived in the neighborhood, I would cringe when he had scenes with Sally. He isn’t acting; he is trying to act. Terrible, just terrible.

Jon Hamm, on the other hand, deserves an Emmy nomination, if not a win, for his excellent performance this year.
I developed a new respect for Glen Sunday night. He has always obviously cared for Sally.
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