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'Mad Men' on AMC HD - Page 75

post #2221 of 2329
Wow, what a finale.
If John Hamm does not win an Emmy this year, then the award is a sham.

That scene at the office with the Hershey guys was a killer.....then the ending with Don and Sally exchanging glances as they stand before his old home.....oh my.
post #2222 of 2329
So Don Draper is dead, Dick Whitman comes back to life.. it seems this will be the final season theme

Pete and Peggy are forever alone, maybe they hook up again?

I thought that Pete would be more devastated about his mother, I guess his ex-wife was right, he's now "free"
post #2223 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilerJim View Post

Going down? Looks like the opening of the show represents Don's fall from grace.

Indeed. I've never understood why people tried to take the opening "fall" literally. Who is Donald Draper? has always been the theme, and his fall from grace is an inevitable part of answering that question. Only now can others begin to understand who he is, including Don himself. He is only now admitting to himself he has a problem -- with his alcohol dependence, with his philandering, and with his pathological lying. The only way to recover is to come clean with everyone. He is reinventing himself again, only this time back in the guise of Dick Whitman, the orphan kid from down on the farm and then in the whorehouse.
Quote:
"Both Sides Now" was a great song for a great season finale. For those who can do without having Don's kids in the show, his final scene with the kids couldn't have been more perfect. You could almost see that Sally may be starting to understand him, just from that brief winsome look.

That look was a great moment. Brilliant bit of directing, acting, and editing.
post #2224 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilerJim View Post

Going down? Looks like the opening of the show represents Don's fall from grace.

....as was very apparent to me from about season 1 episode 3 or 4.
post #2225 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by blitzen102 View Post

....as was very apparent to me from about season 1 episode 3 or 4.
Well, you can say it was apparent that early, but last last night's episode all but proved that "theory." smile.gif
post #2226 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSUL View Post

That scene at the office with the Hershey guys was a killer.....then the ending with Don and Sally exchanging glances as they stand before his old home.....oh my.

Indeed! I cannot remember any scene in any TV show that moved me more that Don's gut-wrenching honesty in telling the Hershey's executives the truth about his memories of Hershey's connected with his nightmarish life in the whorehouse under the control of a stepmother who hated him. I wonder whether Don's confession to the Hershey's people and his later, more or less, selfless decision to let Ted go to California in his stead were the most honest and open hearted things we have seen Don do? If not, I can't remember what else he might have done that was more generous. Don has been such a treacherous rat for so long, I can't imagine redemption for him, but his soul-baring confession to the Hershey's guys and his taking his kids to his old house almost (well, maybe not quite) made me wish that there were a way for him to save himself, even at this late date.
post #2227 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaded Dogfood View Post

I reassert that I like the Sally stuff, and if they could devote virtually a whole season to Betty's angst then they could have Sally's fate shore up whatever was going on at the agency and be compelling when they did it. Sally as drug-addled hippie child. But if there's only one season left then that possibility won't be able to be adequately explored.

I guess after seven years all manner of contracts would have to be re-negotiated, and lots of the actors are probably eager to be able to move onto other stuff.

So rare it is that a show ever quits while it's at the top of its game.

Maybe a related spinoff, a la "The Closer" > "Major Crimes" ?
post #2228 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Indeed! I cannot remember any scene in any TV show that moved me more that Don's gut-wrenching honesty in telling the Hershey's executives the truth about his memories of Hershey's connected with his nightmarish life in the whorehouse under the control of a stepmother who hated him. I wonder whether Don's confession to the Hershey's people and his later, more or less, selfless decision to let Ted go to California in his stead were the most honest and open hearted things we have seen Don do? If not, I can't remember what else he might have done that was more generous. Don has been such a treacherous rat for so long, I can't imagine redemption for him, but his soul-baring confession to the Hershey's guys and his taking his kids to his old house almost (well, maybe not quite) made me wish that there were a way for him to save himself, even at this late date.
I rewatched both scenes this morning and am not ashamed to say that I got misty-eyed. Don's confession during the Hershey meeting has to be among the best all-time moments of any TV show ever. And, who the heck would have suspected when he took his kids into that "bad neighborhood" what they all were looking up at before the camera showed the dilapidated whorehouse. What a priceless revelation!
post #2229 of 2329
Don had been spiraling downward for a long time, but what made him hit rock bottom and shook him to the core was seeing Sally starting to go down that same path. He was seeing himself in Sally. Even though Sally is a strong-minded, manipulative, and selfish girl, it was his failure as a father that was largely behind it all. That Don was an orphan, his lack of being a father to any of his children is highly ironic, because his children have essentially been fatherless. How often have we heard people say they will not be like their parents, and then they turn into their parents. As painful as it was for all concerned, Sally walking in on Sylvia and Don was a blessing in disguise

In visiting Don’s old home, not only was it a lesson for Sally (I thought it was more; you have the world by the a$$, don’t blow it, than her having an understanding of where Don came from), conscious or not, it was also a visual reminder to Don.

I’ve been so sure that the series would end with Don practically being a street person, but now I’m not so sure that he hasn’t turned the corner and he will end on a positive note. I still think he and Megan are history.

Series endings can be very emotional. Part of the reason this seasons incredible finale had such an affect upon me, is knowing next season is the last, and after that homerun of an ending, I can only imagine what they have in store for the series finale. Best stock up on the Kleenex.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JSUL View Post

If John Hamm does not win an Emmy this year, then the award is a sham.

I posted a similar comment last week. An amazing season for Jon.
post #2230 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoilerJim View Post

And, who the heck would have suspected when he took his kids into that "bad neighborhood" what they all were looking up at before the camera showed the dilapidated whorehouse. What a priceless revelation!

The very end of the scene of Don and his kids gazing up at Don's old house was ineffably sad. It was capped off brilliantly by the brief glimpse we were given of the little black boy standing on the steps of the dilapidated old house, staring blankly while sucking on a popsicle. I thought that little kid was a 1960s representation of who Don had been in the late '20s and '30s: a lonely little boy raised in poverty and neglect.
post #2231 of 2329

So much symbolism in this one as is often the case.  Wasn't Don reading The Inferno in the opening?  Setting up his arrival at level 9 hell by the end.  And the transition of the "new woman" in Peggy taking charge more or less, wearing the pants at the end (vs the short skirt earlier) and sitting in Don's chair as she turns to gaze out at the window at the world before her - much like the intro credits in silhouette of Don's back in the chair casually holding a drink doing the same thing.  They are really setting up the final season with Don's final outcome still in doubt, which is a good thing.  

post #2232 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will2007 View Post

Indeed. I've never understood why people tried to take the opening "fall" literally. Who is Donald Draper? has always been the theme, and his fall from grace is an inevitable part of answering that question. Only now can others begin to understand who he is, including Don himself. He is only now admitting to himself he has a problem -- with his alcohol dependence, with his philandering, and with his pathological lying. The only way to recover is to come clean with everyone. He is reinventing himself again, only this time back in the guise of Dick Whitman, the orphan kid from down on the farm and then in the whorehouse.
That look was a great moment. Brilliant bit of directing, acting, and editing.

Ah, but you can argue the opening "fall" is actually a giant misdirection. We thought we knew all along what his trajectory would be, but there may be redemption for Don yet. MM is not breaking bad. This last episode was a real game changer.
post #2233 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by barth2k View Post

Ah, but you can argue the opening "fall" is actually a giant misdirection. We thought we knew all along what his trajectory would be, but there may be redemption for Don yet. MM is not breaking bad. This last episode was a real game changer.

The Mad Men Title Sequence is a huge homage to Saul Bass, especially the North By Northwest title sequence.

http://www.artofthetitle.com/designer/saul-bass/titles/

http://www.artofthetitle.com/title/mad-men/
post #2234 of 2329
The Mad Men Title Sequence is a huge homage to Saul Bass

I would say more like Maurice Binder of the Bond films, but Binder owes a lot to Bass.
post #2235 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by PiratesCove View Post

The Mad Men Title Sequence is a huge homage to Saul Bass, especially the North By Northwest title sequence.

http://www.artofthetitle.com/designer/saul-bass/titles/

http://www.artofthetitle.com/title/mad-men/

Yeah, no doubt. Of course, given that Saul Bass is the grand daddy of all stylized title sequences and film graphics, you could say his influence can be found everywhere. Regardless, I had the same impression as you. I immediately thought Saul Bass, although it was Anatomy of a Murder that came to mind first for me due to the silhouette of Don.
post #2236 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aliens View Post

Even though Sally is a strong-minded, manipulative, and selfish girl, it was his failure as a father that was largely behind it all.

Kiernan Shipka said in a passing comment in an interview a few weeks ago that she understands next season Sally is really going down a bad path but she didn't know anything more than that since the episodes haven't been written yet and the fleshing out of the season will not start until the Writer's Room gets cranked up. Of course, it all could be BS or the initial idea could be toned down, depending on the exact path this final season takes.

From what Wiener has said previously, he has a basic theme for the season and he and Jon Hamm (who gets producer credits in the last few seasons) get together over a meal and talk about the different sub-arc's that would fit within that framework Wiener has in mind. After that meeting, the ideas are taken to the writer's and they flesh out what happens in the episodes. So what is thought today, may not be what is actually shot later.

Oh. Did anyone else notice the bad editing when Megan (attempts) to drop the F-bomb when Don tells her they are not going to California but it was edited in such a way you only hear the "ck" part of the word as if in post they decided that wasn't such a good thing for Megan to say?
post #2237 of 2329
It was edited out.
AMC is not PPV station, so the use of some vulgar vocabulary can and will be dubbed over or erased.
This has happened before in earlier episodes.....but likely on the dvd/bluray editions, they will be unedited.
post #2238 of 2329
But Breaking Bad is allowed to drop a couple of F bombs on each season... why not Mad Men?
post #2239 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrLar View Post

But Breaking Bad is allowed to drop a couple of F bombs on each season... why not Mad Men?

Pretty sure they are edited out on AMC and left in for disc.
post #2240 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupaKats View Post

Pretty sure they are edited out on AMC and left in for disc.
Really? I've heard them drop the S-bomb (or the BS-bomb) more than once. What's wrong with an occasional F-bomb? (at worst, they could use the old BSG standby "frak". biggrin.gif)
post #2241 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by humdinger70 View Post

Really? I've heard them drop the S-bomb (or the BS-bomb) more than once. What's wrong with an occasional F-bomb? (at worst, they could use the old BSG standby "frak". biggrin.gif)

Frak - the epithet gift that keeps on giving, thank you BSG. Been using it, to great theraputic effect, for years. tongue.gif
post #2242 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by humdinger70 View Post

Really? I've heard them drop the S-bomb (or the BS-bomb) more than once. What's wrong with an occasional F-bomb? (at worst, they could use the old BSG standby "frak". biggrin.gif)

I'm not sure of official rule/laws/whatever but F-bomb still seems to just be across the line for basic cable.
post #2243 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

Frak - the epithet gift that keeps on giving, thank you BSG. Been using it, to great theraputic effect, for years. tongue.gif

Like you, I long ago fell in love with BSG's use of "Frak" for You-Know-What.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SupaKats View Post

I'm not sure of official rule/laws/whatever but F-bomb still seems to just be across the line for basic cable.

That's what I think too. Although use of the word "s*it" and its various permutations seems to be allowed on adult shows on non premium cable nets. use of the word "f*ck" and its variants seems to have always been and remain a no-no.
post #2244 of 2329
You know I always thought frak came from Farscape, but looked it up and they used frell. I thought Megan actually said it and I heard it, but I guess I'm so attuned to the TV language my brain automatically inserted it. Not the first time. I've actually replaced a scene or two from other shows and found I did not hear what I thought I'd heard.
post #2245 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupaKats View Post

I'm not sure of official rule/laws/whatever but F-bomb still seems to just be across the line for basic cable.

Anything is fair game. Comedy Central has no problem airing some shows with the F-bomb.

As long as it is rated TV-MA, they can say what they want.
post #2246 of 2329
It really was a brilliant parenting move by Don to give his kids a glimpse of his past. Not that he should be forgiven for all his past transgressions, but maybe Sally will eventually gain some understanding of what causes Don to be Don. And, finally, Sally has some information about her dad, something she has been asking for.
post #2247 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SupaKats View Post

I'm not sure of official rule/laws/whatever but F-bomb still seems to just be across the line for basic cable.

Anything is fair game. Comedy Central has no problem airing some shows with the F-bomb.

As long as it is rated TV-MA, they can say what they want.

As far as FCC rules, from 6am-10pm local, you are restricted, by "local moral standards" (legal cop out at the federal level and what CBS and FOX and other networks have been beating on the FCC with in the courts since Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction" in 2003's Super Bowl) on OTA broadcast TV. Between 10pm and 6am, anything, and I mean ANYTHING goes on OTA broadcast. F-bombs, pornography, you name it. But no one does it because the legal hassles to defend yourself would be unbelievable. It would make these complaints you hear about now on network programming a picnic even though in the end, the stations would win legally, but lose with the remote. They aren't going to tempt it.

Any TV that you pay for is another matter (basic or premium, OTA even) you can legally do what you want, when you want to. But the reality is, basic pay is viewed in family settings so there is a certain amount of self restraint on the AMC's, FX's, etc of the world because they know people will vote with remotes when the kids and spouses who may not go for that kind of entertainment. That isn't to say that a S-bomb or even an occasional F-bomb may drop, but they are careful when they use it. Not sure if the Megan F-bomb was just sloppy editing or at the last minute they got rid of it because AMC thought it too much. Your HBO's and such run uncut programming, so people have gotten use to the idea that the premiums will have very raw language and scenes right up to quasi-porno and so it is tolerated and even accepted on those services. And you pay extra for the privilege of those F-bombs and bare breasts and butts.
post #2248 of 2329
No matter what the FCC might say, AMC, FX, TNT etc are supported by advertising, where HBO, Showtime, Starz etc are not. Advertising supported networks are bound to have limits (self imposed or not) on content whether they are cable or OTA I would think.
Edited by rkhopkins - 6/29/13 at 9:30am
post #2249 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxeng View Post

As far as FCC rules, from 6am-10pm local, you are restricted, by "local moral standards" (legal cop out at the federal level and what CBS and FOX and other networks have been beating on the FCC with in the courts since Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction" in 2003's Super Bowl) on OTA broadcast TV. Between 10pm and 6am, anything, and I mean ANYTHING goes on OTA broadcast. F-bombs, pornography, you name it. But no one does it because the legal hassles to defend yourself would be unbelievable. It would make these complaints you hear about now on network programming a picnic even though in the end, the stations would win legally, but lose with the remote. They aren't going to tempt it.

Any TV that you pay for is another matter (basic or premium, OTA even) you can legally do what you want, when you want to. But the reality is, basic pay is viewed in family settings so there is a certain amount of self restraint on the AMC's, FX's, etc of the world because they know people will vote with remotes when the kids and spouses who may not go for that kind of entertainment. That isn't to say that a S-bomb or even an occasional F-bomb may drop, but they are careful when they use it. Not sure if the Megan F-bomb was just sloppy editing or at the last minute they got rid of it because AMC thought it too much. Your HBO's and such run uncut programming, so people have gotten use to the idea that the premiums will have very raw language and scenes right up to quasi-porno and so it is tolerated and even accepted on those services. And you pay extra for the privilege of those F-bombs and bare breasts and butts.
SOA. on Fx is pretty racy and of course there is NYPD Blue on ABC back in the day with Dennis Franz moonings.
post #2250 of 2329
But even on SOA they don't drop the F. S is used all the time, but not the F. The mainstream cable nets are very cautious in the use ot that word.
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