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OPPO Digital Presents: DV-980H (1080p, SACD DSD, 7.1 Surround, USB 2.0) - Page 205

post #6121 of 6369
(deleted)
post #6122 of 6369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

The DV-980H uses a different decoder solution has its own SACD DSD problem: a thump when inserting a SACD or switching to a different audio stream (such as a 44.1KHz PCM stream from a CD).

The only similarities is that these are both OPPO products and both use MediaTek (MTK) decoder solutions.

I've not experienced any noises like that. Is this because I'm using the analog outputs? Does it only occur when sending DSD over HDMI (not an option for me)?

Thanks for any additional details, or link to details, about this bug you mentioned.
post #6123 of 6369
Thread Starter 
Only happens with SACD set to DSD. This means HDMI only.
post #6124 of 6369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Only happens with SACD set to DSD. This means HDMI only.

Thanks.
post #6125 of 6369
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatherom View Post

As many of you know, I own a BDP-83 but am experiencing the click/pop between SACD tracks. As far as I've learned (thanks Saturn!), the 980H doesn't seem to have this problem.

Is this the best option, in your opinion, for picking up an SACD player that does DSD and PCM over HDMI? I also want something that is quiet physically...minimal fan noise and transport noise.

Just wanted to get some other options, or to affirm that the 980H is the way to go.


I went down this path about a year ago and bought a 980H. The DSD "thump" can be worked around by enabling "autoplay", so the disc begins playing before the thump occurs. I corresponded with Oppo, and they suggested either thsi route or using PCM output. I tried both, and PCM sounded the same to me as DSD. However, my Onkyo PR-SC885 has a DSD mode, so I decided on the "autoplay" setting. I have had no issues with noises between tracks on any disc.

Prior to the Oppo/Onkyo setup I used Pioneer Elite's i-link capability for multichannel hi-rez audio. I had (still have, actually) a DV-47ai player that connects to any of the Elite AVR's with an "i" in the model number. (I have a VSX-56txi and a VSX-84txsi). They connect via a 4-pin i-link cable (which is an IEEE 1384 standard connection, similar to Apple's Firewire...also a digital camcorder connection). Denon had a similar system, but they are not cross-brand compatible. They can transfer 96kHz signals, and were the best option for digital hirez audio until HDMI solutions (IMO, of course.)

These units can be found fairly cheap today, and make great budget setups. Any of the Elite DVD players and AVRs with "i" in the model number will work.
post #6126 of 6369
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatherom View Post

As many of you know, I own a BDP-83 but am experiencing the click/pop between SACD tracks. As far as I've learned (thanks Saturn!), the 980H doesn't seem to have this problem.

Is this the best option, in your opinion, for picking up an SACD player that does DSD and PCM over HDMI? I also want something that is quiet physically...minimal fan noise and transport noise.

Just wanted to get some other options, or to affirm that the 980H is the way to go.

As you probably know by now I'm also a Oppo BDP-83 owner and am experiencing the pops and clicks between tracks on SACDs and have posted my findings in several other threads here. I am also a long time Oppo 980H owner.

IMO the 83 is a far superior machine. However the SACD playback issue is a let down, so to speak, for those of us like me who only listen to SACDs and DVD-A albums. I rarely play CDs or other digital media on my players so this bug is of real concern to me as well.

That being said the 980H is still a great universal player. I've had no problems with it playing any SACD or DVD-A. But it's transport is far noisier than the 83's transport. Plus it's much slower to power up and eject than the 83. But other then that I think it's a great SACD/DVD-A player. That's why I decided to keep it when I bought the 83 just in case there were issues with the 83 which we all know there are.

Let's hope they can resolve the issues with 83 soon. If not I wouldn't hesitate getting a 980H.
post #6127 of 6369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch57 View Post

As you probably know by now I'm also a Oppo BDP-83 owner and am experiencing the pops and clicks between tracks on SACDs and have posted my findings in several other threads here. I am also a long time Oppo 980H owner.

IMO the 83 is a far superior machine. However the SACD playback issue is a let down, so to speak, for those of us like me who only listen to SACDs and DVD-A albums. I rarely play CDs or other digital media on my players so this bug is of real concern to me as well.

That being said the 980H is still a great universal player. I've had no problems with it playing any SACD or DVD-A. But it's transport is far noisier than the 83's transport. Plus it's much slower to power up and eject than the 83. But other then that I think it's a great SACD/DVD-A player. That's why I decided to keep it when I bought the 83 just in case there were issues with the 83 which we all know there are.

Let's hope they can resolve the issues with 83 soon. If not I wouldn't hesitate getting a 980H.

Thanks for the info...one of these days, I may pick up a 980H.

Could you describe the transport noise you mentioned? Is it just during open/close/loading or is the transport noisy during SACD playback, in your opinion?
post #6128 of 6369
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatherom View Post

Thanks for the info...one of these days, I may pick up a 980H.

Could you describe the transport noise you mentioned? Is it just during open/close/loading or is the transport noisy during SACD playback, in your opinion?

Primarily when it opens and closes. I don't really notice any noise while it's playing.
post #6129 of 6369
[quote=Mitch57;18121714].......
IMO the 83 is a far superior machine.........QUOTE]

Strictly in terms of AQ for SACD and DVD-A, would the above statement still be true?
post #6130 of 6369
[quote=Saturn94;18128062]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch57 View Post

.......
IMO the 83 is a far superior machine.........QUOTE]

Strictly in terms of AQ for SACD and DVD-A, would the above statement still be true?

That would be a subjective opinion. But to me... Yes. However, used as a digital transport via HDMI I'm not sure there would be a noticeable difference if any. But via analog there is definitely a noticeable difference.
post #6131 of 6369
[quote=Mitch57;18129592]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post


That would be a subjective opinion. But to me... Yes. However, used as a digital transport via HDMI I'm not sure there would be a noticeable difference if any. But via analog there is definitely a noticeable difference.

Thanks.
post #6132 of 6369
[quote=Saturn94;18128062]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch57 View Post

.......
IMO the 83 is a far superior machine.........QUOTE]

Strictly in terms of AQ for SACD and DVD-A, would the above statement still be true?

The 983 has better video processing and a better analogue soundstage.

However over HDMI these differences count for nought. Also the 980 will bitstream DSD (from SACD) which some (me included) consider a better way to listen to SACD

Cheers
blairy
post #6133 of 6369
[quote=blairy;18148007]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

...Also the 980 will bitstream DSD....

As will the -83. Unfortunately, I took the 980 out of the system when I replaced it with the -83, and didn't do an A-B of the two. I would suspect that DSD is DSD, or bitsteam is bitstream, through either player.
post #6134 of 6369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

As will the -83. Unfortunately, I took the 980 out of the system when I replaced it with the -83, and didn't do an A-B of the two. I would suspect that DSD is DSD, or bitsteam is bitstream, through either player.

I'm not sure what happened, but that post you quoted, "Also the 980 will bitstream DSD", was not by me. Not sure how it ended up under my name.
post #6135 of 6369
Thread Starter 
It's because the quotes were originally done incorrectly on post 6129.

Additional commentators were pulling from this, which eventually led to incorrect quotes being issued.
post #6136 of 6369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

It's because the quotes were originally done incorrectly on post 6129.

Additional commentators were pulling from this, which eventually led to incorrect quotes being issued.

Thanks. That's the first time I've seen that happen. At least I wasn't misquoted saying anything bad!
post #6137 of 6369
So I got my 980H in the mail today and I am quite pleased with it thus far. No clicks between SACD tracks.

Just wanted to confirm some settings:

I am using PCM over HDMI currently (to an Onkyo 803 receiver). Based on what I've read, it seems like I'm supposed to set:
  • all the speakers to Large
  • the subwoofer to On
  • the downmix to 5.1 (I have a 5.1 setup)
  • the channel delay distances to 0ft
  • the channel trim to 0
  • the audio delay to 0
I do have a question about the volume control. It was maxed out to a value of 20, but when I put a loud SACD in, I noticed distortion. What is the consensus on this setting? Any preferred value it should be set to to avoid distortion?

Thanks all!

Chris
post #6138 of 6369
Having the volume set to 20 should not distort the audio, and in fact it is recommended to leave the volume at 20 since tuning it down will actually compress the audio.
post #6139 of 6369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Having the volume set to 20 should not distort the audio, and in fact it is recommended to leave the volume at 20 since tuning it down will actually compress the audio.

Well, 20 is definitely distorting the audio ...I noticed a post in this thread with someone else saying they had to set their Oppo to about 2/3 since anything higher would distort their audio.
post #6140 of 6369
Thanks smartypants, your post made me go re-check my settings. I could've sworn I'd checked the channel trim settings...well, I hadn't. Many were above 0 (an average of about 3dB). I set them all to 0 and now no distortion.
post #6141 of 6369
EDIT Wrong Thread
post #6142 of 6369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Thank you for responding.

LOL...... I got an e-mail from Oppo also asking what happens if I turn the Center back to ON then OFF. The answer is there is no change in behavior. I did try disconnecting cables and whatever cables remained connected were passing a signal, again, no matter what the speaker settings.

After further testing, it's apparent that this title completely ignores all the speaker settings in the 980H. Even if I set ALL the speakers to OFF, except the L&R channels which cannot be set to OFF, I still get sound from all speakers and sub. BTW, for testing purposes I made sure my processor (Anthem AVM20) was set to "ANALOG DIRECT" for the multichannel inputs so that no processing was going on there. Between this and cable connecting/disconnecting, I have ruled out that the processor is doing anything to cause this behavior. It's clear the 980H is sending a signal out all 5.1 analog connectors. Besides, it's only on this disc that this strange behavior happens. My other DVD Audio/SACD titles do not exhibit this behavior. I must admit that my collection is small right now as I have only recently been buying DVD-A/SACD titles.

This behavior only happens when I play the DVD Audio track on this particular disc. The other tracks (DTS, PCM) play as they should according to the 980H's speaker settings. I tried a couple other DVD Audio titles as well and they work properly, even when the DVD Audio track is selected.

Another problem I've had with the "Blue Man Group, The Complex" title is menu navigation. All the menu options (audio tracks, features, etc) are on the main page. When you try to move the "cursor", the movement does not correlate with the direction selected. For instance, I may try to move the cursor up by pressing the up arrow on the remote, but the cursor may move down, sideways, or not at all. I haven't been able to figure out a pattern and trying to select a particular audio track or feature becomes an exercise in random button pushing until you finally land on the place you want.

I tested this disc in my Pioneer 51, and the menu works normally. However, as you know the 51 lacks DVD Audio abilities so I could not test that audio track to see what would happen on the 51.

Oppo has asked me if I would send them the disc, but as I told them, I am very reluctant to do so as it was difficult to locate an affordable new copy (or any copy; it seems this title has been discontinued) and I do not want to risk damage/loss in transit. I've ask them if they could obtain another copy by other means. Hopefull they can and see what is going on.

I also told them I would also appeal to my fellow AVS members for help as there must be some Oppo owners who are also Blue Man Group fans.

Come out, come out, wherever you are!

EDIT: Would it be inappropriate for me to post in other Oppo threads to try to find another owner with the DVD Audio title in question? I'm interested in whether this problem is unique to the 980H or if it occurs on other Oppo players (DVD or BD players). It doesn't seem like many owners visit the DVD section anymore much less this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

Judging from the lack of response, it seems interest in this bug is limited. However, just in case anyone reading but not posting is interested in the status of this bug I'm posting the latest e-mail I received from Oppo.

"We received the disc and tested it. Indeed it is strange that the center channel cannot be turned off for this disc. It might be related to an unusual channel layout used by this disc. We often see DVD-A discs splitting the channels to Group 1(Lf-Rf-Ls-Rs) and Group 2(C-LFE) but this disc uses Group1 (Lf-Rf) and Group 2(C-LFE-Ls-Rs). However we are not certain this is the cause. We are forwarding the disc to our decoder chip maker for further study.

The navigation issue is highly likely a disc authoring problem. We tested on a Denon DVD-A player and the DVD-A menu behaved the same way as on the OPPO player. The user's Pioneer BD player does not access the same DVD-A menu, but the DVD-V menu on a different section of the disc. When we set the DV-980H's "DVD-Audio Mode" to "DVD-Video", the DV-980H can also properly navigate the DVD-V menu on the disc. The problem is limited to the DVD-A menu on the disc.
"

I'm glad to see they are interested in fixing this and not just sweeping it under the rug.

I've come across another DVD-A title that exhibits this bug (Olivia Newton John, One Woman's Live Journey). This is two DVD-As out of the seven I own.

Frankly, I'm am quite surprised that no one has come across this, especially considering the propensity of AVSers to find and report every little bug, minor or major, in these machines.

I know there are those who prefer to use a phantom center in their setups. In such cases they would be missing the center channel information entirely on the titles affected since the 980H will not redirect the center information regardless of the chosen speaker settings. I would think most AVSers would consider missing channel information a serious bug. At least in my case where I do have a center channel I do not lose that information, although for music I'd prefer to turn the center off and have that information redirected to the L&R speakers.

I sent Oppo another e-mail with the new title information in hopes it will help find a fix.

I had also posted in the 83 and 80 owners forums asking if this bug was present in those players but received no response. Hopefully Oppo can tell me if those players are affected as well.
post #6143 of 6369
Thread Starter 
You are assuming people who do phantom centers are also people who have the same taste in DVD-Audio titles that you. That is a lot of assumptions.

As a Beta Tester I test the player to my conditions, which is why I would never find any playback errors related to phantom audio.
post #6144 of 6369
Quote:


"We received the disc and tested it. Indeed it is strange that the center channel cannot be turned off for this disc. It might be related to an unusual channel layout used by this disc. We often see DVD-A discs splitting the channels to Group 1(Lf-Rf-Ls-Rs) and Group 2(C-LFE) but this disc uses Group1 (Lf-Rf) and Group 2(C-LFE-Ls-Rs). However we are not certain this is the cause. We are forwarding the disc to our decoder chip maker for further study.

There are virtually no guidelines being followed in DVD-A authoring. Some studios and even some individual releases do pretty much whatever they like and the result is one-off playback issues in specific systems or setups. It should not be viewed as a player bug, but as buggy authoring.

Given it's a dead format, don't be expecting much in the way of support from the decoder maker.
post #6145 of 6369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

You are assuming people who do phantom centers are also people who have the same taste in DVD-Audio titles that you. That is a lot of assumptions.

As a Beta Tester I test the player to my conditions, which is why I would never find any playback errors related to phantom audio.

Thanks for the response. I figured with so many users someone was bound to have come across this before. I guess I also misunderstood the role of a Beta Tester. I thought they would test under a variety of conditions. Perhaps that's accomplished by multiple Beta Testers with different setups.

Like you said, apparently I made too many/incorrect assumptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

There are virtually no guidelines being followed in DVD-A authoring. Some studios and even some individual releases do pretty much whatever they like and the result is one-off playback issues in specific systems or setups. It should not be viewed as a player bug, but as buggy authoring.

Given it's a dead format, don't be expecting much in the way of support from the decoder maker.

I guess my lack of understanding the technical aspects of how DVD-A works comes into play here. It surprised me that a disc could overide a players speaker settings. I thought the process of redirecting channel information came after the decoding of the information on the DVD-A. Apparently it is a bit more complicated than that.

I did get a response from Oppo letting me know they added the 2nd title to the list for evaluation. Also, they told me that the 80 and 83 don't exhibit this behavior. This leads me to believe that the issue is in fact a bug in the 980H. Oppo seems to acknowledge this and have made no excuses for it (very refreshing after dealing with other companies). But like you said, it's doubtful that the chip manufacturer that Oppo is relying on will put an effort into fixing this considering the current status of the 980H and DVD-A.

Fortunately, I do have a work around if I really need to force a phantom center for a particular title. It's a bit of a pain, but since my processor (Anthem AVM20) offers bass management on the multichannel analog connections, I can let the processor redirect the center channel information. So far, the two titles in question sound fine with the center channel on, so I've not had to go this route.

I certainly hope that high quality multichannel music doesn't dissappear. Perhaps we will see more of it in the form of BD as BD becomes more popular? I got into this very late unfortunately, but now that I've had a taste of it, I want more!

I appreciate the responses.
post #6146 of 6369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saturn94 View Post

I guess my lack of understanding the technical aspects of how DVD-A works comes into play here. It surprised me that a disc could overide a players speaker settings. I thought the process of redirecting channel information came after the decoding of the information on the DVD-A. Apparently it is a bit more complicated than that.

Multichannel DVD-A streams are actually 2 separate streams that get stuck back together. The only decoding going on is unpacking the MLP to PCM.

But there are also 2 layers of DRM, one of which is player-based, plus navigation schemes that defy all logic. Some DVD-A do in fact use instructions telling the player how to down-mix. During beta testing of the BDP-83, Oppo had to make patches and fixes for literally dozens of one-off disc playback issues and in the process they bought almost every DVD-A there is.
Many of those same titles had more than one playback issue.

By comparison, SACD is a cake-walk.
post #6147 of 6369
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Multichannel DVD-A streams are actually 2 separate streams that get stuck back together. The only decoding going on is unpacking the MLP to PCM.

But there are also 2 layers of DRM, one of which is player-based, plus navigation schemes that defy all logic. Some DVD-A do in fact use instructions telling the player how to down-mix. During beta testing of the BDP-83, Oppo had to make patches and fixes for literally dozens of one-off disc playback issues and in the process they bought almost every DVD-A there is.
Many of those same titles had more than one playback issue.

By comparison, SACD is a cake-walk.

Thanks for the interesting info.
post #6148 of 6369
Hubby and I were watching a DVD on our Oppo DV-980H tonight, and in the middle of the movie, it stuttered and then stopped playing the movie ( freezing at that point in the movie ).

We took the DVD out and washed it down thinking that maybe there were finger prints or something on it, and then put it back in when the DVD was dry.

Now when we try to play that DVD or ANY other DVD, it shows that it is loading, but eventually it says no disc.

We put a movie on a flash drive, and that plays just fine.

We have never upgraded the firmware, and are wondering what we should do.

Call Oppo on Monday, or what????
post #6149 of 6369
Could be a dirty laser lens. You might try a cleaner disc, if you have one. Also, possibly a dirty spindle.
post #6150 of 6369
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbawc View Post

Could be a dirty laser lens. You might try a cleaner disc, if you have one. Also, possibly a dirty spindle.

Thanks kjbawc, but that didn't help. Bought a laser lens cleaner and ran it twice, but it still says no disc. Does anyone know if Oppo still services the DV-980H player, and what is involved with sending it back????
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