Official AVS TiVo HD Topic! - Page 99

Exactly! I've a front projector for HDTV, Blu-Rays, and quality DVDs. I rarely watch SD TV any more, but I have a 50" ED TV that I use to watch it and old (poor quality transfers) DVDs. Which reminds me...why isn't there a decent version of 'The Black Stallion'?

I have had HDTVs for 6 years and as time has passed my detestation for SD programming has grown to the point that I just about won't watch it. In fact, with the exception of a few locally or regionally televised football, basketball, or baseball games, where my only choices are to either not watch the game or see it in SD, I won't watch it.

Wow, if this isn't a wildly stereotypical generalization....and a completely untrue one at that. There's nothing I can't stand more than someone who bloviates their misinformed opinion as fact.

Just because you haven't ever owned an HD set capable of producing a nice SD picture doesn't mean they don't exist. I just happen to be the owner of an almost 10-year old Pioneer Elite RPTV. I'll put the SD PQ of this set up against any other monitor in existence. This set simply produces probably the best SD picture of any mass-produced display ever made. Period. Don't believe me? Go read some of the reviews, there are plenty. I also own a Pioneer 4270 720p plasma and JVC DLA-RS1X DILA projector (104" screen) and the fact is that neither of these newer displays can compete with the Elite for SD picture quality. The best testament I can think of is that on more than one occasion my wife, who is admittedly a videophile illiterate, has commented numerous times at parties or other functions on how bad other people's TVs look because she's just so accustomed to the superior SD PQ of the Elite (not to mention the best non-linear 4:3 stretch mode ever created, "Natural Wide", which unfortunately never made it to the plasma line.) Even at 53" SD material is eminently watchable on this set.

And just because this set does so well with SD material doesn't mean it lacks great HD picture. Notwithstanding the typical CRT RPTV limitations (focus at edges, minor cabinet reflections, etc.) that all RPTVs suffer from, properly calibrated is puts out a fantastic HD picture that's sharp, colorful, has superior black levels and contrast, and still manages to appear more natural looking than any fixed pixel display in HD mode.

The main reason plasmas, LCDs, and other HD fixed pixel displays are underachievers when it comes to producing good SD picture is primarily due to manufacturers putting lousy (e.g. cheap) scalers in these price-driven commodities. But even with good scaling, fixed pixel displays still just don't produce as natural a picture as CRT sets can. CRTs don't draw "dots" or discrete PELs, but rather use lines and by their nature always use the native scanning frequency required by the input signal. Combine these qualities with top-notch electronics as in the Elite RPTVs and the result is simply stunning. I plan to keep my Elite as long as it keeps running and provides a bright enough picture. Properly calibrating the output has kept my tubes in great shape so I know I've got many more years to continue enjoying this set.

This discussion is better continued in the Displays forum but I felt compelled to respond to the inaccurate characterization above.

While I don't feel as strongly as you, I was thinking the same thing. I have an 8 year old 65" Mits RPTV that blows away most everything I see at friends houses and local electronics stores. These thoughts were fresh in my mind because I just contacted my favorite calibrator as I am due for a tune-up/cleaning. Hopefully I'll get another couple years out of it.

How does TIVO get time synch? Internet? I didn't find any place to set the time manually.

tia

jtm

During the nightly connection, every TiVo sets its clock using an Internet time server.

Thank you.

Yeah - HD CRT tech is probably the best with SD. My Elite plasma certainly ain't no slouch, either - especially with a good, clean SD signal. In fact, that's one of the reasons I spent the extra dough for it (that, and it's depth of tweakabilty - along with the superb PQ and reliability, of course). I still do watch a lot of SD. I'm really more of a "content" kind of person myself. I won't watch something just for the fact that it's HD (and even if it is, there's no guarantee that it's going to look good, either - for instance, I had to turn off the Miss Universe contest the other night after just 5 minutes. It was the absolute worst thing I've ever seen on a main, OTA HD channel - and I'm not exaggerating. It was all those non-stop flashing lights that did it).

I find I can tolerate talking head stuff pretty well, even when it doesn't look all that great (like with my Dish SD) - but if it's really that bad, I won't even watch it on that TV.

The worst-looking stuff I just watch on the 32" 480i analog set. I've got a recorder on that set, too, and I can just watch it late at night when I'm on the computer (plays RAM's & RW's, too - so I can just record it in the other room while I'm watching something else, and play it back there).

Not all SD is created equally and I think you need to discriminate between analog SD and digital-derived SD. Clearly, in my mind, I associate your comments with the appearance of broadcast analog SD on a flat panel display. I'm OTA only and received excellent reception and analog PQ out of Philly when viewed on my 32" Sony CRT. When I got my plasma last year I found the appearance of the same analog OTA stations to be pretty dreadful -- even without comparison to the digital HD equivalents.

However, I had a DVD recorder without digital tuner that I wanted to get some more life out of so I attached a Channel Master CM-7000 CECB, which fed it down-rez'd digital SD through S-video. The PQ of that digitally-derived SD as displayed on my plasma was quite good and I would often forget I wasn't watching HD.

So my point is that as studios replace their analog capture equipment with digital, the quality of SD source displayed on large flat panels will become less and less of an issue.

I purchased a DVD from Amazon the other day and received a $5 coupon from them for their on demand video service. I had never downloaded anything from Amazon to my TiVo HD before, so I thought I'd give it a try. I was VERY impressed with the video quality. I was expecting something akin to the quality of a podcast or YouTube video, but the stuff I downloaded was actually DVD quality. Color me surprised!

I've seen a lot of talk here about NetFlix, but I don't recall seeing much discussion about Amazon, so I just wanted to mention it. I don't know how often I'll use the service, but it's nice to know it's there. They also offer some free content that I did not know about before this. You can find it under Amazon Video On Demand / Top Categories & Special Deals / Free Shows & Bonus Content.

Those upgrading to Snow Leopard today, might want to wait if you use Tivo Desktop or Toast:

http://snowleopard.wikidot.com/

TivoDesktop 1.94 NOT working Does not start, shows java errors in log files

One feature some may not be aware of is Amazon's TV Pass.

This is basically a pay season pass to a show. You purchase a season pass to a show, and each new episode is downloaded to the TiVo automatically the day after it airs. For example, if you just use OTA, you could purchase a "TV Pass" to a cable series like Mad Men (HD) or Dark Blue (HD). You are charged for each new episode after it downloads, and you can cancel the TVPass at any time (and are not charged for future episodes).

At $2.84 per HD episode ($1.95 per SD episode), it is much cheaper to wait until the season is over and get the DVD or Blu-ray from Netflix. But if you don't want to wait, and you don't have cable, that is an alternative means to access a number of cable shows in high-definition. Unfortunately, at this time, they don't have any series from HBO or Showtime; they've only got cable shows from AMC, FX, TNT, USA, and other basic cable networks.

For now, you have to order TV Passes through the Amazon web site. You can't order them through the TiVo.

It's your HDTV not mine, so I am glad you are happy. Nevertheless, as the recent posts to this thread attest, you are in a distinct minority and, I think, quite clearly wrong. There is an inverse relationship between the native resolution of a TV set and the perceived quality of the PQ of SD programming. That's why SD looked better on my old rear projection 720p than it does on my 1080p Kuro and looked better still on my old 480i flat screen Sony Wega. The reason for this phenomenon is that there are so few scan lines in a 480i transmission that a highly accurate HDTV rudely exposes the many inaccuracies in SD transmissions. That's just the way it is.

thanks for the comments...I don't really care about SD material...have rarely watched it since HD came of age 5 years ago...

I know that Tivo's tuner should be better that older units,, but it's not an issue for me, with direct line of sight to SF's broadcast towers...

I feared that what Rammi told me would be the case...not quite as good high-def PQ, which - aside from audio - is THE issue for me.

(Frankly, I don't much like the Tivo interface, my biggest complaint being that when you're shown a list of recordings, to get anything beyond the program NAME, you have to select it, and to go to the next one, you have to back out, scroll down, and select the next item that might be of interest, whereas with TVGOS, as you scroll down, it provides a program description, without the extra steps...1 step for each item versus Tivo's 3...or has Tivo fixed this since last year???)

I'm not sure exactly what you are getting at(with your last paragraph) but with the Tivo guide you're given 2 choices. I've chosen grid guide which is similar to TVGOS (which is what I was used to). I'm sure bfdtv's OP has screen shots of both displays. With grid guide you don't have to select anything to see the descriptions, just using the up/down/left/right arrows shows the descriptions along the top of the screen, very similar to TVGOS (except the left 1/3 of the screen isn't taken up by a advertisement like TVGOS)

I can add my feedback here on PQ. I am OTA so all my network TV is HD. I have a 2008 Panasonic 50PZ85U 50" 1080p plasma with the TiVo connected via HDMI and set to native output. I am extremely picky about PQ. I can tell no difference between the HD picture I get directly from the Panasonic's tuner vs. a TiVo recording.

sorry if I wasn't clear, but I was referring to the list of RECORDINGS you get to via the first item after pushing the Tivo button...is my memory serving me correctly?

With regard to the grid GUIDE, I agree that works like TVGOS...though with the Tivo, when visiting my Dad, I've frequently run into the problem that, when I'm on an item in the grid and I push the record button, sometimes a record logo appears on the item, and sometimes it doesn't...so I sometimes find myself going to the list of things TO BE RECORDED (whatever that is called) to make sure the recording is set...which it usually is, but it doesn't appear that way in the grid...which can be disconcerting the next time you're checking the grid, and still don't find it indicated as set...

so what is THAT all about, anyway?

Recordings aka now playing, now I see what you mean. You're correct, you must select the line in order to see the description.
I also would like to see a verification in the guide that a particular program was set to record, TVGOS has this feature. Basically I just trust the Tivo will be correct and so far it's batting 1000, although I do like to visit the To be recorded screen occasionally.

I've never had the Sony to compare, but I've tested several other DVRs (LG 3410, Dish Network ViP622, DirecTV HR20, Motorola DVR, etc) in the past, and none were better than the TiVo in their HD output. Several were just as good.

Most modern DVRs use the same Broadcom SoCs with the same Broadcom drivers, so you would expect quality to be very similar, if not identical, through HDMI. The Sony does not use a Broadcom decoder.


The TiVo UI is still as you see in FAQ #15 (first post). The only change in behavior since release is the ability to play and delete recordings without an extra click. From the recorded list, you can now hit PLAY directly without displaying the program information. You can also hit CLEAR to directly delete without displaying the program information.

There are some people who don't like to see the program description when they play an episode; they view it as a spoiler. Personally, I rarely look at the episode information for my favorite series, although I certainly do that for new programs and movies.

All I said is that it is slightly less as good as the Sony's IMO, and it's such a miniscule difference (by a hair) that the average person wouldn't even notice - and that the more noticable difference I feel is with so-so SD.

Most people would be perfectly satisfied with both the TiVo's HD and SD PQ.

The same with me for SD PQ. When I said I actually prefer my DVDRs recordings it was because when doing side by side comparisons I seem to see more detail from my DVDRs. This is most noticeable in things like a tweed suit coat where the lines show up less on my Tivo. Now it's possible the DVDR is over emphasizing things but I don't see increased noise or the halo effect that generally show up when your sharpness is set too high. Maybe it's just more of what I'm used to but I'm sure most people probably wouldn't notice a difference or some may actually prefer the Tivo.

bfdtv - I think you are local to me. I have SPARE SONY DVRs if
you might want to do an A/B Comparison.

I have both SONY and TiVo in my theaters. I vote for the SLIGHTLY
Better HD-PQ on the Sony. It is not much, but on a 13ft Screen, the
TiVo looks slightly softer where the Sony looks more Crisp. But it is
not night and day - but I think it is there. I'm 100% happy with the PQ
of either DVR. If I did not have BOTH and switch back and forth, I
would never notice it.

If I could change the subject back to my post from a few pages back and the reason I came to this thread yesterday.....??

I've since installed the latest Bonjour from the Apple web site (1.0.6) to replace the installed version I had (1.0.3) I can now seem to use my Galleon HME apps if my PC and NIM100 are plugged into the actiontec MI424-WR (rev E) ethernet switch, but enabling the internal MoCA LAN interface on the actiontec still results in the same issue as before - full IP connectivity for all my HD Tivos using NIM100s at each but no HME apps. Looks like this unit has a problem with multicast DNS over the internal LAN bridges.

Does anyone else have a similar setup working? I was really hoping to be able to use the MoCA interface in the unit and use my third unit at the kids Wii in the play room.

I am another person who disagrees with this. I have a 56" JVC LCOS RPTV which does a very nice job with both SD and HD. I have two pretty good 27" direct view CRTs, a Sony and a ProScan, and the JVC is definitely better even with an analog SD input.

To bring this back on topic, beware that the Tivo HD and S3 can degrade the picture quality of 480i content if you use Native and Panel mode on a 16:9 TV. In that config, it inserts the black bars into the 480i signal that it is outputting, thus sacrificing some of the original resolution.

If you used fixed 720p or 1080i output then you will not have this issue. If you want truly native 480i output to a 16:9 display, you need to select Native mode and tell the Tivo that you have a "4:3 Smart Screen" TV. I think you can also avoid the issue by using "Full" aspect instead of "Panel". It gets confusing. I'm personally quite happy with 1080i fixed output, so I don't have to worry about this issue.

There is a thread about this over on TCF, titled "When is Native not really Native", but I won't post a link since I don't know if that is kosher here.

I don't agree, my Pioneer Kuro looks the best for SD of any set I've watched on, including my 27" Sony WEGA 1080i (4:3) CRT

My experience with my TiVo S3 and HD has convinced me, at least, that setting the S3 to 720p or 1080i Fixed instead of Native does not improve the PQ of SD transmissions. In any case, I have a Yamaha RX-V3900 AV receiver, which upconverts all transmissions to 1080p, including 480i. SD images stink regardless.

Similarly using the stretch or zoom Aspect settings to remove black bars hasn't helped, either. The PQ of SD uniformly stinks either way. In fact, increasing the image size by stretching or zooming it makes the PQ even worse.


Your profile indicates that you have an 8g Kuro, a 5010. What settings do you use for SD programs? I have a 9g Kuro, a 6020. I prefer the Movie setting for all HD and of course watching BDs. I have experimented (briefly) with brighter settings for SD but they didn’t help. Further, my biggest disappointment with SD has been that it has made the wonderful old movies unwatchable, which TCM shows in OAR but, alas, also in SD. For watching SD films, I can’t imagine that choosing a more vivid setting on my 6020 than Movie would make SD movies look any better. Nevertheless, I am interested to learn what setting you use that you have found satisfactory for viewing SD programming.

By the way, most posters who have addressed the SD issue in the Kuro threads have been as disappointed by the PQ of SD transmissions as I have been. Make of that what you will.

Is there a way that I can include meta data for my videos that the Tivo will understand? I have a bunch of family videos that I want to move from the PC to the Tivo. I'm using Tivo Desktop and it is easy enough to get them to the Tivo but I can't figure out how to make them all show up in a folder called 'Family Video' instead of just having dozens of separate titles on my Now Playing List. Any ideas?

One way is to upgrade to TiVo Desktop plus. You can then create a "push folder" on the PC. That folder will be created on the TiVo and anything you put in that folder on the PC will be pushed into the same folder on the TiVo. You can specify a max number to be allowed on the TiVo for the folder. If you watch and delete an item in the folder, the PC will push the next one in automatically.

This is one solution that is very easy to set up, especially if you are already using TiVo Desktop. I'm sure there are other 3rd party software solutions that others will know about.

I'll give that a try, thanks. I also just downloaded StreamBaby and that seems to work well (with the added benefit that it takes zero space on my Tivo hard drives and I don't have to keep multiple boxes in sync). This works but it still would be nice to add additional details about the videos.

The Tivo only degrades SD image quality when it is inserting black bars into a 480i/p source image and outputting that as 480i/p. This only happens with a specific combination of settings: Native resolution, Panel aspect ratio, and 16:9 TV type. If you output fixed 720p or 1080i, then the black bar insertion doesn't hurt anything since there is plenty of resolution in the output signal to retain all the original 480i/p information. Changing the later two settings can avoid the black bar insertion and allow true native output of the original 480i/p signal.