Official AVS TiVo HD Topic! - Page 100

Although my Tivo HD puts out a good SD picture on my XBR960, the standard (in my opinion) for 4:3 TV is the Sony KV32XBR2-100. I still have and use this unit and paid $3,000 in 1997 for it new. It has 800 lines horizontal display and a digital picture (you can freeze frame). If you click on specifications on the home page below, you can see a copy of the brochure. (It is also the only TV I have seen with a separate "feature box".)

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/mod...mdl=KV32XBR100

FWIW.

I decided to give Streambaby a try and ran into a problem. I have Win-XP SP-3 and the latest JRE (java) installed. I went to the links in the FAQ and downloaded the latest copy of streambaby.zip and read the install instructions which were pretty simple -- just edit the .ini file with a directory reference then execute the .bat file. That's where the problem came in. When I execute the .bat file I get an error message in the command window:
The error message is most likely in reference to the line in the .bat file:
java -Djava.net.preferIPv4Stack=true -Xmx256m -Xmx256m -jar "%~dp0/jbin/streambaby.jar" %1 %2 %3 %4 %5 %6 %7 %8

Any help appreciated.

Let me guess...You're using 64-bit Windows? If so, edit the .bat as follows to reflect the path of your x86 Java:

No, I'm not. I'm using 32-bit windows. But I edited the .bat file with a similar text as you show to point directly at the java.exe file and that works as advertised.

Once again, thanks a bunch.

As noted in my response to your earlier post, see Post #2966, my experience is entirely contrary to yours: the 4:3 SD output from my S3, as displayed on my Pioneer Kuro 6020, is as rotten at 720p or 1080i Fixed as it is at 480i Native. I should add here that the same is true with respect to 4:3 SD programming received from my other DVR, an SA 8240HDC. Also, the way only to avoid black bar insertion into any 4:3 SD program is to distort the image by horizontally stretching it. This is true whether you use Native resolution or fixed on your TiVo.

Kelson-
Just to help you understand why your previous (un-edited) batch file didn't work. Windows searches for an executable (like the java interpreter) in the specified location, the current directory, the system directory, and then searches 'the path'. The path is an environment variable that contains a list of directories where windows is to search for executables. In the unedited batch file there was no specific location for the java interpreter, so it looked in the current directory. When you edited the batch file you told windows explicitly where to find the java interpreter. You could have also just edited the path (Control Panel->system->Advanced->Environment Variables->Path).

If you already knew this...sorry to over explain things

Your experience is not contrary, you just misunderstood what I was saying. I never said that outputting fixed 720p/1080i would magically improve the quality of SD programming. What I said was that the Tivo can degrade the quality if you are using the wrong combination of settings (i.e. Native + Panel + 16:9). If you are not using that combination of settings then you will not see this problem, and your SD programming is already as good as it's going to get (i.e. it is not being degraded by the Tivo).

In your case it sounds like you just don't like the way SD looks on your TV, regardless of the source. Nothing is going to fix that.


This is not true. You can also avoid black bar insertion by setting the TV type in your Tivo "4:3 smart screen". Then 4:3 material will be delivered to the display as native 4:3, without black bars embedded in the data. (An additional side affect of this is that the Tivo menus are displayed in unstretched 4:3. Some people like this, some don't.) You can also do what you describe to avoid black bar insertion, by setting the Tivo aspect ratio to "Full" which will stretch 4:3 material to widescreen, and then adjust your TV's aspect ratio back to squeeze it back down if your TV supports that.

If you set your output resolution to 720p/1080i fixed then you don't need to worry about any of this. Black bars will still be inserted into 4:3 SD material, but it doesn't degrade the picture because it is being upscaled by the Tivo. Although part of the horizontal resolution is consumed by the black bars, the remaining resolution in the center 4:3 portion of the picture is sufficient to contain an upscaled version of the original 4:3 SD image, so there is no quality loss. If you output 480i with the black bars inserted, then the center4:3 portion of the picture will contain a downscaled version of the original 4:3 image, so quality is degraded.

Thank you for the reply. I did know about the path variable, but I was just following their installation instructions which said nothing about editing the path variable or the .bat file to add a path to the java command.

There are a couple things I like about Streambaby. The first is that it doesn't install anything in Windows. It just runs from it's folder so when you want to get rid of it (i.e. for an upgrade) you just delete the folder. I like clean apps like that. The second, of course, is the directory structure it affords you for organizing ones collection on the HDD's. Scrolling through 100+ titles in the TiVo directory under TiVo Desktop has become tedious. I consider Streambaby and TiVo Desktop to be complimentary applications and will be using both going forward. The only thing I wish I could do with Streambaby is to add it as a selection to the Now Playing List like I have for NetFlix and the TiVo Desktop folder. Having to drill through the showcase menus is tedious.

So going forward I can see continuing to use the TiVo Desktop folder to contain and stream the recently-added, soon-to-watch content. After watching it will be moved to the library folders for less frequent access by Streambaby. This would probably change if someday they add Streambaby to the NPL.

As recent posts on the subject demonstrate, there is nothing as dreary and irresolvable as a debate about PQ. In order to return to a more productive subject I will move on, with apologies to all for having entered that thicket in the first place. Mea culpa, I should have known better.

Yesterday I got a Netflix free trial subscription and tested its ability to stream 720p HD movies and TV shows to my S3. So far, I am very impressed. Some months ago Cox OKC gave me a two year free upgrade to their premium extra high speed Internet service, so my connection handles the streaming of HD video with aplomb. The PQ of streamed HD films, while not quite as good as cable or OTA HD and noticeably inferior to that of 1080p BDs, is nonetheless excellent. The PQ of 480i SD doesn't look nearly as good, as would be expected, and I have had some trouble getting the aspect ratio to display properly but I haven't watched much streamed SD yet so maybe I will like it better when I learn how to configure it. Fortunately, Netflix already has more than 300 HD movies and TV shows available for streaming and is adding more all the time. Now, if Netflix doesn't jack me around on my mail order discs the way Blockbuster was doing, I will be a happy camper.

As long as you have a stable Internet connection so that NetFlix gives you all the bars, the PQ of streamed SD is really pretty good -- a long as NetFlix hasn't messed with the original aspect ratio, which they do for many streams. My daughter was streaming episodes of The Tudors over the summer and I thought the picture was stunning on our 50" 1080p plasma.

I get a 3 day turnaround with NefFlix. If I drop it in the mailbox on the way to work on Monday, I'll have the next one delivered on Wednesday. The only big criticism I have is that for many of the new releases, if you don't get it as soon as it is released you could be on the waiting list for several months. So there is a strategy for this. New releases come out on Tuesdays. If there is one I really want I drop my envelope off at the post office before noon on Saturday. Then on Monday NF gets it and ships out the new release for arrival on Tuesday (the release date). If you miss the timing, you will often have to wait a long time before it is available. In those cases I find it easier to just go to the Redbox at the supermarket and get it for $1.

My intent was not to debate PQ. I was only trying to clarify how the Tivo HD/S3 handle 4:3 SD content. The things I was trying to explain are not subjective. In my opinion they are not obvious either, which is why I thought some people might benefit from the explanation.

On the subject of Netflix streaming, I'm also quite satisfied with it. I find it to be a nice complement to the discs by mail. The addition of this service to Tivo was the final nudge that I needed to justify the expense of a Tivo. I almost always get full bars of quality despite using a wireless connection. Regarding aspect ratio, I think the general advice is to set the Tivo's aspect ratio to Panel before entering the Netflix app (you can't change aspect on the Tivo once you are in the Netflix app). Personally I use Panel almost all the time, and I haven't noticed any aspect problems with the Netflix content that I have watched.

The SD streamed movie I had trouble with was Nick and Norah's Infinite Playlist. It looked all right but its horizontal aspect was squeezed. I fooled around with the Aspect control on my S3 and the Screen Size control on my Pioneer Kuro 6020 and finally got the image to fill the screen. Nevertheless, this was disappointing as I would have expected the settings that work for cable channels to work for Netflix streaming.

EDIT: After posting the foregoing I decided to stream another SD movie from NF, this time it was Donkey Punch. I was gratified to discover that this 1.85:1 movie filled my 16:9 screen as advertised, although I used my usual settings on my TiVo (Aspect = Panel) and on my Kuro (Screen Size = Dot-by-Dot). It thus appears that the problem I had with Nick and Norah's Infinite Playlist doesn't happen with all SD movies.


I have owned TiVos for 9 years and love them. If your experience is anything like mine, you will like your TiVo even better and rely on it more heavily as time goes by. As noted in my earlier post, Netflix streaming, particularly HD streaming, works well. My early experience with SD was a little disappointing but I have used it so little, I can't really assess how good it is yet. Anyway, because of Netflix's growing HD selection, I will probably avoid SD streaming for awhile anyway.

I know this is going to sound screwy, but I connect my TivoHD to my 50" RPTV with the S-Video cable as well as component (old model and no digital connection). Why would I do such a thing? The PQ from S-Video is quite good on a small screen like that and it gives me more control over that the aspect ratio with NetFlix and other streamed video. All of the outputs are active on the back of the Tivo, so you can just select the input on your TV depending on what you're watching on the Tivo. Low quality SD station or streamed video? then select the S-Video. HD material? then select the component input.

When I watch HDTV, I use the Tivo's HDMI output to my big screen.

50" is a small screen? Try telling that to the people over in the CECB sub-forum. They can't even accept the fact that I rate the PQ of the CECB's based on my HUGE, 32" analog CRT (or recordings made from them on SD DVD recorders, rather than VCR's. Too much resolution there).

Or my local OTA thread, where they do nothing but rave about all the new subchannels that are constantly being added.

Well . . . yes it is, kind'a. I didn't think so when I got my 50" plasma last year, but once you get used to it . . .

Anyway, I'm thinking now that the 50" would be more suited to the bedroom and I've got my eye on the new 58" V10 plasma for the family room -- that is unless the 65" V10 plasma moves down in price a bit.

You have a point. The number of square inches of viewable area in any TV screen increases dramatically as the number of liner diagonal inches. For example, a 50 inch 16:9 screen contains 1,067.7 square inches but a 60 inch 16:9 screen has 1,537.4 square inches. You can use this handy calculator and see for yourselves.

i.TV 2.0 is out.

Two of the pertinent updates are:

Sorry if I sounded snooty, didn't mean to. I think 50-60" is a great size for a TV. I use mine all the time. However, in a home theater with a front projector a 50" screen is a very small screen.

I was trying to say that an image coming from a TivoHD's S-Video output will probably look fine on a TV in the 50" range, but in home theaters with screen sizes of 100" or more, almost anything coming from a TivoHD's S-Video output will not look very sharp.

So I'm suggesting people who are streaming NetFlix video to experiment with their S-Video output if they've got a TV in the 50" range. There are audio complications (you need to use co-axial or toshlink audio with the S-video input), but they can be dealt with if you like the video.

I download a program with kmttg. I use it to remove the .tivo wrapper, and leave me with an mpg file. I do not remove commercials or re encode.

I'm left with a very large file.

When I play this on a PC, there is jumpyness in the sound (moments of silence)

I haven't tried burning to dvd, but I would not be able to fit two 1 hour programs on a disk. There has to be some way to reduce the size of these files

How do you go about that?

I create my discs with TMPGEnc. I also have the TMPGEnc mpeg editor.

I wasn't serious.

A great thing about DVR's is how they rewind just a bit after you fast forward.

You can fast forward through some commercials, and when you see the program start again, release the button, the DVR will rewind just a bit, and start just where you want it.

Why does Tivo do this when you rewind?

You hold down the rewind button, until you get to where you want to be, release the button, and the Tivo fast forwards a bit, so you miss your start point.

I guess you can get in the habit of rewinding more than you need to, but that's just a pain.

The fast forward is simple and elegant, why is the rewind so clumsy?

I don't think my 8300's worked that way. They would start right from the point you release the rewind button.

Tivo is great, but obviously, they don't get everything right.

Made for us old folks with slow reflexes...

I agree, the auto correction (I think that's what it's called) is great for FF but it's a pain for REW. If you only use the 1st REW(or FF) scan it doesn't auto correct. Otherwise I've learned to just over shoot knowing it will auto correct. I needed to learn to slow my reflexes down Coming from DVDRs which don't have the correction feature.

It makes sense to me how TiVo does it. If you are fast forwarding, you don't stop until you see your program come back on, thus going back a tad is a good thing. Well, rewind is the same way. If you are rewinding, you don't stop until you get where you want to, but we usually go a little too far, so it is good that it jumps forward a bit.

In other words, when going forward one goes a little too far, so jumping back is a good thing, so isn't it logical that when going backwards, one also goes a little too far (too far back in this case), so isn't jumping a tad bit forward a good thing.

Perhaps I'm like thewarm and my reflexes are just a little too slow. I guess I really just don't rewind very often, not nearly as much as I use the 30" skip or plain old FF.

For those of you familiar with Windows, there is a screen nick-named BSOD (Blue Screen of Death) for serious system errors.

I just encountered a TiVo GSOD (Green Screen of Death) on my TiVo HD.

Has anybody seen this screen before?



Background:
I purchased a TiVo HD and used it for about 5 months in it's stock configuration. I finally decided to upgrade the internal HD to 1TB about 2 weeks ago and ordered a WD10EVVS drive which is what's used in the XL model. I ended up receiving a WD10EAVS which is close, but not the same. I installed it anyway to see how it would work and notified the reseller I didn't receive what I ordered and wanted an advance exchange before I would ship the WD10EAVS back.

I used WinMfs 9.3f to backup the original Tivo HD hard drive and restored to the WD10EAVS. Everything was working fine until I got the WD10EVVS drive today and backed up the WD10EAVS I had installed and restored it to the new WD10EVVS. I put the new, restored drive in the Tivo, powered it up and it went through it's power up routine, then appeared to be in Standby, so I pressed the TiVo button on the remote. At that point it restarted and came up with this green screen.

That error can mean several things...

1. Your WD10EAVS was defective and/or developed a number of bad sectors.
   
   
2. You were running some kind of I/O intensive application during the backup which caused an error during the backup/restore process.
   
   
3. You were running some sort of antivirus or security software in the background. Many antivirus programs can interfere with the backup and restore process.
   
   
4. The WD10EVVS is defective.
   
   If you are concerned, you can run it through the extended test in the Western Digital Data Lifeguard Diagnostic utility. Generally, this program won't find errors unless your drive is in really bad shape.

bfdtv, Thanks for the quick reply.

1. Your WD10EAVS was defective and/or developed a number of bad sectors.
   
   So, to eliminate that possibility, I would restore from my original TiVo HD drive to the new WD10EVVS drive, correct?
   
   
2. You were running some kind of I/O intensive application during the backup which caused an error during the backup/restore process.
   
   Not the case here.
   
   
3. You were running some sort of antivirus or security software in the background. Many antivirus programs can interfere with the backup and restore process.
   
   On an unmounted drive in Windows? I really don't think that's the case and it would be news to me, but hey, I'm always learning too ;-).
   
   
4. The WD10EVVS is defective.
   If you are concerned, you can run it through the extended test in the Western Digital Data Lifeguard Diagnostic utility. Generally, this program won't find errors unless your drive is in really bad shape.
   
   I'll go with trying a restore from the original TiVo drive. Could be the new drive's defective and it would result in the same error.

Update: Back in TiVo Land...

After leaving it alone for 3 hours as suggested by the TiVo, it's now working...

I know enough about Linux & Unix to know about fschk (Windows version of chkdsk) and I wonder if that's what occurred.

When I shut down my TiVo before the upgrade to the new hard drive, (there's no way to do a shutdown, AFAIK) so I put it in STANDBY and pulled the AC power cord. I was skeptical as to whether the TiVo had enough time going into STANDBY mode to save to disk. I guess not.

Is there any way to SHUT-DOWN the TiVo?

Not STANDBY or RESTART, but like Linux or UNIX, to 'shutdown' ?

When it finally recovered (I left it alone for a full 3 hours), it still had the last recorded show in the NPL that I had deleted from the NPL and deleted from the DELETED folder in the NPL. When I tried to delete it, it said it was no longer available in the NPL, which leads me to believe that when you put the TiVo into STANDBY, it does it's catchup/cleanup work.

How do you 'SHUTDOWN' a TiVo?

When used with an OTA signal, does the Tivo HD have a signal meter you can call up on the screen?

Yes-through settings and dvr diagnostics, I believe. It will give signal strength. Not necessarily a "meter" but gives you the signal strength in numbers with 100 being the strongest signal.