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Official AVS TiVo HD Topic! - Page 152

post #4531 of 4794
8/27/11 at 7:19pm
I'm confused by the $20 ongoing monthly fee? The best I can tell, the Tivo user is paying $20/month for a TV guide?

Even the inflated prices of Netflix are less than that, and they actually provide services.
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post #4532 of 4794
8/27/11 at 8:09pm
Can the $99 TIVO Premiere device be used just as a tuner for, say, and HD projector, without purchasing service? Can I use it in this fashion WITHOUT the cablecard from the local Time Warner folks to drag in the unencrypted QAM at the very least?
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post #4533 of 4794
8/28/11 at 8:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post

Can the $99 TIVO Premiere device be used just as a tuner for, say, and HD projector, without purchasing service? Can I use it in this fashion WITHOUT the cablecard from the local Time Warner folks to drag in the unencrypted QAM at the very least?

For antenna usage, the unregistered Tivo Priemer can be used as a tuner, but you loose the DVR service. Not sure about QAM, though.

BTW, I saw that Antennas Direct is now offering the Tivo Primere as an option for use with antennas. Looks like they're offering the box for under a hundred, Tivo subscription for half price when used solely with an antenna or online services, and a discount of 25% of an antenna to go with it.
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post #4534 of 4794
8/28/11 at 8:59am
Yes to both, and with the lower prices for Premiere hardware and Cablecards nowadays it's a very cheap way to add a cable or OTA box if you don't care about recording or internet apps on the Tivo.
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post #4535 of 4794
8/28/11 at 5:01pm
So I grabbed the $99 TIVO premiere box from a local Best Buy today. Coming from the SageTV (and other HTPC video recorders) community, I am utterly astonished at the "financial rape" that is referred to as TIVO. The HTPC community knows that EPG isn't something paid for, it's public info readily available anywhere on the Internet.

You folks are absolutely correct, even though 98% of the functionality is all right inside the hardware, unless you pay the man his $20/month (minimum), you won't get the EPG portion, and then as a result, TIVO locks you out of any of the device's recording capabilities. So basically, the hardware, full of capability, becomes nothing more than a glorified Digital TV tuner.

What a joke.
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post #4536 of 4794
8/28/11 at 9:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post

The HTPC community knows that EPG isn't something paid for, it's public info readily available anywhere on the Internet.

I had always heard that the FCC mandated that EPG info be free for personal use, but commercial users had to pay whatever the going rate. So Tivo (as well as the cable co's) have to pay for the data, and probably end-up subsidizing the service for the rest of us.

Also, in my experience, EPG data is hard to get 100% accurate. I've had better results with my Tivo than with any of the free EPG services I've used on my HTPC.
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post #4537 of 4794
8/29/11 at 4:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post

You folks are absolutely correct, even though 98% of the functionality is all right inside the hardware, unless you pay the man his $20/month (minimum), you won't get the EPG portion, and then as a result, TIVO locks you out of any of the device's recording capabilities. So basically, the hardware, full of capability, becomes nothing more than a glorified Digital TV tuner.

What a joke.

Seriously? If you don't want to pay for it then don't, but don't come bitching here about the cost of service. It is what it is. I gladly paid for lifetime on my boxes because they pay for themselves in around 3 years vs. renting the crappy cable DVR.
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post #4538 of 4794
8/29/11 at 7:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Seriously? If you don't want to pay for it then don't, but don't come bitching here about the cost of service. It is what it is. I gladly paid for lifetime on my boxes because they pay for themselves in around 3 years vs. renting the crappy cable DVR.

That's right. I bought a lifetime subscription for my TiVo Series3 four and a half years ago for $200, which works out to $3.12 a month for the service and will get cheaper every month I leave my S3 in service. That's cheap by any measure and would have still have been cheap if I had paid $400 for lifetime service. Anyway, I pay TiVo for the unmatched utility it provides. Nothing out there compares with TiVo, it seems to me.
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post #4539 of 4794
8/29/11 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdsalsero View Post

I had always heard that the FCC mandated that EPG info be free for personal use, but commercial users had to pay whatever the going rate. So Tivo (as well as the cable co's) have to pay for the data, and probably end-up subsidizing the service for the rest of us.

I think you accidentally stated that backwards. If it's free for personal use, then the fee subscribing public is subsidizing the cost of the service for Tivo and the cable co's, not the other way around. Just going by your own statement.
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post #4540 of 4794
8/29/11 at 9:51am
Regardless of how you feel about the way TiVo attempts to generate revenues including what they charge for their TiVo service (guide data being a small portion of that) it's irrelevant. One certainly can't call it over-priced as a company they are far from profitable outside of a few patent wins.

Hardware wise it's designed and sold based on TiVo service revenues and trying to separate the two isn't logical as neither would exist without the other. If you don't want the TiVo service purchase that digital VCR that's oh so popular (Channel Master DVR).
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post #4541 of 4794
8/29/11 at 10:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Hardware wise it's designed and sold based on TiVo service revenues and trying to separate the two isn't logical as neither would exist without the other. If you don't want the TiVo service purchase that digital VCR that's oh so popular (Channel Master DVR).

I agree that it's a mistake to fixate on TiVo's service fees because what TiVo is selling is a DVR plus the software and guide data necessary to allow the user to quickly and easily find and watch, or setup to record, the programs he wants to see. Thus, it's necessary to consider the cost of everything before comparing it with the cable company's offerings. After years of suffering with Cox OKC's DVRs, their too small hard drives, and primitive software, I long ago concluded that TiVo provided the most bang for the buck. That's why I have used TiVo DVRs since 2000.
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post #4542 of 4794
8/29/11 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post

What a joke.

You get what you pay for.
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post #4543 of 4794
8/29/11 at 5:14pm
I pay for zero (recurring costs) right now using SageTV, and I have gotten quite a bit for that (understanding that there was initial setup costs, along with the PC.)

Additionally, as long as I stay within the confines of the rules of the forum, I guess I'll post whatever I darn well please, whether the reader believes it's valid or invalid griping.

For those of you that posted intelligent responses, it's greatly appreciated. Thank you.
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post #4544 of 4794
8/29/11 at 6:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post

So I grabbed the $99 TIVO premiere box from a local Best Buy today. Coming from the SageTV (and other HTPC video recorders) community, I am utterly astonished at the "financial rape" that is referred to as TIVO. The HTPC community knows that EPG isn't something paid for, it's public info readily available anywhere on the Internet.

You folks are absolutely correct, even though 98% of the functionality is all right inside the hardware, unless you pay the man his $20/month (minimum), you won't get the EPG portion, and then as a result, TIVO locks you out of any of the device's recording capabilities. So basically, the hardware, full of capability, becomes nothing more than a glorified Digital TV tuner.

What a joke.

I would be interested in what you feel is the best solution for TV watching. I'd like 14 days of guide data, 5.1 channel audio and HD picture resolution. I'd like it to be fairly easy, not needing 3 or 4 devices running at once to watch TV. I don't want a pc and keyboard in my living room. AND yes, I also want it cheap. I have a setup which includes a new Denon receiver, a 100 inch screen, optoma hd20 projector, Boston acoustic speakers and subwoofer in a dedicated media room (addition to the house). I've already used the dtvpal, (no consistent guide data), and windows media center (but then I am counting on my pc, router, Xbox and everything to run continuously just for me to watch regular TV).
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post #4545 of 4794
8/29/11 at 7:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post

I pay for zero (recurring costs) right now using SageTV, and I have gotten quite a bit for that (understanding that there was initial setup costs, along with the PC.)

Additionally, as long as I stay within the confines of the rules of the forum, I guess I'll post whatever I darn well please, whether the reader believes it's valid or invalid griping.

For those of you that posted intelligent responses, it's greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Are you getting that guide data via Sage? If so, you have to be wondering how long that will last now that Google bought the company and it is now defunct.
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post #4546 of 4794
8/30/11 at 4:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post

I pay for zero (recurring costs) right now using SageTV, and I have gotten quite a bit for that (understanding that there was initial setup costs, along with the PC.)

Yeah and you also don't get all the cable channels on Sage with Cablecard tuners on systems like TWC, Cox, and Brighthouse. If all you want is OTA or clear QAM, Tivo is probably not for you.

Two Tivos with lifetime service cost roughly what the same setup would be with an HTPC + extender. The PC might be somewhat cheaper now that the Ceton tuners have come down in price, I haven't checked lately. On the flip side, the Tivos are easier to use on a daily basis. There are pros and cons to either approach.

Regardless, the Tivo hardware is subsidized and the cost of service is way more than the guide data, it's their whole business model (retail-wise, that is). Sorry you haven't figured that out, but complaining about cost of service here will get you nowhere.
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post #4547 of 4794
8/30/11 at 9:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post

So I grabbed the $99 TIVO premiere box from a local Best Buy today. Coming from the SageTV (and other HTPC video recorders) community, I am utterly astonished at the "financial rape" that is referred to as TIVO.

I'm always amused that people are willing to spend big $$ on a display and equally big $$ on an audio setup but when it comes to spending $600 for a TiVo to feed it all, that somehow triggers such indignation. Perhaps it's ease of use and the fact that it "just works", dependably, makes it seem it doesn't do enough for the cost. It's not like there aren't lower cost alternatives with frugal feature sets that one could choose to buy instead -- oh wait, they're not exactly reliable (if they work at all), are they.

TiVo is a feature-laden high-end unit. It is much more than a tuner box with a HDD & TV guide and it costs accordingly. No one finds fault if you are not willing to pay for high-end. But complaining that the cost of TiVo is "financial rape" is like going into the Denon forum and complaining that their high-end units are not priced like a Sylvania.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

If all you want is OTA . . . Tivo is probably not for you.

Not to single you out on this, but I often read people making this statement as if one needs to hook a TiVo up to 300 cable channels that one won't watch in order to justify the cost of a TiVo. Kind'a like saying don't bother with a nice big plasma if you are only going to watch OTA. I've been OTA for decades and going from a DVD Recorder to a networked TiVo HD was the best investment I ever made. My plasma and AVR thank me -- even my wife does. I would recommend to anyone looking for an OTA DVR that they start and stop their search at TiVo.
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post #4548 of 4794
8/30/11 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

I'm always amused that people are willing to spend big $$ on a display and equally big $$ on an audio setup but when it comes to spending $600 for a TiVo to feed it all, that somehow triggers such indignation. Perhaps it's ease of use and the fact that it "just works", dependably, makes it seem it doesn't do enough for the cost. It's not like there aren't lower cost alternatives with frugal feature sets that one could choose to buy instead -- oh wait, they're not exactly reliable (if they work at all), are they.

TiVo is a feature-laden high-end unit. It is much more than a tuner box with a HDD & TV guide and it costs accordingly. No one finds fault if you are not willing to pay for high-end. But complaining that the cost of TiVo is "financial rape" is like going into the Denon forum and complaining that their high-end units are not priced like a Sylvania.

Not to single you out on this, but I often read people making this statement as if one needs to hook a TiVo up to 300 cable channels that one won't watch in order to justify the cost of a TiVo. Kind'a like saying don't bother with a nice big plasma if you are only going to watch OTA. I've been OTA for decades and going from a DVD Recorder to a networked TiVo HD was the best investment I ever made. My plasma and AVR thank me -- even my wife does. I would recommend to anyone looking for an OTA DVR that they start and stop their search at TiVo.

I've been OTA-Only for 3 years now and agree 100% that TiVo is the best way to go. I was hooked back in the day when I had a TiVo from DTV. A very functional box for what it does. My only complaint is the Netflix interface is all but useless. But I use Apple TV for that anyway.
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post #4549 of 4794
8/30/11 at 1:31pm
If any one is interested, I threw a lifetimed premeire up in the classifieds.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbcla...do=ad&id=16160

EDIT - Deal pending.
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post #4550 of 4794
8/30/11 at 5:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post


TiVo is a feature-laden high-end unit. It is much more than a tuner box with a HDD & TV guide and it costs accordingly...

Well, eductate me then on what more it really is. Obviously, we can leave out pretty much any web based media, any one of us here already knows that some (one time fee) $100 device from Best Buy does web based media just fine, and there's no monthly fee.

So, other than a tuner box that can record and provide a TV guide, what else can I do with it?

On a sidenote, glad I could amuse you, and oh, really great analogies!
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post #4551 of 4794
8/30/11 at 5:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

Are you getting that guide data via Sage? If so, you have to be wondering how long that will last now that Google bought the company and it is now defunct.

I guess the numerous programmers over in the Sage forum already have the guide situation worked out, for when Sage quits providing that in a year or so.

The intriguing part, is that a tiny little entity like Sage caught the attention of giant like Google, while other avenues are kicked to the curb. One has to wonder what kind of Tivo crushing ideas that Google is dreaming up at this point regarding the countless patents involved in some of their latest acquisitions.
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post #4552 of 4794
8/30/11 at 5:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zebrafetish2000 View Post

I would be interested in what you feel is the best solution for TV watching. I'd like 14 days of guide data, 5.1 channel audio and HD picture resolution. I'd like it to be fairly easy, not needing 3 or 4 devices running at once to watch TV. I don't want a pc and keyboard in my living room. AND yes, I also want it cheap. I have a setup which includes a new Denon receiver, a 100 inch screen, optoma hd20 projector, Boston acoustic speakers and subwoofer in a dedicated media room (addition to the house). I've already used the dtvpal, (no consistent guide data), and windows media center (but then I am counting on my pc, router, Xbox and everything to run continuously just for me to watch regular TV).

Dunno, zebra, still trying to figure it all out. One of the greatest challenges that any one of us faces is that once we've recorded , how do I rip that and copy it for watching on my Android phone, or pretty much anything else I want to watch it on for that matter.
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post #4553 of 4794
8/30/11 at 5:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post

Well, eductate me then on what more it really is. Obviously, we can leave out pretty much any web based media, any one of us here already knows that some (one time fee) $100 device from Best Buy does web based media just fine, and there's no monthly fee.

So, other than a tuner box that can record and provide a TV guide, what else can I do with it?

My Suggestion is take the TiVo back to Best Buy.

You are an IMPULSE buyer who has no clue what you BOUGHT.

Bring it Back to Best Buy. It will make all of us HAPPY and SAVE
you $20 per month.
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post #4554 of 4794
8/30/11 at 6:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

My Suggestion is take the TiVo back to Best Buy.

You are an IMPULSE buyer who has no clue what you BOUGHT.

Bring it Back to Best Buy. It will make all of us HAPPY and SAVE
you $20 per month.

Thanks for the suggestion, hanky, I'll keep that under deep consideration.
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post #4555 of 4794
8/30/11 at 6:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post

Well, eductate me then on what more it really is.

It's been posted for years. You might try starting here (nice comparison to its competition): http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post15369795

You get to decide if the much cheaper purchase price and $10 a month is worth the difference.
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post #4556 of 4794
8/30/11 at 6:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

It's been posted for years. You might try starting here (nice comparison to its competition): http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post15369795

You get to decide if the much cheaper purchase price and $10 a month is worth the difference.

Thanks, Charles. Do you have any experience with it by chance? How well do you think that would work here with the cable service in my apartment building?
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post #4557 of 4794
8/31/11 at 2:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post

Well, eductate me then on what more it really is. Obviously, we can leave out pretty much any web based media, any one of us here already knows that some (one time fee) $100 device from Best Buy does web based media just fine, and there's no monthly fee.

So, other than a tuner box that can record and provide a TV guide, what else can I do with it?

On a sidenote, glad I could amuse you, and oh, really great analogies!

You sound like a guy who drives a Ford Focus because it is just like a Beemer, lives in a House Trailer because it is just like a real House, and drinks 2 Buck Chuck because it's just like a nice bottle of Silver Oak Cabernet.
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post #4558 of 4794
8/31/11 at 5:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post

How well do you think that would work here with the cable service in my apartment building?

From the first few lines of the link...

The Dish Network DTVPal DVR is a dual-tuner HDTV DVR that supports SD and HD channels from an off-air antenna. Satellite and cable (QAM) are not supported.

Reading can be beneficial.
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post #4559 of 4794
8/31/11 at 6:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Not to single you out on this, but I often read people making this statement as if one needs to hook a TiVo up to 300 cable channels that one won't watch in order to justify the cost of a TiVo. Kind'a like saying don't bother with a nice big plasma if you are only going to watch OTA. I've been OTA for decades and going from a DVD Recorder to a networked TiVo HD was the best investment I ever made. My plasma and AVR thank me -- even my wife does. I would recommend to anyone looking for an OTA DVR that they start and stop their search at TiVo.

True, but I posted that because he already had a Sage PC which could easily handle OTA recordings (plus good extenders for other TVs if desired), so I can see little reason to him to buy a Tivo other than ease of use. It's not like the Sage software is going to quit working anytime soon, guide data will be around for a while. Plus you can always fall back to WMC if needed.
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post #4560 of 4794
8/31/11 at 6:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KryptoNyte View Post

Dunno, zebra, still trying to figure it all out. One of the greatest challenges that any one of us faces is that once we've recorded , how do I rip that and copy it for watching on my Android phone, or pretty much anything else I want to watch it on for that matter.

C'mon man, seriously? You're running Sage but you don't know how to transcode? There are plenty of options for that, browse the HTPC forum here.
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