Why aren't there VCR like components for recording HDTV OTA ? - Page 2

It won't.

1.) I might be wrong, but I seem to remember that the JVC HM-DT100 D-VHS deck, which has an ATSC tuner, does have TVGOS.

2.) The LG may be a bit buggier than the Sony DVR, but you have to remember that of the people who post here, they are usually the ones having issues. TVGOS has worked perfectly for myself, many others here, and I'm sure thousand upon thousands of others. Ask over on the DVD recorder threads, and many people will tell you they never had any real problems with it. And if they have, 9 times out of 10, it was something they were doing wrong in the setup that they finally figured out. I have 4 units with it, which use two different host channels, and I've never had any lasting problems with any of them. They might have had a temporary issue when they sent updates to the guide, but they either cleared up quickly, or a simple reboot or reset righted them.

3.) I think the problem might have been more the cards themselves than the unit. People are reporting fewer compatability issues now with the newer cards. If you're still getting the "161-6" error, if you send the unit in before the warranty is up, they'll modify it.

4.) I don't know anything about TiVo and their possibly working in the future, but as far as units with TVGOS, they are working on a way to convert the digital info to analog so that the pre-9th generation guides can still function (you will likely have to purchase the converter box - although they are trying to get the feature inserted into the govt. subsidized boxes, too, apparently). Don't be swayed by all the negative posters in the Sony thread - TVGOS has plenty of good reason to keep all the hundreds of thousands of guides out there functionable. It is profitable now, and I'm sure they want to keep reaching as many users as possible.

LG box doesn't have TVGOS ads, and the HM-DT100 VCR only uses VCR Plus system not TVGOS. The guide system on that is using PSIP for it.

That really puzzles me. The Philips recorder has a 160GB HDD and a NTSC/ATSC/QAM tuner 1080p HDMI out and for some inexplicable reason down converts all HDTV OTA to 480i, even for passthru.
Thread here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=830253

This unit should record HDTV at the price it is sold for, all the necessary parts are already there. Hack anyone ?

For now I have the Sony HDD250 which has operated flawlessly for over a year but could become a doorstop in Feb 2009 if analog VBI TVGOS data disappears. Sure you all know the Sony is horribly crippled without the TVGOS data.

I rely on OTA DTV HDTV and do not have digital cable. Only analog. Of course the Sony records any cable programs and has become virtually indispensable by virtue of the 'rapid advance' (read commercial skip)

Here's hoping Philips or someone gets the message.

There is talk in the DVD Recorder area that some new Sony's with HD pass-through will be out soon. I still won't believe it until I actually see it.

As far as having analog cable, as long as you are getting the limited basic analogs on the line, or they are including the analog version of the host channel amidst the digitals (Comcast usually inserts it around 94-97), you should still get the guide info (and clock). And most cable companies have implied that they will probably be keeping limited basic analog around. Here in Chicago (the "test market" for dropping extended basic analog), they still have the limited analog versions available. They still want "Grandma" to be able to get at least that, lest there be a major uprising.

It's us OTA-only TVGOS'ers that are the most unsure of the future. But from what I've read, TVGOS wants to do everything they can to keep it working for all of us.

All I know is that if there's a way to keep our Sony's working, I'll find it. These things are just too darned great to let die like that .

Amen to that

Have read the entire HDD250/500 thread at one time and still visit it often to keep up on the TVGOS issue.
If Sony does bring out a new HD recorder it will probably have a BR DVD recorder in it. I can image an MSRP over $1000.

BTW I recently tracked HDD 250's on ebay. Going for +/- $300. I wonder if the buyers are aware of the potential TVGOS issue

I would not let that worry stop you, there was a tivo competitor called ReplayTV that is long gone (they only sell a PC software product now) but still provides guide service for all the existing hardware.

I went the MythTV route and get about 24 hours of guide data from the tv stations directly but I wouldn't recommend mythtv for the non linux user. If the TivoHD was $299 when I started i would have gone that route for the no brainer setup and two week guide. Hardware would have been cheaper too.

I wish Tivo would sell a one time (for a fee since the hardware sells at a loss) upgrade that would enable the user to set the time on the tivo ( you can't now) and set time based timers without guide service.

Can anyone point me to more knowledge about this 'feature' or is this only learned after letting service lapse or terminate? No way to set date/time? My searches have yielded little.

I've gotten used to date/time manual programming for my 3410a. I'm one who frequently has to reset mine and can't rely on the TVGOS. That would be a deal-breaker for me as I've been looking to upgrade.

You can not access the manual timer menu without subscription, it will tell you to subscribe. You can not set the clock but its set once a day when it calls in to download updates.

Why not just an OTA card like the TV Wonder 650. It does exactly what you want and can be used with the various PVR programs. Easy install out of the box, especially if you're using media center and aren't trying to do firewire from your cable box.

He's asking for a sub-$300 box that works like his old VCR does, except with a disk. Using media center is much more investment, in both time and money, than that.

Amazing. I guess Tivo will understand when I don't buy their model 3 or new HD then.

You"re in the extreme minority. Anyone who has used a DVR, like Tivo, will never go back to what you want. Most people used their VCRs to watch movies and couldn't even get the clock to stop blinking. There is/was a firewire HDD that would work with HDTVs tuners that supported it. The RCA DVR-2160 comes to mind. Do a search for "symbio".

Is the Sony HDD250 still being sold, or is it just another HD PVR that is no longer available?

It was discontinued more than a year ago.

The ~$260 TivoHD is the only standalone HDTV DVR still in production.

If you're actually looking for one, some people have reported still finding them new, at marked down prices at Fry's Electronics stores.

I am OTA only and have both an LG LST3410A and a Sony HDD250 and use them both constantly with little to no problems and luv 'em. I am praying I get a TVGOS update to both boxes when we go ATSC only. Please don't make me pay for Tivo. I'd rather buy a new Sony and/or LG box standalone ATSC receiver with DVR than buy a Tivo box and-plus-then-in-addition pay additional Tivo fees of hundreds and hundreds of dollars.

Digital Media has more stricter copyright laws then Analog media. That is the main reason for the slow Digital storage recording devices.

Yep, I see them frequently at the Fry's in Phoenix with a $569 price tag next to it. That store will sit on stuff forever, they still had a returned 8 hour series 1 tivo for $99 until recently.

If you don't want tivo really the only other option is PC based.

Let's see, a $600 HD-VCR or an HD-Tivo with 3 years of service for $600. Seems like a no brainer to me.

I was thinking about buying one of these to replace my VCR. I don't have a problem paying for cable, but I absolutely refuse to pay a monthly service fee to record the two (yes, TWO) shows I watch every week, when I can set them to be recorded in 30 seconds or less on my VCR.

I don't even pay for HD cable, because I only watch about 4 hours of TV a week and I feel it would be a waste of money. (I purchased a HDTV mainly to watch upscaled DVDs, Blu-Ray, and to play PS3 and Xbox 360 on.) If I purchased one of these HDD250's, and ALL I wanted to do was record 4 hours of SD programming a week from regular cable, would it suffice? Or is there a better device out there which could handle my meager (4 hours of SD recording with no service fees) needs? My PC is not anywhere near my HDTV or I'd consider a PC-based option.

Thanks for any helpful suggestions.

Heck, if all you want to do is record a few hours a week of TV in SD, just get a DVD recorder. I'd get one that records on DVD-RAM though, as that will give you more "DVR-like" abilities, like chase play. DVD-RAM'S can also be re-recorded on many more times than DVD-RW's.

Maybe even consider one with a VCR, too - although the cost of a decent DVD/VHS recorder that uses DVD-RAM's may come close to what you'd be paying for the Sony DVR if you can really acquire one of those for around $300.00. Actually, you could get the new Philips HDD/DVD recorder for less than that (it's available from Circuit City's website - although backordered. Some Walmart stores carry it, also.). It's only 480i but it upscales over HDMI to 1080p.

Just make sure anything you get has an NTSC tuner, since you're planning on using it with analog cable (you didn't mention digital SD). Probably be wise to have QAM/ATSC tuners, too. A QAM tuner in a DVD recorder will allow you to receive and display the downconverted HD broadcasts on your local channels, and those will look better than the analog versions.

Of course. if you're using a cable box, it's not really important to have any kind of built-in tuners - but they're good to have anyway, just in case you ever need to use any of them.

Thanks for responding so quickly.

It sounds like what you're recommending records onto DVDs rather than a hard drive, correct? Or do they have a small internal HDD? I'd rather go with something with a HDD than mess with recordable discs, even if it means paying more.

AFAIK there are 3 DVD burners with hard drives on the market that have digital OTA tuners but do not record or pass HD. I bought the Phillips model as a SD DVR for my bedroom tv and to burn the occasional DVD.

Nicodimus22 - Then either check out the Philips DVDR-3575H on the Circuit City website, or see if you can actually find the Sony DVR for 300 bucks like catmother says. If you have a Fry's in your area, look there for the Sony.

At least with the Sony, you'll be able to watch and record your local HD programs.

The only other decent model you may find with an HDD is the Panasonic EH75VS, which is last year's model, but it might still be found at a Circuit City store if you get lucky.

But the Panny and the Philips are SD DVR's, and the Panny only has an analog tuner.

The Polaroid HDD model that's out stinks, and the multizone Pioneer models that B&H Photo sell are pretty expensive.

Will the tivo hd recorder record OTA without a sub?

No.

Thank you, this sounds like pretty much what I was looking for. I have no cable box, I just want to replace my VCR, not pay a monthly fee, and record a few hours of SD programming each week, and this seems like it fits the bill. I'll never use most of the features on it, but as long as it does the few simple things I want it to, I'll be happy.

CC is back-ordered on it, time to begin searching for one!

One good thing about having such a unit is that you can archive stuff you want to keep to DVD. And you can edit out all the commercials on the hard drive before you watch it or transfer it.

The best thing about the Panny EH75 is that it has the TV Guide on Screen free, 8-day guide, that makes scheduling recordings very easy. You don't need to set timers - you just go into the guide and basically highlight the shows you want to record. It usually works flawlessly with analog cable or OTA. I use it with Dish, and it works great.

With the Philips, you'll have to set all timers manually. But if it's only a couple or so shows per week, and you're used to doing that with a VCR, then it shouldn't be a hassle.

I'd actually prefer to set them manually. I can see that for someone who watches 6+ hours a day and records 20 shows a week this would not be optimal though. To be honest, I sometimes have a hard time justifying paying my cable bill to myself, because I watch so little TV. I watch roughly 20 hours a month for $48. Thanks again for helping me find the device that I was looking for.