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The "Official" Denon 4308ci Owners Thread - Page 59

post #1741 of 5033
12/4/07 at 8:04am
I have updated the FW and when I check for a FW update under Options in the GUI , after the Please Wait, it comes back latest.

My question is this. If I do a reset to defaults(reset microprocessor as stated on page 60 of the manual), will this return the audio, video, HDMI settings, etc. to the factory default settings without setting the FW back to the original shipping version ??

I would like to redo a few things over but hesitate to reset if I am going to have to download the new FW again.
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post #1742 of 5033
12/4/07 at 10:17am
Resetting should just knock out all your settings. I'd be surprised if i reverted back to old firmware.
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post #1743 of 5033
12/4/07 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkam View Post

Resetting should just knock out all your settings. I'd be surprised if i reverted back to old firmware.

I hate those kind of surprises. Does anyone else know for sure?? I emailed Denon. That was a week ago. There support is rather lacking.
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post #1744 of 5033
12/4/07 at 11:41am
I hope this will make sense..

I currently have a 6.1 speaker configuration (L/R surrounds and center rear).

Due to room limitations.. all 3 are mounted on rear wall slightly facing downward above listening position.

Do I need to get 4th speaker for the back to truly take advantage of 7.1? Would it be a problem to have all 4 along the back wall since I can't mount 1 pair off to the sides?
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post #1745 of 5033
12/4/07 at 11:43am
Macroblocking

I just bought a 4308ci a week ago. I was worried about the Faroudja chip, but I figured I could just pass through the signal for non-1080p sources if needed.

When hooking up my Time Warner cable box to a Sharp LC-46D64u (1080p) directly using HDMI, the picture looks great on HD channels (both 720p and 1080i).

When I put the 4308 in between using HDMI, the picture is noticeably more grainy, and any picture areas that have subtle shading or are out-of-focus display clear macroblocking.

I tried turning the i/p scaler to "off", but no improvement. I read somewhere that people have found the Denon to degrade the signal even with the scaler off. It seems to me that the Faroudja chip is playing some role, since I wouldn't expect macroblocking for any other reason.

Denon CS has given me 3 pieces of advices:

1. The scaler should be left "on" -- this hasn't helped.

2. It's the cables -- I will try to substitute different cables, I could understand the grainy picture being poor signal quality. But the macroblocking?

3. I need professional calibration for my TV. This seems very far-fetched (and potentially expensive) if the TV was just fine with a direct signal from the cable box.

I could just bypass the receiver for the cable's video signal and just feed through the audio, but that seems like a poor workaround for such an expensive piece of equipment. One of the major benefits of getting this receiver was the ability to run a single HDMI cable to my TV.

Maybe I'm missing something on how to properly pass through the signal with absolutely no processing by the 4308?
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post #1746 of 5033
12/4/07 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckydoggy View Post

Macroblocking

I just bought a 4308ci a week ago. I was worried about the Faroudja chip, but I figured I could just pass through the signal for non-1080p sources if needed.

When hooking up my Time Warner cable box to a Sharp LC-46D64u (1080p) directly using HDMI, the picture looks great on HD channels (both 720p and 1080i).

When I put the 4308 in between using HDMI, the picture is noticeably more grainy, and any picture areas that have subtle shading or are out-of-focus display clear macroblocking.

I tried turning the i/p scaler to "off", but no improvement. I read somewhere that people have found the Denon to degrade the signal even with the scaler off. It seems to me that the Faroudja chip is playing some role, since I wouldn't expect macroblocking for any other reason.

Denon CS has given me 3 pieces of advices:

1. The scaler should be left "on" -- this hasn't helped.

2. It's the cables -- I will try to substitute different cables, I could understand the grainy picture being poor signal quality. But the macroblocking?

3. I need professional calibration for my TV. This seems very far-fetched (and potentially expensive) if the TV was just fine with a direct signal from the cable box.

I could just bypass the receiver for the cable's video signal and just feed through the audio, but that seems like a poor workaround for such an expensive piece of equipment. One of the major benefits of getting this receiver was the ability to run a single HDMI cable to my TV.

Maybe I'm missing something on how to properly pass through the signal with absolutely no processing by the 4308?


Is the Video Convert option for that input turned ON or OFF?

You can leave the scaler ON, but turn off the Video Convert option for that input.

Try that next if you have not already.

Later
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post #1747 of 5033
12/4/07 at 3:25pm
I gave up on my 4308 today. After 3 dying in my setup in 3 weeks I'm going to have to find another model. I replaced a 3806 with the 4308 because in the summer & fall I run a projector. I thought the zone 2 video would be nice but every time I connected my Series 3 up to component and powered up the Denon, smoke would come out of the top and it would die. Everything would run fine for days on HDMI but the moment I got brave and changed my TiVo over to component (component is a requirement to run a discrete vidoe source over to Zone 2) - the 4308 would die on power up.

I'd love to have this unit - it just doesn't play well with my other stuff!! Has anyone seen or heard of anything like this?
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post #1748 of 5033
12/4/07 at 3:44pm
All 3 smoked? Your either the most unlucky person in the world or there is a short somewhere within your system.
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post #1749 of 5033
12/4/07 at 3:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckelly33 View Post

I gave up on my 4308 today. After 3 dying in my setup in 3 weeks I'm going to have to find another model. I replaced a 3806 with the 4308 because in the summer & fall I run a projector. I thought the zone 2 video would be nice but every time I connected my Series 3 up to component and powered up the Denon, smoke would come out of the top and it would die. Everything would run fine for days on HDMI but the moment I got brave and changed my TiVo over to component (component is a requirement to run a discrete vidoe source over to Zone 2) - the 4308 would die on power up.

I'd love to have this unit - it just doesn't play well with my other stuff!! Has anyone seen or heard of anything like this?

Wow. Make sure you don't grab then ends of that component cable. :-)

Splotto
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post #1750 of 5033
12/4/07 at 3:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkam View Post

All 3 smoked? Your either the most unlucky person in the world or there is a short somewhere within your system.

All 3 ran fine until I pulled my HDMI from my S3 TiVo and replaced with component. It was at that point that all 3 smoked. I'd think if I had a short it would show up at some other point than when I happened to have done the same thing all three times. I have a huge Monster Poer Bar (2100) and an APC UPS connected to all as well.

The only new component in my setup (other than the 4308) was a Sima 4 speaker switcher which ran fine and wasn't even on during any of the times of failure. In a telephone discussion with Denon tech support, they acknowledged that all of my equipment (XA2, BD-30, S3 TiVo, Xbox 360) was good and hooked up fine. They even said the Sima was fine (after the third death they later said the back amp wasn't meant for a speaker selector and thought it mgiht be the the problem.) The guy at ******* thought it might be my APC UPS - since it is made for a computer. etc, etc, etc,...A ton of theories but nothing solid. One even suggested that it might be that the 4308 actually might have a problem in this area which may not have been found since most people aren't going to run a second zone for video anyway.

Who knows. I just wish it could've worked in my system. I contacted the guy who bought my 3806 on eBay (he should get it tomorrow) to see if he would sell it back. If not, I might pick up a 3808 and just use my Gefen HDMI splitter for a mirrored Zone 2 - which is what I did this summer. Discrete video woul've been nice though.
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post #1751 of 5033
12/4/07 at 4:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splotto View Post

Wow. Make sure you don't grab then ends of that component cable. :-)

Splotto

Yeah. I never correlated what had happened in the past - I put everything together so fast (the second time everything was hooked up on the first power up - and it neer worked...just smoke). Today, after running all HDMI for a few days and all was well, changing TiVo over to component -> Power up -> immediately go to input setup & change from HDMI (now disconnected) over to component 1 & optical 1, press enter and....POOF! Dead.

I guess I figured out waht the problem was...I at least wish I had tried a different cable. The guys at Denon and ******* didn't think that could be it but for a week I've been racking my brain. You think of all kinds of crazy possiblities - like when you lose your keys and out of desparation look in the trash and drawers you haven't opened in months! This sucks!

I wasted a whole week on this.
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post #1752 of 5033
12/4/07 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splotto View Post

Wow. Make sure you don't grab then ends of that component cable. :-)

Splotto

Splotto, I have a sister that lives in Sanford. I could bring it down there and let you tell me if the component cable is hot. I'm sensitive to pain but I'd love to watch you figure it out.
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post #1753 of 5033
12/4/07 at 5:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckelly33 View Post

Splotto, I have a sister that lives in Sanford. I could bring it down there and let you tell me if the component cable is hot. I'm sensitive to pain but I'd love to watch you figure it out.

LOL. I think I will pass. :-)

Splotto
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post #1754 of 5033
12/4/07 at 6:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1010 View Post

On this forum, I find that somebodies have problems in updating their firmware. Is this a common problem? The risk is high or not? If problem is encountered during firmware updating, can it be reset easily?

I just purchased a DENON 4308 two days ago, I have no problem in playing the internet radio function in 4308, this indicates that my 4308 has no problem in accessing the internet. Now I would like to updating the firmware via internet. I just would like to know the risk in doing so.

Thanks in advance for the reply.

--------------------------------------------
My HT configuration:
PS3 -> 1 m HDMI cable (no brand name) -> DENON 4308 -> 15m HDMI Cable (Tech Link) -> EPSON TW2000 -> DIY Screen (80 in diagonal, 10 feet from projector), speakers: B&W 7*M-1 + PV1

I've done 2 (real) firmware upgrades with no issues. I say "real" because there is an issue where the receiver occasionally thinks that there is a 3 minute update out there that actually updates nothing. I've been keeping tabs on the threads pertaining to these receivers since I bought my 4308 and the people having issues with firm ware updates seem to be people with wireless. I could be wrong but that is what the common thread seems to be. YMMV, but if you can go cat5 instead of wireless, I would recommend it.

I don't know if the wireless tends to introduce errors in the upgrade that the Denon is not able to gracefully recover from or what. Even though I have wireless in my house, I wired an Ethernet jack in the wall behind my TV when I remodeled my living room and slapped a switch/hub back there to hook up my PS3 and Denon to. The 100meg connection is noticeably faster when streaming things from my PC to my PS3 or Denon than when I was connected via the 54meg wireless. And I don't have to worry about any interference from other routers, phones, etc...
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post #1755 of 5033
12/4/07 at 6:34pm
I'm curious if any 4308ci owner has had the Audyssey "Pro" calibration done and what their thoughts are on those results vs the on board Audyssey XT.
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post #1756 of 5033
12/4/07 at 7:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckelly33 View Post

I gave up on my 4308 today. After 3 dying in my setup in 3 weeks I'm going to have to find another model. I replaced a 3806 with the 4308 because in the summer & fall I run a projector. I thought the zone 2 video would be nice but every time I connected my Series 3 up to component and powered up the Denon, smoke would come out of the top and it would die. Everything would run fine for days on HDMI but the moment I got brave and changed my TiVo over to component (component is a requirement to run a discrete vidoe source over to Zone 2) - the 4308 would die on power up.

I'd love to have this unit - it just doesn't play well with my other stuff!! Has anyone seen or heard of anything like this?

mine died just listening to music at a low level. Smoke and all!!

Sent it back to Denon last monday and it is supposed to be shipped out this week back to me... fixed.
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post #1757 of 5033
12/4/07 at 8:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

I'm curious if any 4308ci owner has had the Audyssey "Pro" calibration done and what their thoughts are on those results vs the on board Audyssey XT.


Ask again in January. I am getting a second JL f113 for Christmas and will have a tech over to do a Pro calibration on my 4308 and tweak my Sony VW 100.
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post #1758 of 5033
12/4/07 at 9:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gitbent67 View Post

Oh, and everytime I try to use the 4308's IP address to access the web based settings, I get asked for a user name and password from a 'device' called "GoAhead" (Not my network or router...)

I have the exact same problem. I am 100% positive that the only device on my network with the AVR's IP number is the AVR. The telnet program created by Spanky located in here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=949351 works fine, but I can not get to the Web interface on the Denon. I've tried it from three different computers on my network and they all do the same thing. Anyone else run into this? If so, how did you fix it?
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post #1759 of 5033
12/4/07 at 10:12pm
I figured out the username and password prompt. My home network situation is a bit complex but I'll post it here so anyone else with this problem will know at least one reason why the Denon prompts for a username and password. Your computer needs to be on the same subnet as the AVR. In my house I'm actually running two different subnets with a router between them. I had the AVR on my 192.168.x.x subnet and my computers are on my 10.237.x.x subnet. Once I moved the AVR to the same network my computers are on the web interface came right up without prompting me for a username and password from GoAhead. My guess is this is some type of hacker detection so people out on the Internet can't get to your AVR. I find it interesting however that the Telnet program from Spanky didn't have any connection issues going between my two subnets. You may wonder why I have two subnets in my house. Well my 10.237.x.x is actually connected to a hardware VPN device that routes back to the company I work for. All the 192.168.x.x devices are on my private home network. The router rules I’ve set allow me to cross between the two when I’m at home, but employees at work can not get to my private 192.168.x.x network.

Update: I've played with the subnet situation further and it appears that the only way to get the Web interface to work without prompting you for a username and password is to have your computer and AVR on the same class C subnet. Running a class A or B gives the same problem.
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post #1760 of 5033
12/4/07 at 11:56pm
Can you output hdmi to zone 2?
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post #1761 of 5033
12/5/07 at 12:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kansashick View Post

Ask again in January. I am getting a second JL f113 for Christmas and will have a tech over to do a Pro calibration on my 4308 and tweak my Sony VW 100.


Thanks, I'm hoping that by January I'll have done that myself. I have the Integra DTC-9.8 and the "Pro" software isn't ready for it yet like it is for the 4308. I was just trying to get some idea of the difference in advance. We're kind of debating the XT vs Pro issue in another thread.
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post #1762 of 5033
12/5/07 at 4:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mauiguy100 View Post

Can you output hdmi to zone 2?

only in a 'mirrored fashion', you cannot have a discrete video signal in each zone unless you use component in Zone 2.
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post #1763 of 5033
12/5/07 at 4:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Netko350Z View Post

mine died just listening to music at a low level. Smoke and all!!

Sent it back to Denon last monday and it is supposed to be shipped out this week back to me... fixed.

Did they say what the problem was? This all seems a bit fragile for a $2500 piece of equipment.
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post #1764 of 5033
12/5/07 at 8:45pm
I picked up a 3808 today from BB. We'll soon have the problem narrowed down at least. I hooked it up tonight and used it with everything connected to HDMI. Everything worked fine (as with the 4308) with everything via HDMI. I'm firmware updating tonight then tomorrow night when I switch my TiVo over to component we'll see if it survives. The crapping thing has to go back anyway since the sound from the left post sounds like it is vibrating out of some tin can. I though it was my speaker at first but when I switched speakers, so did the distortion. Is Denon QC on vacation or is God trying to tell me to stop upgrading?

Anyway, if it smokes - definately my equipment, if it doesn't -it's the 4308 (or at least the 4308 in combination with my setup). To be honest I kinda hope its my TiVo - maybe changing it out will allow my to keep that beautiful 4308!

One upside - I'm very fast at hooking these up now!
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post #1765 of 5033
12/5/07 at 9:16pm
How high is the volume on your 4308 to get to normal listening level? I just got new 4308 and hooked up to new B&W805s bookshelves. To get volume to normal listening level I am between -40 and -30 depending on source. Is that normal? Kids are asleep so i haven't really cranked it to see how high it goes but is -40 to -30 normal?

MC
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post #1766 of 5033
12/5/07 at 9:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcuilla View Post

How high is the volume on your 4308 to get to normal listening level? I just got new 4308 and hooked up to new B&W805s bookshelves. To get volume to normal listening level I am between -40 and -30 depending on source. Is that normal? Kids are asleep so i haven't really cranked it to see how high it goes but is -40 to -30 normal?

This all depends on the sensitivity of your speakers.

On my 3808, I watch Blu-ray disks at around -20. I watch most TV in the -20 to -30 range.
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post #1767 of 5033
12/6/07 at 3:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

This all depends on the sensitivity of your speakers.

On my 3808, I watch Blu-ray disks at around -20. I watch most TV in the -20 to -30 range.

Depends mostly on distance to speakers, room volume and evenmore important sensitivity of your speakers. Normal listening in my case is -25, movies at -15, I never went louder than -12. (using 4308)
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post #1768 of 5033
12/6/07 at 3:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim.womble View Post

I figured out the username and password prompt. My home network situation is a bit complex but I'll post it here so anyone else with this problem will know at least one reason why the Denon prompts for a username and password. Your computer needs to be on the same subnet as the AVR. In my house I'm actually running two different subnets with a router between them. I had the AVR on my 192.168.x.x subnet and my computers are on my 10.237.x.x subnet. Once I moved the AVR to the same network my computers are on the web interface came right up without prompting me for a username and password from GoAhead. My guess is this is some type of hacker detection so people out on the Internet can't get to your AVR. I find it interesting however that the Telnet program from Spanky didn't have any connection issues going between my two subnets. You may wonder why I have two subnets in my house. Well my 10.237.x.x is actually connected to a hardware VPN device that routes back to the company I work for. All the 192.168.x.x devices are on my private home network. The router rules I've set allow me to cross between the two when I'm at home, but employees at work can not get to my private 192.168.x.x network.

Update: I've played with the subnet situation further and it appears that the only way to get the Web interface to work without prompting you for a username and password is to have your computer and AVR on the same class C subnet. Running a class A or B gives the same problem.

Have you done any testing with classless subnetting? For example, having your VPN subnet as 10.237.x.0/25, with the AVR on 10.237.x.128/25. That would restrict the number of available IPs slightly, but I doubt that you'll have a need for more than 126 hosts for either your private net or VPN net. I suspect that the AVR would be tricked into believing that everything fell into the same subnet, even though it wouldn't, and it would keep your private net separate from your VPN net. The one thing to keep in mind is that you would just need to avoid assigning 10.237.x.128/25 to anything on your work net, or else you would definitely run into strange routing issues.
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post #1769 of 5033
12/6/07 at 4:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcuilla View Post

How high is the volume on your 4308 to get to normal listening level? I just got new 4308 and hooked up to new B&W805s bookshelves. To get volume to normal listening level I am between -40 and -30 depending on source. Is that normal? Kids are asleep so i haven't really cranked it to see how high it goes but is -40 to -30 normal?

MC

Hello:

On mine generally XBOX and PS3 run about 40-45; Cable TV around 35; and DVD's run around 25-30.

I have 5.1 with HSU bookshelves and center speaker and an HSU sub.

Distance from the speakers is about 12 feet.

Splotto
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post #1770 of 5033
12/6/07 at 4:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcuilla View Post

How high is the volume on your 4308 to get to normal listening level? I just got new 4308 and hooked up to new B&W805s bookshelves. To get volume to normal listening level I am between -40 and -30 depending on source. Is that normal? Kids are asleep so i haven't really cranked it to see how high it goes but is -40 to -30 normal?

MC

There are numerous factors that affect this. First, how effecient are the speakers, and the room acoustics and size. My room is about 16 by 14 and I have 7.1 Klipsch Ref 35 set up with SVS sub. Using audio meter to get 75db I am around -20 I believe and that is where usaully watch movies and TV, although my Dish HD-DVR has lower volumes so I tend t drive it to -15. I also love to be imersed in my movies so I tend to play them loud, not crazy loud, but loud enough so the sub rattles the windows. Ironically though when I did A/B testing at BB deciding between the 3808 and 4308 I thought I had all the settinsg the same and the 4308 was noticably louder at same volume settinsg as the 3808.
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