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The "Official" Denon 4308ci Owners Thread - Page 9

post #241 of 5085
I don't understand why the whole PIP argument is even an issue?

Can't you just connect your zone 1 (HDMI) to 1 input of your TV and zone 2 (Component) to the other input, and voila, PIP?

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #242 of 5085
New one in the house...

My 4308 showed up yesterday. The install was a bit longer than usual due to some rack mods, so it was too late last night (this morning, actually) to post anything, but here are some first impressions.

Asthetics are nice. Softer lines and the clean front face look very nice in an exposed rack. About an inch taller than the previous 4306 and noticeably taller the Yamaha 2700 and Pioneer 82TXV that I have been using on loan for the past few weeks.

New and improved menus and GUI are better looking, and the "tree" structure is not uncommon now, but be very sure, this receiver is more difficult to set up completely than the 4306, or most other receivers of this type that I have played with. Perhaps "difficult" is the wrong word. Maybe, "complex" would be a better choice. Lots more stuff, lots more settings. Most of it a very nice addition over previous model.

Actual shakedown time was limted last night. Overall, about two hours doing both audio and video sources. I do have a few more specific things to check this evening, but a few points on the scaler. It works really well. It is deinterlacing 1080i sources to 1080p. It also will deinterlace upscaled PAL source to 1080p50. The PAL DVD I looked at sourced on the Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi looked very, very good.

Scaling can be selected or deselcted by source. I really like that. I set interlaced or SD sources to scale and deselect scaling for 1080p sources.

Dual HDMI outs work like a champ. No HDCP handshake issues as yet. I did not have a chance to check how the dual HDMI outs will handle two different displays with 1080p24. That's on the agenda for this evening.

Sound quality is exceptional. I happen to be a fan of the Audyssey room correction system and this new implementation is obviously as good or better than the previous version in the 4306. I haven't had the 4306 in my system for a few weeks since selling it so a direct comparison is not possible. All I can say is both music and movies sound as good as I've ever heard in my room.

I won't even get into the networking features and things like Internet radio and HD radio other than to say using a hardwired ethernet setting up the network features was almost a complete no-brainer. One of the easiest network devices I've ever set up. It does almost everything by itself, which is a good thing because I know a lot more about audio and video than I do about computers and networks.

Bottom line, I am extremely pleased with the upgrade the 4308CI is compared to the 4306.
post #243 of 5085
Thanks. That's an excellent first impression review.
post #244 of 5085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert George View Post

New one in the house...

My 4308 showed up yesterday. The install was a bit longer than usual due to some rack mods, so it was too late last night (this morning, actually) to post anything, but here are some first impressions.

Asthetics are nice. Softer lines and the clean front face look very nice in an exposed rack. About an inch taller than the previous 4306 and noticeably taller the Yamaha 2700 and Pioneer 82TXV that I have been using on loan for the past few weeks.

New and improved menus and GUI are better looking, and the "tree" structure is not uncommon now, but be very sure, this receiver is more difficult to set up completely than the 4306, or most other receivers of this type that I have played with. Perhaps "difficult" is the wrong word. Maybe, "complex" would be a better choice. Lots more stuff, lots more settings. Most of it a very nice addition over previous model.

Actual shakedown time was limted last night. Overall, about two hours doing both audio and video sources. I do have a few more specific things to check this evening, but a few points on the scaler. It works really well. It is deinterlacing 1080i sources to 1080p. It also will deinterlace upscaled PAL source to 1080p50. The PAL DVD I looked at sourced on the Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi looked very, very good.

Scaling can be selected or deselcted by source. I really like that. I set interlaced or SD sources to scale and deselect scaling for 1080p sources.

Dual HDMI outs work like a champ. No HDCP handshake issues as yet. I did not have a chance to check how the dual HDMI outs will handle two different displays with 1080p24. That's on the agenda for this evening.

Sound quality is exceptional. I happen to be a fan of the Audyssey room correction system and this new implementation is obviously as good or better than the previous version in the 4306. I haven't had the 4306 in my system for a few weeks since selling it so a direct comparison is not possible. All I can say is both music and movies sound as good as I've ever heard in my room.

I won't even get into the networking features and things like Internet radio and HD radio other than to say using a hardwired ethernet setting up the network features was almost a complete no-brainer. One of the easiest network devices I've ever set up. It does almost everything by itself, which is a good thing because I know a lot more about audio and video than I do about computers and networks.

Bottom line, I am extremely pleased with the upgrade the 4308CI is compared to the 4306.

Thanks for the feedback. Can you notice a different between your display deinterlacing 1080i and the Denon deinterlacing 1080i? I have a Sony A2000 and I am wondering if the Denon would be an improvement with 1080i to 1080p.

Thanks again!
post #245 of 5085
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

I justed called Denon tech support to tell them about some of the issues I was having and I must say it was some of the worst customer service I have ever got from a company. Here is the way the call went after waiting on hold for 30 mins, and then going through all of the their questions about where I bought it to prove I bought it from a proper reseller.

...

I got off the phone wondering why I am a DenonLover? I just bought a $2500 amp from a company who doesn't really seem to care if I am having any probems?! I need to tell you, I am a little upset right now.... After over 1 hour on the phone they did NOTHING to help me or test the unit in any way.

That's not good.

The good news for me is their HQ/service center are 10 minutes away. I can just sit in their lobby until they find someone that can help me.

Still can't decide between the Denon and Onkyo (not to mention the Sony that keeps looking better and better).
post #246 of 5085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_Davis View Post

Still can't decide between the Denon and Onkyo (not to mention the Sony that keeps looking better and better).

You and me both Jay! They all look very good and each has their own virtues. The Sony wasn't even on my radar until I saw the review and features.
post #247 of 5085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

You and me both Jay! They all look very good and each has their own virtues. The Sony wasn't even on my radar until I saw the review and features.

I've already got mine ordered, I had the 4306 and wanted to get the 4308 but for a grand less I decided to get the Sony. I was really happy with the last sony avr I owned and still own. (DA4ES)
post #248 of 5085
i'm now stuck between the denon 4308, onkyo 905, and a comparable yamaha model (if i cant make up my mind before the yamaha drops then i most likely will go with yamaha).

can anybody tell me why the denon 4308 would be better then the onkyo 905? i just cant decide and im ready to pull the trigger. i wish i never looked into the onkyo the other day but hey guess that is a good regret to have.
post #249 of 5085
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwock5 View Post

I don't understand why the whole PIP argument is even an issue?

Can't you just connect your zone 1 (HDMI) to 1 input of your TV and zone 2 (Component) to the other input, and voila, PIP?


Yes, you could probably do that if you have a AVR that also supports a component output of a different source on zone 2 at the same time as HDMI. And also providing the TV allow PIP from more than one external input, some TV's require one of the two PIP sources to be from it's own internal tuner.
post #250 of 5085
I know the Denon lets you output 2 different sources from HDMI and component, just not 2 different ones on it's HDMI 1 and 2.

So, all you need is a TV that will accept inputs from HDMI and component and combine them.
post #251 of 5085
Quote:
Originally Posted by bboncorr1 View Post

i'm now stuck between the denon 4308, onkyo 905, and a comparable yamaha model (if i cant make up my mind before the yamaha drops then i most likely will go with yamaha).

can anybody tell me why the denon 4308 would be better then the onkyo 905? i just cant decide and im ready to pull the trigger. i wish i never looked into the onkyo the other day but hey guess that is a good regret to have.

Here are some differences between the 2 units. CLICK HERE
post #252 of 5085
Does anybody know if any Denon receiver will work Panasonic EZ-Synch protocol? I currently own latest TX50-PZ750U model, and I would like to control my receiver (soon to be 4308) using this EZ-Synch. I know I can pre-program my RC and then switch, however my A/V rack is in the back corner of living room and not in front of my plasma therefore I would have to point RC all over the place. EZ-Synch would allow me to point strait into TV and control basic function of my receiver, DVD Player etc.

BTW, all latest Onkyo Receivers do work with EZ-Sych and I wanted to see if Denon plays here as well.
post #253 of 5085
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

Here are some differences between the 2 units. CLICK HERE


f'ing thanks. that was exactly what i hoped someone would come with. looks like other then wifi the onkyo has better options. now i wonder what the sound quality difference will be. one thing i dont want to sacrafice is sound quality for features. that why im still holding out hope yamaha will give some info soon (that will keep me at bay maybe long enough to not make a quick purchase).

HD radio is a good feature and im glad to see more receivers pick that up.
post #254 of 5085
Can anyone confirm if either the Onkyo 905, Integra 9.8 or the Denon 4308 are Audyssey "Pro" compatible or not?
post #255 of 5085
I just got an email from J&R that my Denon 4308ci was shipped today. Looks like it will be here next Wednesday (I am on the west coast). I have a Sony 1080p TV, Denon 2930ci, Xbox Elite, PS3, Wii, Tivo S3 and HQV disks for Blu-ray, HD-DVD and NTSC. So I should be able to test a lot of things on this receiver.

Hopefully others will get theirs before me and post since I won't be able to do anything until that following weekend. Hmm.. might need to take a day off
post #256 of 5085
Quote:
Originally Posted by bboncorr1 View Post


can anybody tell me why the denon 4308 would be better then the onkyo 905? i just cant decide and im ready to pull the trigger. i wish i never looked into the onkyo the other day but hey guess that is a good regret to have.

If the features are comperable, I will go with Denon because I have confidence in their quality. The onkyo speaker pops may show up in other models besides the 605/805 and would drive me crazy and I don't want to be returning my purchase multiple times. These devices are pretty complex and the specs and manuals are often subject to interpretation. Even after reading the specs and manuals I sometimes find some feature operates differently than I expect. I think Denon products are more likely to meet my expectations.
post #257 of 5085
The Onkyo amp are too bright and with horns I have found them way to bright. The Denon amps seem much more musical to me. Features are important but sound quality is paramount.
post #258 of 5085
Hi guys!
I have one question: is there any poping-sound or a unwanted sound-signal if you use a PS3 with a HDMI-connection at the 4308 like the ps3-onkyo-poping-sound?
A short yes or no will be fantastic! Thanks for your answers and greetings from germany!
post #259 of 5085
Question. I'm assuming this will apply to both the 4308ci and 3808ci.

If I hook up a device via HDMI, say a Blu-Ray player. I then have the receiver do the audio decoding for the sound. I have a second receiver in another room I'd like to send that audio too. Can I use the optical output on the Denon to send that audio? Or can it only be transmitted via HDMI?
post #260 of 5085
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

The Onkyo amp are too bright and with horns I have found them way to bright. The Denon amps seem much more musical to me. Features are important but sound quality is paramount.

I'm glad someone is talking about the SOUND of receivers again. Everyone knows that Denon has a reputation for superior sound. Not Onkyo...
post #261 of 5085
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bapenguin View Post

Question. I'm assuming this will apply to both the 4308ci and 3808ci.

If I hook up a device via HDMI, say a Blu-Ray player. I then have the receiver do the audio decoding for the sound. I have a second receiver in another room I'd like to send that audio too. Can I use the optical output on the Denon to send that audio? Or can it only be transmitted via HDMI?

-> Make certain that your Blu-Ray player can pass the native bitstream signal to the 4308 for decoding. I have a Toshiba XA2 HD-DVD player, and it will not. It has the decoding on-board, so all it passes to the receiver is Multi-Channel Digital. The receiver's decoders never come into play.

-> There is a Zone 4 Optical connection that you can use to route the audio to another receiver input
post #262 of 5085
I have a question. I too am looking to replace my Denon 5700 and the 4308 looks like the right piece to do it with. what I would like to know is I only have component in on my tv. So could I use hdmi for the audio side of everything giving me true DTS & DD for my audio and use the components for my video side.
Thanks Allen
post #263 of 5085
ok i know i have been going back and forth between denon and onkyo but now im just gonna stick with a brand known for better sound quality (and those onkyo owners getting popping from speakers sure did help to sway me). so here is my new question,

where can i buy one? if somone knows a site with low prices send me a p.m. or something before i go and change my mind again .
post #264 of 5085
Quote:
Originally Posted by DVRDude View Post

-> Make certain that your Blu-Ray player can pass the native bitstream signal to the 4308 for decoding. I have a Toshiba XA2 HD-DVD player, and it will not. It has the decoding on-board, so all it passes to the receiver is Multi-Channel Digital. The receiver's decoders never come into play.

-> There is a Zone 4 Optical connection that you can use to route the audio to another receiver input

I plan to use the Zone4 optical to do just that.

So basically if it passes it already decoded, I'm SOL? Or could I force the receiver to do some extra processing on it so it'll output it via optical?
post #265 of 5085
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bapenguin View Post

So basically if it passes it already decoded, I'm SOL?

Yep. I have been bugging Toshiba over the last couple of days to see if they will be releasing a firmware update that gives me the choice of the internal Toshiba decoders, or passing the native bitstream to the 4308 for decoding. I would like to do an A<->B comparison to see which decoder I like better. So far, the word back from Toshiba is not encouraging. When I get my Blu-Ray player, I will definitely research this ability thoroughly.
post #266 of 5085
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DekPM19 View Post

I have a question. I too am looking to replace my Denon 5700 and the 4308 looks like the right piece to do it with. what I would like to know is I only have component in on my tv. So could I use hdmi for the audio side of everything giving me true DTS & DD for my audio and use the components for my video side.
Thanks Allen

I'm not certain of the connectivity of the devices that you want to connect to the 4308 but keep in mind, there is Component in to HDMI out, but no HDMI in to Component out. So if your device can simultaneously produce Video on Component and Video/Audio on HDMI, you should be able to use the HDMI source for audio only. Don't know if there will be any delay related issues though. Also, as I posted for another AVS member, if your HD/Blu-Ray Player will not pass the native audio bitstream, you will not be able to use the 4308's internal decoders. My player insists on doing the decoding internally and passing the decoded multi-channel audio output through the HDMI to the receiver.
post #267 of 5085
I went to look at the 4308 yesterday, one thing that really threw me off was the main remotes plastic screen. It's really cheap looking, it's got a cheap plastic cover over the buttons with what appears to be a indeglo type layer in between. Pushing on the screen it felt like I was going to break it, I could see it wearing out from repeated use. The atkis remote I got with my current 4802 denon while really large is alot more solid with a much nicer glass touch screen.

I only got to hear it for a few minutes, it sounded nice but hard to tell if it's any better than the 4802 without getting it home to compare.
post #268 of 5085
I wasn't expecting the 4308 to be about an inch taller than the previous model. If I take the 4 legs of the bottom of the receiver it will fit in my tv stand. I may be able to use smaller legs on the bottom. Are there any vents on the bottom that require the receiver to be elevated. Has any body else run into this problem, anybody have a solution.
post #269 of 5085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trigger1 View Post

I went to look at the 4308 yesterday, one thing that really threw me off was the main remotes plastic screen. It's really cheap looking, it's got a cheap plastic cover over the buttons with what appears to be a indeglo type layer in between. Pushing on the screen it felt like I was going to break it, I could see it wearing out from repeated use. The atkis remote I got with my current 4802 denon while really large is alot more solid with a much nicer glass touch screen.

I only got to hear it for a few minutes, it sounded nice but hard to tell if it's any better than the 4802 without getting it home to compare.

Yeah I totally hated that remote when I had the 4306 - crappy at best.
post #270 of 5085
Well, I'm getting some serious doubts about this receiver. Now with the 3808 manual out and it basically using the same charts and wording as the 4308 manual, it looks like what that manual says is the best info we have other than the people actually getting their hands on it and experimenting.

The biggest concern is what it can do video-wise. From the various parts of the manual, I see these limitations (i'm not worrying about s-video or lower signals):
- HDMI signal can not be converted to analog signals
- 1080p component signals can only be output to component
- HDMI: Video signals are not output if the input video signals do not match the monitor's resoultion.
- It is not possible to convert 1080i signals into 720p format
- It is not possible to convert 720p signals into 1080i format
- Color space does not have an "auto" setting so will it force RGB to YCbCR even if the TV can handle either?
- The "RGB Range" has an "enhanced" setting, but no description of what it does
I also can't figure out what the chart on page 83 of the manual is telling me. Apparently some combinations don't allow the on-screen menu to work.

I also don't see anything telling me simple stuff like whether or not it will convert an 1080i over HDMI input to a 1080p HDMI output, does it have a zoom mode for standard def signals, does it handle anamorphic signals properly, etc. Very confusing.

I also see a conflicting note about audo output on the HDMI connector. The two notes are:
- No audio signals are output from the HDMI monitor output connector. To play the sound by monitor, make analog or digital audio output connections to monitor's audio input connectors.
- The audio signals output from the HDMI connectors are only the HDMI input signals. Video-converted HDMI signals are not included in the audio signals.
So, does it output audio on HDMI or not? It seems like it can if you set the menu item, but it leaves me having no idea what these two notes mean.

Any tests our new owners can do to determine exactly what this thing can and can't do would be very helpful.
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