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The "Official" Denon 4308ci Owners Thread - Page 138

post #4111 of 5033
9/10/09 at 12:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post

so far it's been working, i had it on for 6-8 hrs straight playing content last nite (even though i fell asleep lol).

so, i'm going to leave a 4-5" clearance from top of the AVR to the next cabinet level. i still space to store things. i can't leave it completely wide open =P.

as for the source thing, i need to play around w/it =P. seems like there are settings that making it automaticallys elect video inputs per source.

you it crank up with 5 or 6 channel music, and you'll be able to roast chestnuts on top of that unit. i feel that if a unit has to go into protection mode, there is a potential to damage it. i'd run a fan connected to the switched outlet of the unit. your unit will also sound smoother at reference levels if it's not running hot.
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post #4112 of 5033
9/10/09 at 3:33pm
Anyone know if Radiodenon Server is down? I haven't been able to connect to internet radio for last few hours . thanks
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post #4113 of 5033
9/10/09 at 8:37pm
yeah it's pretty roasty i have 7.1 connected to it =P. been blasting for the last few hrs going through my BDs =).

i have a question, whenever i play any surround sound content, i see Diag. Norm -4.

can i disable dialogue normalization in my AVR? i've already searched through the manual turned off all dynamic compression. i've also turned off all that stuff on my Panasonic BD35K.
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post #4114 of 5033
9/10/09 at 10:10pm
just read through the manual, very confused by the SB-out option. i have 7.1 speaker setup connected. Panasonic BD35K again via HDMI.

under the setup menu:
-parameters
-audio
-surround parameters
-SB

under SB there are:
-non matrix
-off
-es matrix
-PL IIx Cinema
-PL IIx Music

my AFDM is on. in the manual, it looks like AFDM is used to detect the flags of the lossy codecs:
-DTS-ES 6.1 both matrixed and discrete
-Dolby Surround EX

outside of that, if there are no flags (Dolby EX for example) u have to turn it off to utilize EX 6.1 setup. from the sounds of it, it will not automatically detect flags of DTS-HD MA 7.1 and TrueHD 7.1 codecs. i have a handful of those discs that i tested already, no go =P.

what i mean is that it will detect it in the input signal, but it won't automatically select the proper # of channels per source.

so here are my questions:
-when i select non-matrix, i see the surround back pair of speakers are lit on the front panel are still lit EVEN when i play 5.1 material only. does this option basically mean it's fed power from the AVR but not fed any signals if there aren't any? when i play 5.1, it is "not matrixed" so i'm not supposed to hear anything from the rear back pair yeah? but i actually do on 5.1 setups. so what the hell does this mean then?
-the rest of the options are pretty self explanatory and i'm fine with how to use those.

this is what i want to happen:
* when i play 5.1 ONLY material, i want 5.1 setup to play that back.
* when i play 6.1 or 7.1 material, i want 7.1 setup to come alive and kick in.

the auto select is supposed to deal with this, but it doesn't. it only deals w/if stereo LPCM or analog comes in what surround options are selected per source and that's it. it doesn't deal w/6.1 or 7.1 auto selection very well.

am i getting all this correct? please correct me if i'm wrong =P
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post #4115 of 5033
9/11/09 at 1:36pm
I bought a used Denon 4308 a few months ago but haven't used it yet. I'm now getting quotes for in wall speakers for a 5.1 setup. I was all set to get the Triad Silver LCR speakers, but a local installer just advised against those. His reasoning is because the Denon 4308 "cannot handle a 4 ohm load. It can barely handle a 6 ohm load, the LCR line from Triad actually runs at 3.2 ohm. Your amplifier cannot would not survive this kind of abuse."

Is this true? Any advice?
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post #4116 of 5033
9/11/09 at 7:07pm
I have a 4308 and have major handshake issues with my new htpc. I am connecting my htpc via ati hd4890 to asus xonar slim to denon 4308 to rs1 projector.

I have the hdmi to port 4 which is dvr, this has been suggested by others.

The problems I am having are:

1. When booting htpc, it is not showing the computer through boot process. It shows "Frequency of input signal out of range" on the screen.

2. When I finally am into windows 7, I run my movies, and there is a handshake. I then choose a movie, handshake again. If I close a window or minimize a window another handshake. Very, very frustrating.

Are there any settings that I am missing somewhere?

Could it be the hdmi cable?

thanks

Jim
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post #4117 of 5033
9/12/09 at 5:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltzonice View Post

I bought a used Denon 4308 a few months ago but haven't used it yet. I'm now getting quotes for in wall speakers for a 5.1 setup. I was all set to get the Triad Silver LCR speakers, but a local installer just advised against those. His reasoning is because the Denon 4308 "cannot handle a 4 ohm load. It can barely handle a 6 ohm load, the LCR line from Triad actually runs at 3.2 ohm. Your amplifier cannot would not survive this kind of abuse."

Is this true? Any advice?

I have 3 Triad Silver Inroom LCRs and 2 Bronze Inwall Surrounds and I've never had any issues with my 4308, which I've owned for almost 2 years.
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post #4118 of 5033
9/12/09 at 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltzonice View Post

I bought a used Denon 4308 a few months ago but haven't used it yet. I'm now getting quotes for in wall speakers for a 5.1 setup. I was all set to get the Triad Silver LCR speakers, but a local installer just advised against those. His reasoning is because the Denon 4308 "cannot handle a 4 ohm load. It can barely handle a 6 ohm load, the LCR line from Triad actually runs at 3.2 ohm. Your amplifier cannot would not survive this kind of abuse."

Is this true? Any advice?

What you want to get is a chart over how the impedance varies on the triads. And also a question your local installer for giving a blanket statement like that. But yeah, the triad speakers seem like a rather heavy load, so i would also consider other options on speakers.

Even a 2308 seem to give beyond 150w(up to 190w) at 4ohm with 2 channels driven. So 4 ohm isnt really a problem. But still, it depends on alot of things, how large is the room, how many speakers, exactly how hard is the triads to drive, crossovers and powered subwoofers, what material, etc.

That said, trying the 4308 to see how far it goes is rather easy, and getting more power for a few channels is rather easy by adding on a powerblock, look at emotiva or rotel or similar for some very decent value.
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post #4119 of 5033
9/14/09 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mskreis View Post

I have 3 Triad Silver Inroom LCRs and 2 Bronze Inwall Surrounds and I've never had any issues with my 4308, which I've owned for almost 2 years.

Thanks for your response! Just out of curiousity, how large is your room? I'm putting this setup in my Great Room, which is huge -- about 20x30 feet and also vaulted ceilings which is about 19 feet at the highest point. Did your installer mention anything about the potential issues with the Denon and the Triad Silvers?
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post #4120 of 5033
9/14/09 at 12:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphasia View Post

What you want to get is a chart over how the impedance varies on the triads. And also a question your local installer for giving a blanket statement like that. But yeah, the triad speakers seem like a rather heavy load, so i would also consider other options on speakers.

Even a 2308 seem to give beyond 150w(up to 190w) at 4ohm with 2 channels driven. So 4 ohm isnt really a problem. But still, it depends on alot of things, how large is the room, how many speakers, exactly how hard is the triads to drive, crossovers and powered subwoofers, what material, etc.

That said, trying the 4308 to see how far it goes is rather easy, and getting more power for a few channels is rather easy by adding on a powerblock, look at emotiva or rotel or similar for some very decent value.

My installer was going to add a Russound Amp anyway, for Zone 3 audio. If I add something like an Emotiva to the Denon, would that suffice to serve both as the 3rd zone amp and perhaps drive the larger speakers? My husband is going to call the installer later today to ask, but would like to hear your answer as well. Thanks for the advice.
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post #4121 of 5033
9/14/09 at 3:36pm
It depends on what speakers you go with for the other Zones. With something easier to drive, no problem at all. But as i said, depending on your room size, etc, the 4308 might work just fine for everything. Havent looked how the amp can assign amps for the other zones though, so you might have to use pre-outs and a medium range multichannel amp for the secondary zones and only use the built in amps for the main, depending on your arrangement like 5.1 or 7.1, etc.


Personally, before i got my 4308a, i had a Yamaha that i used together with a Rotel RB-1080. And that decision is nothing i changed when getting the 4308, although it does have more power and a much better pre-out stage than my old Yamaha (rx-v2600). In part it was to always be sure to have enough power for my fronts, but also so the rest of the speakers could be fed from the receiver properly and not having to deal with the fronts at all. That said, the Rotel has alot more power then most receivers. Havent heard the Emotive myself, since they are only on import, but there seem to be quite a few emotiva fans around.
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post #4122 of 5033
9/14/09 at 6:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltzonice View Post

Thanks for your response! Just out of curiousity, how large is your room? I'm putting this setup in my Great Room, which is huge -- about 20x30 feet and also vaulted ceilings which is about 19 feet at the highest point. Did your installer mention anything about the potential issues with the Denon and the Triad Silvers?

My room is only 15x12 and no vaulted ceilings. I have never had to increase the volume on my 4308 above -15 db. With a room your size I don't know how the 4308 will handle the Triads. That said I love my 4308 and would not hesitate to add an external amp if needed.
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post #4123 of 5033
9/15/09 at 1:27pm
my room is 14x12ish (very tiny) and i usually go w/+10 and more often. yesh i think i mite be half deaf


jlenz, i recommend you make sure the HDMI scaling is turned OFF for hdmi#4 or that source input. i'd try that first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlenz View Post

Could it be the hdmi cable?

thanks

Jim
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post #4124 of 5033
9/15/09 at 1:52pm
Thanks, Aphasia and mskreis, for your responses! I just found this from the Denon website FAQ, so I think I'll be OK!
Quote:


Question
Can I use 4 ohm loudspeakers with my Denon receiver or power amplifier?

Answer
Yes you can.
To understand this a bit better, first realize that all amplifiers are designed to deliver a signal into an electrical "load" or resistance presented by the loudspeaker. We measure resistance in units called "ohms" (after the German physicist Georg Simon Ohm, 1787-1854).

Conventional wisdom makes an 8 ohm loudspeaker load the most acceptable because it "protects" the amplifier from delivering too much current. A 4 ohm loudspeaker can encourage a marginally designed amplifier to deliver more current than it comfortably can.

However, you should remember that a loudspeaker's impedance rating is a nominal or average one: A speaker rated at 8 ohms may actually vary from 5 (sometimes even less) to 20 ohms or higher, depending on the frequency at which you measure the impedance. We call this reactance. (Don't worry about this too much -- good speaker engineers are well aware of these variations and take them into consideration when designing products.)

In general, you'll find that Denon products are designed to function with a wide variety of loudspeakers and have power supplies and output circuitry more than able to meet the current demands of low impedance loads. If using 4 ohm rated speakers, common sense should always be taken as to the volume level setting, as it is easier to overdrive or "clip" an amplifier with 4 ohm speakers than with speakers with a rating of 6~16 ohms.

In the rare event that very low impedances tax the amplifier, quick acting circuitry will protect it from damage. If unusual operating conditions trigger this circuitry, the word "PROTECTION" will appear on the unit's front panel. If this happens, simply turn the unit off, wait a moment or two, and turn the unit back on again. The protection circuitry will automatically reset. If it re-engages, check your system for possible malfunctions such as intermittently shorting speaker wires, damage speaker drivers or it may be as simple as turning the volume down a little as not to cause the amplifier(s) to go into protection due to overdriving them.
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post #4125 of 5033
9/15/09 at 4:58pm
I got a denon 4308ci not to long ago and 2 mythos sts's and it doesn't seem to sound as clear as my other 2 receivers. I have gone into the gui and clicked on tone defeat witch allowed me to change bass and treble. the treble is maxed out at 6. Then I also changed the equalizer but when I move it around it seems to have no effect, neither does the screen brightness or the other tv adjustments thought the receiver. everything else works just fine though. I just feel it should sound just a little clearer. I was wondering if ther was something I had to do before the equalizer can take effect?
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post #4126 of 5033
9/15/09 at 6:19pm
How come the Denon 4308 web controller is soooo slow? I'm using the Net/Audio to play songs from Twonky media server. I have about 8000 songs. It takes forever to scroll and page down to find a song. The search isn't any quicker. How come twonky media sever on PS3 scrolls down and changes songs instantly?? is this a Denon 4308 defect?
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post #4127 of 5033
9/15/09 at 7:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltzonice View Post

Thanks, Aphasia and mskreis, for your responses! I just found this from the Denon website FAQ, so I think I'll be OK!

Good information - thanks for the update.
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post #4128 of 5033
9/16/09 at 1:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha Sixx View Post

Then I also changed the equalizer but when I move it around it seems to have no effect, neither does the screen brightness or the other tv adjustments thought the receiver. everything else works just fine though. I just feel it should sound just a little clearer. I was wondering if ther was something I had to do before the equalizer can take effect?

You have to set the Room EQ to "Manual EQ" before the settings have any effect.

Have you instead tried setting up Audyssey in your room first ? It does wonders for calming poor acoustics and things. See the Audyssey thread for lots more info...
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post #4129 of 5033
9/17/09 at 2:37pm
I just picked one of these up from Onecall. They had a good price on open box units. When my 4308 arrived today, I was very surprised to get a brand new unit! Sweet!
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post #4130 of 5033
9/18/09 at 6:59am
i've had this for a few weeks and while my question asked above didn't get answered yet, i still luv this receiver!!! =). it is so incredible in EVERYWAY! i haven't had time to do the Audyssey calibrations but my goodness the direct, stereo and various standard modes are so damn awesome. there is also so much juice that my speakers are finally being fully realized and coming alive =).
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post #4131 of 5033
9/19/09 at 3:09pm
was watching Gladiator BD w/DTS-HD MA 5.1 and my AVR-4308ci had a LOUD popping sound on the rear left!

i'm using the latest firmware on my AVR and latest firmware on my Panasonic BD35K.

my speakers are DM302 as a center and B&W DM303 as L&R and DS6 as rear L&R, JBL as surround back L&R pairs.

i set the AVR to 0dB and watched it from the beginning. i noticed that during extremely excessive overloaded audio scenes, i hear loud popping sounds from the rear left. i checked the speaker wiring and tried different speaker wires, same thing happens.

if i turn it down -10 or -20 there would be no digital popping.

i DTS-HD MA loud popping had been gone already, problem of the past and with Onkyo AVRs not Denon. what is going in? the time code specifically is:
2hr 33 mark during the colosseum scenes when the chariots flip over and runs against the wall. there is very loud excessive pop and i smell somn burning =P.

can som1 confirm this =P. seems like when there's a overloaded sound it'd happen. doesn't happen during loud CD playbacks @0dB.
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post #4132 of 5033
9/19/09 at 7:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post

was watching Gladiator BD w/DTS-HD MA 5.1 and my AVR-4308ci had a LOUD popping sound on the rear left!

i'm using the latest firmware on my AVR and latest firmware on my Panasonic BD35K.

my speakers are DM302 as a center and B&W DM303 as L&R and DS6 as rear L&R, JBL as surround back L&R pairs.

i set the AVR to 0dB and watched it from the beginning. i noticed that during extremely excessive overloaded audio scenes, i hear loud popping sounds from the rear left. i checked the speaker wiring and tried different speaker wires, same thing happens.

if i turn it down -10 or -20 there would be no digital popping.

i DTS-HD MA loud popping had been gone already, problem of the past and with Onkyo AVRs not Denon. what is going in? the time code specifically is:
2hr 33 mark during the colosseum scenes when the chariots flip over and runs against the wall. there is very loud excessive pop and i smell somn burning =P.

can som1 confirm this =P. seems like when there's a overloaded sound it'd happen. doesn't happen during loud CD playbacks @0dB.

boy you have a lot of problems. i,m surprised you can hear at all @0db
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post #4133 of 5033
9/20/09 at 2:47am
Loud popping ... problem of the past and with Onkyo AVRs not Denon.

I have a friend with a similar problem and it turned out it was caused by clipping as he doesn't have a subwoofer. It only happens on movies.

He could get rid of it by changing the LFE setting

I'm not an expert on bass management - but I find it strange you're getting it from a rear speaker. LFE reroutes the bass header for the sub to the mains (I think) --- perhaps with the different speakers, Audyssey is requiring more amp by attenuating the rears

Do you have the rears set up as "SMALL" ??
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post #4134 of 5033
9/20/09 at 3:17am
>>anyways, i also noticed something, there is a LOT MORE HEAT! is it ok to put something on top of it? how much clearance is good? i don't want that sucker to overheat. the IKEA cabinet i have has 1/2" clearance to the left and right of the AVR and plenty of clearance above the AVR now, but if i put another shelf over it to store other things how many inches of clearance should i give it? there is no back holes for ventilation.

I alway leave plenty of room for heat release --- if you put something on top --- you run the risk of over-temp (p 10 of the manual)

I had a different brand (B&K) receiver which was stricter on this - requiring nothing above it.

Keeping it on top should be OK -
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post #4135 of 5033
9/20/09 at 8:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post

i set the AVR to 0dB and watched it from the beginning. i noticed that during extremely excessive overloaded audio scenes, i hear loud popping sounds from the rear left.

wow u r doing 0db full load 7.1.... r u sure it's not the speaker ? Can you try switching that particular speaker ? What I understand is, if overloaded, the amp will shutdown not "pop". By "pop" it could be the cone of the spk that's popping at high load
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post #4136 of 5033
9/20/09 at 9:16pm
the "popping" isn't a cone-based issue, it is a digital popping as if the disc is skipping or something (it isn't). i can re-create it over and over again even when i plugged my rear left into a DIFFERENT speaker.

i'll try to clear the top section again & try it w/a fan.

i'm going to try matrix revolution's TrueHD 5.1 0dB when i have a chance.

and isn't 0dB a "reference level" where films are mixed at? that's what i strive for (when i can .
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post #4137 of 5033
9/21/09 at 2:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post

the "popping" isn't a cone-based issue, it is a digital popping as if the disc is skipping or something (it isn't). i can re-create it over and over again even when i plugged my rear left into a DIFFERENT speaker.

i'll try to clear the top section again & try it w/a fan.

i'm going to try matrix revolution's TrueHD 5.1 0dB when i have a chance.

and isn't 0dB a "reference level" where films are mixed at? that's what i strive for (when i can .

Oh I see...I didn't realize your playing at full volume,.....you are clipping !!!
That's what the digital popping is. Turn the volume down before you break something----0dB is not the "reference level" where films are mixed at----it's a function of the Denon amp only.
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post #4138 of 5033
9/21/09 at 4:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by knoxtn View Post

Oh I see...I didn't realize your playing at full volume,.....you are clipping !!!
That's what the digital popping is. Turn the volume down before you break something----

I agree with this bit. Stop doing it!

Quote:


0dB is not the "reference level" where films are mixed at----it's a function of the Denon amp only.

I want to expand on this bit. 0dB is only reference level on a Denon if you have got the newer Dynamic EQ update and you have run Audyssey setup successfully. Then, 0dB should be reference level if your trims have been adjusted by the setup process within the +-12dB tolerances...
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post #4139 of 5033
9/21/09 at 7:03am
i have the EQ update, but i havent run the audyssey setup yet =P. haven't gotten around to it yet >P.

will run more tests when i have time =P

PS my current calibration was done using AVIA, S&V DVDs. i used the same DVDs to config my older AVR (1804/884) and i ran it @0dB without ANY problems =P
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post #4140 of 5033
9/21/09 at 8:59am
Your manual calibration using test discs is not going to get you to reference level correctly - you may be able to match two systems SPL together, but even with a Rat Shack SPL meter you will not get the full sweep of freq to get an absolute value to call it "reference".
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The "Official" Denon 4308ci Owners Thread