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Onkyo PR-SC885P Preamp thread - Page 142

post #4231 of 5567
4/7/09 at 4:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

The analog input stage of the Onkyo is what is sub-par -- as in, not transparent, in a way that doesn't let good analog source equipment shine through untouched.

The DACs and analog output stage are very good.

I recommend you give it a comparison: Listen to an excellent CD player (Bryston? Arcam? Ayre?) via the analog and via the digital input on the Onkyo. Level match them to within one db with an SPL meter. Disable bass management and Audyssey, etc., to listen to pure two channel audio. Decide for yourself.

I will give that a try with the CD-120. No need to use a different CD player as I am happy with the CD-120. I am sure the SQ is not on a par with those three but I am finding in my room the biggest changes have been with speakers and not CD players, DACs or amps.

Bill
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post #4232 of 5567
4/7/09 at 8:12am
Well I just did a comparison of the digital input vs. the analog inputs on the 885. I thought that the 885 had a trim level for each input but I guess not. I used a SPL meter to match both the CD input (analog-RCA) and Aux1 (digital-coaxial). I found the analog input to be 2 dB louder so I just raised the volume 2 dB when switching to the Aux1 input. I had been using the balanced input on the 885 for the CD-120 but found the volume was quite a bit lower than when using the RCA CD input.

When switching inputs I have enough time to change the volume up or down depending on the input. I used several CDs I am very familiar with to do the comparison. I found after listening for about an hour back and forth I preferred the digital input. I found with the digital input that the SQ was a bit more open, slightly wider and taller soundstage and imaging/clarity was a bit better as well. These differences I found are not huge but there none the less.

I just had a Parasound 2100 preamp delivered a short while ago so I will be doing another comparison. I think this comparison will be easier as I can match the volumes with the 885 and 2100 then all I have to do is switch inputs. I will post my thoughts when I have some listening time with the 2100. Will it ever end.

Bill
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post #4233 of 5567
4/7/09 at 9:45am
This is good news Bill. Means that the digital inputs of the 885 are pretty good indeed.
I am not surprised by your findings.

The TI PCM-1796 DACs are pretty good indeed.

Bob
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post #4234 of 5567
4/7/09 at 10:32am
I compared my high end Sony transport and external XDAC to the 885 and could not hear a difference with Klipsch RF-83's which are very revealing speakers that will detect a weak front end. The Sony/XDAC rig costs more than the 885 and it will go back in another system.
*EDIT Toshiba XA-2 was used with 885 for comparison.*
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post #4235 of 5567
4/7/09 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrym303 View Post

I have never seen prepro specs without this number. I emailed Onkyo support to ask. If they respond, I will post the answer. I just asked generally what the output voltage is. Balanced is usually 1/2 that number (but effectively the same)

Jerry

I got a response from Onkyo customer support. Here it is:

"Thank You for contacting Onkyo USA Product Support.

The units output voltage for for outputs like the mutlichannel pre-outs would be 1volt."


If true, this would eliminate the unit for me as I need higher output. Positive points for Onkyo responding, though.

There is a slight chance that they gave an answer for a receiver rather than the processor since it was worded the way it was. Often, AVR's have lower pre-out output levels.
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post #4236 of 5567
4/7/09 at 1:45pm
hello all,

this is a really nice forum. I spent the days from 26.Mar (I ordered my 885 that day) in reading this thread from beginning, amazing ! I am living in Berlin/Germany and waiting to get my 885 delivered. It must be the same feeling for me as with the first members that ordered their 885s in the beginning of this thread.

The question about the output level at the balanced XLR is important for me too. It is a shame what few data Onkyo supplies in the specifications. I am a broadcast video technican and have to deal with pro audio equipment too. As soon as I have my 885 I will take some level measurements with professional audio measuring equipment.
1. Because the output level is dependant of the volume postion, all measurements have to be done with the volume fully tuned up.
2. As analog sources tend to vary in their output level, I will take a digital source for feeding the 1 kHz signal with a digital level of 0dbFS (Full Scale), which is the maximum level in the digital domain.
Point 1 and 2 make up the "mesurement condition" that can be verified.
Unfortunately I can do this for 2CH PCM audio only at first. Until now I dont know too much about the possibilities of internal level changes, i.e. input level matching etc. I will look at these points and set everything to zero or default. I will also measure the distortion level of the output signal.

Does anybody here have some experience how long the shipping with USPS Priority Mail takes from US to Europe/Germany ? I got the shipping notice on 1.Apr (please dont laugh), but the USPS tracking doesnt show any progress. I contacted the dealer and he answered, it is common that USPS tracking is working with big delay. Anybody knows ?
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post #4237 of 5567
4/7/09 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitbrain2101 View Post

hello all,

this is a really nice forum. I spent the days from 26.Mar (I ordered my 885 that day) in reading this thread from beginning, amazing ! I am living in Berlin/Germany and waiting to get my 885 delivered. It must be the same feeling for me as with the first members that ordered their 885s in the beginning of this thread.

The question about the output level at the balanced XLR is important for me too. It is a shame what few data Onkyo supplies in the specifications. I am a broadcast video technican and have to deal with broadcast/pro audio too. As soon as I have my 885 I will take some level measurements with professional audio measuring equipment.
1. Because the output level is dependant of the volume postion, all measurements have to be done with the volume fully tuned up.
2. As analog sources tend to vary in their output level, I will take a digital source for feeding the 1 kHz signal with a digital level of 0dbFS (Full Scale), which is the maximum level in the digital domain.
Point 1 and 2 make up the "mesurement condition" that can be verified.
Unfortunately I can do this for 2CH PCM audio only at first. Until now I dont know too much about the possibilities of internal level changes, i.e. input level matching etc. I will look at these points and set everything to zero or default. I will also measure the distortion level of the output signal.

Does anybody here have some experience how long the shipping with USPS Priority Mail takes from US to Europe/Germany ? I got the shipping notice on 1.Apr (please dont laugh), but the USPS tracking doesnt show any progress. I contacted the dealer and he answered, it is common that USPS tracking is working with big delay. Anybody knows ?

USPS "tracking" is a euphemism. It gets a number, is scanned when the USPS gets the package and then again when it delivers. That's enough tracking, isn't it?

USPS
Pros - It's cheap
Cons - It's cheap
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post #4238 of 5567
4/7/09 at 3:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrym303 View Post

I got a response from Onkyo customer support. Here it is:

"Thank You for contacting Onkyo USA Product Support.

The units output voltage for for outputs like the mutlichannel pre-outs would be 1volt."


If true, this would eliminate the unit for me as I need higher output. Positive points for Onkyo responding, though.

There is a slight chance that they gave an answer for a receiver rather than the processor since it was worded the way it was. Often, AVR's have lower pre-out output levels.

I bet this is not accurate. 1 volt at the preout would be highly unusual, I haven't measured it but my guess is it is somewhere is the 4 volt range.
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post #4239 of 5567
4/7/09 at 3:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray View Post

I bet this is not accurate. 1 volt at the preout would be highly unusual, I haven't measured it but my guess is it is somewhere is the 4 volt range.

That's what it will be about, if not more.

Bob
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post #4240 of 5567
4/7/09 at 6:22pm
My Yamaha AVR is only 1 volt and I need more due to my speaker system for the fronts. Not sure how to get a better number than asking Onkyo, though
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post #4241 of 5567
4/7/09 at 6:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrym303 View Post

My Yamaha AVR is only 1 volt and I need more due to my speaker system for the fronts. Not sure how to get a better number than asking Onkyo, though

Don't fret about that, it will do just fine.

Bob
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post #4242 of 5567
4/7/09 at 6:39pm
If someone has a meter that will read that low hook it up and see what it shows. My el'cheapo meter will not read down that low. I would like to believe it is more than 1 and I have never seen one go to 4 volts before (not saying that some do not though).
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post #4243 of 5567
4/7/09 at 6:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by exojam View Post

If someone has a meter that will read that low hook it up and see what it shows. My el'cheapo meter will not read down that low. I would like to believe it is more than 1 and I have never seen one go to 4 volts before (not saying that some do not though).

I have a meter too, but don't use it for this. Should be quite easy though.
If you need help, check Audioholics web site. Or read the instructions with your meter.

Bob
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post #4244 of 5567
4/7/09 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by exojam View Post

If someone has a meter that will read that low hook it up and see what it shows. My el'cheapo meter will not read down that low. I would like to believe it is more than 1 and I have never seen one go to 4 volts before (not saying that some do not though).

My old SF preamp did 8+!
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post #4245 of 5567
4/7/09 at 6:54pm
My meter will not read down to one volt rms, so it does me no good for this type of measurement. If someone has a decent meter that will read that low that can read off of the rca cable what the processor is putting out.
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post #4246 of 5567
4/7/09 at 6:56pm
+8??? What the heck kind of amp needed 8 volts to run at full output? That thing must have been a beast
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post #4247 of 5567
4/7/09 at 7:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by exojam View Post

My meter will not read down to one volt rms, so it does me no good for this type of measurement. If someone has a decent meter that will read that low that can read off of the rca cable what the processor is putting out.

It is not as simple as that. The output voltage is a function of the input signal and the setting of the volume control. Reading the specs for my 9.8, I would suggest using the input sensitivity parameters for the source signal. So, supply it with a 200mV 1KHz input, set the gain to "0" and measure the output voltage. Alternatively, try it with a 0db digital signal from a test disc.
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post #4248 of 5567
4/7/09 at 7:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by exojam View Post

+8??? What the heck kind of amp needed 8 volts to run at full output? That thing must have been a beast

It was a beast and aptly suited to driving almost anything.
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post #4249 of 5567
4/7/09 at 7:16pm
+4 Vrms should be enough to drive most amps to full power.
Quote:


My Yamaha AVR is only 1 volt and I need more due to my speaker system for the fronts. Not sure how to get a better number than asking Onkyo, though

Yamaha receivers that predate the RX-V2600 were notorious for low preout voltage hanging around 1-1.5Vrms depending on model. The RX-V2600 measured over 4.5Vrms unclipped.
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post #4250 of 5567
4/7/09 at 8:59pm
Was there ever a fix for the 4:3 stretch problem in any 885 firmware update? One of my interests with the 885 is to upconvert LaserDiscs (yes, I still have big collection)! Does the 886 have the same problem? Sounds like the colorspace issue is still unresolved as well.

Thanks for the info.

-Joe
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post #4251 of 5567
4/7/09 at 10:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by exojam View Post

If someone has a meter that will read that low hook it up and see what it shows. My el'cheapo meter will not read down that low. I would like to believe it is more than 1 and I have never seen one go to 4 volts before (not saying that some do not though).

It is quite common in car audio to go 4V+ - and then people add line divers to boot.

The high line level helps to overcome interference in that environment.

I am looking forward to hearing the measurement. I will be using single-ended, though.
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post #4252 of 5567
4/7/09 at 10:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray View Post

+4 Vrms should be enough to drive most amps to full power. Yamaha receivers that predate the RX-V2600 were notorious for low preout voltage hanging around 1-1.5Vrms depending on model. The RX-V2600 measured over 4.5Vrms unclipped.

Mine is the RX-v3800, so it is almost current.

Even the 1 volt would be adequate, but my fronts are only around 86 db sensitive as a system (a guess).
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post #4253 of 5567
4/8/09 at 12:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

USPS "tracking" is a euphemism. It gets a number, is scanned when the USPS gets the package and then again when it delivers. That's enough tracking, isn't it?

USPS
Pros - It's cheap
Cons - It's cheap

$ 165 for the shipping to Germany isn't that cheap, isn't it?

I have no idea what other other transporters like UPS etc. charge for this
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post #4254 of 5567
4/8/09 at 11:00am
Hi all, just installed my new 885, and have one issue. I use the component outputs from my Tosh HD-A35 for video and use the HDMI output for audio. The 885 apparently does not like this, and will not "allow" a picture through the A35's component video outputs.

Here's my setup: I have an NEC 10PG crt projector fed through a DVDO VP30. Because it is a legacy pj, I must use the component video outputs from the HD DVD player, PS3, etc. through the scaler for HD video. I use the HDMI inputs from the sources into my AVR for audio (gets me the hidef codecs). This works fine with my current Pio Elite AVR. When I hook up the 885, I get audio from the HD player via HDMI to the 885, but no video to the scaler from the A35 via the component outputs.

I also have no trouble getting audio (via HDMI to the 885) and video (via component via the scaler) when using my PS3 and DTV boxes. Only the HD A35 is an issue (and it worked fine using HDMI for audio and component for video with my Pio AVR.)

I tried re-setting the audio output from the A35 to PCM, but no help. I'm using the latest firmware for the A35. Also the latest firmware for the VP30.

Any ideas?
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post #4255 of 5567
4/8/09 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitbrain2101 View Post

$ 165 for the shipping to Germany isn't that cheap, isn't it?

I have no idea what other other transporters like UPS etc. charge for this

UPS would be more. Occasionally, my company ships wood samples internationally and we always go with USPS to save money. Part of the problem with UPS/FedEx is that they only offer an expedited service.
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post #4256 of 5567
4/8/09 at 4:57pm
I am trying to use REON video processor of my 885 to upscale SD channels my Directv HD box. I have tried setting 885's HDMI out to 'AUTO' and 1080P but I dont see any difference in PQ. Oh and display on 885 says HDMI Trough for both SD channels and HD channels. Does anyone know how to set up video upscaling? Thank you
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post #4257 of 5567
4/8/09 at 4:57pm
Well I ran the Audyssey program today. I measured in 6 locations, in 2 rows. The rows were 3 feet apart front to back and each spot in a row was 2 feet apart. Below is the equipment I am using and what Onkyo-Audyssey came up with.

Now I get need to listen to some programming and see how it sounds.

L-R are custom made running off of Crown XTi100
Center is custom made running off of Rotel RMB 1075
All surrounds are Recession Buster’s running off of Rotel RMB 1075
TC Sounds TC2000 Sonosub running off a EP2500
Acoustical treatments are in the room with bass traps in the back corners

Config:
Front = Full Band (I changed to 45HZ)
Center = Full Band (I changed to 60HZ)
Surrounds = 100HZ
Surround Back = 80HZ

Distance:
L = 15.2
C = 11.6
R = 11.6
SR = 7
SBR = 6.6
SBL = 6.2
SL = 6.6
Sub = 5.6

Level:
L = -10.5
C = -4.5
R = -11
SR = -1
SBR = -1.5
SBL = -2
SL = -1.5
Sub = -6.5
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post #4258 of 5567
4/8/09 at 5:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by exojam View Post

Well I ran the Audyssey program today. I measured in 6 locations, in 2 rows. The rows were 3 feet apart front to back and each spot in a row was 2 feet apart. Below is the equipment I am using and what Onkyo-Audyssey came up with.

Now I get need to listen to some programming and see how it sounds.

L-R are custom made running off of Crown XTi100
Center is custom made running off of Rotel RMB 1075
All surrounds are Recession Buster’s running off of Rotel RMB 1075
TC Sounds TC2000 Sonosub running off a EP2500
Acoustical treatments are in the room with bass traps in the back corners

Config:
Front = Full Band (I changed to 45HZ)
Center = Full Band (I changed to 80HZ)
Surrounds = 100HZ
Surround Back = 80HZ

Distance:
L = 15.2
C = 11.6
R = 11.6
SR = 7
SBR = 6.6
SBL = 6.2
SL = 6.6
Sub = 5.6

Level:
L = -10.5
C = -4.5
R = -11
SR = -1
SBR = -1.5
SBL = -2
SL = -1.5
Sub = -6.5

Was your first mic position dead center between the left and right front speaker? The L/R distance discrepancy is why I ask. Trims (levels) all look good. I would raise "Front" crossover to 80Hz.

If answer to my question is "no" then re-run Audyssey with first mic position centered.
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post #4259 of 5567
4/8/09 at 5:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEuiax View Post

I am trying to use REON video processor of my 885 to upscale SD channels my Directv HD box. I have tried setting 885's HDMI out to 'AUTO' and 1080P but I dont see any difference in PQ. Oh and display on 885 says HDMI Trough for both SD channels and HD channels. Does anyone know how to set up video upscaling? Thank you

What kind of cable are you using coming from your Directv HD box?
Check also the settings for the HDMI video input.
Look at the conversion graphs in your manual.

Pass through is only passing the video signal from it's original type of connection to the same type of connection. If you want to do upscaling of your Directv HD box through HDMI video output, using HDMI and component cables, you'll have to set your 885 to 1080p at 60hz. Set that part by pressing the HDMI button and holding it behind the flip door on the front panel of your 885. You have the choice of 24 or 60. 60 is the right one.

Bob
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post #4260 of 5567
4/8/09 at 6:09pm
Pepar,

Yes the first measurement was in the middle. I do not have any recent photos to show it BUT my left is further back than the right because of the shape of the room and my entertainment unit. Those measurements I believe are very close, if not spot on.

So far COD WAW sounds pretty dang nice.

James
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