Onkyo PR-SC885P Preamp thread - Page 180

You seemed to be quite versed in the differences in sound quality of each generation of this piece

Can I ask ....have you owned all of these..demoed all of them
what differences are there?
And what does the next level in sound mean to you..ie...do you have any specifics about the material you were listening to in the demo and what differences there were in the piece that you could discern that made it on another level

What would I expect to hear , different, going from a 885 to a 5508
You had said earlier that you thought the reference pieces were only 2-3% better than these Onkyo's..as I recall you said 97-98% of the quality for 20% of the price?
That being said...if the 5508 is on another level...where is its percentage fall in regard to the 885?
You also said the Anthem was on another level....and I handily agree with that

But based on the percentages..of 97-98%...that's not another level...to me anyway... and not really a reason to upgrade..unless of course it was $100 or something

My ears don't come anywhere close to the percentages you assigned...but we all have different ears so I get that

To give you an example of some source material I use for a litmus test

For example...if I am doing a video demo a couple of blu rays I use
The Dark Knight....the opening 2 chapers with the bank robbery and the skyview of the buildings
Avatar...again like chapters 3-4 with the fly over scene and the scene where there is an issue with the aggressive animal

Avatar is also a good one for home theater testing....those same scenes I would listen to at reference levels and listen for dialogue clarity and any harshness or lack of

For music

Joe Sample...Sample This
A lot of keyboard work here as well as some female vocals done by Dianne Reeves

Lee Ritenaur..Color Rit
A lot of guitar work here as well as some vocals by Phil Perry

I could go on and on with demo discs

But anyway...the music portion is where the Onkyo falls short and where I actually went backwards from what I owned before

Amazingly..or perhaps not..the local Anthem/Integra,Rotel, Levinson, Bryston..etc dealer just happened to have of this material ( except for one CD) in house that they used for demos

So for me..if I know the source material very well..."As best I can" I can compare what I have and its sound quality to the quality in the demo room

Again...how much different would it sound in my room...that's the unknown
But I can't imagine that an acoustically done demo room to my home theater environment can turn a silk purse into a sow's ear


Warren

I paid MRSP for it thou, so I don't think it was that great of a a sale. How much was the cost when the 885 first hit the street? 2100?

What I made a killing was the 886 refurbish, changed the whole body, faceplate with silk screen 886 scrip letter SC886 special edition sold it for about the same price as the 885


Yup, I've see the 5508 for what you were quoted, and probably a few less dollar than that. Enough to make me consider another Onkyo at one point before getting what I have now.

The 3008 is another unit I though of owning as well, and the Newegg price is truely sweet.

You have choices that for sure.

Djoel

Gotta love those OnkyoShop sales Too bad they don't come by more prevalent

Dan

agreed
I bought the refurb 885 sight unseem/unheard about 2 years ago for $589.00 from shoponkyo. Its a heck of a piece for that price. I still believe that today 100%

I bought a leftover 807 receiver this past weekend at magnolia Home Theater for 70% off retail...and yes I know that those units never sold for retail...so I probably paid about 50% of the price you could get them at Newegg last year
Anyway
While I was there the sales guy was telling me about the "divorce" that had come down between Magnolia and Onkyo
The discounts in the marketplace ..ie..newegg...were too high on these to make sense for a brick and mortar store
Then..he said they started selling the lines in Walmart

Though..I am not sure I have seen these in Walmart..not that I go there often...but no Onkyo in my local store

Anyway..he said Onkyo out..Marantz in


Warren

Here is a link that said the MSRP was $1800
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/surroun...ors/308onkpro/

though that may have included some rack ears

But I think we all know Onkyo..generally speaking... does not sell for retail prices

By the way what do you have now?


Warren

OK, I recall now I sold my Anthem AV30 for $2100, and bought the 885 for $1800.00 plus shipping $120 over night so I can get it before the audio/video calibrator made it to my house.

I have Denon 4311ci and I'm every happy with it, I have Emotiva XPA-3 pushing the mains B&W 800 series with beautiful results.

Djoel

Got my 885 for $1350 delivered not long after it debuted.

I was desperate at the time, and they where backed order as well, so I went with an installer and totally got ripped

DJoel

Date Sept 09 2007
Here's me crying about all things Silver color front face plate and having the unit arrive before Jeff did.

Basically a snap shot almost 4 years back

Djoel

and just think...for just $250 more than you paid for the 885 then.. you could get the 5508 now

A piece that you think is in a completely different league than the 885

I am very happy with the $589 I paid...its shortcomings don't bother me at all for that price...especially since I think I can sell it and get my investment back

As I recall I sold the 10-11 year old Chiro 802 on ebay( with a 99 cent starting price) and got a substantial portion of the price I paid for the 885


Warren

Nice set up

I really like the networking and "tech" edge of the Denon products.
As I mentioned earlier I bought a clearance 4310 for 75% off when Magnolia was having their blow out
I am keeping it to run an office room in my house with a set of Mirage Omnisats

Seeing the advanced functionality of the menu's overlay over HDMI and the changes you can make on the fly is one of the reasons I would like the see the Denon preamp


I also saw , recently, that Emotiva..or the parent company of..bought Sherbourn. I have a Sherborn 5/1500A 5 channel amp in my family room. I didn't know this but I saw where it said that Emotiva and Sherbourn had shared some technologies etc for several years. I looked at their XPA-5...and it looks a lot like the Sherbourn amp...well the case does anyway
As for whats in side etc...I have no idea...and I have never heard the XPA5 so I can't comment on the sound..though its certainly less expensive the the Sherbourn

Warren

Thanks

Yeah the network tech works, I love Pandora which is the only part of the feature that I use, I should crack open the manual, I've heard great things about the 4310, which originally piqued my interest, and then the 4810.
I'm keeping an eye open toward the 5308 hardware upgrade mod that they're talking about it should be a true beast once they get it off the ground, special the Denon Pre/Pro.

Yeah I read the thing about Emotiva Sherbourn merge, I think Emo bought them to use the as a pro/ installer friendly product distributor I could be wrong though, as I don't really care for either at the moment. But I know Sherbourn has always made great product at down to earth prices so they have that in common.

I find some of the Emo amps sounding a bit on the on the bright side, I own the XPA-2 and didn't like it very much, yet the XPA-1 is amazing, sounding close to a pair of Cary mono blocks I've had, and for the price a steal. Whta has me scratching my head is the XPA-3 doesn't sound like the XPA-2 at all not bright, just mellow I do want to try the UPS-5 and for home theater is should have more than enough juice.


Enjoy the search

Djoel

Yes

I was one the lucky ones that just happened to be in or near Magnolia Home Theater when they did that "get the higher end non 3D units out of here at any cost" sale..and got the 4310( open box w/all accessories) for $499

I actually bought both open box units my local store had left and sold one..made a nice profit...so my net price on the one I am keeping even makes an entry level receiver look very expensive..LOL

There are lot of Denon 4310 owners( Yamaha Z7) that have paid at or close to retail...so that sale really ruffled some feathers...and no one would match Magnolia's price either..lol
They did the same with Pioneer SC, higher end Yamahas and some leftover Onkyo's..an 807 amazingly left over, I found just the other day
I think the sale guy said they found it in the back and really didn't remember what its story was.
Gotta love some things that happen in the big box stores.

I have never seen them have 70-75% retail before
My local salesguy told me they were losing hundreds of dollars on every unit they sold at those prices

He showed me a couple in their system.....not sure if I believed it

He said cost for them on a Yamaha Z7 was $1444...it was marked at $549
He said cost on the 807 was $665...they marked it at $349

He actually showed me these numbers on his inventory screen...I just don't know much was loaded in them

anyway...whatever their cost really was I didn't mind the low prices they had gotten down to

I wished these guys carried Anthem..LOL

Warren

Interesting...the Sherbourn amp is not bright
In fact...when I added the Onkyo 885 I noticed it was brighter than the Chiro unit it replaced

Not really in bad way I guess...it just seemed to be in a more "in your face" kind of manner...where the Chiro 802 was more laid back

When I really push the 885 though...there is just a hint of harshness..and I am speaking at reference volume levels
I don't think its in the amp...because I don't recall hearing that harshness from my old preamp

Interesting thing on the Sherbourn..I bought it sight unheard as well
I was just about the pull the trigger on the Rotel 1095 and someone I knew suggested I look at the Sherbourn
reviews were very good...and a bit less than the Rotel or B&K pieces I was looking at as well


Warren

Sorry I was talking about the Emotiva amps sounding harsh, never got to listen to the Sherbourn. I think Bill Mac has amps made by them Boston Acoustics, and he's very happy with them.

Yeah I read that Chiros tend to be lay back indeed, almost sweet sounding. Too bad I never got a chance to own one, which are the type of amps I like.


Djoel

That was the way I understood it
I said that because of the Emotiva/Sherbourn connection...and the fact that the cases look the very same
I just wondered about the sound difference in the two


The Chiro was indeed more laid back than the 885




Warren

I had the Sherbourn 7/200 in my system for a few months. It is a monster of an amp that weighs I believe close to 100lbs. I almost killed myself placing it in my rack. If you look at the 7/200 link below and scroll down to the images you will see there is no comparison between the 7/200 and the Emotiva XPA-5.

http://www.sherbourn.com/home-theate...herbourn-7-200

http://emotiva.com/xpa5.shtm

The 7/200 has seven seperate mono block amps in a single chassis. The XPA-5 has a single transformer and the build quality of the 7/200 is much better IMO. The one big issue I had with the 7/200 was the hum from the transformers. They would hum even when the amp was in standby. I sold the 7/200 and bought the Boston Acoustics A7200 which is a clone of the Sherwood Newcastle A-965. No transformer hum from the A7200. I'm very happy with the A7200 and have no further urges for 200 watt amps in my fairly small room.

http://www.bostonacoustics.com/A7200-P263.aspx

http://www.sherwoodusa.com/prod_a965.html

http://www.sherwoodusa.com/pdf/A965_cutaway.pdf

Bill

Sherwood, Sherbourn same thing I completely forget how the story went should have let you tell it

The Sherwood is a beast of amp, well built

Dan

LOL...I hear you

When the UPS guy dropped of my Sherbourn 5/1500A he looked at me like it had not been a good day for him...and this heavy package wasn't helping things
He suggested I get a dolly to bring it in my house
I lifted it....boxed it probably weighs 95 lbs..its a beast
And yes..I had some hum issues to work through...I contacted Sherbourn and we tracked it down to my Direc TV line as the source
All is good now

It will play at reference levels with my Atlantic Technology 350 speaker system with ease...I have a large lower level family room that is 18x32

Here in lies one of the issues I have had with the PRSC885..or rather Audessey I guess

It does well on the distance and calibration measurements...but it misses the crossover on the speakers
If I use what it suggests my speaker sounds like 75% center channel

I called Atlantic Technology back when I first bought the Onkyo. They suggested adjusting the crossover points to 80hz...aka..the THX suggested crossover points
That made the system sound 100% better than the suggested crossovers calibrated by Audessey

I have seen this complaint a few times with owners of THX rated systems using Audessey
Not sure if the newer versions have improved this

On another note I offered the dealer who quoted me on the 5508 a $100 less than he had quoted me. He countered with $50.
I may walk for $50...I guess that shows how unmotivated I am with that piece..but I could get it and think like Jeff does..LOL

I am going to have to think about that one


Warren

Or you could wait for the 5509 to hit and buy a clearance 5508.

My status right now is that I am satisfied with my 885 and am waiting to see what the Outlaw 978 offers ... mostly in terms of what they mean by "state of the art DACs" but it will need to be Audyssey Pro ready. They've already announced XT 32 and dual sub outs as well as DSX.

Jeff

or I could wait for then to do a firesale on the Denon AVP at say 75% off retail
Yea..right...

My status now is I am satisfied with the 885 for what I paid...but somewhat unsatisfied as a whole
My thought is that some expanded Audessey formats will not change that
hence my reason from not really grabbing the 5508...now if it were $799 at Shop Onkyo or something I am in

If you recall the unit(s) I had before...the Chiro...didn't have anywhere near as advanced room correction as the 885....but still sounded better

So..like I said before I don't think Audessey is the be all end all...especially since it seems to miss calculate the THX crossovers of my speaker system..perhaps that has been remedied in the newer versions

Curiously...what's the big deal with dual sub outs?

My Atlantic 350 system requires 2 subs to meet the THX ultra standard..so I have two. I use a splitter from the sub output of the 885

Sub signal output is not in stereo...so would it not net the same result in practice?


Warren

[quote=turnne1;19938761]
I would be down for that as well. But I believe those prices at shoponkyo will not be happening anymore. I have yet to see a 5507 on shoponkyo as I think Onkyo found that they could have charged much more than they did for the 885 and the 886.


I find that Audyssey does a great job in my room and I enjoy the SQ for both HT and now music. But I agree that it is not for everyone. Some give up without doing a proper calibration as outlined in the Audyssey setup guide. I'm not sure what the issue is with the 885 miscalculating the crossovers as all you have to do is set them at 80Hz as you have.

Bill

Warren,

If one has dual subs, then it is best to set individual distance/delay and level settings for them. Dual sub outs does that. The Sub EQ HT feature of MultEQ XT 32 would then correct them as "one."

If your subs are equidistant from the main listening position/first measurement position, then individual distance settings is not needed, but allowing Audyssey's setup to get the levels matched is still a good thing. But they are not stereo, just individual settings ... before correcting all subs as "one."

I have the SVS AS-EQ1 which adds that exact thing to my 885 ... dual sub outs with the adjustments I mentioned.

Jeff

The setup process measures in-room response, period, and doesn't know anything about specs or certifications. My THX speakers come up with a suggested crossover of 60Hz, something I know to be wrong. I overrule the setup and raise them to 100Hz.

Many times members post complaints about "Audyssey" setting their crossover higher than they think they should be because their XYZ SooperDoopers spec to 40Hz, yadda yadda. It's not really Audyssey that's making the crossover setting, but that's another story. Again, Audyssey is measuring real world, in-room response. The rest of "the story" is that that info is passed to the receiver/processor and the manufacturer's policy is implemented wrt the crossover point.

Jeff

what THX system speakers do you have running in your system?..you say you change them to 100hz..I thought the THX standard was 80hz..no matter what brand?

Here is what I am running and have had for several years now. Mine is actually a newer generation...but honestly I think all they did was change the knobs on the subs and remove the "THX" on the speakers and change it to "THX ULTRA" when they made some changes to the standard several years ago

http://www.atlantictechnology.com/Up...350_manual.pdf

When I first bought the 885 I ran Audessey...cranked up a movie to one of my favorite chapters..listened
My first thought was "are you kidding me"..maybe I need to ask the guy that bought my Chiro if I could buy it back from him

anyway..I tweaked and tweaked...ran Audessey from 4-6 positions 6 or 7 different times
Still sounded harsh...too bright and too much center channel

I started checking the calibration of Audessey and noticed these "freak" crossover settings

I called Atlantic Technology and they walked me though some stuff

Long story short...changing the the crossovers to the 80hz thx standard(100hz surround) made all the difference to my ears

Funny thing the guy at Atlantic told me.....don't let Audessey be the final say..let your ears be


Warren

[quote=Bill Mac;19938980]
I have seen the 5507( refurbed at A4L)... a month ago..maybe
They also have the new 9 channel THX ultra rated amp there now..again refurbed
But the price I was quoted for that same amp the other day...( 40% off retail) is $100 less than what A4L is asking for their refurb.

As for the crossovers...I changed them to 80hz and my ears felt much better
I even did the same exercise again the other day to see if I could tweak any better quality out of system
Same result letting Audessey it all...sounded like sh-t

Changed all the crossovers to 80hz....sounded the same as it did before I did the tweaking that day,,,and that is where it remains
Curiously Audessey will set the center speaker( 90% ) of the time to 80..and the subs 100% of the time to 80..but never the R,L and rears

One would think that Audessey would come up with the same calculations and crossover points consistently when you have the same equipment in the same room


Warren

M&K S-150. Yes, THX crossover is 80Hz, but I wanted to take a bit more load off the power amp and have my subs handle the content. If speakers go to 80Hz, there is nothing wrong with sending them "less."


Ears are good; they are my final arbiter. When I tweak my target curve, it is from listening to well-recorded music, jazz usually. If I get that sounding good, everything else does as well.

I don't understand how the harshness you experienced was from the crossover settings. There are other things that can happen to cause harshness.

Jeff

... slightly different mic positions will result in different measurements being passed along to the receiver/processor. It is virtually impossible to make two runs with identical mic positions.

One of these days I will run Audessey again...when I really have nothing else better to do...I will leave the mic sitting in the same position on a table for about 4 runs

if I were betting man I bet I still get the range of crossovers

I have used both the Pioneer and Yamahas system recently..to set up some friends and relatives system over the holidays

I frankly don't see ...sorry..I meant hear, that big of a difference
This was with a Pioneer SC25 and a Yamaha Z7

What I will say is that Denon has the best onscreen menu system on the market...this is speaking 2010 models..I haven't seen the 2011 menu systems


Warren

The harshness I heard in the center... and I am speculating....was likely just there as a result of the sound quality of the 885.....when I ran Audessey the way it placed the crossovers amplified this because the center was more pronounced in its settings.....before I changed the crossovers
Then it was better.


Warren