Choosing LCD over DLP for picture quality (no flame war) - Page 3

I'm not sure you know what you are trying to say here as I sure don't.

LCD display frequency is very important as it incorporates frame rate and refresh rate. These are factors that can affect what you see and how you see it, period.

I'm not badmouthing LCD so you can lighten up on the evangelism. Millions of people have no problem with "sequential" images processes used in DLP just as millions have no trouble with any of the other digital technology anomalies.

Each individual should do their own testing to see what they like and what will work best for them.

It is important to make sure someone does not make a decision based on a comment like, "DLP is generally accepted as better than LCD" simply because it is a faceless statement and usually not supported by evidence when most people that say it use it in a post, but, also because the standard by which the statement is made may not be the same standard someone else will use in making their decisions.

Incorrect.

Also, I personally chose DLP because burnt polarizers, discolored panels and dust blobs have effectively scared me off LCD projectors for good.

Frankly, these are my biggest concerns with LCDs. Even some of the models marketed as "dust free" like the HC5000, turned out to be prone to dust blobs.

Also, while the D6 panels are inorganic and should not degrade, I assume that polarizers are still capable of degrading? Owning an LCd projector, I always felt like I should never watch it for too long lest I damage it.

Some dlps are also prone to dust. I wouldn't buy one of those either.

And DLP have no problems either.Brother when are these DLP fanatics going to give it up.Both LCD AND DLP have equal problems. BOB

That's not true. Many DlPs have completely sealed light paths and are not prone to dust blobs, or to dust, at all! All dlps are free from burnt polarizers and degraded panels. It is possible for a dlp chip to fail, but I can't recall any thread here devoted to that issue. Some precentage of any product will fail, that is tru of any kind of projector. That said, most LCD projectors have these unique issues, which are not shared by dlp projectors.

What is with making a decision on a device and technical discussion of sequential color vs continuous?
All LCD does is display the signal at whatever refresh is encoded. Some new one can do 48 hz as well like any film material is. What is the question? Keep in mind we are talking about one single frame.
Sequential is only exclusive to DLP and it is not desirable.
It is true that many aren't bothered by RBE but there are also many who are.
Hey where is that 3-ch dlp?

I just came from BB and watched the Optoma 80 and definitely colors and black level are a step down from my Sony .

Some have dust, panel discoloration, noisy wheel, stuck mirror, stuck and burnt pixel, noisier fan with heat dissipation with both DLP and LCD and probably LCos. Reliability issues are long term consideration and it only happens after 1000's of hours. By then pj's are so much better that an upgrade is a better choice anyway even if your unit is fine. This thing is not meant for commercial application neither for long term reliability.

I haff to laff. The OP titles the thread with the caveat (no flame war). Impossible I say!

Well not really.
Each has its strengths and weaknesses. To say one is better than the other is generalization.
If you are looking for solid black level and life like color LCD wins.
On the other hand ansi contrast and less sde is what DLP is all about.
And we have dithering and rbe wih DLP and they say long term reliability of LCD.
You decide which attribute(s) matters to you and which weakness(s) is a deal breaker.

PLAZMAS IS TEH BESTEST!!!!

(sorry, couldn't resist)

While having all these display choices (and they are many if we step beyond FP) made my life more complicated than back in the day when I was deciding between a Sony Trinitron SD CRT or a Panasonic GAOO (went with the Sony, in case anyone cares), ultimately it's for the best as the plethora of choices in many budgets allows people to find that which is more pleasing to them.

Besides, if it weren't for the differences in various display technologies, what would we have to complain about?

Pretty well stated.

to that, I would add/try to say a different way - we actually perceive things differently -

Meaning that - all eyes do not see everything the same.

We hear things differently, with our hearing not being totally flat.

We also see things differently, two people actually will often see enough difference that their perception is different - look at the screen shoot outs, etc and various ratings.

There is no "LCD is better at colors" or "DLP is better at colors" there can only be generalizations.

The guys in this thread that "see" DLP colors better - really do see them better.

The guys in this thread that "see" LCD colors better - really do see them better.

The Original Poster and others is just gonna have to eyeball them to see which looks best to him.

As mentioned by a couple of others, if you have a wife - you better see what she likes the best before you make a final decision - she's gotta live with it too.

What may be only a slight difference to you - could easily be a major difference for her -

If You're wife isn't gonna be happy with it long term - trust me, you're not gonna be happy with it long term. Even if she's easygoing and doesn't really care, you want her in there watching those movies with you _grin_

Having said that...
With Optoma HD-80 1080 unit with respectable performance in mid $2k range we have already entered a new phase in competition. We probably see 1080 unit near holiday right around $2k. And then after Sony SXRD & 1080 LCD will be available in this segment of the market.

Ok, really... are you a high school gamer? No offense but BB to review an HD80? I might need an ambulance if I don't stop laughing so hard!

Thanks, that was a good one!

Well the joke is on you! Some Magnolias in BestBuy do carry the HD80, and their showrooms are reasonably light controlled. What is your issue?

Your reply tells me that you are indeed the high school gamer and not a good one.
Read Tom's review if you are interested in the Optoma.

I haven't seen a Magnolia yet where the PJ room wasn't setup for the sole purpose of driving customers back out to the flat screen floor. There's no money in selling PJs at BB. They might have them and you can sometimes get a good deal on one but you already know what you want when you get there.

High school? No such thing as video games when I graduated. I instead engaged in a few activities courtesy of Uncle Sam in the Persian Gulf and Somalia though. I've been retired from that nearly 10 years now. I have some teenage boys who like to game though and they have shared a laugh or two with me when we see the PJs set up in some box store.

In Magnolia "Reasonably light controlled" in my experience means that the lights are on but dim. I would never judge any projector uder those conditions. The first time I saw a Ruby I saw it in a Magnolia and if I based my impressions on it from that, I would question how anyone would ever buy one.

That said, even though I have never seen one, I don't expect that the HD80 is ultimately going to do the job for most people. I say that because I am biased against Optoma. I admit it. I could be wrong. To the best of my knowlege, Optoma is strictly a dlp shop so I guess I am biased against LCDs and at least some dlps.

CaspianM, to suggest that someone in doubt on the Optoma should read Tom's review (I assume that you mean guitarman) is basically like asking Optoma itself if it makes a good projector. I don't think that Tom, as an Optoma dealer, has ever met an Optoma that he didn't like.

The biggest problem I have with Best Buy Magnolia demos? They all use the Firehawk screens with negative gain.

I know it's considered high end, but negative gain, and dull color production is all I ever find with those screens.

I'd take a cheapo white matte over it everytime.

I do have a hard time believing that the DLP system with the spinning color wheel could or would be any significantly more reliable than solid state LCD though.

I had three other theater owners over last night, and I think I sold some projector upgrades

They all had single chip 720p DLP projectors and all three exclaimed my 1080p LCD slayed the video their older projectors put out in virtually every aspect.

Those Firehawk screens are very expensive so they have to be good, right?

I detect the sarcasm there right? I take it you agree with me on those friggen screens?

Sure- just as Monster cables are worth every penny...

HD-80 is a good one for the most part guys. I like it with more on/off but for the asking price and 10% plus rewardzone discount make it a bargain. The room was totally dark and spent 30 minutes with it. I never said I reviewed it but a quick audition. Tom seems rather accurate in his finding&replies when I asked him some questions. Screen I was told was 1.25 (I think) gain 86" diag and stewart's screen are always very nice. I had the Stewart StudioTek 130 and it was absolutely a great material. I am planning to buy another Stewart screen very soon.

Nice on the screen. I looked at a Pearl in my closest Magnolia recently, seemed very poor. I actually wrote down the make and model of the screen. .8 gain, with an odd sort of material, it was a Firehawk.

I am not saying that the HD-80 is not a good projector, I don't know if it is or it isn't. I am just sceptical about it because Optoma has a history of rushing unfinished products to the market and then never fixing their flaws. I might accept some issues on a sub $1k projector but not on one that is more than double the price.

I mostly agree. There may be some application where they are the right screen to use but I have not seen it yet. They certainly don't help best Buy Buy sell any projectors. Maybe that is why they are apparently switching to higher gain screens now?

Not for projectors, but I know it's true for LCD computer displays. We manufacture a line of robotic assembly machines that use 15" NEC flat screen monitors displaying our propitiatory software. We have seen many of these exhibiting what looks like screen burn in on a CRT. The mechanism is different, but the effect is the same. Instead of phosphor burn, the LCD elements tend to "permanently" hold a general alignment if they have been held in one position for a long time. You can find more technical details on this if you look on display vendors websites. NEC covers it quite well.

One again, while the LCD panel in a projector works in a similar manner, there are differences in element size and operating temperature among other things, so this may or may not not be an issue in projectors.

One thing that may be helpful to know is that unlike CRT burn in, LCD retention is often reversible. The display manufacturers have recommended procedures for clearing the screen that often works.

Screen was actually 1.25 I think. They had the pearl in next room and that was negative gain and smaller screen and looked rather flat. With 22% off it virtually is in the Sharp 12k MKII range.

You can always just turn off the lights. I agree that the showrooms are not perfect. The one closest to me has a Sharp 3K on a 80" wide Firehawk. With the doors closed it has better light control than some HTs I have seen. I have suggested they add blackout curtaint to the doors, but of course there is the litigation liability issues.