AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Players › Denon's DVD-2500BTCI Blu-Ray Player OWNERS Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Denon's DVD-2500BTCI Blu-Ray Player OWNERS Thread - Page 5

post #121 of 2524
1/11/08 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkgriffin View Post

I called Denon and the rep who seemed to know his stuff said the 2500 will not convert TrueHD/DTS MA => LPCM. It will only bitstream those advance formats. It will send a LPCM track to the receiver is that is the format offered by the movie.

Bottom line is that the 2500 (especially for the price) is not a good option unless you have a HDMI 1.3 AVR that can accept TrueHD and DTS MA via bitstream.

The only thing I am still unclear on is how it handles the BD 1.1 features. My guess is that it will mix everything in the player using legacy DD and DTS. Which is fine with me since if I am listening to the director commentary I really don't think I would notice if the movie is being played with TrueHD or DD.

Even if you do have an HDMI 1.3 AVR, what exactly makes this thing worth $1,000?
Reply
Reply

AVS Top Picks

post #122 of 2524
1/11/08 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by localnet View Post

Stupid question here.

I have the Denon 4308ci, the 2500, is this the unit I want?

I have a very sorry Sony BD player, and a Denon 2930ci DVD that actually blows the Sony away in pq.

Help a newby out here!

Mike

Your 4308CI will handle all of the codecs sent from the 2500. There have been no reviews yet, so it may be prudent to wait and see how it performs before plunking down the cash. Some things to look into are its reliability in playing a vast array of BDs and its load/playback speed. If aesthetics are important, then it will certainly be a physical match for your AVR. If SD DVD video quality is important to you, as it seems to be, then don't expect the 2500 to be among the best in this regard. Your 2930CI will probably provide a better de-interlacing/scaling solution.

Pioneer will be releasing lower priced models later this year that will do more than this transport, so these options may be something else for you to consider.
Reply
Reply
post #123 of 2524
1/11/08 at 12:01pm
Called Crutchfield. They have no pre-order list yet. They're not sure when it's arriving. I like Crutchfield for their excellent customer service (and 30 day trial period).

But - guess I'll check listenup.

I agree the main thing to hope for is reliability in playing a vast array of BDs and a nifty load/playback speed. Guess we'll know soon enough.
Reply
Reply
post #124 of 2524
1/11/08 at 12:11pm
Thanks, that is what I thought, but did not quite know for sure.

So, where do we get one? I would like to throw the Sony BD out the window, and get a mate for my 2930ci which has an incredible pq. I can only imagine what the pq will be like on the 2500.
Reply
Reply
post #125 of 2524
1/11/08 at 12:20pm
2930ci for SD, it really is incredible on my 52" Bravia. My Sony, when playing bluray, has an unimpressive pq compared to my 2930ci playing sd discs. The SD discs on my Denon, blow away the BD discs played on the Sony.

Maybe I have something set up wrong on the Sony?
Reply
Reply
post #126 of 2524
1/12/08 at 4:07am
You definitely have something wrong. My Denon 3930, incredible machine that it is (w/ Realta), can't hold a candle to my BDPS1 (106" screen).
Reply
Reply
post #127 of 2524
1/12/08 at 4:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrey View Post

Thanks, Ian. The part I don't follow then is the statement in the Product Sheet that reads: "Supports extended functions for BD-Video. Sub-video data (directors comments, etc.) recorded with movies on BD-Video discs can be enjoyed in a sub-screen along with the main screen."

So, I am getting confused (sorry). Would I be correct that in order to get PIP you'd give up bitstream?

Yes, I believe you will have to give up HD audio on bitstream.

On the Panasonic DMP-BD30 for example if you have both bitstream AND secondary audio set to on, it mixes primary and secondary and outputs as a STANDARD Dolby Digital bitstream over HDMI or legacy digital.

I'm guessing this is becuase the Panasonic also does not decode HD audio internally and therefore would have to switch to the normal DD or DTS stream for the movie audio, at which point you are no longer in HD audio...

The exception to this would be films with a PCM primary track, this can be mixed by the player, however again the Panasonic limits this to 48KHz regardless of the source track. Not much of an issue for movies, but for music...

I think Profile 1.1/2.0 and secondary audio will become a minefield once more people start using it and realising what they do or don't get.
Reply
Reply
post #128 of 2524
1/12/08 at 4:33am
As another poster said, why would it matter. If you're listening to the director's commentary on top of the movie soundtrack, its not like you're going for the best movie sound in the first place.

Tell you what would be a good poll. Find the ratio of people who listen to director's commentary to those who don't.
Reply
Reply
post #129 of 2524
1/12/08 at 8:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

As another poster said, why would it matter. If you're listening to the director's commentary on top of the movie soundtrack, its not like you're going for the best movie sound in the first place.

Tell you what would be a good poll. Find the ratio of people who listen to director's commentary to those who don't.

Jim,

Great idea on a poll as to whether people have any interest in the Directors commentary. Put me down for a big NO! Also I have no interest in the other features Bluray is expanding on (Live?). I know there are some that are interested but my only interest is watching the movie in my player. PQ and SQ of a specific player are my main interests.

Bill
Reply
Reply
post #130 of 2524
1/12/08 at 8:16am
Bill,

Same here. Best PQ and SQ.

....and lets try to do it without having to replace my preamp.lol
Reply
Reply
post #131 of 2524
1/12/08 at 9:49am
OK, we just got the product sheet on this.

The video upscaling is done by the Panasonic PRO2P decoding engine. Which has 3:2, 2:2 cadence detection.

(not the Realta)

And everything points to NO internal decoding of lossless formats to PCM.


There are numerous places on the product comparison sheets where they could have marked ANYTHING pertaining to internal decoding, but they never point to it at all.

I am going to attempt to get more info from my rep on Monday.

They are supposed to ship the last week of Jan.
Reply
Reply
post #132 of 2524
1/12/08 at 9:52am
Crap!
Reply
Reply
post #133 of 2524
1/12/08 at 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Crap!

Double crap....

I dont mind paying for the 3800, but at that price it should be 2.0 compliant... regardless if I will use it or not.

Its such a long wait for the Panasonic and Pioneer.

What to do....
Reply
Reply
post #134 of 2524
1/12/08 at 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Bill,

Same here. Best PQ and SQ.

....and lets try to do it without having to replace my preamp.lol

Jim,

I would think that one of the new Pioneers might be the answer over the 2500. Priced lower (projected) than the 2500 with onboard decoding and by initial reports better video processing. With the possibilty of Bluray winning the format battle I will be looking at the Pioneer to replace my A2 and BD30 in the future. Then I would not have to replace my AVM 30.

Bill
Reply
Reply
post #135 of 2524
1/12/08 at 12:07pm
noone has mentioned that these players have serial control. this is a big plus for me. i really like to get the timecode, etc fed to a touchscreen rather than putting it up on the screen. as far as i know this is the only bd player that has 2 way rs232 control. am i correct?

greg
Reply
Reply
post #136 of 2524
1/12/08 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Double crap....

I dont mind paying for the 3800, but at that price it should be 2.0 compliant... regardless if I will use it or not.

Its such a long wait for the Panasonic and Pioneer.

What to do....

triple crap! i'm gonna have to wait for the pioneer but the panasonic comes out sooner supposedly its gonna be tough holding out so long, might even get tempted by the panasonic depending on how it performs. i also cant justify spending 2 grand for the realta in the 3800.
Reply
Reply
post #137 of 2524
1/12/08 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by localnet View Post

2930ci for SD, it really is incredible on my 52" Bravia. My Sony, when playing bluray, has an unimpressive pq compared to my 2930ci playing sd discs. The SD discs on my Denon, blow away the BD discs played on the Sony.

Maybe I have something set up wrong on the Sony?

I don't know, the 2930CI is pretty incredible with SD-DVDs and a good display.

I don't have Blu-ray, but I have compared Harry Potter movies on SD DVD on my 2930CI with the 1080i version on my TiVo S3 using the Pio 6010 display.

No advantage to the 1080i version.
Reply
Reply
post #138 of 2524
1/13/08 at 4:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Double crap....

I dont mind paying for the 3800, but at that price it should be 2.0 compliant... regardless if I will use it or not.

Its such a long wait for the Panasonic and Pioneer.

What to do....

Well, if it has an ethernet port when released, it could be upgraded to Profile 2.0 using the SD memorycard as storage.
Reply
Reply
post #139 of 2524
1/13/08 at 9:03am
I've never posted a "jeez, that thing is overpriced" comment in my many years of reading these forums but I gotta say, Jeez this thing is overpriced. Denon isn't paying for any lossless audio decoders, a state of the art video scaler, analog outs, SACD or DVD-Audio capability...and they want $1,000 for it? Come on - it's a box with a thingy to spin the disc, a lazer to read it, and some wires and stuff. OK, OK, it's a bit more complicated than that, but really. For that price you can get a Panny BD30 AND a Toshiba A-35. Now you have two spiny thingies, two lazers, a lot more wires and stuff in two boxes - with a Reon chip, analogue outs and significantly greater audio decoding capabilities. I'm sure the Denon will have better build quality and a flux capacitor power supply and weigh a lot. but still....................Keep in mind I'm ranting because I really wanted one....IF it had the Realta, or even the Reon in it. But like many of you guys I'm really disappointed, and surprised, at the final specs - given the rather lofty price point. Rats and double phooey!

Dick Fogg
Reply
Reply
post #140 of 2524
1/13/08 at 9:15am
If it is true that it doesn't decode to LPCM from DTS MA or TRUE HD, I agree with you. It is a lot of money to simply stream a bitstream signal over HDMI.

Even my first Gen Panny BD-10 does much more than that..
Reply
Reply
post #141 of 2524
1/13/08 at 9:30am
I feel the same way. At their suggested price, Denon should have made the 2500 a digital powerhouse with the same DSP section used for the 3800. It's still a great idea to offer the option of a digital-only BD transport; I just think they should have offered a bit more for the price.
Reply
Reply
post #142 of 2524
1/13/08 at 9:43am
The spec sheet claimed the 2500 has a new transport mechanism. If this unit can cut load times by 30 sec or so, I would buy it.

Also, the multi-layered chassis and the sturdy build of this transport make it a viable contender for those with an appropriately matched AVR or Pre/pro.

2.0 compliant would be nice!
Reply
Reply
post #143 of 2524
1/13/08 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodynamics View Post

The spec sheet claimed the 2500 has a new transport mechanism. If this unit can cut load times by 30 sec or so, I would buy it.

Also, the multi-layered chassis and the sturdy build of this transport make it a viable contender for those with an appropriately matched AVR or Pre/pro.

2.0 compliant would be nice!

Multi layered for what? This thing only got a HDMI connector and a RS232 port. What does Denon actually want to seperate from what? Seriously, this thing better be the bomb, or else you'd be sitting at home with $999 worth of metal and plastic. The way I'm looking at it, Denon could have easily cut the chassis in half and sell this one at $399
Reply
Reply
post #144 of 2524
1/13/08 at 10:41am
MitchR, you get the cookie for the best, most concise summary of this player: "What does Denon actually want to separate from what?" Great line!
Other than fhe flux capacitor from the spiny thingy, I can't think of much.

Dick Fogg
Reply
Reply
post #145 of 2524
1/13/08 at 2:14pm
Well - I'll be the guinnea pig on this unit. I plan on buying one as soon as they are released. Hopefully within the next two weeks.
Reply
Reply
post #146 of 2524
1/13/08 at 6:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by arefog View Post

I've never posted a "jeez, that thing is overpriced" comment in my many years of reading these forums but I gotta say, Jeez this thing is overpriced. Denon isn't paying for any lossless audio decoders, a state of the art video scaler, analog outs, SACD or DVD-Audio capability...and they want $1,000 for it? Come on - it's a box with a thingy to spin the disc, a lazer to read it, and some wires and stuff. OK, OK, it's a bit more complicated than that, but really. For that price you can get a Panny BD30 AND a Toshiba A-35. Now you have two spiny thingies, two lazers, a lot more wires and stuff in two boxes - with a Reon chip, analogue outs and significantly greater audio decoding capabilities. I'm sure the Denon will have better build quality and a flux capacitor power supply and weigh a lot. but still....................Keep in mind I'm ranting because I really wanted one....IF it had the Realta, or even the Reon in it. But like many of you guys I'm really disappointed, and surprised, at the final specs - given the rather lofty price point. Rats and double phooey!

Dick Fogg

Agreed. This thing seems to be meant as a little toy for those that have the cash for the new 5k series Denon AVR who only need a transport. For the rest of us, we can either pay for the 3800 or go elsewhere. I'd write more but I'm all of a sudden I'm too busy in the Pioneer and Panasonic threads....
Reply
Reply
post #147 of 2524
1/13/08 at 7:01pm
The 2500 should mate nicely w/ my Onkyo 885 pre/pro (Be nice to finally access DTS-MA tracks! )
Reply
Reply
post #148 of 2524
1/13/08 at 7:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitchR View Post

Multi layered for what? This thing only got a HDMI connector and a RS232 port. What does Denon actually want to seperate from what? Seriously, this thing better be the bomb, or else you'd be sitting at home with $999 worth of metal and plastic. The way I'm looking at it, Denon could have easily cut the chassis in half and sell this one at $399

You might want to wait until you see it before slamming it.

My 2930CI makes SD DVDs look like Blu-ray on my Pioneer 6010. i think Denon people know what they're doing.
Reply
Reply
post #149 of 2524
1/13/08 at 8:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Ballentine View Post

Well - I'll be the guinnea pig on this unit. I plan on buying one as soon as they are released. Hopefully within the next two weeks.


****UPDATE****

Just a heads up. I just got the 2500 added to my inventory today. No word yet on the 3800. Should be arriving very very shortly in Magnolia's. Denon however is notorious for being delayed to ship, but early early early February is looking right.
Reply
Reply
post #150 of 2524
1/13/08 at 9:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Bourne View Post

My 2930CI makes SD DVDs look like Blu-ray on my Pioneer 6010. i think Denon people know what they're doing.

I agree the 2930CI is an outstanding DVD player as I used to have one and might be re-purchasing one as I'm looking for a strong DVD solution. However, there is still absolutely no comparison between BD and DVD on several levels (most obvious being you're comparing 480i to 1080p source material or 345,000 pixels of information vs. over 2,000,000).
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Blu-ray Players

AVS Top Picks

AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Players › Denon's DVD-2500BTCI Blu-Ray Player OWNERS Thread