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Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 37

post #1081 of 20356
The PB13U will kill the HSU in music and movies. 2 12 inch does not have more cone area than a 18 inch, keep that in mind.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #1082 of 20356
It's impressive that a single PB13U can almost match (or exceed in some frequencies) the output of a conquest from 16Hz and above. The PB13 is so small compared to the Conquest. I wonder if a JL W7 13.5 inch driver was in a large enclosure (maybe even with ports) would match the output of a Conquest. It almost matched the output of a PB13U down low, which is VERY impressive for a driver in a tiny box. I hope someone do a DIY on this project. The results should be very interesting.
post #1083 of 20356
Are their any Knight owners yet? I'm interested in the Knight, but it hasn't been discussed much. I'm very curious to know how it compares to a SVS PB12-NSD. I'm interested in either of these subs considering they are very close in price.
post #1084 of 20356
Quote:


It's impressive that a single PB13U can almost match (or exceed in some frequencies) the output of a conquest from 16Hz and above.

Who says it can? Where did you get this nonsense from?
post #1085 of 20356
Quote:It's impressive that a single PB13U can almost match (or exceed in some frequencies) the output of a conquest

you must work for SVS

rmlowz
post #1086 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by REVolution View Post

Are their any Knight owners yet? I'm interested in the Knight, but it hasn't been discussed much. I'm very curious to know how it compares to a SVS PB12-NSD. I'm interested in either of these subs considering they are very close in price.

I would like to know also.
post #1087 of 20356
Comparing IIkka's data on the PB13U with TN's data on the Conquest.
Note: almost match, meaning a few dB less, not match or exceed. PB13U only exceed the Conquest on 25Hz, 32Hz, 40Hz, 50Hz and 63Hz (with more distortion though), unless TN's room have a null at those frequecies.
post #1088 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by chengbin View Post

Comparing IIkka's data on the PB13U with TN's data on the Conquest.
Note: almost match, meaning a few dB less, not match or exceed. PB13U only exceed the Conquest on 25Hz, 32Hz, 40Hz, 50Hz and 63Hz (with more distortion though), unless TN's room have a null at those frequecies.

It is hard to compare the 2 reviews. Noussaine may have some null issues at some frequencies, and some reinforcing issues at other frequencies.

I would guess that the Conquest is 3-5 dB higher in SPL from 16 to 25 Hz, with the gap narrowing a bit above 25 Hz.

Then there is the question of sound quality... will the Conquest sound as good as, better, or worse than the Ultra ?
post #1089 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by chengbin View Post

Comparing IIkka's data on the PB13U with TN's data on the Conquest.
Note: almost match, meaning a few dB less, not match or exceed. PB13U only exceed the Conquest on 25Hz, 32Hz, 40Hz, 50Hz and 63Hz (with more distortion though), unless TN's room have a null at those frequecies.

As I am sure Craig said in the above post, you can't begin to compare Ilkka's data to TN's data.
post #1090 of 20356
Craig, when can you get your hands on a Conquest?
post #1091 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by chengbin View Post

Craig, when can you get your hands on a Conquest?

I keep trying, my friend. Chad has promised to get to me a quote for purchasing several subs to review. With patience, I am sure it will happen.
post #1092 of 20356
Usually how long does it take to test the subs and figuring out the movie and music score?
post #1093 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by chengbin View Post

The PB13U will kill the HSU in music and movies. 2 12 inch does not have more cone area than a 18 inch, keep that in mind.


Really - so you had both and this is your objective opinion? It's posters like you that drove me away from SVS to begin with. Was thinking of the new Ultra, but with vulgar posts like this, and the fact the amps blow, and the price is nearly double that of the Hsu = easy choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwolfe38 View Post

I'm not sure what the weight is on the tower but i'm pretty darn sure it weighs more than 85 pounds.. My bet would be something like 120 pounds or more. The conquest weighs in around 250 pounds (although its 363 pounds shipped). It may be heavier than chad originally suggested because the shipping didn't seem to me that it weighed over 100 pounds (i thought more like 80 pounds but thats just a guess).
The tower has got to be close to half the weight of the conquest.

I'm sure it's over a 100 lb's as well. More concerned I guess with cost of shipping - these things get really expensive once you cross the border. I can lift and carry up the stairs about 130lbs if I can get a good grip on it (is that what the port is for ) but if it's heavier, it becomes too awkward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwolfe38 View Post

Again, i wouldn't be suprised at all if you are wrong here. If you've seen my graphs the conquest may not have much at 10hz but by 14hz its almost at full output.
I'll have to run more sweeps with my system properly calibrated to be sure though.
And like someone already mentioned, 2 12" inch woofers has less area than a single 18. The conquest port area is likely more than the two hsu's also. Those are some great woofers i'm just not sure they'll keep up with a tower. A better comparison may be the ultra13 vs the tower which should be pretty darn close i'd bet.. The ultra is truly an awesome sub though, its also a few hundred dollars more though.. So even if it does best the tower wouldn't mean the tower isn't a good deal.


I'm not sure about that. Not the driver area, you're right ( I was just trying to joke around about the 'small' 18" driver in the conquest). However, surface area alone does not define the woofer. If it did, why is the Fathom performing so well in a sealed, small box? All things being equal, you're definitely right. But lets wait for Ross to check in first before we jump to too many conclusions. But even if it was a tie (and I don't think it will be - I do think the Conquest will offer more output - just not nearly as much as you may think) One Conquest is $400 cheaper than two Hsu's, so if I was in the market right now for my true H/T sub, it's no contest, I"d be posting about being the first Canuck to have bought a Conquest

But as it stands, for me, the room it is going in, and what I will be using it for, the Hsu (or Tower) is the best fit for me right now.

Ross - I'm really looking forward to your impressions and comparo's. I wish I was there, I'm sure you'll be in bass heaven with all three (er five) of your subs (once your amps are fixed on the SVS's).
post #1094 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpt_Krunch View Post

Too bad only one Tower owner so far though. I'd like to hear more impressions of it, or at least see some graphs to its performance (though I'm sure it does what everyone says it does). I'd really like to know how much it weighs though. The HSU is 93 lbs shipped, so my guess is about 85 lbs un boxed. If that's the case, lb for lb the HSU would still be the best one IMO, but until you read comparos, speaking of which.........

There is more than one Tower owner. I'm one and I've seen at least one other person on this thread with one. Chad mentioned that there were a few who aren't very active on the forums when I decided on mine.

In my room, I'm seeing about 5dB+ for the Tower over the SVS PB12-Ultra. I originally bought the SVS over a HSU because the SVS had a significant output advantage when I measured both of those.

I'm positive the Tower will completely destroy the HSU in output and I've found the sound quality to be very articulate and responsive as well.
post #1095 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Tatnall View Post

There is more than one Tower owner. I'm one and I've seen at least one other person on this thread with one. Chad mentioned that there were a few who aren't very active on the forums when I decided on mine.

In my room, I'm seeing about 5dB+ for the Tower over the SVS PB12-Ultra. I originally bought the SVS over a HSU because the SVS had a significant output advantage when I measured both of those.

I'm positive the Tower will completely destroy the HSU in output and I've found the sound quality to be very articulate and responsive as well.

Good to know. Now, how about sound quality, something the SVS is not known for (not saying it's bad, just saying the 'output' gets more headlines than 'response' does)? Does the Tower stop on a dime and is it more articulate than the SVS? I've read the Conquest is very musical for such a large driver. The Servos are also praised for their musicality. If the Tower can match or even be close to a Servo - it's a steal of a deal and I just may have to change my mind!
post #1096 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpt_Krunch View Post

Does the Tower stop on a dime and is it more articulate than the SVS? I've read the Conquest is very musical for such a large driver. The Servos are also praised for their musicality.

Stops on a dime as far as I can tell. Like Dennis said previously, when I compare the Tower to my SVS the SVS sounds sloppy. I didn't expect that to happen. The Tower is much closer, if not equal, to a servo than it is close to how the SVS sounds.
post #1097 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Tatnall View Post

Stops on a dime as far as I can tell. Like Dennis said previously, when I compare the Tower to my SVS the SVS sounds sloppy. I didn't expect that to happen. The Tower is much closer, if not equal, to a servo than it is close to how the SVS sounds.

I do remember reading the 'sloppy' posts but with all these subs I thought it was the Valour that was being compared.

That is VERY impressive. What are you guys trying to do to me? I already really like the workmanship going into these subs. Very impressed with how Chad actually showed us the internals of the cabinet. Not many sub manufacturers do that.

$1099 US is an incredible deal for a sub like this if the fr is flat. Still need to see some measurements. I'm not doubting anyone's ears here, and IMO that means more than a graph, but a graph is good way to see how the sub behaves at different frequencies without being able to hear it.

However, based on what I've been reading and the driver an amp used on the Tower, I'm sure it will hit almost as hard as the Conquest in the 20 hz + range, and will go lower than the HSU............ I think I might have to give Chad a call in a couple of weeks
post #1098 of 20356
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chengbin View Post

It's impressive that a single PB13U can almost match (or exceed in some frequencies) the output of a conquest from 16Hz and above. The PB13 is so small compared to the Conquest.

LMAO!!!!!!! what kinda weed are you smoking my friend, because it must be some powerful sh!t
would you might enlightening us on where you got this sillyness from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpt_Krunch View Post

$1099 US is an incredible deal for a sub like this if the fr is flat.

that's why several DIYers like myself are pretty excited about commercial offerings like Epik's line.... incredible potential and performance at just insane prices.
post #1099 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

LMAO!!!!!!! what kinda weed are you smoking my friend, because it must be some powerful sh!t
would you might enlightening us on where you got this sillyness from?


that's why several DIYers like myself are pretty excited about commercial offerings like Epik's line.... incredible potential and performance at just insane prices.

Sherv, before you totally melt down, all the poor guy did was take the numbers he can see from Nousaine and from Ilkka ...

Nousaine Has the following measurements on the Conquest:
16 Hz: 104.7 dB
20 Hz: 109.3 dB
25 Hz: 112.3 dB

Ilkka had the following on the Ultra-13 (15 Hz mode):

16 Hz: 103.5 dB
20 Hz: 107.9 dB
25 Hz: 111.2 dB

Conventional wisdon says that the indoor measurements Noussaine uses "should" show higher SPL than the outdoor measurements Ilkka uses. In this case, conventional wisdom seems to be off. It is very likely that the Conquest will deliver more SPL than the Ultra.

Chengbin was already given an explanation that comparing 2 different sets of numbers from 2 different reviewers was not "proper". He accepted it without argument.

I am not sure why you felt the need to try to embarass him publically with the "smoking powerful (expletive deleted) and sillyness" comment, though.

In Chengbin's defense, Epik is touting the Nousaine numbers on its own website, and so have you.
post #1100 of 20356
Thread Starter 
Craig, you seriously need to stop with the condescending attitude and "father" like comments as of late. it takes a lot more than some silly comments for me to "have a total meltdown".... be real
post #1101 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

Craig, you seriously need to stop with the condescending attitude and "father" like comments as of late. it takes a lot more than some silly comments for me to "have a total meltdown".... be real

Condescending? Craig? Really? I have read a lot of posts that I would describe as "condescending" and others that have an internet gangsta flair to them and none of them were Craig's.

Tom
post #1102 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpt_Krunch View Post

Really - so you had both and this is your objective opinion? It's posters like you that drove me away from SVS to begin with. Was thinking of the new Ultra, but with vulgar posts like this, and the fact the amps blow, and the price is nearly double that of the Hsu = easy choice.

The PB13U is better than the HSU in music and movies. I'm not saying the HSU is bad, I think the HSU is a great sub, but it's just a comparison of good vs better.
Even if the amp does blow, who watches movies at full volume? Of course this is a quality issue no doubt, and SVS should fix it, but it's only affecting a few customers who either like watching movies at reference level, or to test subs.
post #1103 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpt_Krunch View Post

Really - so you had both and this is your objective opinion? It's posters like you that drove me away from SVS to begin with. Was thinking of the new Ultra, but with vulgar posts like this, and the fact the amps blow, and the price is nearly double that of the Hsu = easy choice.




Wow, this is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on this forum. You allow posts that you deem obnoxious to deter you from buying one product over the other?
post #1104 of 20356
Quote:


I keep trying, my friend. Chad has promised to get to me a quote for purchasing several subs to review. With patience, I am sure it will happen.

Bulk discount, or reviewer accomadation? Either way, good to see that you will get more than just one. Good luck.
post #1105 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by chengbin View Post

The PB13U is better than the HSU in music and movies. I'm not saying the HSU is bad, I think the HSU is a great sub, but it's just a comparison of good vs better.
Even if the amp does blow, who watches movies at full volume? Of course this is a quality issue no doubt, and SVS should fix it, but it's only affecting a few customers who either like watching movies at reference level, or to test subs.

Now that's what I'm talking about - much nicer post. But I won't say more, this is an EPIK thread and only things EPIK should be discussed here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa View Post

Wow, this is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on this forum. You allow posts that you deem obnoxious to deter you from buying one product over the other?

Yep - must be the critical thinking course I took awhile ago. Saying one thing kills another or is better than another unequivacobly makes me go hmmmmmm - whether it's here or it's at a B&M shop makes ZERO difference to me. But like I said above - this is an EPIK thread, and will keep it on the subject of EPIK - a product that looks like it could 'kill' just about anything for the price
post #1106 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Tatnall View Post

Stops on a dime as far as I can tell. Like Dennis said previously, when I compare the Tower to my SVS the SVS sounds sloppy. I didn't expect that to happen. The Tower is much closer, if not equal, to a servo than it is close to how the SVS sounds.


One more thing Brian - do you know (or can you guess) how much the Tower weighs? Curious for shipping.

Thanks!
post #1107 of 20356
Does Epik ship to Canada?
post #1108 of 20356
Mine just got here (American Samoa) today. Weighs 130lbs shipped. Cost 90 bucks to ship to Southern Cal and I paid to have it sea freighted out here to Samoa. Gonna have to try and slip outa work early to start setup! Perfect timing, since my BFD and CM-140 just arrived at work.

Will post lots of info over next 48 hrs.

Promise.
post #1109 of 20356
I know a few people have asked for more than personal impressions of an Epik Tower. Normally, I'd use all my own measurement equipment and post up results, but I was having trouble stomaching the results I was seeing. The output differences were significant in my room and I wanted to make sure that it wasn't my equipment.

So last week, I contacted Chad and asked if I could bring my Tower and PB12-Ultra and use his equipment. Chad does a ridiculous amount of GP measurements and has everything needed to properly calibrate all of his equipment.

On Friday, I took a trip to Epik with my babies and took some measurements. The measurements were taken at 2 meters with LMS software. The measurements were recorded in 5dB increments until ~10% THD was reached. Measurements were taken one after another. I mimicked Illka's procedure as much as I could.

You're probably tired of reading so here are the results:


SVS PB12-Ultra


I was happy to see that the SVS PB12-Ultra measurements have a very strong correlation to the tests that Illka ran on the same subwoofer over at HomeTheaterShack. The results were almost identical in fact and might allow the Epik numbers below to be compared to Illka's other measurements.

Epik Tower + A little Conquest


The (bright blue) lines are of the Epik Tower, while the (dark blue) line is of an Epik Conquest. Only the Epik Tower sweep was planned, but a Conquest was available too so I convinced Chad to let me test it too.

Unfortunately, it started to rain right as we were going to sweep the Conquest. I was barely able to get my Tower and didn't feel like paying for a ruined finish on a Conquest.

The gear was still sitting there from the last Tower test so, I hit the sweep really quick to catch it before the rain started pouring and then packed everything up.

I don't know how the Conquest measurement relates to total possible output from the Conquest, but it was LOUD and really makes me want to know how much louder the subwoofer can go!

Enjoy.
post #1110 of 20356
Wow, great post.. Too bad it had to rain.. I'm curious, your graph states that the sweep with the conquest at the top was max SPL but in your description you say you wonder how much louder it could go.. Was there a possibility of running a higher sweep with the conquest?

Also, according to that graph (assuming i am reading it correctly), at 16 hz it looks like its doing right about the same as the top sub in Ikkas tests... Which had 3x as much power input..
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