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Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 615

post #18421 of 20356
How do the Legend and Empire work together?

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #18422 of 20356
Not bad. Have the legend near the front of the room and the empire in the middle. I did try them in reversed locations but think it sounds better that way. Do notice the bass is being trapped in the rear corners. Considering wall absorbing treatment. My basement theater is a open area. Very large . Over 5000 Cu ft .
post #18423 of 20356
Originally I purchased my 1 empire online ,drove 100 miles to pick up my sub...once I got there, just thought since I was all that way north just get another. Well that's how I got the legend. Going from the wife aproved sunfire to a empire was going to be tough . So I got her a legend . smile.gif Well sort of. But so far we are happy with the purchase. I picked up the subs while the wife was at work . Got back home, struggled to get them in the basement 140lbs (empire)w/box. I know I need 2 subs to get a smoother even sound just couldn't get 2 empires.
post #18424 of 20356
I'm thinking of getting any empire instead of another legend just to fill out the bottom end more. Do you guys think that is a good/bad idea?
post #18425 of 20356
I'm moving out of my house into an apartment across the country and can't take my Empire with me. If anyone in the Chicago-land area is looking to buy a used Empire please send me a message.
Smitty
post #18426 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

I have no idea which one is the top one on a Legend, but usually the LFE channel is preferred generally for HT and is white, at least on my Empire and some other subs I've got. Why not just rerun Audyssey and find out and report back? Which Audyssey version do you have?

Well, I corrected my mistake and moved out the second RCA plug and now only have it connected to the LFE port. I also noticed that the crossover dial was set way down, like probably only around 50hz. I raised it all the way so hopefully my AVR (Denon 991, same as 3311 but without the preamp inputs) with MultiEQ XT will send the correct LFE. I will say after watching movies and listening to music the past few days after making the change I am noticing much more output from the Empire. I still have to run Audyssey again and will most likely do it later this week, but so far it sounds great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny555 View Post

Originally I purchased my 1 empire online ,drove 100 miles to pick up my sub...once I got there, just thought since I was all that way north just get another. Well that's how I got the legend. Going from the wife aproved sunfire to a empire was going to be tough . So I got her a legend . smile.gif Well sort of. But so far we are happy with the purchase. I picked up the subs while the wife was at work . Got back home, struggled to get them in the basement 140lbs (empire)w/box. I know I need 2 subs to get a smoother even sound just couldn't get 2 empires.

Same here with going from the Sunfire to the Empire. I actually snuck it into the house when she wasn't around and had a neighbor help me get it into place behind the TV stand (corner stand, wasted space). She didn't notice for the first few weeks, but just this past weekend I get the phone call "What the hell is that gigiantic box behind the tv?" I told her did you notice how much more I was smiling during movies?
post #18427 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by theanimala View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

I have no idea which one is the top one on a Legend, but usually the LFE channel is preferred generally for HT and is white, at least on my Empire and some other subs I've got. Why not just rerun Audyssey and find out and report back? Which Audyssey version do you have?

Well, I corrected my mistake and moved out the second RCA plug and now only have it connected to the LFE port. I also noticed that the crossover dial was set way down, like probably only around 50hz. I raised it all the way so hopefully my AVR (Denon 991, same as 3311 but without the preamp inputs) with MultiEQ XT will send the correct LFE. I will say after watching movies and listening to music the past few days after making the change I am noticing much more output from the Empire. I still have to run Audyssey again and will most likely do it later this week, but so far it sounds great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny555 View Post

Originally I purchased my 1 empire online ,drove 100 miles to pick up my sub...once I got there, just thought since I was all that way north just get another. Well that's how I got the legend. Going from the wife aproved sunfire to a empire was going to be tough . So I got her a legend . smile.gif Well sort of. But so far we are happy with the purchase. I picked up the subs while the wife was at work . Got back home, struggled to get them in the basement 140lbs (empire)w/box. I know I need 2 subs to get a smoother even sound just couldn't get 2 empires.

Same here with going from the Sunfire to the Empire. I actually snuck it into the house when she wasn't around and had a neighbor help me get it into place behind the TV stand (corner stand, wasted space). She didn't notice for the first few weeks, but just this past weekend I get the phone call "What the hell is that gigiantic box behind the tv?" I told her did you notice how much more I was smiling during movies?

FYI the crossover settings (from the dial) on the Empire is bypassed when the LFE input is used, so you could conceivably set it for when you do want to use the crossover on the Empire and change input.
post #18428 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by theanimala View Post

Well, I corrected my mistake and moved out the second RCA plug and now only have it connected to the LFE port. I also noticed that the crossover dial was set way down, like probably only around 50hz. I raised it all the way so hopefully my AVR (Denon 991, same as 3311 but without the preamp inputs) with MultiEQ XT will send the correct LFE. I will say after watching movies and listening to music the past few days after making the change I am noticing much more output from the Empire. I still have to run Audyssey again and will most likely do it later this week, but so far it sounds great.
Same here with going from the Sunfire to the Empire. I actually snuck it into the house when she wasn't around and had a neighbor help me get it into place behind the TV stand (corner stand, wasted space). She didn't notice for the first few weeks, but just this past weekend I get the phone call "What the hell is that gigiantic box behind the tv?" I told her did you notice how much more I was smiling during movies?

Makes more sense...I was wondering why you had two RCA's going in to the Empire!
post #18429 of 20356
Think it a good idea. To get another epik. Right now I'm listening to Jurassic Park..the sound effect
s are crazy.
post #18430 of 20356
always been intrigued by these subs for my small room Maggie application. Sealed dual 12's sound just delicious for music. I found a really good deal on a single Legend. Says everything is working. Ideally, if I end up loving it, I'm going to buy two more from Epik for a trio of Legends to have 6 drivers total for super smooth bass.

In fact, I'm of the mind that I would rather have even five or six Legends than just a couple of Empires. I'm in it for music, not for pants flapping LFE effects from braindead action movies.eek.giftongue.gif;) Not my thing there. Besides, multiple Legends would have to be rather ballsy.

If the amp craps out, I really hope it doesn't after reading this thread, I think I'm just going take the amp out, seal the hole with some kind of gasket and a cut of wood, and get a nice 1000 watt external subwoofer amp with a built in parametric EQ, something like that.

I don't think I would try to contact Epik for a replacement amp unless I didn't get charged for it. If I'm going to pay for an amp, might as well do it right instead of paying for something that's going to crap eventually.

First post!! And I read this whole thread.
post #18431 of 20356
They won't charge you for a new amp. Unless its out of warranty that is,which I think is 5 yrs. You'll be fine.. Also,I love the brainless action movies and it sounds great for that too wink.gif
post #18432 of 20356
The warranty on the amp is for 3 yrs, and it is non-transferable. So if you buy it used, and the amp goes, you
could just buy another from Chad/Epik.

Two Legends in a small/medium area are terrific for music....I know. They will do great with Maggies. smile.gif

vardo
post #18433 of 20356
I like action movies too biggrin.gif but just overbearing overpowering bass to me is not realistic. How many things in real life sound like a subwoofer except possibly jet engines? Most things in life, even loud things aren't going whump whump whump all around you and making your pants flap..

"Did you watch the scene in (insert movie) where it makes your pants flap?" .. yeah, that effect sounds exactly the same in every movie.

I'm pretty excited, other than the amp issues, I'm very excited for this sub, and like I said, I'll probably end up ordering several new ones later.
post #18434 of 20356
I hear ya. I don't like over bearing bass either. I think I like the sound of a sealed sub over ported.
post #18435 of 20356
I realize I'm in a pretty HT centric place, so enjoy what you enjoy. For me, it's music first. My hunch is the Legend will pair better in a planar speaker system. It's more about getting the right balance of sound and giving my system some punch.

I've been subwooferless for a while after discovering my modded maggies produce bass of far finer quality than my large ported 10, which sounded fantastic previously with my monitors. With the maggies, it became slow and sloppy.

I began the hunt for a sub, and found my interest pique'd most by these Legends.

The Empire would just be the wrong sub altogether for this system, I truly believe multiple Legends will be better. Well, I'll find out soon enough with the single. Worried though about the 25hz hump, I may have to buy an EQ in the meanwhile.
post #18436 of 20356
The legend sounds good with any speaker type. 25 hz hump?
post #18437 of 20356
There's a graph here that shows a single Legend (in that particular room at least) has a huge hump at 25 hz (caused by the internal amp EQ) and a deep dip up to 50hz. In his application, dual Legends smoothed it out.
post #18438 of 20356
Well good thing I'm getting another one soon then. smile.gif
post #18439 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by tornbetween View Post

always been intrigued by these subs for my small room Maggie application. Sealed dual 12's sound just delicious for music. I found a really good deal on a single Legend. Says everything is working. Ideally, if I end up loving it, I'm going to buy two more from Epik for a trio of Legends to have 6 drivers total for super smooth bass.

In fact, I'm of the mind that I would rather have even five or six Legends than just a couple of Empires. I'm in it for music, not for pants flapping LFE effects from braindead action movies.eek.giftongue.gif;) Not my thing there. Besides, multiple Legends would have to be rather ballsy.

If the amp craps out, I really hope it doesn't after reading this thread, I think I'm just going take the amp out, seal the hole with some kind of gasket and a cut of wood, and get a nice 1000 watt external subwoofer amp with a built in parametric EQ, something like that.

I don't think I would try to contact Epik for a replacement amp unless I didn't get charged for it. If I'm going to pay for an amp, might as well do it right instead of paying for something that's going to crap eventually.

First post!! And I read this whole thread.

Not sure I understand your logic on the multiple Legends vs multiple Empires unless the size of the box or room is an issue. The Empire is as good if not better with music, will dig a little deeper than the Legend as well and fill the room easier.

I added two 10" Infinity subs I picked up on sale recently for my bedroom and am liking the multiples so much in the living room it's got me thinking now about multiple Epiks...could be Legends for size but to have a little more and a match, another Empire might be nice, too...definitely improved music as well as movies. But after $2600 today for a dental implant, it's gonna wait...
post #18440 of 20356
Hey Lowtech1, How do you like the single Legend? What's the rest of your system like?
Edited by tornbetween - 8/8/12 at 8:58pm
post #18441 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Not sure I understand your logic on the multiple Legends vs multiple Empires unless the size of the box or room is an issue. The Empire is as good if not better with music, will dig a little deeper than the Legend as well and fill the room easier.
I added two 10" Infinity subs I picked up on sale recently for my bedroom and am liking the multiples so much in the living room it's got me thinking now about multiple Epiks...could be Legends for size but to have a little more and a match, another Empire might be nice, too...definitely improved music as well as movies. But after $2600 today for a dental implant, it's gonna wait...


Because a pair of dual 12's is no slouch, most music subwoofer installations are 12" subs, not 15's, and there isn't much definitive, actual data comparing the SQ properties of the Empire vs the Legend, and also I can get far more Legends than I can get Empires, and we all know, the more subs wins.

For music, at about the same price, my hunch is I'd prefer four Legends spread throughout the room, for a total of 8 12" drivers, rather than two Empires.

If they have basically the same SQ performance, than the multiples of Legends should easily win in my stereo.
post #18442 of 20356
And besides, I have a secret weapon at my disposal should I decide to add some low bass monsters. I have two brand new untouched Adire Brahma MK II 15" drivers in my closet. I can build some Conquest killers lol.eek.gif
post #18443 of 20356




45 lbs's each, XBL^2 SQ beasts, 32 mm Xmax.
post #18444 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by tornbetween View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Not sure I understand your logic on the multiple Legends vs multiple Empires unless the size of the box or room is an issue. The Empire is as good if not better with music, will dig a little deeper than the Legend as well and fill the room easier.
I added two 10" Infinity subs I picked up on sale recently for my bedroom and am liking the multiples so much in the living room it's got me thinking now about multiple Epiks...could be Legends for size but to have a little more and a match, another Empire might be nice, too...definitely improved music as well as movies. But after $2600 today for a dental implant, it's gonna wait...


Because a pair of dual 12's is no slouch, most music subwoofer installations are 12" subs, not 15's, and there isn't much definitive, actual data comparing the SQ properties of the Empire vs the Legend, and also I can get far more Legends than I can get Empires, and we all know, the more subs wins.

For music, at about the same price, my hunch is I'd prefer four Legends spread throughout the room, for a total of 8 12" drivers, rather than two Empires.

If they have basically the same SQ performance, than the multiples of Legends should easily win in my stereo.

You think "music" installations specifically are better suited by 12" drivers? That doesn't make a bit of sense to me...there some magical property involved by the diameter?

ps Three Legends are closer in price to two Empires...and I don't think they're slouches by any means smile.gif
post #18445 of 20356
Talk to any real audiophile, their music system has 12's, look at the ultimate Rythmik sub, it's the GR Research version, the 12" paper cone, that's the one you want for music. Pretty much all of the serious music systems, the one's that are about balance and tone, not about knocking the plaster off your walls and completely overwhelming your mains speakers, its 12's.There are exceptions of course. But look at JL audio, why is there a Fathom 12 and 13, but not an 18 or 21? ....

Again, this is for music, not home theater LFE stuff. For the big loud fart effect go crazy, get some 21's and port the hell out of them, make it so loud having mains speakers are basically pointless, so much bass you can't even talk.

If I can get into a house with a nice basement in a year, and I end up having a bunch of Legends, I could easily see myself building out the Brahma's for low low bass, have them just cover 20 hz and below, make some very large, low tuned boxes, but even then I would have the system balanced to not overpower my mains.
Edited by tornbetween - 8/8/12 at 11:15pm
post #18446 of 20356
and I would still prefer three legends to two Empires purely for the extra drivers and the overall smoother bass in the room. I don't care about max output. At normal listening levels, I have to think three legends will be just coasting along, and three subs are smoother than two every time.

again, there has been no definitive comparison between the Empire and the Legend for SQ. Certainly the Empire will be louder and have more headroom, but pound for pound I am banking on multiple legends.
post #18447 of 20356
Actually, let me bounce the question right back and put it in the extreme. Would you pick a 21" subwoofer to mate with a pair of high quality speakers in a 2.1 music system? Why? Why not? Have you ever seen a 21" woofer win an all out SQ contest? No? Why? I thought diameter and size had nothing to do with it?? What about an 18"? Winning a lot of awards for SQ? How about a 15? Getting closer. 12's and 10's? By and large this is the category of subwoofer that dominates SQ competitions.

I know this place is mainly about HT and you guys are a completely different mindset. You're all about that rumble. I'm all about having an upright bass rendered as realistically as possible, nice and snappy, nice and round.
Edited by tornbetween - 8/8/12 at 11:36pm
post #18448 of 20356
There's not a whole lot of 21in drivers around, so I'll leave ya with 3 simple letters.

L-M-S.

Its regarded as one one THE best sounding subwoofers on the planet and it's 18 inches. For the record I've owned an Empire, Sentinel, Phoenix, and dual Conquests. wink.gif
post #18449 of 20356
I know,like I said, I've read the whole thread :cool:Again, there are exceptions ($$$), but... THE BEST sounding woofers are not generally 18's. Subs that are built for SQ are generally 12's. The LMS is a nice sub, so are my Brahma's, they are very close, but I'm not looking to make these Brahma's my main subs in my stereo. Again, look at the subs that are marketed towards music, they are generally not 18's. I'll repeat my last example and can find plenty of others, the top SQ oriented Rythmik sub is the 12" paper cone, the top JL subs only go to 12" and 13" and it's not because their clients can't afford a larger size wink.gif

Again, in a home theater, were it's all about this scene or that scene, and how low and loud they got while sounding good, I'm sure the LMS's rule.


Does anyone think the Conquest had better sound quality for music than the Empire? Because I would be willing to bet the answer is no. That said, my dream sub at the moment is probably a Submersive or a VMPS, but they are not inexpensive, run of the mill 15's. 15 is about the limit for an SQ sub, I'd say, but the sweet spot is the 12.
Edited by tornbetween - 8/9/12 at 12:25am
post #18450 of 20356
I am trying to match up a sub to my newform research r645's. I have not had any subwoofer with them yet. My search based on price and all of the great feedback provided by the people who contribute to groups such as this has lead me to Epik. Music is my priority, then HT. I gather that having 2 legends would be superior to 1 empire? Currently just $100.00 difference. Main listening rm = 2300 cft with adjoining room of 1600 cft connected by 7 ft opening. Just seems that 4 X 12 has to beat 2 X 15 as long as I dont mind loosing a little below 20hz. Am I on the right track? Thanks in advance to anyones response.
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