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Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 653

post #19561 of 20356
I don't see how anyone with knowledge about what has transpired these last few several months could even consider doing business with them. We have been reading first hand experiences of people calling and emailing multiple times without a response. To me, that is all I need to know.

The fact is, even if the vast majority of the people that purchased subs from Epik either had no issues or the issues were dealt with properly and in a timely manner (we have no way to know for sure what the numbers are), then we still have damning testimony from several people that have been completely ignored by Epik. I would think that even if are one that had a pleasant experience with them in the past, you would be wise to carefully consider the experience that others have had before dealing with them again.

The big red flag for me personally is that they had enough time to read & delete posts on their Facebook wall and maybe other places as well. Not only did they delete the posts without response, but now they claim that they have been too busy to respond to legit warranty issues. If the posts are getting deleted, then you know that they were being read. If they were being read, then they could have spent 5 minutes to post something somewhere (their webpage, Facebook, here, wherever) to give some indication that they are backed up and behind on dealing with warranty issues.

I can't think of a scenario at this point in which I would even consider them an option in the future. It's just too much of a risk for me. Count me in as another that is baffled by posts of people that are standing by this company and don't seem phased by the terrible experiences others have had.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #19562 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenjaminKing View Post

I don't see how anyone with knowledge about what has transpired these last few several months could even consider doing business with them. We have been reading first hand experiences of people calling and emailing multiple times without a response. To me, that is all I need to know.

The fact is, even if the vast majority of the people that purchased subs from Epik either had no issues or the issues were dealt with properly and in a timely manner (we have no way to know for sure what the numbers are), then we still have damning testimony from several people that have been completely ignored by Epik. I would think that even if are one that had a pleasant experience with them in the past, you would be wise to carefully consider the experience that others have had before dealing with them again.

The big red flag for me personally is that they had enough time to read & delete posts on their Facebook wall and maybe other places as well. Not only did they delete the posts without response, but now they claim that they have been too busy to respond to legit warranty issues. If the posts are getting deleted, then you know that they were being read. If they were being read, then they could have spent 5 minutes to post something somewhere (their webpage, Facebook, here, wherever) to give some indication that they are backed up and behind on dealing with warranty issues.

I can't think of a scenario at this point in which I would even consider them an option in the future. It's just too much of a risk for me. Count me in as another that is baffled by posts of people that are standing by this company and don't seem phased by the terrible experiences others have had.

Its okay, Epik is about to release a game changer rolleyes.gif and get all of their customers back and everyone will be lining up to buy this new super sub.
All of the customer service problems are a thing of the past. Here have a t-shirt rolleyes.gif

Sorry as a non Epik owner this is just bashing on my part. Please ignore my post.
post #19563 of 20356
I don't care if it beats the pants out of my JTR S1's, for half the price, I still wouldn't give them a dollar. (hypothetically doubtful)

I'm sure there will be a "fire sale" at the end of the year! wink.gif Chad would be best served to totally get out of the business at this point.
post #19564 of 20356
Sure! As if any business survives on a few naysayers. You will answer and bow to AVS. Really dude! The madness of King George. Come on you know that you want to see that new line. I dare you to not look.
post #19565 of 20356
I do want to see the new line! It will be quite interesting to see how it pans out from a business point of view. Especially, if something could possibly turn out successful after "railroading" customers for such a long time.

Personally, I just do not see it. I hope he can prove me wrong. I know I could not possibly live with myself after providing that level of CS to my customers.
post #19566 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Instead of building new designs, chad should be responding to this thread and getting his previous customers taken care of...

Epik fail should be the companies slogan.

Had to laugh at that one. I am a generally satisfied owner of an Epik Empire that has served me well so far. My only complaint is that I intended to add a second one, but got stuck in limbo for several months waiting for an update from Epik. In fact, I just recently gave up on that and started looking into alternatives. I have no hard feelings against Epik, but have crossed them off of my list of viable ID providers. I dodged a bullet with AV123 as I came very close to purchasing a Rocket setup back in the day. Also owned an eD 5.1 setup with an A5-350 that would go into protect mode more often than not. My only other ID gear is from Emotiva, so I'm hoping they don't go AWOL anytime soon.
post #19567 of 20356
Quote:
I dodged a bullet with AV123 as I came very close to purchasing a Rocket setup back in the day.

That was something! They had so much going for them, quite a following.
post #19568 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by treads View Post

Had to laugh at that one. I am a generally satisfied owner of an Epik Empire that has served me well so far. My only complaint is that I intended to add a second one, but got stuck in limbo for several months waiting for an update from Epik. In fact, I just recently gave up on that and started looking into alternatives. I have no hard feelings against Epik, but have crossed them off of my list of viable ID providers. I dodged a bullet with AV123 as I came very close to purchasing a Rocket setup back in the day. Also owned an eD 5.1 setup with an A5-350 that would go into protect mode more often than not.

AV123, eD and Epik? Remind me to never buy anything from a company you even consider purchasing from... biggrin.gif
post #19569 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post

Posted a new thread but I'll put it here as well...

EPIK BLOG UPDATE
Thanks for posting the link.

Is anyone putting the customer service issues aside, and want to comment on the new 18" driver?
Quote:
This is our new 18 inch reference driver. It is nearly 80 pounds of audio engineering nirvana. It has an enormous triple stack magnet structure. We brought back our tried-and-tested silver cast frame to round out the design. In short, it is the best driver we have ever made.

What you can’t see in the picture is a full copper sleeve on the pole piece. We are not talking about throwing a little copper shorting ring above the coil like some manufacturers do, or splitting a pair above and below the magnetic gap. We are talking about a full sleeve of custom tooled copper from top to bottom. The results are sonic bliss. It provides massive output, but the musicality and lack of distortion exhibited is nothing short of breathtaking.

My technical knowledge is limited in this area, and the post didn't give any technical details, but are any sub geeks excited by this description?

Again, I'm only asking about the product and design, not the reputation of Epik.

Scott
post #19570 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by srw1000 View Post

Is anyone putting the customer service issues aside, and want to comment on the new 18" driver?

My technical knowledge is limited in this area, and the post didn't give any technical details, but are any sub geeks excited by this description?

Again, I'm only asking about the product and design, not the reputation of Epik.

There's nothing of substance in that post I'm afraid -- no TS parameters, not even enough pictures to draw a conclusion -- so it's not really possible for anyone to comment at this point.
post #19571 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by srw1000 View Post

Is anyone putting the customer service issues aside, and want to comment on the new 18" driver?

My technical knowledge is limited in this area, and the post didn't give any technical details, but are any sub geeks excited by this description?

Again, I'm only asking about the product and design, not the reputation of Epik.

There's nothing of substance in that post I'm afraid -- no TS parameters, not even enough pictures to draw a conclusion -- so it's not really possible for anyone to comment at this point.
OK, thanks. I didn't know if the triple-stack magnet structure, silver cast frame, or full copper sleeves are anything of substantive value or not.
post #19572 of 20356
I can think of a couple very successful ID subwoofer companies...one strange coincidence is they seem to interact with their customers.... Yup....right here....on the Internet!
post #19573 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by srw1000 View Post

OK, thanks. I didn't know if the triple-stack magnet structure, silver cast frame, or full copper sleeves are anything of substantive value or not.

They might be, but who knows. A car company can't show you a picture of the back of an engine and tell you it will be great. There's more to it then that.
post #19574 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

AV123, eD and Epik? Remind me to never buy anything from a company you even consider purchasing from... biggrin.gif

I know right? I'm not giving up on ID though, I'm looking at either a Rythmik or PSA for my next sub. Really, I can't complain too much. I haven't had any problems with my Empire, and I passed my eD setup down to my brother-in-law. The A5-350 is finicky, but gets the job done if not pushed too hard.
post #19575 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by treads View Post

I know right? I'm not giving up on ID though, I'm looking at either a Rythmik or PSA for my next sub. Really, I can't complain too much. I haven't had any problems with my Empire, and I passed my eD setup down to my brother-in-law. The A5-350 is finicky, but gets the job done if not pushed too hard.

I think the common denominator with all 3 of those companies was there primary business focus; sell as cheaply as possible. That's rarely a sustainable business model. When profit margins are slim so is another margin, the one for error. Slip up just a little and it often spells doom. In the case of AV123 there was corruption, and eD had cartoonish management, so both of them got an extra push over the cliff, but either way a reasonable amount of profit is an absolute necessity to make a business viable.

CHT strikes me as being in a similar position. When Craig Chase flipped out last year it looked like the end for them as well. It appears someone else may have stepped in who was a bit more grounded and rational - so they might not suffer the same fate - but for a while it seemed as though they may be the next one on the list. You didn't buy anything from them too, did you? tongue.gif
post #19576 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by treads View Post

I know right? I'm not giving up on ID though, I'm looking at either a Rythmik or PSA for my next sub. Really, I can't complain too much. I haven't had any problems with my Empire, and I passed my eD setup down to my brother-in-law. The A5-350 is finicky, but gets the job done if not pushed too hard.

I think the common denominator with all 3 of those companies was there primary business focus; sell as cheaply as possible. That's rarely a sustainable business model. When profit margins are slim so is another margin, the one for error. Slip up just a little and it often spells doom. In the case of AV123 there was corruption, and eD had cartoonish management, so both of them got an extra push over the cliff, but either way a reasonable amount of profit is an absolute necessity to make a business viable.

CHT strikes me as being in a similar position. When Craig Chase flipped out last year it looked like the end for them as well. It appears someone else may have stepped in who was a bit more grounded and rational - so they might not suffer the same fate - but for a while it seemed as though they may be the next one on the list. You didn't buy anything from them too, did you? tongue.gif

smile.gif So what does that make your average ID sub company's odds of survival? You takes your chances....caveat emptor
post #19577 of 20356
I'm not going to automatically eliminate Epik from my list of companies to buy from. I'll just assume I'll get the same level of support as if I buy something off ebay or buy something used.

If they offer a comparable sub that costs say 25% less then the competitors, then maybe it will be worth the risk.
post #19578 of 20356
It looks like the new 18" uses the same basket and magnet as the previous 18" subs. The only difference is the extra magnet. I've had two epik subs, legend and dragon. Sold them both. I probably won't do business with him again. Knowing that if anything happens to the product, it would be hard to resolve. Even if he uses a Bash or Speaker Power amps, I'd still think twice before buying. Btw, that won't happen because that will increase the price significantly.
post #19579 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

smile.gif So what does that make your average ID sub company's odds of survival? You takes your chances....caveat emptor

Quiet good, actually. There aren't too many of the remaining ID companies that seem to have the AV123/eD type of mentality, where they nickle and dime to save pennies. I'd say the current 'bang for the buck' champ is probably PSA, but anyone who has ever gotten their hands on one of those subwoofers knows they aren't cutting corners on product. Or customer service for that matter - both are top notch with PSA. That spells success. To me, virtually all of the ID companies (I'm aware of) appear to be building pretty solid products, and don't seem to have many glaring support deficiencies.

Caveat emptor could apply to any company realistically. The number of "too large to fail" companies which have gone under the past few years highlights that as a sad reality. You can slant the odds in your favor by being diligent and doing the necessary research prior to making a purchase, but that's about it I'm afraid.
post #19580 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimWilson View Post

I think the common denominator with all 3 of those companies was there primary business focus; sell as cheaply as possible. tongue.gif

I will agree with that somewhat, especially because I am admittedly a "bargain" hunter/bang for the buck type purchaser.

In the case of eD, no doubt they were the low cost provider. In fact, I wonder if their efforts to branch out and compete with higher end providers may have contributed to their downfall. At the time I purchased from them, they had a very basic product lineup. Subs were only offered in one finish (truck bed liner) and speakers were only offered in a satin black. Towards the end, they were getting into much higher end speakers and finishes, at higher price points, and higher expectations from the buyers. At the time I purchased my eD setup, I did so knowing they would be replaced down the road, but figured at their price point, it would be an easy intro into an HT setup. I had no problem finding a new home for them when the time came to upgrade.

As for AV123, however, at the time (circa 2006), I considered them at least a second tier ID co., similar to Aperion, Axiom and the like. They were certainly well reviewed in the forums at the time, had a professional website (compared to eD for example), and their products had a high end appearance. I guess the one thing that should have tipped me off to them is that they always had some sort of crazy promotion going on. Other sites would have annual or semi-annual sales and some occasional B-Stock, but AV123 always seemed to have B-Stock available in addition to monthly promotions. In any case, I'm glad I avoided them.

As for Epik, I did not perceive them at the time as being cheap. I considered them to be a step up from eD. I purchased shortly after the "Two Brothers" sub review was completed where they reviewed 5 subs in the $1,000 price range, including Epik, Rythmik, HSU, Chase, and eD. From that review, I would have placed Epik in the same league as the Rythmik and HSU, all a step above the eD and Chase options. Also at the time, there was a general consensus in the forums that the Empire was one othe "go to" subs in that price range, and the various amp issues had not really come to light yet.

All in all I am still happy with my Empire, I am just disappointed with not being able to get a second one, frustrated that I waited around several months to find out what was going on, and concerned that I may not get warranty coverage (1 year left) if something does go wrong. If I had not lived through the prior public meltdowns of AV123 and eD, I may be more willing to give Epik another shot. But with six months of silence, you knind of have to assume the worse, once you move on and start looking at other alternatives, its hard to make the case to go back to Epik.

Finally, the one lesson I guess I can take away from this experience is to look beyond the product reviews and brand loyalists (nicer word for fanboys) and look at the people behind the company. I don't mean this as anything personal against Epik, but when you look at the people behind PSA, HSU, and SVS and their track record for strong customer support, it is easier to distinguish them from other ID co's such as eD (where they tended to blame the customer first) and Epik (disappears for 6 months) regardless of how the products themselves may otherwise compare. For that reason, I am looking strongly at PSA for my next sub.
post #19581 of 20356
No offense to anyone, but considering how quickly he sold out last year--I don't think he cares if he gets all his customers back.

I've been in similar scenarios before, in my life, and sometimes there is nothing you can do.

Because of the performance I experience from my two Empires (and the fact that he was easy to get in contact with on the phone and especially on facebook) I'll be looking at the new gear with the hopes that it will outperform and ultimately replace my dual Empires--which I can still get a pretty penny for.
post #19582 of 20356
So, just how many subs did he sell in the last quarter?
post #19583 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

So, just how many subs did he sell in the last quarter?

biggrin.gif Definitely sold more T-shirts, than subs!
post #19584 of 20356
Glad to see Epik is back. Looks like they are going back to their roots somewhat with offering various models. But we'll see when there is actual product(s) for sale. Original Tower and Empire owner, and both are still pounding on strong with no hiccups. Customer service is really lax so I hope this and their amp reliability is going to be vastly improved.
post #19585 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerYakoo View Post

No offense to anyone, but considering how quickly he sold out last year--I don't think he cares if he gets all his customers back.

He sold the Legends in a fire sale probably near cost. For all we know, he only had a limited # of subs at that point to begin with.

Think about the most successful companies in other industries. Companies like Amazon, Disney, and Apple. Companies that have literally millions as many sales as Epik each year. These companies take customer service VERY serious.

If Chad "doesn't care if he gets all his customers back," that should be an indicator that you don't want to give that company your business. But, I'm sure that's not the case.... despite all the signs that would indicate otherwise... he wants/needs return customers in order to succeed.
post #19586 of 20356
While I am a current owner of 4 Epik Empire subs and have had no issues to date... I am very nervous about Chad and Epik MIA status as of the last 6 months. As for his business, I am glad to see that Epik is moving forward with a new product line and hope that the revenue he generates from this new line will assist him in staffing a better customer service staff for future concerns from his existing customer base. Even though I doubt I will purchase from Epik again due to a loss in consumer confidence, I am excited to see what he puts to market next.
post #19587 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by benunc View Post

He sold the Legends in a fire sale probably near cost. For all we know, he only had a limited # of subs at that point to begin with.

Think about the most successful companies in other industries. Companies like Amazon, Disney, and Apple. Companies that have literally millions as many sales as Epik each year. These companies take customer service VERY serious.

If Chad "doesn't care if he gets all his customers back," that should be an indicator that you don't want to give that company your business. But, I'm sure that's not the case.... despite all the signs that would indicate otherwise... he wants/needs return customers in order to succeed.
Those are publicly held companies with economies of scale. Epik is a lean privately held company that must focus on GM rather than Revenue. Customer service is indeed important. He did drop the ball there. However, I do admire his decision to not bow to the trolls/snobs here who never liked or respected him from day one. I find him a bit too reserved/quiet. Then again he would feed into the chaos we have become.
post #19588 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Schmidt View Post

While I am a current owner of 4 Epik Empire subs and have had no issues to date... I am very nervous about Chad and Epik MIA status as of the last 6 months. As for his business, I am glad to see that Epik is moving forward with a new product line and hope that the revenue he generates from this new line will assist him in staffing a better customer service staff for future concerns from his existing customer base. Even though I doubt I will purchase from Epik again due to a loss in consumer confidence, I am excited to see what he puts to market next.
+1
post #19589 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by morrischestnut60 View Post

Then again he would feed into the chaos we have become.

The chaos is of his own making though, and given how he's conducted business matters the vitriol should not be all that surprising.

Personally I'm ambivalent to the man and the brand -- I never had any dealings with Chad, and have heard a pair of Legends only briefly -- so to me it doesn't matter one way or the other. How he's been handling the situation is what has me upset, and I haven't even lost a dime. I just can't stand when this type of thing happens.

For good or bad, ID companies live and die by the internet. That's their chosen business model, so to show such negligence in that very arena strikes me as a death knell. Brick and mortar may be able to survive similar behavior, but an ID company will find it far more difficult (impossible?) to perform the Phoenix trick given the circumstances.

Not everyone who is disturbed by this behavior has an axe to grind; there are those of us who are merely concerned about the overall impression something like this gives to the entire ID sector. With the ignominious manner in which several ID companies have imploded recently one begins to wonder if it will cast a pall on the others. Collateral damage, if you will. Until recently I never believed it would have an effect, but now even I'm beginning to wonder. I fully buy into the ID concept, but others may shun it now. That would be unfortunate.
post #19590 of 20356
Quote:
to perform the Phoenix trick

Ha!.. good descriptive
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