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Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 663

post #19861 of 20356
I have two Empire's that work flawlessly and I've enjoyed them for the last 1.5 years but I've recently gotten the upgrade bug and purchased another AVS members DIY 18" subs and now have the DIY bug and want to build a few more.

Although they work great, now that Epik is obviously out of business with no support, I really don't know what to list these for?

Suggestions on price?

Anyone interested? I have both boxes/packing materials, don't mind shipping or local pickup in Southern, OH but really don't know what to try to get out of these.

I'm trying to fund another two dual opposed (4 drivers) SI 18" build as I'm very happy with the additional output and extension I've gotten in my huge 4500+ cu ft concrete bunker but now that I've gotten a peak as to what's possible, I think swapping the Empire's for two more of these DIY guys will get me much closer to my goal.

Thanks,

--Jason

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #19862 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by jevansoh View Post

I have two Empire's that work flawlessly and I've enjoyed them for the last 1.5 years but I've recently gotten the upgrade bug and purchased another AVS members DIY 18" subs and now have the DIY bug and want to build a few more.

Although they work great, now that Epik is obviously out of business with no support, I really don't know what to list these for?

Suggestions on price?

Anyone interested? I have both boxes/packing materials, don't mind shipping or local pickup in Southern, OH but really don't know what to try to get out of these.

I'm trying to fund another two dual opposed (4 drivers) SI 18" build as I'm very happy with the additional output and extension I've gotten in my huge 4500+ cu ft concrete bunker but now that I've gotten a peak as to what's possible, I think swapping the Empire's for two more of these DIY guys will get me much closer to my goal.

Thanks,

--Jason

If the subs are in good shape, I would guess you could probably get around $500 + shipping for each of them. Buying a used empire isn't much different than buying a used sub that is no longer in production.
post #19863 of 20356
I would agree that 450-500 plus shipping would be fair if they are in good shape and never had an issue. I put mine on sale here for a short while (local pickup only) but decided to keep it and integrate it with my new subs.

The fact that you are willing to ship should be a big help as most people don't want to bother. Did you keep the pallets as well?
post #19864 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

I agree. If one of my subs fails, I'm not even going to try to contact Epik. My time is too valuable to waste on something that will likely be fruitless.

I've recently ordered a Behringer inuke NU3000 to power my non-working Empire - I gave up on Epik a while ago, obviously.

I measured the impedance using a DMM across the drivers and got around 3 ohms, IIRC . Anyway, it means the drivers are OK, and I'll see how well the NU3000 does in powering it in non-bridged mode into "4 ohms", so that I can expect to use the other channel for the other Empire eventually.

I trashed the non-functional "Epik" plate amp by removing most of the components and boards/daughter boards, and mounted/wired a female 1/4" jack to it so I can plug a cable directly in. Hopefully I will receive the new amp by this weekend, although I may be too occupied with other activities to do anything, and will have to wait until later next week to see how it works.

shinksma
post #19865 of 20356
Yes, please let us know how that works. That would be my first choice if mine ever dies rather than trying to find a replacement amp that would work/fit.
post #19866 of 20356
post #19867 of 20356
I haven't been on AVS for a very long time (for roughly a year) and just read the last couple of pages.

I have five Epik Empires. Four are downstairs running alongside my four SubMersive HD's, and one is upstairs. I purchased the first four almost immediately after they were introduced. I was the first person here on AVS to purchase quads. He gave me a steep discount on them before he introduced the option to purchase quads on the website. He even credited me for shipping when he was able to ship them for $150 less than he anticipated (I did select the option to pick them up at the dock to save on shipping though). At any rate, all of these Empires have been rock solid.

The one I have upstairs did have an amp failure. I purchased it roughly a year after the first four. Chad promptly sent me a replacement, and I have had no problems with it since.

I am hoping that my original four Empires were built with a quality batch of amps. I use them daily, so I think they must have been. I am also hoping that my other Empire will be okay since the amp has already been replaced once.

The odds don't seem to be in my favor though.

P.S. Oddly enough Chad has replied to every email I have sent him, as well as, answered the phone every time I have called.
post #19868 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post


P.S. Oddly enough Chad has replied to every email I have sent him, as well as, answered the phone every time I have called.

Sadly that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.It is nice to know that your original purchase of quad empires are still running strong though.I hope mine fares as well.
post #19869 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma View Post

I've recently ordered a Behringer inuke NU3000 to power my non-working Empire - I gave up on Epik a while ago, obviously.

I measured the impedance using a DMM across the drivers and got around 3 ohms, IIRC . Anyway, it means the drivers are OK, and I'll see how well the NU3000 does in powering it in non-bridged mode into "4 ohms", so that I can expect to use the other channel for the other Empire eventually.

I trashed the non-functional "Epik" plate amp by removing most of the components and boards/daughter boards, and mounted/wired a female 1/4" jack to it so I can plug a cable directly in. Hopefully I will receive the new amp by this weekend, although I may be too occupied with other activities to do anything, and will have to wait until later next week to see how it works.

shinksma

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppaC View Post

Yes, please let us know how that works. That would be my first choice if mine ever dies rather than trying to find a replacement amp that would work/fit.

And here is the news...

The Behringer inuke NU3000 is a suitable replacement for the stock Empire amplifier, IMO. I only needed to use one channel, so the other channel is available should my other Empire's amp fail.

A few things needed to be adjusted to get it rockin' and rollin', though:

I use a Behringer DSP1124 for Room EQ. On that unit I needed to set the signal level to "Pro Audio" (+4dBu) instead of the "Home Recording Level" (-10dBV) I had previously been using. This boosted the output level to the amp sufficiently - using consumer/home recording level the amp couldn't put out much even with gain all the way up and my receiver's SW channel boosted 3dB, it was barely registering one light out of four (five?) of signal. Once switched to +4dB I was hitting the clip signal level easily (backed it off from there, obviously).

I had wired up the Empire's speakers to a 1/4" jack, and had to make a guess as to relative phase. I guessed wrong, and I had to switch the phase on my other Empire to get them working together. Out-of-phase bass is very anemic, oddly enough. I may re-wire my (now passive) Empire to swap phase. Actually, I should do some test measurements using REW to see if the system is now in better phase with my mains first.

The inuke fan is indeed noisy. I'll live with it for a while, but I will undoubtedly be doing a fan swap eventually.

I have not used any kind of High-pass Filter for the amp input (e.g. 16 Hz HPF, to remove deep subsonics the Empire drivers may not be designed to take). I will be watching my drivers for misbehaviour on certain material, but there is so little material down that deep I am not sure it will ever be an issue. Still, a few dollars for a capacitor and connectors seems like cheap insurance. On the other hand, maybe the Empire drivers can handle deep material (< 14Hz), but due to the design of the stock amp, with its built-in HPF at 20Hz and boost at 25Hz, the Empire drivers never got to see that stuff.

I really wish we had data on these drivers.

shinksma
post #19870 of 20356
You could measure the Epik driver parameters using the following kit: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=390-806
post #19871 of 20356
One of my two Legends failed three weeks ago. I have sent three emails and left a message on the answering machine and have received no response. When it first failed, I called and Chad answered, suggesting to check the fuse. It was blown and I replaced it but it immediately blew again on power on. Since then I haven't been able to reach him. I'm hoping he's just on vacation, but it's beginning to look like I'm screwed with getting a new amp - under warranty, barely.
post #19872 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by moovtune View Post

One of my two Legends failed three weeks ago. I have sent three emails and left a message on the answering machine and have received no response. When it first failed, I called and Chad answered, suggesting to check the fuse. It was blown and I replaced it but it immediately blew again on power on. Since then I haven't been able to reach him. I'm hoping he's just on vacation, but it's beginning to look like I'm screwed with getting a new amp - under warranty, barely.

My condolences, as it were.

You can try for a while and see how it goes getting a replacement amp, but Chad has certainly lost all of my faith.

I'm not sure if there is a plate amp replacement that fits in nicely, but if not, you could try the outboard amp solution as I have done...

shinksma
post #19873 of 20356
Good to see you around Counsil.

Shinksma, if you have measurement gear could pull them out to middle of room and nearfield measure working empire vs. the passive one to set up same eq between the units. This ensures both performing the same and phase match (eq and filters affect phase) Per data-bass "The Empire is apparently boosted near 20Hz to extend the frequency response, but the filter seems to be a high pass so it will not be able to make good use of room gain if it is present in the very deep bass like an unfiltered sealed subwoofer would." Just a thought. Good to hear got the down sub up and going again.smile.gif
post #19874 of 20356
Well I've been trying to locate a plate amp to replace the one that failed a couple of weeks ago with zero luck. None of the amps I've come across seem to have the same or even similar dimensions. I decided the best option was to purchase an external rack amp for the sub and make a blank plate with speaker posts to cover the hole. In order to keep both of my Sentinels 'matched', I'll be removing the working amp from my other sub (I ordered 2 ch amp). If anyone is interested in this amp, I'm open to any offers. It has had very light use since I bought the Sentinels new in late 2009. BTW, the cabinet and driver were both top notch! I was actually pretty pleasantly surprised when I pulled the sub apart.

10812461714_fc8f5787ac_c.jpg

10812571423_b8e77c9fec_c.jpg
Edited by lilmike2069 - 11/11/13 at 8:27pm
post #19875 of 20356
Hey those drivers are beefy. I have the Dragon and the amp still works. I think the closest amp are far as the dimension goes, is the 500 watts Bash amp offered by Parts Express. I think the width is off by 1/2 and inch or something. So the cabinet may have to be revised a bit to fit the Bash amp. Give it a try.
post #19876 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by irvin View Post

Hey those drivers are beefy. I have the Dragon and the amp still works. I think the closest amp are far as the dimension goes, is the 500 watts Bash amp offered by Parts Express. I think the width is off by 1/2 and inch or something. So the cabinet may have to be revised a bit to fit the Bash amp. Give it a try.

Thanks for the suggestion but I've already ordered my replacement amp. I checked out the one you recommended and it is too short by ~1/2" in one direction and too long ~3/4" in the other. And yea, I was surprised at how beefy the drivers are... they're friggin heavy!
post #19877 of 20356
Purchased a pair of Legends about 3 years ago and one of the amps blew a few weeks ago. Tried contacting Epik several times by phone and email with no luck. Based on dozens of recent posts, it looks like the company went belly-up. Like others on the board, I am thinking of converting both subs to passive and buying an outboard sub amp(s) to drive them. thinking about stacking the subs and using the Dayton Audio SA1000 which hopefully would allow both subs to share the same gain & phase setting. The other option would be buying two Dayton SA230 amps and keeping both subs separate.

My questions are:

A) Has anyone used either,amp? If so, how do they perform?

B) Any quality alternatives out there which would easily drive the legends?

C) Would the Dayton SA 230 class A/B amp be as robust as the class D 300 watt stock plate amp?

Any help would be appreciated.
post #19878 of 20356
^ That amp has a specified minimum load of 4Ohms. If you run both Epik's (I'm assuming they're 4 Ohm load each since that's what mine are) then you are going to risk frying that amp since the combined load would be 2 Ohm. I ended up ordering the Crown XLS 1500. It is a 2 CH amp that supplies 550Wx2 @4Ohm or 775Wx2 @2Ohm.
post #19879 of 20356
Thank you for the advice. The more I read, the more I believe pro amps are going to be the answer. I will look into the crown you mentioned.
post #19880 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike2069 View Post

^ That amp has a specified minimum load of 4Ohms. If you run both Epik's (I'm assuming they're 4 Ohm load each since that's what mine are) then you are going to risk frying that amp since the combined load would be 2 Ohm. I ended up ordering the Crown XLS 1500. It is a 2 CH amp that supplies 550Wx2 @4Ohm or 775Wx2 @2Ohm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJB1023 View Post

Thank you for the advice. The more I read, the more I believe pro amps are going to be the answer. I will look into the crown you mentioned.

Do you not have to consider eq or will you be using outboard eq? Without outboard eq would think something in the Crown CTi series might be better, unless it also rolls off below 20hz (XLS Drivecore series from what I know starts to roll off below 20hz; have two XLS 1500s but not on sub duty but might make me think about that depending on the sub, for my Empire should that amp fail it might be okay but wonder about yours).
post #19881 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post


Do you not have to consider eq or will you be using outboard eq? Without outboard eq would think something in the Crown CTi series might be better, unless it also rolls off below 20hz (XLS Drivecore series from what I know starts to roll off below 20hz; have two XLS 1500s but not on sub duty but might make me think about that depending on the sub, for my Empire should that amp fail it might be okay but wonder about yours).

For me, I'll be relying mostly on Audyssey MultEQ which has a pretty decent Subwoofer EQ. If that isn't sufficient, I'll probably purchase a separate rack mount EQ for this purpose. I have a feeling Audyssey will be sufficient though. Not to mention, the Crown CTs (couldn't find CTi) models are twice as much. I do have a way of measuring in room response and took measurements a few years ago when I first got the subs so we'll be able to make comparisons.

Edit: My old measurements seem to be deleted but I think I remember being -3db down at around 16.5-17Hz in room. And my room has terrible acoustics.
post #19882 of 20356
I was also planning on using the Audyssey eq built into my Marantz receiver. Wish I knew more about the original plate amp so that I could figure out how much boost it provided and at what frequency.
post #19883 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike2069 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post


Do you not have to consider eq or will you be using outboard eq? Without outboard eq would think something in the Crown CTi series might be better, unless it also rolls off below 20hz (XLS Drivecore series from what I know starts to roll off below 20hz; have two XLS 1500s but not on sub duty but might make me think about that depending on the sub, for my Empire should that amp fail it might be okay but wonder about yours).

For me, I'll be relying mostly on Audyssey MultEQ which has a pretty decent Subwoofer EQ. If that isn't sufficient, I'll probably purchase a separate rack mount EQ for this purpose. I have a feeling Audyssey will be sufficient though. Not to mention, the Crown CTs (couldn't find CTi) models are twice as much. I do have a way of measuring in room response and took measurements a few years ago when I first got the subs so we'll be able to make comparisons.

Edit: My old measurements seem to be deleted but I think I remember being -3db down at around 16.5-17Hz in room. And my room has terrible acoustics.

The empire uses eq/dsp in it's amp for its lower end response (see the data-bass.com review). I wouldn't rely even on my Audyssey MultEQXT, or even MultEQXT32 with SubEQ for that range of eq. Not familiar with your sub's ground plane specs in any case.

I misremembered CTi, believe it's rather the XTi series....
post #19884 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

The empire uses eq/dsp in it's amp for its lower end response (see the data-bass.com review). I wouldn't rely even on my Audyssey MultEQXT, or even MultEQXT32 with SubEQ for that range of eq. Not familiar with your sub's ground plane specs in any case.

I misremembered CTi, believe it's rather the XTi series....

I'm not too worried about it. I can't imagine a cheap Chinese amp being that special. http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/1405803338/Manufacturer_OEM_500W_RMS_4ohm_Professional.html
post #19885 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike2069 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

The empire uses eq/dsp in it's amp for its lower end response (see the data-bass.com review). I wouldn't rely even on my Audyssey MultEQXT, or even MultEQXT32 with SubEQ for that range of eq. Not familiar with your sub's ground plane specs in any case.

I misremembered CTi, believe it's rather the XTi series....

I'm not too worried about it. I can't imagine a cheap Chinese amp being that special. http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/1405803338/Manufacturer_OEM_500W_RMS_4ohm_Professional.html

Thought your sub dug deeper for some reason....or is that not the actual original amp, but a guess?
post #19886 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Thought your sub dug deeper for some reason....or is that not the actual original amp, but a guess?

I'm pretty sure that is the exact amp. The back of the plate reads "SD-50 (Epik)" and the photos are identical. My in room response 4 years ago measured -3db @ ~16.5 Hz. That is plenty deep to me. Me research has revealed that the -3db for Crown XLS amps is 10Hz. I know for sure that Audyssey MultEQ will boost 20Hz from my original measurements several years ago. I had even posted measurements before Audyssey (which had a major drop off below something like 25Hz) and measurements After enabling Audyssey, which went flat to 20Hz and down 3db around 16.5Hz. Either way, we'll see shortly as my amp should arrive thursday. I have to machine a plate to fill the hole, but after that, it's play time.
post #19887 of 20356
Hey lilmike you ordered that amp from alibaba wow how much was it. Looks just like my Dragon amp.
post #19888 of 20356
I looked on the site its says minimum of 500 pieces they let you order 1. Wow that's awesome.
post #19889 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by irvin View Post

Hey lilmike you ordered that amp from alibaba wow how much was it. Looks just like my Dragon amp.

I did NOT order that amp. That is (what I believe is) the original Epik amp.
Edited by lilmike2069 - 11/13/13 at 10:38am
post #19890 of 20356
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinksma View Post


And here is the news...

The Behringer inuke NU3000 is a suitable replacement for the stock Empire amplifier, IMO. I only needed to use one channel, so the other channel is available should my other Empire's amp fail.

(other stuff deleted)

The inuke fan is indeed noisy. I'll live with it for a while, but I will undoubtedly be doing a fan swap eventually.

So I ordered a Noctua NF-R8 fan to replace the stock fan in the inuke. I took longer than planned doing the swap because my original plan of simply plugging and playing was not an appropriate solution in my estimation, since the Noctua fan connector, even the small one, is far larger than the stock inuke fan connector, and does not mate firmly to the pins on the main board. So I spliced and soldered the new fan in using the old connector.

Result: the new fan is essentially silent, for my purposes. Yeah, it is probably not truly silent if I had a perfectly quiet room, but sitting on top of my kitchen table, with shroud and cover restored, I couldn't hear it, whereas the stock beastie is like a business projector cooling fan.

I have not exercised it with heavy loads with the new fan yet - the significant other is watching some recorded TV shows right now. I will certainly see about how it behaves with some extended high-energy use, and hopefully get the same results as others - no overheating, just nicely silent cooling.

shinksma
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