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Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 671

post #20101 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

I don't know, graphicguy but I smell a new company coming...Elementally Epik 123.
I agree. There was no way he'd be able to sell new subs under the Epik name. So, lets get rid of anything associated w Epik. Then release new subs under a new company name, partner? I bet he wont run the phones or have his name mentioned at the new company. It sure smells like new a ID sub company coming soon. What else do you do w all these new designs that he spent a year and a half with? Rebrand!

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #20102 of 20355
I'm a little sad that I'll never get to see the new sub that was coming soon last July. frown.gif

wink.gif
post #20103 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Call him up acting like a new customer wanting to cash in on these deals and then spring it on him that you want to know what's going on with your warranty.

which is exactly why the ad says if you want to buy, you must order direct online.
post #20104 of 20355
Since this is basically over..

Anyone with a Empire within a few hr drive of either Detroit Mi or Chicago with a dead amp either interested in selling or loan it out for a while?

I am looking into developing an amp solution similar to what I did with the Turbo kit for the MFW-15 and UFW-12. Nice thing is with this it will be amp only!!!

The plan is a drop in 1000W amp with limiting and EQ specific for the sub. Or a custom block off plate and external amp.
post #20105 of 20355
I haven't checked this thread in a couiple of years and just came to check after getting the going out of business email. Sounds like a lot of people got screwed and I hate it for them.

I've still got my Valor that I bought new almost six years ago. Never had a single issue with it. I'm still very happy with it and I'll keep it till it dies.
post #20106 of 20355
LOL.

Now, between my 4 rooms with 5.1 setups, I have exactly one either sub (an SVS 16-46 PC+) or speaker that was built by a company that still exists. I have a house full of Epik stuff and AV123 stuff. I still love the hell out of my Conquest (though I had to get the amp replaced once), and have had no problems with my Legend.

I suppose that, once the Conquest dies, I'll just send that 200+ lbs to scrap (though I have no idea how I will do that -- not like the garbage man will pick it up...), and get an SVS or, if I'm feeling bold and stupid, a PSA Triax (though you'd think I learned my lesson after all these years).
post #20107 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanii19 View Post

OMG!! SO GLAD I SOLD OFF MY EPIK FOR A SVS PB13ultra!!!

That was me that bought it you prick. wink.gif

Honestly though, I wish I never saw this email. I've been out of the loop so long it would have been nice to maintain my blissful ignorance on the no-more-warranty issue. Now everytime I hear my two empires pop on I'll cringe and pray it wasn't the last time.
post #20108 of 20355
I bought the last xxl t shirt. Then looked on here with all the hate towards the company. Now im not sure if I want to even wear it :/
post #20109 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by neumei626 View Post

That was me that bought it you prick. wink.gif

Honestly though, I wish I never saw this email. I've been out of the loop so long it would have been nice to maintain my blissful ignorance on the no-more-warranty issue. Now everytime I hear my two empires pop on I'll cringe and pray it wasn't the last time.

What do they say, worry is tax paid on a bill that has yet to come due.

Sit back and enjoy. If the fateful day comes worry then.
post #20110 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by neumei626 View Post

That was me that bought it you prick. wink.gif

Honestly though, I wish I never saw this email. I've been out of the loop so long it would have been nice to maintain my blissful ignorance on the no-more-warranty issue. Now everytime I hear my two empires pop on I'll cringe and pray it wasn't the last time.

Although the warranty issue really sucks, at least you can modify your empires to be passive and connect them to an external amp.
post #20111 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocShemp View Post

Although the warranty issue really sucks, at least you can modify your empires to be passive and connect them to an external amp.

Can you do that with the Conquest?

I guess I should rephrase that -- can someone do that with the Conquest? That proprietary 1000W amp was allegedly specially designed for the Conquest.
post #20112 of 20355
post #20113 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanii19 View Post

I bought the last xxl t shirt. Then looked on here with all the hate towards the company. Now im not sure if I want to even wear it :/

Lol I was thinking the same thing looking at those. If the wrong person passes you in the street you're liable to catch a bullet. Just keep your head down and watch your back, you should be fine tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozzie Isaac View Post

What do they say, worry is tax paid on a bill that has yet to come due.

Sit back and enjoy. If the fateful day comes worry then.

I like the way you think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RocShemp View Post

Although the warranty issue really sucks, at least you can modify your empires to be passive and connect them to an external amp.

Very true, the cabinet and drivers are probably 65% of the cost of the sub so this would probably only result in a net loss of 35ish%. Much more tolerable. Especially considering the concept presented above.
post #20114 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOrlnsDukie View Post

Can you do that with the Conquest?

I guess I should rephrase that -- can someone do that with the Conquest? That proprietary 1000W amp was allegedly specially designed for the Conquest.


I second that question. I have a set of Conquests and was wondering of a good solution for when the day comes.
post #20115 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by neumei626 View Post

That was me that bought it you prick. wink.gif

Honestly though, I wish I never saw this email. I've been out of the loop so long it would have been nice to maintain my blissful ignorance on the no-more-warranty issue. Now everytime I hear my two empires pop on I'll cringe and pray it wasn't the last time.

I just about fell over laughing!!
post #20116 of 20355
I'm sorry to see it end this way. I've been happy with my Phoenix for the past 4.5 years, and was glad to have it back in service after the amp went bad last year. The Epik products were a great value for the money, at least until some of the amps started going bad.

Chad did some great design work, it's too bad the business side couldn't make it.

Scott
post #20117 of 20355
I haven't follow avsforum in a while but this doesn't come as a surprise. It did seem that he has had issues for over a year now. People just never learn. AV123 prime example. Lots of moron stood up for them and got crap blown up in their face. Also Elemental designs. Remember being on vacation early 2011 and reading up mounting problems from multiple owners yet there seems to be a loud bunch defending them to the death.....I remember a specific large thread with the owner pointing out the issues. Anyway, I have the epik tower that was built before 2010. I believe this thing will last me for awhile as it was made here in the US with bash amp from canada. Really is an awesome sub. I think it was around the time when the Empires were introduced that he started outsourcing amps and parts to China....sigh...
post #20118 of 20355
Chad was lousy at CS and he effectively went BK over a year ago and has now made it official.

Having said that...

I think many of us are going overboard saying he screwed a lot of people or he had bad intentions. I see him as someone who made a good product at a good price and his company went bankrupt. It happens all the time. I don't think he's a criminal. I don't think he intentionally used faulty amps. He had to use inexpensive amps to sell at his price point and his manufacturer screwed him. It's not like he's the first manufacturer to be screwed by a Chinese supplier. He couldn't afford to replace all the bad amps with good amps and remain in business, so he shut down. He should have announced bankruptcy at the beginning of 2013, so at least people wouldn't have wasted time trying to get warranty service. Maybe he thought his business could recover.

I own a legend and empire and if they go bad (they still work fine), i'll probably take them to the dump and get something else. I don't think it's worth it to repair them and getting angry doesn't solve anything. They're just inexpensive subwoofers. They're not $30k cars.
post #20119 of 20355
Amen!
post #20120 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

Chad was lousy at CS and he effectively went BK over a year ago and has now made it official.

Having said that...

I think many of us are going overboard saying he screwed a lot of people or he had bad intentions. I see him as someone who made a good product at a good price and his company went bankrupt. It happens all the time. I don't think he's a criminal. I don't think he intentionally used faulty amps. He had to use inexpensive amps to sell at his price point and his manufacturer screwed him. It's not like he's the first manufacturer to be screwed by a Chinese supplier. He couldn't afford to replace all the bad amps with good amps and remain in business, so he shut down. He should have announced bankruptcy at the beginning of 2013, so at least people wouldn't have wasted time trying to get warranty service. Maybe he thought his business could recover.

I own a legend and empire and if they go bad (they still work fine), i'll probably take them to the dump and get something else. I don't think it's worth it to repair them and getting angry doesn't solve anything. They're just inexpensive subwoofers. They're not $30k cars.
Well, that's one way to look at it. Here's another one. Let's start with the premise that Chad is basically a decent person whose intention was never to screw anyone over. Let us also realize that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

In the market Chad played in, the subs he sold are commodities. They're available from numerous sources just like sugar, orange juice, automobile tires, kitchen appliances, and so forth. Fighting for market share is not easy. The cost to build a sub is not only the parts but the labor, his fixed costs such as leasing space, utilities, advertising, packaging, labor, taxes, his salary, etc. At the selling price, there's a certain amount of profit and in order to cover all these expenses, he's got to sell a certain amount of subs a month. I suspect that he could not meet his minimum sales goals which may have necessitated him taking an outside job. That explains in part at least why he was difficult to get a hold of.

The Chicago area is not the cheapest or the most tax friendly place to do business. Had he been able to relocate to TX, NV, FL, or elsewhere he could have improved matters. OTOH, maybe he rewarded himself too generously.

Likely for competitive reasons, his warranty was longer than a year. He figured on a certain failure rate but I certainly doubt he actually could reasonably estimate it. From the posts here, it seems like he guessed wrong. By running through his supply of spares he probably found himself running through stock that was expected to find its way into finished product. Unless you know what you're doing, these multi year warranty on amps are dangerous. A better choice, would have been to offer one year with additional years at increasingly extra costs. Look at what happened with Emotiva and their. ultra subs. Five year warranty. Can't get them fixed, can't get them repaired, and there are reports of people wh two years into ownership are stuck with turds. According to Emotiva's warranty, they offer as an option your money back. Well, that's great but not so great for Emotiva. IMO, they'll take an overall loss on that venture.

Oh, and for the record, Epik Subwoofers was never registered with the IL Secretary of State as a business entity. FWIW, Seaton is.
post #20121 of 20355
Intentional or not, the end result is the same! Consumers who believed in and took a chance on his product are out money.

Good business man or not, if he was that decent of a person, he should have manned up and admitted that the bottom had fell out of his business, and as a result he was going to have to , blah, blah, blah! Even now, he's trying to sell stuff off.

All the unreturned calls and emails are absolutely unacceptable, especially for a business that relies on word of mouth. I bailed on Epik and sold off my Sentinel when I wanted a second one 6 months after I bought it, and he was switching to the Empire only product line. That in concert with him being hard to get a hold of even then, when sales were strong. I decided then that he didn't deserve anymore of my money. In spite of that, I was still rooting for him. I just couldn't justify investing any further in him or is products.
post #20122 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Well, that's one way to look at it. Here's another one. Let's start with the premise that Chad is basically a decent person whose intention was never to screw anyone over. Let us also realize that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

In the market Chad played in, the subs he sold are commodities. They're available from numerous sources just like sugar, orange juice, automobile tires, kitchen appliances, and so forth. Fighting for market share is not easy. The cost to build a sub is not only the parts but the labor, his fixed costs such as leasing space, utilities, advertising, packaging, labor, taxes, his salary, etc. At the selling price, there's a certain amount of profit and in order to cover all these expenses, he's got to sell a certain amount of subs a month. I suspect that he could not meet his minimum sales goals which may have necessitated him taking an outside job. That explains in part at least why he was difficult to get a hold of.

The Chicago area is not the cheapest or the most tax friendly place to do business. Had he been able to relocate to TX, NV, FL, or elsewhere he could have improved matters. OTOH, maybe he rewarded himself too generously.

Likely for competitive reasons, his warranty was longer than a year. He figured on a certain failure rate but I certainly doubt he actually could reasonably estimate it. From the posts here, it seems like he guessed wrong. By running through his supply of spares he probably found himself running through stock that was expected to find its way into finished product. Unless you know what you're doing, these multi year warranty on amps are dangerous. A better choice, would have been to offer one year with additional years at increasingly extra costs. Look at what happened with Emotiva and their. ultra subs. Five year warranty. Can't get them fixed, can't get them repaired, and there are reports of people wh two years into ownership are stuck with turds. According to Emotiva's warranty, they offer as an option your money back. Well, that's great but not so great for Emotiva. IMO, they'll take an overall loss on that venture.

Oh, and for the record, Epik Subwoofers was never registered with the IL Secretary of State as a business entity. FWIW, Seaton is.
I never understood the point of restating the obvious over and over and over and over and over again. eek.gif Is it a cut and paste? biggrin.gif
post #20123 of 20355
Couldn't agree with you more! The red flags are never given enough weight and never mentioned in reviews. Just excuses like he's too busy. Apologists.
post #20124 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

I don't know, graphicguy but I smell a new company coming...Elementally Epik 123.

Chu....never bought anything from eD. Had issues with HSU, but they're still in business, to my knowlwdge. Epik is now gone, but the 2 subs I bought from Chad have been rock solid. I have a sub and somr electronics from EMOTIVA. They're still around, and their products are solid, too. AV123....totally different animal. We know that was a moral failure by their owner that caused them to fail.

My current configuration(s) have been static for a couple of years. Probably stay out of the market for a while.
post #20125 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by trolly View Post

I saw an earlier post where someone identified Epik's amp manufacturer and they had a 1000 watt version that seemed to have the same dimensions as the stock Empire amp. The Empire cabinet seems really well built.....I'm wondering about the feasibility of changing out the stock drivers and sort of supercharging the Empire. I keep thinking about the Turbo kit that came out for the MFW-15.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandbagger View Post

Since this is basically over..

Anyone with a Empire within a few hr drive of either Detroit Mi or Chicago with a dead amp either interested in selling or loan it out for a while?

I am looking into developing an amp solution similar to what I did with the Turbo kit for the MFW-15 and UFW-12. Nice thing is with this it will be amp only!!!

The plan is a drop in 1000W amp with limiting and EQ specific for the sub. Or a custom block off plate and external amp.

Sandbagger...I was dreaming about this last February. Would the Empire's stock drivers hold up?
post #20126 of 20355
Dont know why not.

I work the limit circuit in the amp to play nice with the driver so you cant(within reason) blow it up.

I havent had a single complaint about the Turbo making funny noises or a damaged driver. except for the one that got dropped from about 20ft on the basket eek.gif

Would really like to get my hands on one for a while to work something out

Kevin
Quote:
Originally Posted by trolly View Post


Sandbagger...I was dreaming about this last February. Would the Empire's stock drivers hold up?
post #20127 of 20355
I fixed my Empire!!! - see below or read my story - I too have been trying to contact Epik via email and phone for the last month due to what I thought was an amp issue. I wouldn't attempt to work on it either worried about voiding my faux warranty.
Anyway - after I got the disturbing email from Chad about "Business is closing - oh btw buy all this old stock while I don't honor my warranty" I was furious.
I thought about buying the replacement amp and then contesting on the credit card - then Chad would have to talk to someone.
Anyway - I decided I wasn't going to gamble on Chad or the amp - I was going to take my Empire apart as soon as I got home.

Description of problem - I would turn my Empire on - light would come on Green and as soon as a low signal came on sub would make slight low crackle noise on one side and green light would fade out and it would not power on for 10-15 min. It would power on later but would repeat problem.

I first removed amp - upon removal I looked it over for any burns or melts and it looked fine - the only thing that was concerning was the very small heat sink. The enclosure was jammed with polyfill - I mean jammed!


I then removed the speaker on the side that made the crackle - I immediately noticed the two leads going to woofer had fused together! I instinctively touched them and gently rolled them between my fingers breaking the bond before I took pic - sorry. Anyway - it looks like the leads may have been angled at each other when soldered to terminal causing them to touch during excursion. Anyway - here is pic right after - you can see how they were shaped as if they had mated.


With this being the secondary sub in the series I turned the amp on and it worked driving the one woofer. I then reinstalled secondary sub and it seems to be working fine. I may re-solder that woofer at the terminal and reverse the angle of the leads but I reinstalled both subs in a way where I can view the leads by removing the amp. This amp must have some decent protection?

I hope this helps some -
Kiser
post #20128 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by sandbagger View Post

Dont know why not.

I work the limit circuit in the amp to play nice with the driver so you cant(within reason) blow it up.

I havent had a single complaint about the Turbo making funny noises or a damaged driver. except for the one that got dropped from about 20ft on the basket eek.gif

Would really like to get my hands on one for a while to work something out

Kevin

I hope you find a donor...I've read great things about your turbo kit for the MFW-15
post #20129 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by bek1973 View Post

I fixed my Empire!!! - see below or read my story - I too have been trying to contact Epik via email and phone for the last month due to what I thought was an amp issue. I wouldn't attempt to work on it either worried about voiding my faux warranty.
Anyway - after I got the disturbing email from Chad about "Business is closing - oh btw buy all this old stock while I don't honor my warranty" I was furious.
I thought about buying the replacement amp and then contesting on the credit card - then Chad would have to talk to someone.
Anyway - I decided I wasn't going to gamble on Chad or the amp - I was going to take my Empire apart as soon as I got home.

Description of problem - I would turn my Empire on - light would come on Green and as soon as a low signal came on sub would make slight low crackle noise on one side and green light would fade out and it would not power on for 10-15 min. It would power on later but would repeat problem.

I first removed amp - upon removal I looked it over for any burns or melts and it looked fine - the only thing that was concerning was the very small heat sink. The enclosure was jammed with polyfill - I mean jammed!


I then removed the speaker on the side that made the crackle - I immediately noticed the two leads going to woofer had fused together! I instinctively touched them and gently rolled them between my fingers breaking the bond before I took pic - sorry. Anyway - it looks like the leads may have been angled at each other when soldered to terminal causing them to touch during excursion. Anyway - here is pic right after - you can see how they were shaped as if they had mated.


With this being the secondary sub in the series I turned the amp on and it worked driving the one woofer. I then reinstalled secondary sub and it seems to be working fine. I may re-solder that woofer at the terminal and reverse the angle of the leads but I reinstalled both subs in a way where I can view the leads by removing the amp. This amp must have some decent protection?

I hope this helps some -
Kiser

Interesting....my Empires have a sealed compartment for the amplifiers.
post #20130 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

Chad was lousy at CS and he effectively went BK over a year ago and has now made it official.

Having said that...

I think many of us are going overboard saying he screwed a lot of people or he had bad intentions. I see him as someone who made a good product at a good price and his company went bankrupt. It happens all the time. I don't think he's a criminal. I don't think he intentionally used faulty amps. He had to use inexpensive amps to sell at his price point and his manufacturer screwed him. It's not like he's the first manufacturer to be screwed by a Chinese supplier. He couldn't afford to replace all the bad amps with good amps and remain in business, so he shut down. He should have announced bankruptcy at the beginning of 2013, so at least people wouldn't have wasted time trying to get warranty service. Maybe he thought his business could recover.

I own a legend and empire and if they go bad (they still work fine), i'll probably take them to the dump and get something else. I don't think it's worth it to repair them and getting angry doesn't solve anything. They're just inexpensive subwoofers. They're not $30k cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by morrischestnut60 View Post

I never understood the point of restating the obvious over and over and over and over and over again. eek.gif Is it a cut and paste? biggrin.gif

I never understood the point of... defending the defenseless... over and over and over and over and over again. eek.gif

Morals and ethics are not about what happens to you, (i.e., "It's not like he's the first manufacturer to be screwed by a Chinese supplier.") Morals and ethics are about how you REact to what happens to you. In this case, Chad's REaction was to pass along the screwing to his customers.

KidHorn, you can deny and deny ad nauseum that LOTS of people got screwed by Chad. You can try to portray him as the innocent victim of his suppliers. Nonetheless, the TRUTH of the story is that Chad screwed many, many people by not taking responsibility for, or even responding to, their warranty claims. Furthermore, he is ultimately RESPONSIBLE for using these cheap foreign amps in his products in an effort to maximize his profits. He should have known the risks, and if he did, he intentionally took them. His customers have, and continue to, pay the price. He didn't run any illegal raffles, but other than that, I put him in the same category of sleazy and unethical ID business owners as Mark Schifter. He, and others like him, give ID businesses a bad name, and I, for one, am very happy that he is out of business. I hope he eventually gets his "just desserts."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Oh, and for the record, Epik Subwoofers was never registered with the IL Secretary of State as a business entity. FWIW, Seaton is.

Chu, if he never registered his "business" in IL, is it also safe to assume he never paid any IL business taxes, or any of the fees applicable to IL businesses? That sounds not only unethical, but categorically illegal. Do you know if he was ever assigned a Federal Tax EIN? Without an EIN, I don't think he could have opened a business checking account or have ever gotten a business loan or LOC. I also don't think he could have accepted CC payments without an EIN. If he did have a Federal EIN, how did he get away with not filing for an IL business permit?

Craig
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