Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 285

so?

I said I didn't want to get off subject so the discussion will stop now. if anyone has questions about the subject send me a pm
sorry to drift.

How's the Phoenix anyway.

Love it so far! I am still tweaking and playing with audyssey I still need room treatments so it will get better i'm sure but to be honest if it stays just as it is now I'll not be one bit disappointed. I am going to try to get my old Velodyne F1500 and I know a member that has the Elemental a5 350, I would love to get them all in the same room and do some side by side testing just for the heck of it. Hell if anyone else is in the Omaha metro and has something else to toss into the mix that would be cool also.
So far I have not been able to trip it up, In fact with the grill off I was shocked at how little movement the driver was making and how much output it had!

Very cool. That big 18 doesn't need to move very much to produce some serious output. Keep the impressions coming, and let us know if you have an opportunity to have a GTG with some other members. It would be interesting to get comparisons of the Velo, eD, Epik, and any other subs that make it into the meet.

Well check the output when its seems like its going to hit the wall on the other side of the room...heh..

i dunno, mines getting alot of movement....

Alright, I have a 5,275 cubic sq. ft. room, which Epik sub do you guys reccomend for a room that size? Im looking at the Sentinel or Dragon. And oh btw, in case this matters, it WILL be near field placement. Thanks!

thats a big room for the Sentinel. i have one in a 2400 cu ft room and it does well, but in double the size i think i'd want something bigger. i'd say, look at the Phoenix.

Really? Although I didnt discuss room size with Chad at Epik, he said the Sentinel had insane output for its size... Again, this is near field placement..The Pheonix is just over my price limit currently and also surpasses the max size allowed by the wife. So Im trying to find a happy medium if possible.

The HSU 3.3's are suppose to be well suited for rooms up to 6000 cub sq ft. I would imagine the Sentinel is in the same league or maybe even possibly surpass it?? Can anyone provide any input on how they might compare? (Wished I thought of asking Chad that..)

Ask him again. He's a great guy and won't mind you calling or e-mailing him to ask a few more questions. He knows his products better than anyone and will recommend the sub he thinks is best for YOUR needs.

the Sentinel does have very good output for it's size. that is true. i guess it all depends on how loud you plan to listen. i crank mine pretty good at times and have never heard one complaint from it yet, but it's in a room half the size.

Yeah, I think I might just do that.


He did seem super nice as well as VERY passionate about his products.

Damn it! I dont want any regrets! As it is, these subs seem to take almost 2 weeks for delivery and I dont want to wait all that time and be dissapointed.

Since your a Sentinel owner who can speak from expierence, I might have to save up a little more and bite the bullit on a Pheonix and then deal with the wifes fury. She'll get over it (I hope..)

Being, as you say, Im in a room almost twice the size as yours and although the Sentinel may be a capable sub for my room, I simpy rather not have to push it really hard in order for it to meet my needs but instead get something that I know would have the headroom.

how loud to you plan to listen? i have listened to music at 100db with it a few times, and i generally watch movies at -10 or so from reference level. if you don't plan to listen this loud then you may be fine with the Sentinel in your room. you also said you will have it placed nearfield which will help since you won't have it very far from you.

what are you using for a sub right now?

-10 would be the absolute loudest I would listen to and that would truthfully be more for fun I typically will watch a movie at -15, anything louder and my wife is like "are you kidding me!"


Dont currently have one.

I suggest you make a mock up of the size. Numbers don't mean anything until you get it. 22"x22" might look small on paper but it's actually pretty big in person. We had one member who had a issue with the size in his home. But then again, your space is pretty big so it might not matter. I have a Dragon and it's alot bigger in person.

I scored a B-Stock Pheonix a couple of weeks ago just on a fluke.. Saved some money and it was perfect.. It's what I'd recommend in that space. It should work out nicely for you, but mock up for sure as it is smaller than some other offerings,,, it is not a small subwoofer.. A smaller foot print would be a SVS PC style from Plus to Ultra 16" <$1K.. for a Plus 12.4 driver..

-fab5

I would think the Dragon would sound great in that room. My Sentinel works great in a room about half his size.

i doubt the dragon would have the same output at 20hz as the sentinel. i could be wrong though.

The Phoenix isn't that much bigger than the Dragon and priced at $100 more, no? The Sentinel/Dragon should be fine but if you can swing the Phoenix...

Oh yeah, been there done that, WITH the wife present, hence the reason why the Pheonix wasnt on my initial list. The more I envision the size of it in the spot it will more than likely go, it does worry me a bit...It would have to literally replace the end table thats between the 2 couches due to its size, otherwise it would just look out of place and akward.

I know there are many people that place there subs behind or near there sitting area but does this tend to lend itself to a more directional sound due to its placement?

You lucky dog you!

Depends who you ask. I've tried it in my setup and it is really distracting. I calibrated it flat with my other speakers, EQ'd it flat so there were no peaks, made sure phase was correct, and it still bothered me. However, other people love nearfield placement and it doesn't bother them one bit. I think some people are ok with the tradeoff of living with some directionality but gaining a lot of output and "slam". Others may not even notice it at all. Unfortunately I can't tell you what your experience will be. Every person and every room is different.

It's possible that directionality is annoying to me because my room is extremely small (11'x10'). Sometimes it wasn't so much that I "heard" the sub in a certain spot but could feel pressure on that side so that it was distracting. Perhaps in a larger room this wouldn't be much of an issue. Again, I think it's something you'll have to experience yourself.

^^ Fair enough and I appreciate your perspective. Aside from my AVR doing its limited EQ'ing on the sub, I dont plan on, at least initially, doing any major EQ'ing so directionality may be an issue.

I agree that some may not be annoyed by near field placement or notice it, but it only seems logical, even if a sub is well EQ'd, to NOTICE its there when its only a few feet away from you or in some cases right behind you vs. if it was away several feet in a corner. I dont know, I guess until I have it place I wont truly know...

Dual subs really cure "direction" problems with nearfield.

they did for me anyways.

There is no way of telling until you actually run the sub. Do you have a sub already? If so, does it sound good there? I moved my sub about 10times until I got it right. I have played 16hz stuff on my Dragon and it did it well.

Ok so I have had my Dynasty for a little over a week now. I decided to play with it for a while before I posted. Im glad I waited because I have gone through several stages, and impressions with it.

Just a for reference on me:

I have been into this crap since I was 10 yrs old upgrading all the drivers in my parents old speakers. I have also worked at several places from Circuit City, to Tweeter, to Sound and Vision, etc... I have heard most every reputable sub manufacture, from Velodyne's 18's and the JL's to the REL Studio ($9000). Of all the subs I have heard there are MAYBE 5-10 I would own if they were all the same price.

My system is:
Fronts: Dynaudio Contour 3.3's
Center: Dynaudio Contour Center
Rears: Mirage tri-poles.
Sub: (was) Infinity Intermezzo 1.2 (12" CMMD, 850w BASH, aluminum cabinet)
Processor: Harman/Kardon AVR8000
Amp: B&K REF 8274 II
Source: Marantz DV8300
Misc: Strait Wire Rhapsody wires.
Room: Dedicated theater in basement, maybe 20' x 17' x 8', double dry wall, hard wood ceilings, 3 layers of insulation in the ceiling (the pink fluff, the pink foam, and white styrofoam) and thick padded carpet.

Ok back to the review.

I started by installing the Sub where the infinity was, left front corner. I set the volume around 1 o'clock, and the x-over around 70hz, and I ran transformers. The bass was powerfull but very uneven, it seemed that in certain frequencies (lower ones) the sub would bloat, and become over powering, not in the good way. But it was still very impressive most of the time. I played music and I was a little disappointed, It was very heavy on kick drums and no where to be heard in the higher ranges like bass guitar. But again, it was still very impressive. As I moved around the room I was finding that my listening position (middle) was some what of a dead spot, so I did the crawl and found that the rear left corner was best so I moved it back there. I had tried that spot with the infinity but the infinity was somewhat detectable, and being behind me and only 5 ft away, it was annoying. So with the Dynasty behind me, it was detectable and still VERY bloated in the low frequencies. So back up front it went. I then posted in this thread and was reminded to level match.

So I level matched everything and it sounded great. Basically It forced me to try the volume at 8:30 - 9 o'clock. I would have never tried that other wise. The lows were now blending and not bloating. So I tried the back of the room again, and it sounded even better. But still no midbass, or punch at all. I wathced several movies and they all were extreemly impressive, lots of smooth, effortless, realistic, and VERY powerfull impact. (this is at 9 o'clock on the gain)

I still wanted to work on mid bass and figured I was definatly not getting flat respose, and in my quest for midbass I was just over driving the low bass. I decided to break out my RS meter and grab my RABOS charts and CD. I plotted the response of the sub and found a 10db (uncorrected) drop @ 66hz, and 10db drop at 26 hz. So I went back and played the CD at 66hz and played with the delay (which I havent touched in years) and found that the delay was set at 10ft) I moved it down to 5 ft, and gained 10db! @ 66hz. I again gained 10db at 30ft. I then played 26hz and 5 ft was the best option with a 5db gain. I ran the test again and flatened the response by 6 or 7 db!

I grabbed one of the wifes Dave Mathews concert dvd's which had ZERO midbass the first time I watched it. WOW, I had no idea what I was missing! not only was the midbass accurate and smooth, but the kick drum got tighter quicker and lower! I then increased the gain to the 11 o'clock position and the bloat was gone! Just smooth powerful effect. I ran some movies and it was like NOTHING I have ever heard. The best way to describe it is BIG, it just seems to "shift" the room. There are times where only my pant legs moved! Also, the sub is completly undetectable! I decided to put in some classical, and see how it can handle timpanies and pipe organ. Seemless connection between the fronts and the sub. I didnt realize how much of the music was being handled by the sub until I unplugged it. Not only did I lose the visceral impact of the music but I lost the stage. High frequencies tend to be carried by low frequencies and the Dynasty even opened up the strings. I hesitate to say the Dynasty is more musical than the large REL's but i would love to put a stentor, stadium, or studio, in the room and run them. I know one thing for sure the REL's cant stand with Dynasty in the movies.

Overall I am very pleased and i can still see more potential in the sub!

Sorry for the long read, but these were the points I was looking for when I was researching, It was hard to tell if I was reading the impressions of an audiophile, or a car audio bass head.

It's actually a nice read.. It goes to show that this is a set-up game for sure and I think you hit on some very key points ie. placement, delay (distance), measurement and tweaking to bring this sub in tight as you desired and probably even more.. Thanks! I remember the day where the salesman said the nice thing about a sub in that bass is non directional and a subwoofer can go anywhere.. Ha!!! Enjoy the Dynasty!!

-fab5

nice review johnmacdyn