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Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 286

post #8551 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDisMe View Post

^^ Fair enough and I appreciate your perspective. Aside from my AVR doing its limited EQ'ing on the sub, I dont plan on, at least initially, doing any major EQ'ing so directionality may be an issue.

I agree that some may not be annoyed by near field placement or notice it, but it only seems logical, even if a sub is well EQ'd, to NOTICE its there when its only a few feet away from you or in some cases right behind you vs. if it was away several feet in a corner. I dont know, I guess until I have it place I wont truly know...

I wanted to address your question regarding subwoofers, your budget, your space requirements, and Epik products.

When it all comes down to it there is no better value on the market than doing a DIY project or Do it yourself. You're essentially buying the drivers for ABOUT the same cost as Epik and other ID manufacturers, you're buying the raw materials at a slightly higher cost than Epik and other ID manufacturers, and you're spending your own labor to do it so that's how you come out with a high performance product for the lowest cost available.

That being said you're probably here because you don't want to do something yourself which is fine. I didn't either and that's why I bought Epik. All things considered, Epik is a decibel per dollar leader in terms of internet manufacturers and much higher than B&M (brick and mortar or actual stores) product lines decibel per dollar ratio. There are a few competitors like Elemental Designs, SVS, and Hsu research who all make competing products that perform well at the various price points. What most people forget is that the biggest differences you'll run into are customer service, product finish quality, driver quality and component quality, and marketing. How Epik achieves such a high decibel per dollar ratio is that their customer service costs are kept very low by employing only 2 people who may ever answer an email or phone call. They keep marketing costs very low by not advertising anywhere (that I know of) except their own website. Thus the quality of their drivers, components, and build quality go up based on the price you pay and the amount of money they have left to work with. Most companies profit margins are about the same per industry.

With all of that being said your room is very large, and you should always buy the best product you can. Despite your nearfield placement you still have over 5,000 cu. ft. to pressurize which is the point of a subwoofer. The Dynasty will be the best choice for your space, but based on your budget and size requirements that may not be an option.

I guess in the end what I'm trying to say is whatever amount you DO decide to spend in the end, the Epik product will perform as good if not better than anything else out there at the price point.

Good luck, and happy shopping!

-Chad

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #8552 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdeye11 View Post


I guess in the end what I'm trying to say is whatever amount you DO decide to spend in the end, the Epik product will perform as good if not better than anything else out there at the price point.

Good luck, and happy shopping!

-Chad

i agree. Epik makes damn good products at a good price. i don't feel ripped off or have any regret with my Epik purchase. i don't remember reading one negative thing in this entire thread. the AV123 MFW-15 has problems, and i have seen numerous people with problems with ED's amps as well. SVS seems to also be pretty reliable too though.
post #8553 of 20355
With a 5000 cu foot room, I would now recommend quad Phoenix, since I have an MFW and a Phoenix in a 2200 cu foot room, or maybe triple Dynastys...

I have all the headroom and extension I need now, there is nothing that taxes the subs now, your ears give out first...
post #8554 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by theelviscerator View Post

With a 5000 cu foot room, I would now recommend quad Phoenix, since I have an MFW and a Phoenix in a 2200 cu foot room, or maybe triple Dynastys...

I have all the headroom and extension I need now, there is nothing that taxes the subs now, your ears give out first...

Quad Phoenix's
post #8555 of 20355
I currently have a Phoenix which is in a nearfield setup behind my couch. I have a null around 60hz and was looking at ways to flatten out my response since my Antimode 8033 can't really fix a null. My experiments with the front right position seemed to yield a better response but I just can't fit the Phoenix back there. So I'm thinking of adding a Vanquish back in that corner or maybe along the opposite wall near the hallway entrance. Do you think that the Vanquish will play well with the Phoenix?

http://www.floorplanner.com//project...st_pass=ahh4dm
post #8556 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fins^ View Post

I currently have a Phoenix which is in a nearfield setup behind my couch. I have a null around 60hz and was looking at ways to flatten out my response since my Antimode 8033 can't really fix a null. My experiments with the front right position seemed to yield a better response but I just can't fit the Phoenix back there. So I'm thinking of adding a Vanquish back in that corner or maybe along the opposite wall near the hallway entrance. Do you think that the Vanquish will play well with the Phoenix?

http://www.floorplanner.com//project...st_pass=ahh4dm

I'd take a look at a mid bass specialist like the Hsu MBM 12.
post #8557 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fins^ View Post

I currently have a Phoenix which is in a nearfield setup behind my couch. I have a null around 60hz and was looking at ways to flatten out my response since my Antimode 8033 can't really fix a null. My experiments with the front right position seemed to yield a better response but I just can't fit the Phoenix back there. So I'm thinking of adding a Vanquish back in that corner or maybe along the opposite wall near the hallway entrance. Do you think that the Vanquish will play well with the Phoenix?

http://www.floorplanner.com//project...st_pass=ahh4dm

I would be very inyterested in the thoughts here as well.. As the Vanguish is a different besat.. It seems as if it should solve your issue but how will they paly together as the Phoenix is much more output capable.. Hmm.. How would two Sentenals work in Lieu of the Phoenix??? Or, I see some SVS PC Plus (12.4) that are on craigslist that have the mid upper curve that you might be looking for with excellent output in a small foot print.. But my concern if you do have enough raw output is though nearfield the subs in the middle of the room.. Have you tried relocating it? Even if not permanet..

-fab5
post #8558 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdeye11 View Post

I wanted to address your question regarding subwoofers, your budget, your space requirements, and Epik products.

When it all comes down to it there is no better value on the market than doing a DIY project or Do it yourself. You're essentially buying the drivers for ABOUT the same cost as Epik and other ID manufacturers, you're buying the raw materials at a slightly higher cost than Epik and other ID manufacturers, and you're spending your own labor to do it so that's how you come out with a high performance product for the lowest cost available.

That being said you're probably here because you don't want to do something yourself which is fine. I didn't either and that's why I bought Epik. All things considered, Epik is a decibel per dollar leader in terms of internet manufacturers and much higher than B&M (brick and mortar or actual stores) product lines decibel per dollar ratio. There are a few competitors like Elemental Designs, SVS, and Hsu research who all make competing products that perform well at the various price points. What most people forget is that the biggest differences you'll run into are customer service, product finish quality, driver quality and component quality, and marketing. How Epik achieves such a high decibel per dollar ratio is that their customer service costs are kept very low by employing only 2 people who may ever answer an email or phone call. They keep marketing costs very low by not advertising anywhere (that I know of) except their own website. Thus the quality of their drivers, components, and build quality go up based on the price you pay and the amount of money they have left to work with. Most companies profit margins are about the same per industry.

With all of that being said your room is very large, and you should always buy the best product you can. Despite your nearfield placement you still have over 5,000 cu. ft. to pressurize which is the point of a subwoofer. The Dynasty will be the best choice for your space, but based on your budget and size requirements that may not be an option.

I guess in the end what I'm trying to say is whatever amount you DO decide to spend in the end, the Epik product will perform as good if not better than anything else out there at the price point.

Good luck, and happy shopping!

-Chad

Great post, Chad! I agree wholeheartedly. The quality of the build and materials Epik uses has yet to be surpassed from the subs I've had in my HT (which include HSU and AV123). Now, I can say that I liked the cabinet better of my MFW, I can't say that it will outperform, or even equal my Phoenix. In fairness, the MFW costs 1/2 as much, too.

My older HSU VTF3 could not approach the performance of either the MFW, nor the Phoenix.

I have no experience with subs from SVS or eD. But, as you point out, they spend money on advertising that Epik puts into the performance of their products, as they don't advertise, AT ALL!

Also of note, in addition to the top notch build, quality of materials, and SPL performance, the quality of bass is unsurpassed, too.

In short, Epik subs may not look fancy, but it's hard to find anything that can equal or outperform them at the given price point.
post #8559 of 20355
Epik subs are groovy!
post #8560 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by fab5valentine View Post

I would be very inyterested in the thoughts here as well.. As the Vanguish is a different besat.. It seems as if it should solve your issue but how will they paly together as the Phoenix is much more output capable.. Hmm.. How would two Sentenals work in Lieu of the Phoenix??? Or, I see some SVS PC Plus (12.4) that are on craigslist that have the mid upper curve that you might be looking for with excellent output in a small foot print.. But my concern if you do have enough raw output is though nearfield the subs in the middle of the room.. Have you tried relocating it? Even if not permanet..

-fab5

I did put the Phoenix in the front right position as an experiment and even without EQ it seems to have a flatter response than it did behind the couch. It just doesn't physically fit back there very well with the right front speaker in place.

My current setup isn't all that bad. The sub disappears with music, at the volumes I listen to, and it is fun to get that physical kick in the back from HT scenes like Master & Commander.

Note: I'm using a RS Analog meter with the RealTraps bass tones and graphing by hand.
post #8561 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fins^ View Post

I currently have a Phoenix which is in a nearfield setup behind my couch. I have a null around 60hz and was looking at ways to flatten out my response since my Antimode 8033 can't really fix a null. My experiments with the front right position seemed to yield a better response but I just can't fit the Phoenix back there. So I'm thinking of adding a Vanquish back in that corner or maybe along the opposite wall near the hallway entrance. Do you think that the Vanquish will play well with the Phoenix?

http://www.floorplanner.com//project...st_pass=ahh4dm

Any word on your Salk's? Just a suggestion, but until you get your new LCR and your amp, you won't know that you're lacking any midbass. I'd hold off until...
post #8562 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

Any word on your Salk's? Just a suggestion, but until you get your new LCR and your amp, you won't know that you're lacking any midbass. I'd hold off until...

Hey Ron, good to see you here.

I'm guessing mid-September for the Salks. I already have the AVA Double 240/3 and it was a nice upgrade. It did actually help with some of the mid bass (IMO) but there is only so much those 4" drivers in the Swan 4.1s can do. Those Polk RTA 11ts helped with the mid bass while I had them in the system but my friend Ken has them now after an extended listening evaluation against the Swans.

I'm in no hurry and I'm just researching opinions right now. The Vanquish looks like a nice musical sub that would fit into some small places.
post #8563 of 20355
I don't know how many of you are concerned about speed and musicality, but that's where my concerns lay when I was looking into these.

I've finally moved into a big enough house and found myself in a financially stable enough condition to get my dream system: Maggies all around with 3.6s as the front L/R. Musical and voice accuracy area amazing, but they are a bit thin in the bass. The dealer I worked with was big on Rel and Vandersteen subs to match the maggies, but the more I read about them the less convinced I was that they were the best available for the money.

Wife and dog sensitivity, plus some indifference to wall shaking and glass breaking during movies put big SPLs as a low priority. I'm looking for clean, fast, musical bass that would meld well with and extend my 3.6s with music and still provide some excitement and dynamics during movies.

I was fortunate to get a Vanquish with relatively little wait, stuck it in the corner and ran Anthem room correction. I've done a little more futzing around with it than that, but already I'm pretty happy with it.

With music it melts right in. It just seems like the 3.6s extend a couple octaves deeper. There's no sense of delay or an additional sound source from the corner. I'm really happy with it this way. With movies, it's not shaking the walls as easily as other subs I've tried, but I suspect this is an accuracy thing. With loud explosions and other bassy scenes it still shakes the house - just not as loosy-goosy a presentation as before.

Overall I'm really happy with this purchase. At this price if I ever feel the need for more I figure I can just buy another and run them stereo.

Long story short - pair with planars without fear! This sealed sub, at least, is sufficiently fast and well controlled to pair with them seamlessly.

-Ravi
post #8564 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravichopra View Post

I don't know how many of you are concerned about speed and musicality, but that's where my concerns lay when I was looking into these.

I've finally moved into a big enough house and found myself in a financially stable enough condition to get my dream system: Maggies all around with 3.6s as the front L/R. Musical and voice accuracy area amazing, but they are a bit thin in the bass. The dealer I worked with was big on Rel and Vandersteen subs to match the maggies, but the more I read about them the less convinced I was that they were the best available for the money.

Wife and dog sensitivity, plus some indifference to wall shaking and glass breaking during movies put big SPLs as a low priority. I'm looking for clean, fast, musical bass that would meld well with and extend my 3.6s with music and still provide some excitement and dynamics during movies.

I was fortunate to get a Vanquish with relatively little wait, stuck it in the corner and ran Anthem room correction. I've done a little more futzing around with it than that, but already I'm pretty happy with it.

With music it melts right in. It just seems like the 3.6s extend a couple octaves deeper. There's no sense of delay or an additional sound source from the corner. I'm really happy with it this way. With movies, it's not shaking the walls as easily as other subs I've tried, but I suspect this is an accuracy thing. With loud explosions and other bassy scenes it still shakes the house - just not as loosy-goosy a presentation as before.

Overall I'm really happy with this purchase. At this price if I ever feel the need for more I figure I can just buy another and run them stereo.

Long story short - pair with planars without fear! This sealed sub, at least, is sufficiently fast and well controlled to pair with them seamlessly.

-Ravi

Nice write up. The Dragon is like the Vanquish on steroids.
post #8565 of 20355
fellow epik afficionados:
perhaps one of you you can answer or redirect me to another post to find the answer to my quest...
in the last year i've significantly upgraded my system -- it now consists of an epik dynasty, four polk LSi-15's and an LSiC, all being driven by an onkyo 806 followed by three (wonderful) vintage NAD 2400THX's ('cause the 4-ohm polks need a lot of current). Oh yeah, and for 7.1 movies I use a vintage pair of Polk 10's in the rear. And also, when desired, some vintage Polk 7's in the breakfast room, driven by another 2400 from the 806's "Zone 2" o/p.

anyway, here's the question/bummer... i love my system, it sounds totally sweet with CD's and, btw, the dynasty totally kicks (my) ass. even on my oldest CD's i hear "new" stuff that i never knew was there; ...significant joy in rediscovering, slack-jawed, my entire collection. holy sh*t!

BUT with every other source, especially iTunes (even with the new 256kbps encoding, providing supposed "CD quality") makes me unhappy.

flat, grey, insipid, lifeless.

sirius satellite is tolerable, but only just so.

so where do i get new music from now -- to let my system sing to the max of it capabilities? do i stick with CD's (clearly in the death rattle phase of their existence)? SACD's (woefully limited choices)?

if iTunes downloads are truly CD quality it would be great to figure out an appropriate way to provide their i/p to my system... is there another playback method with higher performance that the iPod? or am i simply and idiot doing something wrong?

thanks in advance!
i await your help; ...meanwhile, I'm stuck listening to 70's disco.

(naw, just kiddin' with that parting shot)
post #8566 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruuk View Post

fellow epik afficionados:
perhaps one of you you can answer or redirect me to another post to find the answer to my quest...
in the last year i've significantly upgraded my system -- it now consists of an epik dynasty, four polk LSi-15's and an LSiC, all being driven by an onkyo 806 followed by three (wonderful) vintage NAD 2400THX's ('cause the 4-ohm polks need a lot of current). Oh yeah, and for 7.1 movies I use a vintage pair of Polk 10's in the rear. And also, when desired, some vintage Polk 7's in the breakfast room, driven by another 2400 from the 806's "Zone 2" o/p.

anyway, here's the question/bummer... i love my system, it sounds totally sweet with CD's and, btw, the dynasty totally kicks (my) ass. even on my oldest CD's i hear "new" stuff that i never knew was there; ...significant joy in rediscovering, slack-jawed, my entire collection. holy sh*t!

BUT with every other source, especially iTunes (even with the new 256kbps encoding, providing supposed "CD quality") makes me unhappy.

flat, grey, insipid, lifeless.

sirius satellite is tolerable, but only just so.

so where do i get new music from now -- to let my system sing to the max of it capabilities? do i stick with CD's (clearly in the death rattle phase of their existence)? SACD's (woefully limited choices)?

if iTunes downloads are truly CD quality it would be great to figure out an appropriate way to provide their i/p to my system... is there another playback method with higher performance that the iPod? or am i simply and idiot doing something wrong?

thanks in advance!
i await your help; ...meanwhile, I'm stuck listening to 70's disco.

(naw, just kiddin' with that parting shot)

If it's lifeless, then it's either the media, recording or source. Welcome to the world of finding the correct synergy with your gear. I took my AVR out of the chain, found a good player and 2 channel pre, then found some ICs that worked better than what I had. Didn't know what I was missing before. I still use the AVR as a pre/pro in my HT rig. For you, I'm not clear if you're streaming or burning, but you'd have to include looking at either your soundcard and/or player/transport as well.
post #8567 of 20355
ruuk,

One thing you may check is how your receiver is set to playback the iPod. Do you have the receiver in two channel mode when listening to the iPod? The reason I ask is multifaceted and has to do with something I discovered when playing back MP3s on my HTPC (connected to my 3808 via HDMI). I was originally running MP3s through AC3Filter (I thought this was ideal, since I could do bass redirection). Everything was really bassy, but to excess. Long story short.. AC3Filter was definitely muddying up the signal going to my Dragon. It was literally matrixing the 2CH MP3s to 5CH and then taking the bass from 5CH matrix and ramming it into the LFE channel causing my subwoofer to work 5X as hard (and it literally sounded like there were 5CHs going into the Dragon). Anyhow, I recently set AC3Filter to just passthrough everything it can (DTS/Dolby) and to passthrough everything else as it originally gets it (so MP3s get passed through as 2CH audio, etc). Then on my receiver when I'm listening to MP3s I change it to Stereo (manually change it because obviously the HTPC/HDMI doesn't send any information to tell the receiver to switch to Stereo). Then I also went into my 3808's 2CH settings and setup my "2CH Configuration" properly (adjusting what speakers to use and type as well as the subwoofer level, etc) and now MP3s sound awesome. The bass is tight and articulate when the MP3s actually have bass and nothing sounds muddy. When I watch a movie on the HTPC it automatically switches to DTS or Dolby (except if I watch a Bluray I still need to manually switch the receiver back to MULTI CH IN).

Anyhow.. check the mode your receiver is in when playing back stuff off the iPod and then check out how you have that mode setup.
post #8568 of 20355
Does anyone know when the Epik Conquest replacement will be available?

It seems to be taking a very long time!
post #8569 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpioli View Post

Does anyone know when the Epik Conquest replacement will be available?

It seems to be taking a very long time!

If anyone knew it would be Chad, because no one here has updated with that information. My last update was maybe a month ago and Chad was still sourcing a replacement amp for the Conquest. I don't think the unit itself it going to be replaced in the Epik lineup.
post #8570 of 20355
It's been two weeks now with my second Phoenix and the wife finally asked about it hiding behind the couch.. BUSTED!!! I may be sleeping on the couch tonight, but atleast I'll be near the subwoofers..

Now for the serious question: how do you set up dual subwoofers thru your AVR? I have them split, but how does auto set-up detect and set distace correctly if they are not symetrical to the listening position.. Will pick up an antimode or something down the line but could use some advice at this point.. THANKS!!!

-fab5
post #8571 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by fab5valentine View Post

It's been two weeks now with my second Phoenix and the wife finally asked about it hiding behind the couch.. BUSTED!!! I may be sleeping on the couch tonight, but atleast I'll be near the subwoofers..


-fab5

Nice!!! color me jealous. I might be in the same boat as you sleeping on the couch because i LOVE THIS SUB SO MUCH THAT I WANT ANOTHER! Tee Hee, Damn you Chad, do you realize how many spousal rifts you have and will cause with these damn things lol.
post #8572 of 20355
Am getting my Dragon this coming Wednesday. Really looking forward to it....
post #8573 of 20355
Take the time to set them up properly..its worth it..

Now after doing some manual equalizing with the chart from REW and my meter, I have clipped my room peak @ 50 hz and was able to turn up my system louder then previously able.

Just registered 115 dB during first chopper scene intro on Transformers blu ray. corrected....amps are just warm on both subs.....

What a difference, it went from loud boomy to making my shirt sleeve flap on my arm, with both subs effortless.

I am def gonna grab a sub eq in the future, antimode or svs, something...
post #8574 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by theelviscerator View Post

Take the time to set them up properly..its worth it..

Now after doing some manual equalizing with the chart from REW and my meter, I have clipped my room peak @ 50 hz and was able to turn up my system louder then previously able.

Just registered 115 dB during first chopper scene intro on Transformers blu ray. corrected....amps are just warm on both subs.....

What a difference, it went from loud boomy to making my shirt sleeve flap on my arm, with both subs effortless.

I am def gonna grab a sub eq in the future, antimode or svs, something...

How did you do equalization without a sub EQ?
post #8575 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpioli View Post

Does anyone know when the Epik Conquest replacement will be available?

It seems to be taking a very long time!

Not sure where you're located, but a friend of mine is selling a Conquest. However, I don't think he's too eager to ship it..
post #8576 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdeye11 View Post

How did you do equalization without a sub EQ?

Inside the receiver there is a 4 band eq, sucks but with only Aud 2EQ and no sub compensation, it's better the nothing..

4 filters for the sub channel and all the others...I left the others flat and eq'd only the sub channel.
post #8577 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdeye11 View Post

How did you do equalization without a sub EQ?

my receiver has no such parametric eq's and I was able to flaten out my response from +/- 10db to about +/- 4db, by simply using the delay setting. Huge difference!
post #8578 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpioli View Post

Does anyone know when the Epik Conquest replacement will be available?

It seems to be taking a very long time!

I might have one or two Conquests available in the Phoenix area.

John
post #8579 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmacdyn View Post

my receiver has no such parametric eq's and I was able to flaten out my response from +/- 10db to about +/- 4db, by simply using the delay setting. Huge difference!

Can you elaborate further on this? How did you know the adjustments you made would be positive ones?
post #8580 of 20355
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmike View Post

ruuk,

One thing you may check is how your receiver is set to playback the iPod. Do you have the receiver in two channel mode when listening to the iPod? The reason I ask is multifaceted and has to do with something I discovered when playing back MP3s on my HTPC (connected to my 3808 via HDMI). I was originally running MP3s through AC3Filter (I thought this was ideal, since I could do bass redirection). Everything was really bassy, but to excess. Long story short.. AC3Filter was definitely muddying up the signal going to my Dragon. It was literally matrixing the 2CH MP3s to 5CH and then taking the bass from 5CH matrix and ramming it into the LFE channel causing my subwoofer to work 5X as hard (and it literally sounded like there were 5CHs going into the Dragon). Anyhow, I recently set AC3Filter to just passthrough everything it can (DTS/Dolby) and to passthrough everything else as it originally gets it (so MP3s get passed through as 2CH audio, etc). Then on my receiver when I'm listening to MP3s I change it to Stereo (manually change it because obviously the HTPC/HDMI doesn't send any information to tell the receiver to switch to Stereo). Then I also went into my 3808's 2CH settings and setup my "2CH Configuration" properly (adjusting what speakers to use and type as well as the subwoofer level, etc) and now MP3s sound awesome. The bass is tight and articulate when the MP3s actually have bass and nothing sounds muddy. When I watch a movie on the HTPC it automatically switches to DTS or Dolby (except if I watch a Bluray I still need to manually switch the receiver back to MULTI CH IN).

Anyhow.. check the mode your receiver is in when playing back stuff off the iPod and then check out how you have that mode setup.


pcmike --
Thanks so much for the reply & suggestions. I was able to tweak settings and get it to sound reasonably OK.

For anyone else following this thread, there seems to be a wealth of info available at
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/
I may splurge and purchase an outboard DAC to interface my mac with the sound system.
Meanwhile the iPod ain't sounding too shabby!
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