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Official Epik Subwoofer Thread - Page 307

post #9181 of 19461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gov View Post

Put an SPL meter on that thing!! Then get back to us

The SPL tests out but not during many scenes
post #9182 of 19461
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

The SPL tests out but not during many scenes

Play music with a lot of bass. Try some Hip-hop.
post #9183 of 19461
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUPERMANROB View Post

I've been thinking of adding another sub and wondering which one would closest to the Caliber? How low does the Caliber go?

Anyone have an opinion on this?
post #9184 of 19461
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

The SPL tests out but not during many scenes

Not sure what to tell you then.....
post #9185 of 19461
What's the budget supermanrob . Personally, I go with a Sentinel. The Caliber was a notch below the Knight, and according to the EPIK blog:-

"The Sentinel is actually capable of more 20 Hz output than the now discontinued Epik Knight. What makes this so amazing is that it is less than half the physical size of the old Knight! Its enormously capable motor structure helps it to achieve this feat."

So I'm guessing it would be a close match to the Caliber. $649 right now ain't bad.
post #9186 of 19461
That thing will eat you up!
post #9187 of 19461
Looking at the specs for the Caliber, I did not realize that it used a 350 watt amp.

Caliber Specs:
* Enclosure dimensions: 27H x 20W x 30D inches (31D with grill)
* Port: Patented 6 inch flared design
* Driver: Custom 15 inch high excursion design
* Amplifier: Custom 350 watt RMS BASH amplifier
* Cabinet: Triple-internally braced, dual thickness baffle super-refined MDF
* Warranty: 7 years on driver, 2 years on electronic

It really seems now were getting more performance (amp, mag) from a smaller cabinet for the same amt of money.
post #9188 of 19461
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnTBigman View Post

Looking at the specs for the Caliber, I did not realize that it used a 350 watt amp.

Caliber Specs:
* Enclosure dimensions: 27H x 20W x 30D inches (31D with grill)
* Port: Patented 6 inch flared design
* Driver: Custom 15 inch high excursion design
* Amplifier: Custom 350 watt RMS BASH amplifier
* Cabinet: Triple-internally braced, dual thickness baffle super-refined MDF
* Warranty: 7 years on driver, 2 years on electronic

It really seems now were getting more performance (amp, mag) from a smaller cabinet for the same amt of money.

TnT I'm more worried about getting something to match the Caliber. Is the Sentinel the closest to the Caliber? How low do you think the Caliber goes? I have never done any calibrations of it.
post #9189 of 19461
The Epik Castle was highly rated from Craigsub ratings.


Is the Phoenix the replacement for the Castle? If not, what is the Castle's replacement in the newer Epik line?
post #9190 of 19461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kartoon2005 View Post

The Epik Castle was highly rated from Craigsub ratings.


Is the Phoenix the replacement for the Castle? If not, what is the Castle's replacement in the newer Epik line?

All I know is that the Dynastsy is the replacement of the Tower, which is slightly better than the older Castle....not much difference...
post #9191 of 19461
Quote:
Originally Posted by SUPERMANROB View Post

TnT I'm more worried about getting something to match the Caliber. Is the Sentinel the closest to the Caliber? How low do you think the Caliber goes? I have never done any calibrations of it.

My educated guesstimate is that the Sentinel should get you close in overall output and maybe a little more around the Sentinels tuning point. The Phoenix would probably be a closer match in low extension as they are both tuned lower.
post #9192 of 19461
My gf is already complaining that the Dynasty is "too much" ha, she bought it for us so thats good. Got a couple issues I am nit picking but with the right source material it sings but like I said maybe a bit less frequently but more powerful when it does.
post #9193 of 19461
Sounds like a placement issue. Gotta love REW. Can allow u to visually see whats going on with the spectrum in ur room.
post #9194 of 19461
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnTBigman View Post

Sounds like a placement issue. Gotta love REW. Can allow u to visually see whats going on with the spectrum in ur room.

I tried MANY other places with other subs until I finally found the only place that gets decent response (tested by ear) when the rest of the room is DEAD. Any other placement and the sound seems sucked out. This is where my pb13 shined and seems like the only placement option I have in this messed up room.

Again, the power is there it just seems like it prefers to take its time and relax and not do much until something real big happens then it shakes the house.
post #9195 of 19461
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBMAN View Post

All I know is that the Dynastsy is the replacement of the Tower, which is slightly better than the older Castle....not much difference...


So the Phoenix would be the replacement for the Castle if that's the case.

I am about to go for the Phoenix. I had a SVS PB12-NSD sold it and have been looking for an upgrade. I would have gotten the PB13-Ultra but its a little out of my price range, SVS started charging tax which came up to $150 extra in taxes. Also read that the Phoenix is comparable to the PB13-Ultra.

Any Phoenix owners out there having buyers remorse with your Phoenix?
post #9196 of 19461
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

I tried MANY other places with other subs until I finally found the only place that gets decent response (tested by ear) when the rest of the room is DEAD. Any other placement and the sound seems sucked out. This is where my pb13 shined and seems like the only placement option I have in this messed up room.

Again, the power is there it just seems like it prefers to take its time and relax and not do much until something real big happens then it shakes the house.

do you have REW and a mic and all?

if you do i'd suggest running it and see whats going on. to me it sounds like you have a peak somewhere in the bottom end. if you are hearing it sometimes, not all the time then that leads me to think that you have very uneven response.
post #9197 of 19461
I am totally over my head with Room EQ, I tried Audyssey MultEQ XT, shouldn't that help? I also have an as-eq1 but I am considering returning it (the more I read the less I think it is worth the money for me) and getting an antimode to go with MultEQ XT in my receiver. If I did that I could afford room analyzer
post #9198 of 19461
i've read multiple posts about audessy doing more harm than good. i prefer to do things the old fashion way. i got myself REW, an ECM8000 and a 2 band PEQ to handle my subwoofer.

my Yamaha receiver has it's own auto EQ known as YPAO, i ran it and then went in and adjusted things to my liking using REW and the ECM8000. i don't trust or even like any form of auto EQ. i trust my own ears more, and REW is just a nice way to get a visual on what i am hearing.

i'm thinking audessy is boosting somewhere in the bottom end or cutting somewhere in the upper bass region. if you are hearing it do it's thing only sometimes it really just seems like uneven response at your listening position.

Edit: just another thought. it could even be the phase between the mains and the sub. try swapping the phase by 180, and see it that makes it better or worse.
post #9199 of 19461
An SMS-1 will show you with a visual on your TV. Even turning the sub 90 degrees changes the freq response in the room as well as 6 inches one way or the other. Visually seeing the feq curve on TV and moving the sub to find the right spot, the SMS-1 is a real simple way to do it.

Bill
post #9200 of 19461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kartoon2005 View Post

Any Phoenix owners out there having buyers remorse with your Phoenix?

Not me
post #9201 of 19461
Hey I was looking for some WAF and am looking at adding a second sub. While the Phoenix looks good I was wondering how you guys thing a PB13 Ultra would blend with my Phoenix. Will it sound awkward and have a totally different sonic characteristic. Or will lit be ok to have them in separate corners. Maybe I should get a second Pheonix but would like a wood veneer. Nearfield. Thanks guys.
post #9202 of 19461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kartoon2005 View Post


Any Phoenix owners out there having buyers remorse with your Phoenix?

Nope!
post #9203 of 19461
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleATheater View Post

Hey I was looking for some WAF and am looking at adding a second sub. While the Phoenix looks good I was wondering how you guys thing a PB13 Ultra would blend with my Phoenix. Will it sound awkward and have a totally different sonic characteristic. Or will lit be ok to have them in separate corners. Maybe I should get a second Pheonix but would like a wood veneer. Nearfield. Thanks guys.

I'd ask Chad that question...he'll probably sell you another Phoenix. He's probably tested the Ultra13. From what he's told me, he buys competitors subs to test against. That said, from the little time I spent at fins^ house. The Phoenix and Ultra don't sound alike. I'm not going to get into which sounds better, but they do sound different...which can be attributed to different rigs, placement and rooms...or that they each have strengths which might or might not work well together. It could be a match made in heaven or it could muddy up the waters...don't think I'd risk it. If you need a pair, go one way or the other.
post #9204 of 19461
Do these things have break in time? Definetly feels like it is opening up a touch
post #9205 of 19461
Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

Do these things have break in time? Definetly feels like it is opening up a touch

yes, it will loosen up a bit after you get some good hard hours on it. mine definitely slammed more after a couple weeks. i was happy with my Sentinel right out of the box but it definitely got even better with time.
post #9206 of 19461
Received the Sentinel yesterday! Initial impressions are that it doesn't sound as loud as the EX. Had to turn the gain much higher (11 o'clock on the EX vs. 1 o'clock on the Sentinel). Perhaps I need to play it hot? mcjasonb, what are your settings on the receiver and at what position do you have the gain set?

The EX seems to slam harder down low, but I think that the down firing driver and ports attribute to the more visceral feel when the floor rumbles and shakes. The Sentinel is much tighter and more responsive and is better with music (for the most part - one exception was with the Chilli Peppers Blood Sugar Sex Magik song on Lithium (Sirius/EX) via DTV signal - EX seemed to hit a little harder and just sounded slightly better with this song). Overall, the Sentinel is a more musical speaker. The EX is a bit boomy and the bass seems to hang around a bit. The Sentinel is more responsive and doesn't linger like the EX.

I would give a slight edge to the Outlaw in HT, because of the feel of the floor/couch shaking abilities. The Sentinel is right there with it, but doesn't shake the room quite as much, but it's close. Granted, I had a lot more time to dial in the EX, so take it for what it's worth. The EX has a little more boom to it, which is good for a lot of heavy base scenes in movies, but not as good as the tight bass in the Sentinel for everything else. I also think the Sentinel will break in over time. I've only had 2 days with it so far.

I compared a few different bass heavy scenes between the two of them. Some were with my kids, so I played Kung Fu Panda with the Sentinel and compared the Escape scene and the Skidoosh scene (several times). You feel the EX more simply because it shakes and rattles the floor more. However, the Sentinel rattled one of the decorations in the Entertainment center, which I didn't notice with the EX. The Sentinel doesn't interact with the floor like the EX, mostly due to design. I often thought of getting a Gramma with the EX, but I don't think I'll need one with the Sentinel. Also played the beginning of Horton Hears a Who! and both subs are comparable. They just sound slightly different. It's tough to describe, but the EX seems a bit more visceral, heavy (down low), and the bass seems to hang around more. The Sentinel seems more controlled, tighter, and more realistic since the bass doesn't linger and it doesn't shake quite as much. The Sentinel does shake, just not with seemingly everything like the EX.

Also listened to Dark Knight hospital explosion, depth charges in U571, and Iron Hide flip and other scenes in Transformers (while alone ). Receiver set to -20 to -10, depending on what I was watching. My first experience with the depth charges was phenomenal with the EX. I was shaking and moving with the Germans in the submarine. This scene is amazing with a quality sub! The Sentinel was excellent with this scene too, but didn't feel it as much. I preferred the EX in this one, just because I felt it more in the couch and made me feel like I was there shaking around in the scene. The Sentinel had quite a punch too, but the edge goes to the EX. Both the hospital explosion and the Iron Hide flip were equally impressive with both subs. They have a slightly different sound to each of them as I described before. I think it's a matter of opinion and taste in whether you would like one vs. the other. My kids thought the EX sounded louder and more impressive (with the kid friendly movies of course), but as I replayed the scene and turned up the Sentinel a bit more, they seemed equally impressed. I played some music this morning on Sirius/EX and my wife thought the Sentinel sounded much better. She thinks that the EX is too boomy. I like them both, but favor the Sentinel for it's better representation of the original tracks. The EX is a bit bass heavy on the low end and like I mentioned, the bass seems to linger. I also watched Live Free or Die Hard tonight at low volume (-40 to -35) while the kids were in bed and the gun shots sounded awesome (especially the silenced ones). I didn't compare both subs, but I didn't feel the need to since the Sentinel sounded so sweet.

With all that said, I'm keeping the Sentinel over the EX. I love the EX and I think it's a fantastic sub, but there are a few things that I like about the Sentinel. First is the size and quality of the build. This thing is solid and heavy. It's definitely 15 pounds heavier even though it's much smaller than the EX. I like that it doesn't have carpet spikes and is easy to move around. The smaller footprint is a plus for me, because it's hidden nicely in the corner of the room and is easily concealed by our rocking chair (WAF). The driver is beautiful and clearly well made. I get a kick out of watching the driver excursion and so do my kids . The butyl rubber surround on the driver feels thick and strong and the aluminum driver is solid and tight. This thing is built to last. The amp is nice too. I love the feel of the rubber knobs on the gain and I really appreciate the nice design touch of the raised section on the volume (gain) knob. I don't have to look behind the sub to figure out what position it's set to. Very nice touch! I also like the tight punchy bass of the Sentinel and that it has a more natural sound with music. It doesn't quite have visceral feel that the EX has in movies, but it holds it's own and it's not enough to sway me either way. The Sentinel is equally impressive in movies and just has more natural sound to it. The EX is heavier with the bass and I like the way it sounds, but I like the versatility of the Sentinel with music. I also think the Sentinel is going to break in over time and won't be quite as stiff as it is right now.

Both subs are keepers, but the Sentinel is the one I'm keeping. If I never got the Sentinel, I'd be perfectly happy with the EX. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend either sub. Both have their strengths and they're both quality subs at a decent price. The recent sale of the EX made it probably the best bang for your buck subs ($519 + free shipping is a steal). The Sentinel is right there, but a bit higher at roughly $200 more (but it's still on sale). Dual Sentinels is an even better deal. I only wish I could've bought two. I think two Sentinels would sound awesome in my room, but one is good enough and I'm quite happy with it so far With a little more time to dial in the Sentinel and a bit more break in, I think it's going to sound even better than it does now. I didn't quite like the EX right away either until I dialed it in and had the gain, SW settings on the receiver, etc. set the way it sounded best. It takes time getting used to the sub and getting a feel for it in how it integrates with the rest of your system.

EDIT: I feel very fortunate to have heard both of these subs in person. It's very difficult to make a purchasing decision on something you've never heard before, but I can say without a doubt that both of these subs sound better than anything else that I've ever heard. They both have made dramatic differences in my listening experience. I can't express how important a good quality sub improves the sound of the rest of your system. One thing I noticed is that my surrounds (5.1) sound fuller and deeper with the added bass from both subs. The depth seems to come from the surround speaker even though the sub is 20 ft away. I never thought it would have this kind of impact.
post #9207 of 19461
Thanks for the writeup, BleedGreen. Very well done. It's fun to get a member's detailed impressions of two well-regarded subs.

Just a couple of quick things to consider. First, you mentioned the Sentinel's gain had to be set higher than the EX. That sounds like par for the course. Epik's subs usually need to have the amp turned up higher than many other subs. I think they just aren't quite as sensitive. Second, many Epik owners have noted that their subs seem to get louder as time goes on. I don't know that I totally buy into "break-in", but it appears that these Epiks are pretty stiff out of the box and loosen up after a bit. For now, if you haven't already, it would be good to know if you level matched each subwoofer so they were calibrated equally.

It's really pretty amazing how loud and deep the Sentinel can get considering its rather compact size. Would it be possible for you to take some pics of the two next to each other so we can get an idea of the difference in size?

Thanks again for the review. Enjoy the Sentinel!
post #9208 of 19461
Nice review BleedGreen.
post #9209 of 19461
With all of this talk of the sale on the Sentinel and Vanquish I have yet to read about any reason behind the sale? It looks like both subs share the same driver. To me, that might mean these models will be discontinued shortly. Will they have a direct replacement? Who knows. But I doubt it's just a sale to sell a few more units.

That's had me considering the Sentinel (actually, two of them) to replace a Rhythmik 12SE which is great but lacking in output. The graphs I see of the Vanquish lead me to believe I might not get much more output though.

It sounds like great pricing for those who take advantage of the sale. I'm on the fence though.
post #9210 of 19461
Quote:
Originally Posted by haydonavsforum View Post

With all of this talk of the sale on the Sentinel and Vanquish I have yet to read about any reason behind the sale? It looks like both subs share the same driver. To me, that might mean these models will be discontinued shortly. Will they have a direct replacement? Who knows. But I doubt it's just a sale to sell a few more units.

That's had me considering the Sentinel (actually, two of them) to replace a Rhythmik 12SE which is great but lacking in output. The graphs I see of the Vanquish lead me to believe I might not get much more output though.

It sounds like great pricing for those who take advantage of the sale. I'm on the fence though.

I think the sale on the 12 inchers just means that Chad would like to increase his sales on them, so that they are closer to the sales of his 18 inch models. I would bet that he sells a lot more of the 18 inch models Also, the sale price on the 12 inch models is closer to the 12 inch competition ID companies.
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