Where are the classic films in HD?

So what's the question? It seems like you answered it yourself, HD-DVD has more classic titles.

Films on HD media can only look as good as they did on the film. As you mention titles such as Grad Prix and The Searchers that had a lot of money spent at the time of filiming to make them look spectacular has realy shown through on their transfer to HD.

But if a film is either inentionally shot rough or simply doesn't use the best film stock or hell even the camera man was drunk at the time, there is nothing a studio can do to make them look better/like other top tier titles. With that said i've always found the HD-DVD versions of classic/old/catalog titles look significantly better than their DVD versions and in 99% of cases are the best you will ever get.

mt -

Believe me, you're not the only one dissatisfied with the hd disc selection. One reason I have held off purchasing one format's hardware over the other is because I wanted to allow the studios time to offer a general selection of older & newer titles to generate interest among a broad array of potential buyers. Unfortunately, IMHO they have failed big time. At last count out of over 400 combined BDR and HDDVD discs, I wouldn't want to buy more than 25. The main reason is that there are very few current films that I would want to buy and prefer the "classics".

My suggestion for you is to buy into one format's hardware, buy whatever current releases you like, and use the player as a good upscaler for your classic film library. Any hd player produces a better display than any sd player, even with sd discs. I am continuing to buy sd discs of films that I would want to own because I don't believe very many of them will be made available in hd soon, if ever.

The answer is in the Videoscan numbers.

"Forbidden Planet" etc. sold very poorly. After reviewing the situation, all studios have pulled back on classics.

We are seeing new releases (they sell well and day-and-date is the best time anyway) and selected older titles, mainly action/adventure/genre/comic, but few "classics".

Sony really wanted to release Lawrence of Arabia as an early Blu-ray title. They have even used Lawrence in theming at trade shows. But no sales, so no Lawrence.

Warners said they would ship Hamlet on Blu-ray and HD DVD this summer. They remastered it, but are only shipping on sd DVD. No HD.

Warners shipped a few classics on HD DVD last fall, but that has stopped. The titles have also not been shipped (mainly) on Blu-ray.

___

We need to have an end to the format war so that mass adoption and broadening of the demographic will happen. Until then, nobody is giving us classics.

Enter the Dragon (1973). The PQ is excellent, great movie, btw.

I'd kill for these classic Universal movies on BD, yes BD!

- Dracula (1931)
- Frankenstein (1931)
- Bride Of Frankenstein
- The Invisible Man
- The Wolf Man

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. The Searchers looks great in hidef but that owes as much to the expensive restoration it's received as it does to Vistavision. And that's another issue. Not that many of the older titles outside the 'crown jewels' have received that kind of treatment. And we won't be seeing many of those anytime soon the way catalog titles are selling.

I love 'Forbidden Planet' on HD. The transfer is fantastic. But it's the only "Classic" title that I've bought so far. Like some have said here already, it depends on the title. Following in the footsteps of 'Forbidden Planet', I would also love to see HD/BD versions of:

The First Men in the Moon
Fantastic Voyage
Earth vs. The Flying Saucers
The Day the Earth Stood Still
Journey to the Center of the Earth
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
Mutiny on the Bounty (all 3 incarnations)
The Sound of Music

And of course there are tons of catalog features made in the last 30 years that I would also want.

I don't blame the studios. In fact I applaud the ones who tried. But we as a group didn't buy them in quantities that justified continuing at close to their rate that they tried early on. I think HD DVD got more classics largely because they were tried there and sales were poor enough in general that the studios haven't felt it was worth spending the money for many more or even to bring those to Blu-ray (at least for Warner, a neutral studio). I'm not even sure that 1000 copies of Mutiny on the Bounty have sold (I have one of them and talked to somebody who bought 2 copies accidently).

--Darin

...gotta admit that in those heady, early days of the format war (you know, last October) there was much more enthusiasm for classics on HD disc... I own Casablanca, Mutiny, Forbidden Planet, Grand Prix, and a bunch of the other titles that sold in the dozens. It's been jokingly stated that all owners of either BD or HD DVD are the members of AVS, but that sarcastic comment might, sadly, be true in the case of some of these titles.

There are a gazillion good discs that could actually use the HD treatment - I'll go on a limb right now and suggest that some titles are more than good enough on SD. Some, however, are screaming for good HD releases - Kane, Seven Samurai, North By Northwest/Rear Window/Psycho, Lawrence of Arabia (yeah, I'll believe it when I see it on more than a trailer...)

In short, one cannot live on CRANK alone...

Watched Untouchables tonight, actually - man, I liked that movie a heck of a lot more when I saw it as a teenager...

ps. There has been some suggestion (shared, at times, by me) that the video game console-as-player crowd may not be the classic film lover crowd, resulting in more action/sci-fi contemporary flicks being pushed. I wonder how many PS3 or Xbox owners own these classic films, compared to those with standalone players. Not sure much can be read into it at this stage, but I just can't get my head around, due no doubt to my own predjudices, to using a PS3 or XBOX to play Robin Hood...

Warner is still giving them to us. They released Rio Bravo, The Cowboys and Battle Of The Bulge fairly recently and Jailhouse Rock, Viva Las Vegas, The Wild Bunch, Deliverance, 2001, A Clockwork Orange will be released by them in the next two months.

This may be a reason why Singin' in the Rain never came out on HD DVD? Warner had it on a "list" which was posted all over the web. Looking forward to the Elvis titles, and I guess I have to buy Grand Prix and Mutiny as well, just to get some more classics on HD

I've seen scenes from Grand Prix at a local HT Dealer. The transfer looks incredible. However, it's just not a movie that interest me (I'm not a racing fan). So I haven't, nor will I buy it.

No I think you've got it, unfortunately.I'd bet parts of my body that the demographics would explain why the films that sell so well as opposed to those that don't . I bet that who is buying HD ,at least in the near term, is related to chronological age in a big way. Those of us who love films like Forbidden Planet, I believe, will see a rather grim situation for a while.

Art

Agreed, I believe most PS3 owners require movies to have numerous crashes and explosions or aliens invading before they will but it.

Though of the classics available, most are on HD-DVD, and that's where they're not selling. I think it's a bit silly to blame PS3 owners for not buying HD-DVDs, you know? So elitism aside...

Perhaps it's better to recognize that due to the volume we are dealing with, these classics...which have never been the top sellers in modern days to begin with because the market has always favored new over old, there's just not a lot of room for it. Did we see an explosion of classic films on DVD when that was first introduced? Well, no, we did not. Is this a demographic issue? Perhaps...though I do tire of the characterization of the video game crowd, as one can easily find these trends in larger populaces...like say, the box office. I think we need to recognize that classic films not due to the PS3 demographic, but because of the movie going demographic at large...are just not a potent source of revenue when volume is low. Cause let's get real...the stand-alone crowd ain't buying these movies either...so it's not just the video game demographic that's ignoring them.

Not true, many of the early releases on DVD were classic films and although you may be tiring of the characterization,it is likely true.We all want new releases but seriously this isn't enough to keep anyone in their theaters very much especially considering the overall quality.

My opinion is that the age of those buying into HD optical media is the reason that great catalogue titles aren't selling well.My hope is over time this will change at least somewhat,if it doesn't this will die out rather quickly since the number of viable big selling new releases even based on Crank,Click,or Bad Boys II won't ultimately keep a format floating.

I watched 300 earlier in the week, But watched Conquest of Space on Thurday night. The mix is what will keep it interesting ultimately.

Art

I have to agree with Art. The main demographic for Blu-ray owners skews young and they are not going to be buying classics( there are exceptions of course ). HD DVD owners probably are older on average than Blu-ray owners and would tend to buy more classics. I'm sure Spiderman 3 will pound 2001 or the Wild Bunch in sales even if you combine the Blu-ray and HD DVD sales of both those titles. I'm glad at least Warner is in the classics game. BDA exclusive studios that have great classic titles are leaving my PS3 very lonely.

When you've got Fox and MGM totally MIA, it's surprise that classics are MIA as well.
As has been said previously the gamer demographic doesn't give a damn about classics let alone anything in B&W.
I think titles like Wizard of Oz and Gone with the Wind would sell pretty well.
One can dream.....

But they didn't...so what does that say about that theory? There aren't many classic films to choose from on BD, and while I have no doubt they wouldn't sell well...they didn't sell well on HD-DVD either. So again, how does blaming the PS3 crowd...for movies not selling well on EITHER format...make any sense?


I'm sure Spiderman will sell very well. And while I don't deny that the video game demographics are drawn to films like that, I also recognize that the movie going public in general is drawn to those type of films. I mean, you're trying to say that the second highest grossing film in the world this year is going to be popular on BD because of video game crowds? Might it also be because it's the second most popular movie of the year? Trying to pretend this is a video game demographic issue, and not just a pervasive norm of the movie industry on the whole is missing the big picture. Classic films do not sell as well as new films no matter where you go. Again, you argue the PS3 demographic is the issue here...but then, why don't these sell well on HD-DVD either? The simple truth is, yes younger audiences skew against classic films. But this isn't about video game audiences. Classic films don't sell as well as new films, period. Again, this isn't about the PS3...this is about volume. Without volume, you're not going to see as strong sales for older films. I tire of the video game demographic reference because it's irrelevant, as these trends fit the entire movie going industry. They fit HD-DVD as well as Blu-Ray, which makes the "PS3 owners like explosions" argument just seem silly. I think the key here is understanding the demographics of people who actually buy movies and are early adopters. These classics weren't going to sell regardless if video game consoles were a part of this format war or not...and that's the point I'm trying to make. It's not that the young male (18-40 or so) demographic isn't driving sales...they are...it's that that demographic isn't there simply because of video game consoles. That's the demographic that new technology based around movies would have...regardless. And despite what is said in the post above, DVD was not hit with a deluge of classic films at its launch...either. There's a reason The Matrix is considered an almost watermark film in DVD history...because the young male demographic drives these markets first. This just isn't about video games since the trends will exist with or without. As one of these formats grow, we'll get more classic films...and more niche films, and cult films, and offbeat films, and foreign films. These are simply more niche market products, and as such, they take longer to come out. That's the reality of this. Had the format war been based around standalone sales only...you wouldn't see it being much different.

That being said, I do wish WB would hurry up and release Forbidden Planet on Blu-Ray.

The "video game demographic" is only a part of the matter.

There are a lot of versions of the classics out today. Beta, VHS, LD, DVD, and some other formats.

I personally own 3 copies of Singin' in the Rain, for example.

So what will it take?

1. First and foremost, we need to end the format war so that adoption will increase and the demographic will broaden.
2. Secondly, studios will have to mount very special versions of things. It will not be enough to use the 1080i cable master or the DVD special features.

Look at Warners' new Blade Runner. This is the right approach. I have already ordered it. Were it just another version of what I already have (and have already bought on DVD or LD), I wouldn't be interested.

Who say's the classics are not selling well.

Honestly, studios will be well aware a classic won't move as many titles as a new release, especially on launch.

What they do do is sell slow and steadily over time. Which is priced correctly will give the studio a nice income stream.

Personally i'm satisfied with the quantity and quality of classic titles on HD-DVD. My collection is a nice 60/40 split between classic and "modern. Sure more would be nice, but there's a limit to how many discs i can buy per month.

I'm having a fine time watching older movies on HD-DVD. I'm beginning to think the studios have substituted CGI for plot, dialog, character development and acting.

In many cases they have, but fortunately as time goes along...these films will come out in larger numbers.

Granted, generally speaking, movies usually aren't that good...classics just benefit from the filter of nobody remembering the dreck.

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this link before, but here is a link to a very interesting response by Roger Ebert to Clive Barker:

Games vs. Art: Ebert vs. Barker

Here is a snapshot of what Ebert had to say:


IMHO, there is something about video games and video game movies which distinguishes them from movies in the classic sense. Video games and video game movies are all about action, winning/losing, fighting, killing, moving from level to level, and beating the most powerful villain to score the final victory. Many of them are quite violent. Few of them emphasize character and plot development. Their pace is nervous and impatient, jumping from level to level, with little savoring of quality dialogue and interchange between characters. They seem to move so fast, yet achieve so little. They are very entertaining, but not worth studying or reflecting upon. Indeed, as Ebert comments, these games and movies have more in common with sports events than with high art. This helps me understand why so many see the competition between the formats as a "war," where winning or losing, killing or being killed, is the main thing. This is just my humble opinion and my take on why certain people seem to prefer video game movies over classic movies.

Edit to add: In addition to discussing the influence of video games on movies, it would be interesting to explore the impact of comic books on movies. Video game movies and comic book movies seem to have some important differences.

Give it time.

2001:

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/453/...ceodyssey.html

20 Million Miles from Earth:

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/1007...estoearth.html

Nobody ? Who is this convenient ,nebulous person ? I remember it,I've watched it, but having eighty yeasrs of films to choose from is way better than having five years.


Art