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The "Official" Yamaha RX-V1800/RX-V3800 Thread - Page 51

post #1501 of 8492
1/20/08 at 9:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddielives View Post

I scanned over a couple of pages, but not all, and didn't see any posts for the descrete NEC codes for these receivers. Figured I'd post 'em if anybody wanted to use them.

This is great, thanks! I needed to load Japanese fonts for some reason to get the full list to come through.

Do you know how to use these for a Pronto remote? There are only two HEX number pairs to use for each function, but when I program from the 3800 remote directly, I can get up to 100 codes read for one button. Thanks.
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post #1502 of 8492
1/20/08 at 10:06am
I am going to order my 1800 tomorrow, I am very excited considering what I have been reading here!
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post #1503 of 8492
1/20/08 at 10:33am
Watching the "legacy" Alien vs Predator to test sd-dvd upscaling, sound etc., with my combo of Panasonic BD-30, Yamaha 1800 and Samsung 61 inch 6189S. All I can say is WOW. I am passing the "legacy", just love that we are calling DTS sound tracks LEGACY, sound track via bitstream to the Yamaha. Man, it sounds tremendous. I have a Pioneer 1015 that was no slouch either. It always sounded great. Still does. The Yamaha is just better. Wife factor passes with flying colors. She just said, "This sounds great!" Actually she's the Alien/Predator series fan. The Yamaha gets flying colors with 5.1 speaker system and "legacy" DTS codec decoding. Haven't even tweaked room size, delay, etc, yet.
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post #1504 of 8492
1/20/08 at 10:33am
I just bought a rx-v1800 Friday (replaced rx-v1700), and I love it! While similar, some settings are different. I would like to thank every poster on here as when I set-up if the manual couldn't help, the info on here was invaluable. Still playing around with some settings, but that is half the fun.
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post #1505 of 8492
1/20/08 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

Watching the "legacy" Alien vs Predator to test sd-dvd upscaling, sound etc., with my combo of Panasonic BD-30, Yamaha 1800 and Samsung 61 inch 6189S. All I can say is WOW. I am passing the "legacy", just love that we are calling DTS sound tracks LEGACY, sound track via bitstream to the Yamaha. Man, it sounds tremendous. I have a Pioneer 1015 that was no slouch either. It always sounded great. Still does. The Yamaha is just better. Wife factor passes with flying colors. She just said, "This sounds great!" Actually she's the Alien/Predator series fan. The Yamaha gets flying colors with 5.1 speaker system and "legacy" DTS codec decoding. Haven't even tweaked room size, delay, etc, yet.

I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on your 1800's video processing (deinterlacing/upconverting) on SD DVD and cable/sat (SD & digital).

Are you passing everything to tv for processing? Upscaling in the 1800 prior to tv better? Worse? No difference?

Thanks
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post #1506 of 8492
1/20/08 at 11:41am
toby,

I am only running the bluray player through the Yamaha. Since my video settings at my TV are different for the HD Cable box vs the bluray/dvd player the only way I can prevent from having to redo the video settings each time is to keep source devices on seperate inputs to the TV. So cable goes to one input, the Yamaha to another. The audio demand is what drives my choices for what goes through the Yamaha. I don't need the hd audio, not yet anyway, off my cable so it is coax to the Yamaha, component with audio to the TV. Tried HDMI to the TV but sometimes audio would drop and the component with analog audio from the box seems to be more stable for audio. So I can only tell you my eval from the single source, the BD-30.

Its set to 1080p on the hdmi out. The Yamaha is set to "Through" for the HDMI input, thinking that bypasses its upscaling, and using the BD30 set to 1080P the picture is outstanding. When setting the BD-30 to "Auto" or "480p" and the Yamaha to 1080P, "Smart" or "16:9", the picture is outstanding. I'm thinking you need real live testing equipment to document the difference. I can't tell any. Both ways are amazing. My TV will upscale too so there is one more variable. (Still figuring out how to bypass its upscaling/upconverting and testing pure pre-display upscaling/upconverting.)
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post #1507 of 8492
1/20/08 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

toby,

I am only running the bluray player through the Yamaha. Since my video settings at my TV are different for the HD Cable box vs the bluray/dvd player the only way I can prevent from having to redo the video settings each time is to keep source devices on seperate inputs to the TV. So cable goes to one input, the Yamaha to another. The audio demand is what drives my choices for what goes through the Yamaha. I don't need the hd audio, not yet anyway, off my cable so it is coax to the Yamaha, component with audio to the TV. Tried HDMI to the TV but sometimes audio would drop and the component with analog audio from the box seems to be more stable for audio. So I can only tell you my eval from the single source, the BD-30.

Its set to 1080p on the hdmi out. The Yamaha is set to "Through" for the HDMI input, thinking that bypasses its upscaling, and using the BD30 set to 1080P the picture is outstanding. When setting the BD-30 to "Auto" or "480p" and the Yamaha to 1080P, "Smart" or "16:9", the picture is outstanding. I'm thinking you need real live testing equipment to document the difference. I can't tell any. Both ways are amazing. My TV will upscale too so there is one more variable. (Still figuring out how to bypass its upscaling/upconverting and testing pure pre-display upscaling/upconverting.)

Very cool. I don't believe cable will ever offer HD Audio, just DD & 2ch. audio. As for bypassing the tv's video processing, usually the only way to accomplish this is to send the tv it's EXACT native rate. Even then, some tv's will ignore the fact that the incoming video is already at it's native rate and process it anyway.

Enjoy!
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post #1508 of 8492
1/20/08 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vizner124 View Post

Anyone tried using Sonos Digital Music system with RX-V1800/RX-V3800 ? I own V3800 and want to stream music from different sources (CD, Internet radio, PC) via wired network to a remote pier location located about 300 feet from the main house. The pier is wired to the same network as V3800 is. Any ideas? Thanks!

Yes, I use Sonos with my 3800.

To make the inputs to your receiver available on Sonos, you'd connect the analog Tape-out from the receiver to the line-in on a Sonos zone player. All other Sonos zone players, including a wired one at the remote pier location, could play whatever the receiver is playing.

Note that only analog sources can be rerouted this way. This is a 3800 limitation that also applies to the Zone2/3 outputs.
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post #1509 of 8492
1/20/08 at 1:43pm
Digging into the Yamaha now. It does have a learning curve. Anyone who thinks the issue of codecs/pcm/bitstream is complicated, God help you when you hit all the sound field decoder stuff....

On my Pioneer 1015 it had an option for dialog enhancement. It was a nice feature especially for sports with an announcer. I don't see this as a direct option for the Yamaha. You can adjust what appears to be all the parameters that the Pioneer was doing behind the scenes with this dialog enhancment. Anyone accomlish this and if so what decoder mode and what settings did you use?

Also the front panel display. I prefer once sound fields, etc., are tweaked that the display goes back to the input display, most of the time then it shows whatever the input/source is. Once I set a sound field I can't get the display to go back to the input display. I don't want to see SUR. DECODE all the time. Is there a way to change this or is this the way it stays?
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post #1510 of 8492
1/20/08 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo99uoft View Post

Need Help.

I just bought the RX-V1800. I hooked up my fronts and the sub only. I have the Bic Acoustech H100. I auto calibrated with the mic.
When I am playing 2 channel music, I am getting on SUB sound from the sub.
I checked to make sure "Speaker Set / LFE" menu was set to "BOTH" (output LFE both to the front and SUB).

However, nothing is coming out of my sub. Any reason?

Please help. Please

This is a confusing setting. The "Both" setting sends LFE signals to the Sub and the Front speakers. It does not sent Front speaker signals to the Sub. Got it? If you want the Sub to turn on you have to create an LFE channel by selecting a sound field or surround decoder. You will not get the sub to turn on with "Straight" or "Pure direct" (I think it might turn on with 2 and 7 channel stereo, I can't remember).
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post #1511 of 8492
1/20/08 at 1:51pm
I am a new owner of the RX-V3800. I have a question about speaker setup. I have a center speaker on order which should arrive any day now. In the mean time, I went to the manual setup on the 3800 and set center speaker off. The manual (pg. 92) says this will direct the voice to the left and right fronts. However, when I do this, the surrounds no longer produce any sound. I have also turned off the surround back and presence speakers. Any thoughts why the surrounds would not function? Thanks.
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post #1512 of 8492
1/20/08 at 1:59pm
"You will not get the sub to turn on with "Straight" or "Pure direct" (I think it might turn on with 2 and 7 channel stereo, I can't remember)."

I'm not sure why this is the case. With my Pioneer it had a "Plus" mode that sent signals to the sw like when listening to the radio/tuner in stereo. Is it the case that with these Yamaha's the sw only works with a dsp mode? No subwoofer with stereo modes like the tuner?
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post #1513 of 8492
1/20/08 at 1:59pm
Here's a fun question for you. 0.1 in a 5.1 setup refers to the output being 10 decibels lower than the other channels (10db less = 01., because of logarithmic scaling). Now, my sub is in a basement with a carpeted cement floor, and this situation isn't subwoofer friendly, but does anyone think that the 10dB correction might not have been taken into account in the YPAO setup? My sub seems to be set really low when I let YPAO determine the level.

I'm not a fan of people who think the quality of their Home theater is the amount of boom they can get because it's often a crappy sounding LFE.

Question: has anyone else found themselves turning their sub higher than the YPAO settings?
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post #1514 of 8492
1/20/08 at 2:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVchemE View Post

This is a confusing setting. The "Both" setting sends LFE signals to the Sub and the Front speakers. It does not sent Front speaker signals to the Sub. Got it? If you want the Sub to turn on you have to create an LFE channel by selecting a sound field or surround decoder. You will not get the sub to turn on with "Straight" or "Pure direct" (I think it might turn on with 2 and 7 channel stereo, I can't remember).

You will not get any signals going to the sub in Pure Direct mode, but you will in Straight mode.
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post #1515 of 8492
1/20/08 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

Its set to 1080p on the hdmi out. The Yamaha is set to "Through" for the HDMI input, thinking that bypasses its upscaling, and using the BD30 set to 1080P the picture is outstanding. When setting the BD-30 to "Auto" or "480p" and the Yamaha to 1080P, "Smart" or "16:9", the picture is outstanding. I'm thinking you need real live testing equipment to document the difference. I can't tell any. Both ways are amazing. My TV will upscale too so there is one more variable. (Still figuring out how to bypass its upscaling/upconverting and testing pure pre-display upscaling/upconverting.)

If you're using the HDMI output on your BD30, then the Yamaha is doing no upscaling or deinterlacing whatsoever, regardless of what resolution the BD30 is set to output at.

All video signals coming in to the receiver via HDMI are passed through, so in your situation there is no valid comparison to be made. All upconverting and deinterlacing is being performed by your TV.
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post #1516 of 8492
1/20/08 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by interpol View Post

You will not get any signals going to the sub in Pure Direct mode, but you will in Straight mode.

I have a V1800 and this is also what I have directly observed.

I since changed how I have my subwoofer connected by using parallel connections from the speaker level output terminals to go to BOTH the Front L/R AND my subwoofer. I changed the V1800 speaker setting to "Large" and No sub.

Now I get sound coming from my sub in "Pure Direct" AND I STILL get LFE effects for 5.1 Surround while watching DVDs or when endulging in any DSP surround effects.

Depending on how picky/anal you are, you may want to experiment with your setup for what your listening habits are.

I really enjoy the "Pure Direct" for digital cable music, 2 channel music CDs - sweet sounding thru the Yammy.

Erik
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post #1517 of 8492
1/20/08 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

"You will not get the sub to turn on with "Straight" or "Pure direct" (I think it might turn on with 2 and 7 channel stereo, I can't remember)."

I'm not sure why this is the case. With my Pioneer it had a "Plus" mode that sent signals to the sw like when listening to the radio/tuner in stereo. Is it the case that with these Yamaha's the sw only works with a dsp mode? No subwoofer with stereo modes like the tuner?

Interpol, you were right. I'm editing my post. "Straight" 2 channel stereo does output bass to the subwoofer.

I could be wrong about this, but I think that on the HTR-5990 it did not send a signal to the subwoofer on "straight". I took it in to get repaired because I was mistaken on how the "Both" setting worked.

Recap: 2 channel, stereo signal can be played back with 2 fronts and a subwoofer when "2 channel stero" or "straight" is selected on the amp. If "Both" is selected, the LFE channel of the DSP or signal will be sent to both the subwofer and front speakers. For one-to-one playback (1 channel signal to 1 speaker) select pure direct.
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post #1518 of 8492
1/20/08 at 2:20pm
AV...

I was just cruising the owner's manual pdf file and found it as well. Very clearly states will do so as long as sw output is set to both OR front speakers set to small. Is that how you read it?
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post #1519 of 8492
1/20/08 at 2:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Tracy View Post

I since changed how I have my subwoofer connected by using parallel connections from the speaker level output terminals to go to BOTH the Front L/R AND my subwoofer. I changed the V1800 speaker setting to "Large" and No sub.

Now I get sound coming from my sub in "Pure Direct" AND I STILL get LFE effects for 5.1 Surround while watching DVDs or when endulging in any DSP surround effects.

Depending on how picky/anal you are, you may want to experiment with your setup for what your listening habits are.

I really enjoy the "Pure Direct" for digital cable music, 2 channel music CDs - sweet sounding thru the Yammy.

Erik

Be careful Erik. Running speakers in parallel will decrease the resistance that the Amp sees, increasing the current and heat. This should only be a problem for the Yamaha if you're using 4ohm speakers. I assume you already know this. Make sure you're well ventilated.

Of course you'll still get an LFE channel in Pure Direct mode because Pure Direct Simply outputs what it receives and processes nothing! Now that I re-read your post, it doesn't look like you were complaining about this.
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post #1520 of 8492
1/20/08 at 2:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVchemE View Post

Be careful Erik. Running speakers in parallel will decrease the resistance that the Amp sees, increasing the current and heat. This should only be a problem for the Yamaha if you're using 4ohm speakers. I assume you already know this. Make sure you're well ventilated.

Of course you'll still get an LFE channel in Pure Direct mode because Pure Direct Simply outputs what it receives and processes nothing! Now that I re-read your post, it doesn't look like you were complaining about this.

I'm running 8 ohms for fronts and sub.

AVR is on the top shelf - totally open.

I changed the set up based on reading Polk's FAQ on bass management as I was getting NO sub output via the LFE connection when in Pure Direct (duh - because it is a 2-channel only mode with no outputs to the LFE channel).

So far I get the best of both worlds - fantastic 2-channel in Pure Direct with powerful subwoofer output AND .1/LFE effects when watching 5.1 programs.

Erik
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post #1521 of 8492
1/20/08 at 4:06pm
"All video signals coming in to the receiver via HDMI are passed through..."

Interpol,

Thanks. And yes realize this as the HDMI at this level is not doing any upscaling, etc. However the settings on the HDMI pass through on the receiver do impact something. If I set it to 16:9, Through, etc., it changes the video for the signal fromteh reciver for OSD. So it really is just a way to see how the changes impact the video quality that way than any other.

I suppose in the negative I could see IF the signal degrades in any way by hooking directly to the TV.

I did as noted set the bluray to 480p, ran through the receiver and the display was 16:9. Very good quality as well. The TV is doing a great job.

Jim
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post #1522 of 8492
1/20/08 at 4:12pm
Erik,

I was thinking about that kind of setup as well. Kinda forces the issue so that the SW plays no matter what. Could be a better way to go. In one way it simplifies a lot. In another may limit you though.

But then you are also forcing bass management into the settings on the sub yes? So crossover point, etc., for the receiver other than making sure its off mean nothing. Which is ok, not right or wrong mind you, just different. When you say you still get LFE effects with this setup doesn't that take some qualifying? As in you get some LFE effect but not the full LFE effects/managment one gets when using a receiver.

According to the owner's manual the unit does use the sw if not using sound fields.
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post #1523 of 8492
1/20/08 at 4:22pm
jsmiddleton, what part are you reading? Can you give me a page number? All I know is that it appears that all processing of the signal will create a LFE channel if the Bass output is set to "Both" or the front speakers are set to "Small".

The HTR-5990 didn't have so many bass output options when selected to "Both".

Beatlefan: I remember reading certain conditions about the speaker setup. I think the argument is something like... If you don't have a center speaker why would we even worry about surround channels. I could be making this all up. What I can do is I can simulate your situation and get back to you. I just didn't see anyone responding and wanted to acknowledge your post.
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post #1524 of 8492
1/20/08 at 4:24pm
Getting lost in sound field land here....

Ok so what use is the way the test tone is configured on the 1800? Its nice to have the sound going round and round but how to you do anything with it? I can't seem to find a way to raise or lower volume while the test tone going round and round....

Edit: Figured it out. Set to ON will when you go back into speaker set/volume do a test tone.
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post #1525 of 8492
1/20/08 at 4:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

Erik,

I was thinking about that kind of setup as well. Kinda forces the issue so that the SW plays no matter what. Could be a better way to go. In one way it simplifies a lot. In another may limit you though.

But then you are also forcing bass management into the settings on the sub yes? So crossover point, etc., for the receiver other than making sure its off mean nothing. Which is ok, not right or wrong mind you, just different. When you say you still get LFE effects with this setup doesn't that take some qualifying? As in you get some LFE effect but not the full LFE effects/managment one gets when using a receiver.

According to the owner's manual the unit does use the sw if not using sound fields.

I have given up subwoofer management via the AVR with the way I have my setup, but my Polk SW has its own crossover adjustment and volume - so I have not given up any control on how the sub effects get 'blended' with my Fronts.

And with the AVR set to NO sub - ALL LFE effects get sent to the fronts -and also my sub, because it is also wired to the front outs on the AVR - so yes, I still get ALL LFE effects.

I also have noticed that with the Stereo Direct mode that I did get sub outputs when my sub was connected via the sub out on the AVR.

BUT - I wanted to use the "Pure Direct" mode - so my option is what works best for me. I spent the afternoon listening to some smooth jazz via digital cable in "Pure Direct" - wow - just grinning from ear to ear with the sound I was getting from the V1800. VERY happy I made the choice and the hookup I have now.

Go experiment - listen and decide what works for you - which is what is important - not what the other guy has.

YMMV,
Erik
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post #1526 of 8492
1/20/08 at 4:32pm
AV,

Page 53 where it is talking about stereo mode.
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post #1527 of 8492
1/20/08 at 4:36pm
Go experiment...

Yes but somethings we don't REALLY want to know. If you get my drift. "So dear, just why did we spend all this money and you have it hooked up like you did years ago?????"

My Klipsch SW can more than handle this. It would just be kind of a bit of a head scratcher to have it sound better that way than with all this fancy doodle stuff hooked up....

Edit: On my Pioneer 1015 the "Plus" setting did keep the sw in play regardless of the sound fields. So when I listened to the radio in just straight stereo mode, the SW worked.

I also wonder if the sw output can be changed by a firmware change. Or the option added for "Pure Direct". It seems to me using the SW is not about how you process the signal in the receiver, Pure Direct. Bascially if you turn on Pure Direct Yamaha is forcing us to not use our very expensive SW's. Something doesn't seem right about that. What would it take to have an option for Pure Direct Mode so that in the option screen you have a choice, "In Pure Direct turn off SW", "In Pure Direct Mode use the SW". Or "Use SW for all sources/options", "Use SW for all sources/options except Pure Direct"? Like the "Plus" mode on my Pioneer 1015. If you know how do the Pioneer's do this now?
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post #1528 of 8492
1/20/08 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

AV...

I was just cruising the owner's manual pdf file and found it as well. Very clearly states will do so as long as sw output is set to both OR front speakers set to small. Is that how you read it?

If "Both" is selected then yes, the sub should be on. Is that not what you're finding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

Getting lost in sound field land here....

Ok so what use is the way the test tone is configured on the 1800?

I have found that having the ability to turn the test tone on or off has been useful when I want to change the level of a speaker without interupting whatever is playing. Second, turning it on is a quick way to make sure that the speakers are hooked up and hooked up correctly, and of course for checking levels. I usually do things through the menu not the "Level" button, so maybe your experience is a little different, because I'm not sure what you don't like about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

AV,

Page 53 where it is talking about stereo mode.

Thanks for the reference. I looked at page 80 and the corresponding page for the HTR-5990. Yamaha definitely changed the meaning of "Both" from one system to the next. I'll post this in a seperate reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

Go experiment...

This is probably the best advice you can give.
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post #1529 of 8492
1/20/08 at 5:04pm
I'm going to post what "Both" means in the RX-V1800 and in the HTR-5990. If you read both of them and find the differences, you'll understand better what the Receiver does with LFE and low-frequency signals.

Straight from the Yamaha Manuals:

RX-V1800: Select “BOTH” (both). The low-frequency signals of
any source are output from the subwoofer. The LFE
signals as well as the low-frequency signals of other
speakers set to “SML” (or “SMALL”) are directed to
the subwoofer. The low-frequency signals of the front
left and right channels are directed to the front left and
right speakers and the subwoofer regardless of the
“FRONT SP” setting.

HTR-5990: Select “BOTH” (both). The low-frequency signals of
any source are output from the subwoofer. The LFE
signals as well as the low-frequency signals of other
speakers set to “SML” (or “SMALL”) are directed to
the subwoofer. The low-frequency signals of the front
left and right channels are directed to the front left and
right speakers and the subwoofer regardless of the
“FRONT SP” setting.
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post #1530 of 8492
1/20/08 at 5:09pm
AV,

Thanks but I'm not confused by what the settings mean. I'm wondering if there is a better way to make full use of our sw's than with these settings. If you want Pure Direct then why at the same time are you forced to drop your subwoofer? Try explaining that to someone who has turned their home into an infinite baffle sw array!
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