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The "Official" Yamaha RX-V1800/RX-V3800 Thread - Page 54

post #1591 of 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyteOn View Post

Quick question for you guys: I have a V1800 running my home theater. Directv guy came over to replace box and unhooked my audio cables. Everything else works (DVD, CD, PS, etc) except for the DTV sound. I was using the component cables and not HDMI. It's such a simple thing but I'm going to lose my mind - I can't figure out where the audio cables plug into the Yamaha. Everywhere I plug them in results in one of two things: 1) nothing or 2) INCREDIBLY loud sound that can't be controlled up or down. Does anyone have any suggestions? I would be truly grateful to not have to spent $110 to have my AV guy come out for something that seems so easy.

Were you using the analog RCA's or a digital interconnect like Coax or Optical?
post #1592 of 8628
I really wish I knew the difference. They aren't the basic RCA plugs. They're pretty high end looking cables from Tara Labs.
post #1593 of 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyteOn View Post

I really wish I knew the difference. They aren't the basic RCA plugs. They're pretty high end looking cables from Tara Labs.

Skip is asking if you are using two analog RCA's (left & right) or a single RCA from digital coax out of STB into your 1800.
post #1594 of 8628
Oh, ok. Thank you for the clarification. There are two cables L and R. They were originally plugged into the Directv box under Audio 2 (I'm not sure why they weren't plugged into Audio 1).

As you can tell I'm totally out of my league so I appreciate the baby steps.
post #1595 of 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyteOn View Post

Oh, ok. Thank you for the clarification. There are two cables L and R. They were originally plugged into the Directv box under Audio 2 (I'm not sure why they weren't plugged into Audio 1).

As you can tell I'm totally out of my league so I appreciate the baby steps.



Your sat box may have it's volume turned way up. Turn down your sat volume and your 1800 volume. Plug your L&R cables into DTV (or whatever input you are using for sat box). You may want to try both Audio 1 and 2 from sat box, see if there is any difference.

But I'm thinking you probably want to use the single RCA type plug from your sat box to the 1800 so you can get Dolby Digital to your 1800. These are single RCA plugs on the back of your devices usually orange in color.

If you stick with the L&R RCA's you will only get 2 ch. stereo sound.

Is your sat box's video going direct (no pun) to your tv? Or are you going through your 1800 for video from your sat box?
post #1596 of 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanNM View Post

I don't have a 3800, I have a 1800, but I think what holds for the 1800 should hold for the 3800 as well. I am fairly certain that my 1800 will pass 1080p @ 24fps. I have a samsung 1400 bluray player which has a firmware glitch when playing at 24fps (skips a frame about every 30 to 60 seconds). I regularly watch movies with the 24fps setting turned on and notice the glitch (I put up with it because I like the smoother motion on pans, etc.) so I believe the 1800 is passing the 24fps video.

Anyway, I suggest opening the box and enjoying your new receiver, I think you'll be very happy with it.
Ian


Thanks, Ian

It maybe the 1800/3800 passes or tries to pass HDMI in a "Pure Video" mode, so it attempts to pass the 24Hz signal, judders because the receiver cannot output, and then the TV just receives it at 60Hz. Have you tried to run your bluray player @ 60Hz (60 fps) and see if the glitch is still there? Its absence may confirm what you say, or what I say, because unless your TV confirms a 24fps input, we can't know what it is displaying. Can you get your TV to show it is receiving 24fps, please? If not, that could explain the "firmware glitch when playing at 24fps" symptoms; a 60Hz "blockage".
post #1597 of 8628
Somehow I have full surround sound - I know I do with the DVDs. No, the Sat box goes to the 1800. Thanks for the help.
post #1598 of 8628
Anyone know what would be the best way to upgrade from a v1800 to v3800, my AVR is already out of the 30day return period =(
post #1599 of 8628
toby...

"Pure Direct is just a marketing term. Calling it the 'No Audio Processing Button'"

Again, a crossover so one can use a subwoofer is not the same as audio processing to create a subwoofer channel as is done with "creating" a subwoofer channel. Being able to use a crossover is "apples", audio processing is "oranges".

"I'd bet you still LOVE your new Yammy"

Yep. Great piece of gear. I would like them to change four things. 1. I'd like the display to return to the input/source screen and off the sound image screen. 2. I'd like the option to use the subwoofer regardless of audio settings/sound field settings. I'd like to be able to choose how I want to use my equipment. 3. Direct tuning for Tuner/Radio. 4. Allow naming of our customized sound fields. For my use I get the best sound for listening to TV with one of the "Music" sound fields. I can adjust the center channel parameters, sound field parameters to get the dialog enhanced the way I want. It would be nice to name it something that isn't "Music"...

With ALL it does having just 4 is pretty dang good in my book.

My only other complaint is not Yamaha related. In genereal I do not understand why on these high end receivers the AM sections suck. Given my $19.99 portable radio has a great AM section the chips to enable AM reception can't be all that costly. Some of us actually do listen to talk radio while working and local sports programs when our teams aren't on TV.
post #1600 of 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Natural View Post

Anyone know what would be the best way to upgrade from a v1800 to v3800, my AVR is already out of the 30day return period =(

nice edit you went from calling us fanboys -to asking for advice *g*.
post #1601 of 8628
Fyte...

Hang it there. You'll get it. Even though it seems intimidating or a bit confusing at first it really isn't. I mean afterall, some of us have figured it out.

On my cable box, which isn't exactly the same but best I can do as an example, my component cable goes from the cable box to the TV for both video and audio. I picked up a very nice and reasonably priced 5 cable cable from Monoprice (now that's smooth hey?) and run it to the TV. 3 cables for the r/b/g component video and 2 cables red/white for analog audio. When I want to watch Just TV, not listen to the TV through the stereo, the red/white analog cables carry the audio to the TV. Plus I don't really care if the TV is getting a dolby digital signal from the highdef cable box. THEN to my stereo I run a coax digital cable (could be optical as well) that I also bought for a reasonable price at Monoprice to the stereo. So when I want to watch TV and listen through the stereo (like football games yesterday) the receiver gets the digital signal from the cable box, video to the TV via component, and I turn down or turn off the TV's speakers AND doing so keeps the dolby audio information intact to my stereo in a way that using the analog audio ports would not.

It sounds like you need to do something similiar.

And I went through that to say this. IF you use HDMI on some of these sat/cable boxes you will lose the audio signal on some of the other ports. I don't know if yours does or not. Just know that if you go to HDMI, which you can also pick up for a very reasonable price at Monoprice , you may lose the audio signal.

The audio ports on the back of your SAT being audio 1 or 2 probably don't matter. It probably has the same audio feed to both. Probably the same if you have more than 1 set of composite video ports.

IF you decide to run a setup similiar to mine you will need to configure your Yamaha to use whichever digital port in that you choose an assign it to the input source you also select.
post #1602 of 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmesch View Post

Thanks, Ian

It maybe the 1800/3800 passes or tries to pass HDMI in a "Pure Video" mode, so it attempts to pass the 24Hz signal, judders because the receiver cannot output, and then the TV just receives it at 60Hz. Have you tried to run your bluray player @ 60Hz (60 fps) and see if the glitch is still there? Its absence may confirm what you say, or what I say, because unless your TV confirms a 24fps input, we can't know what it is displaying. Can you get your TV to show it is receiving 24fps, please? If not, that could explain the "firmware glitch when playing at 24fps" symptoms; a 60Hz "blockage".

Thanks for the suggestion. Its definitely a problem with the Samsung unit though, its been widely discussed on the bd-1400's forum for months now as the problem was introduced with the latest firmware update from Samsung. I was also able to reproduce it with an Onkyo 805 I tried out and eventually sent back (terrible lip-sync issues there). My TV won't display anything about the input besides 1080p so I can't check that.

I really think the Yamaha is okay with regards to the 24fps pass through.
ian
post #1603 of 8628
Thank you all. Turns out that I had the cables hooked up correctly and one of the cables was bad. I pinched it and tweaked it and it all came back. Amazing. Well, at least I found this webpage! I've the 1800 for a month now and have no idea what I own. I look forwrad to reading all of your posts.

Thank you again!
post #1604 of 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by /nev/dull View Post

nice edit you went from calling us fanboys -to asking for advice *g*.

I was reading from several pages back when you were talking in circles regarding the superiority of receiver vs. player decoding. Once I was more current I seen the argument had now been replaced on the purity of pure direct. Either way wasn't really looking for a response from the decoding debater crew; I'm sure you are too busy formulating the next technical response in your digital forum war.
post #1605 of 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

toby...

"Pure Direct is just a marketing term. Calling it the 'No Audio Processing Button'"

Again, a crossover so one can use a subwoofer is not the same as audio processing to create a subwoofer channel as is done with "creating" a subwoofer channel. Being able to use a crossover is "apples", audio processing is "oranges".

"I'd bet you still LOVE your new Yammy"

Yep. Great piece of gear. I would like them to change four things. 1. I'd like the display to return to the input/source screen and off the sound image screen. 2. I'd like the option to use the subwoofer regardless of audio settings/sound field settings. I'd like to be able to choose how I want to use my equipment. 3. Direct tuning for Tuner/Radio. 4. Allow naming of our customized sound fields. For my use I get the best sound for listening to TV with one of the "Music" sound fields. I can adjust the center channel parameters, sound field parameters to get the dialog enhanced the way I want. It would be nice to name it something that isn't "Music"...

With ALL it does having just 4 is pretty dang good in my book.

My only other complaint is not Yamaha related. In genereal I do not understand why on these high end receivers the AM sections suck. Given my $19.99 portable radio has a great AM section the chips to enable AM reception can't be all that costly. Some of us actually do listen to talk radio while working and local sports programs when our teams aren't on TV.

Well, think what you like, but adjustable crossover's requires processing, it just does. It is indeed related. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I don't follow you on #1. Agree with you on your remaining points. I also listen to a lot of talk radio, but only in the car (travel a LOT for biz). Have you tried a different antenna for your AM signals?

My only other disagreement with you is your insistence on calling your AVR "high end". It just plain is not high end. You spend 20k on a sound system, then we'll discuss "high end".
post #1606 of 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by FyteOn View Post

Somehow I have full surround sound - I know I do with the DVDs. No, the Sat box goes to the 1800. Thanks for the help.

Meaning it is now working properly? Or you got surround in the past using L&R RCA analogs? You will get surround with L&R, just not Dolby Digital 5.1. What you will get with L&R analogs is Pro Logic II which takes any 2.0 audio and "downmixes" it to output onto a 5.1 speaker system.

I *think* to get true Dolby Digital 5.1 you must use the Digital Coax or the Optical/Toslink (both single cables) as these have the expanded bandwith to get 5.1 discreet channels.

The other option to get 5.1 is using 6 sets (L&R) of analog outs from your source input into your AVR's Multi-Channel (6 sets in L&R). But this requires DD decoding at the source *I think* and LOTS more cables. This is why the single cable option is MUCH preferred.

All this assuming I understand DD & PLII.
post #1607 of 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmesch View Post

Thanks, Ian

It maybe the 1800/3800 passes or tries to pass HDMI in a "Pure Video" mode, so it attempts to pass the 24Hz signal, judders because the receiver cannot output, and then the TV just receives it at 60Hz. Have you tried to run your bluray player @ 60Hz (60 fps) and see if the glitch is still there? Its absence may confirm what you say, or what I say, because unless your TV confirms a 24fps input, we can't know what it is displaying. Can you get your TV to show it is receiving 24fps, please? If not, that could explain the "firmware glitch when playing at 24fps" symptoms; a 60Hz "blockage".


Just to get into the 24fps capability discussions, The following is from Yamaha web site regarding RX-V3800

"Latest HDMI 1.3a (4 in/1 out) specification supports with Deep Color (30/36 bit) transmission, 120Hz and 24Hz Refresh Rates and Auto Lip-Sync compensation"

Does this mean that it supports 24fps...?

I don't have a Blue-Ray or HD-DVD player to verify whether the 3800 (or 1800) supports the 24fps. Anyone tested?
post #1608 of 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

On my cable box, which isn't exactly the same but best I can do as an example, my component cable goes from the cable box to the TV for both video and audio. I picked up a very nice and reasonably priced 5 cable cable from Monoprice (now that's smooth hey?) and run it to the TV. 3 cables for the r/b/g component video and 2 cables red/white for analog audio. When I want to watch Just TV, not listen to the TV through the stereo, the red/white analog cables carry the audio to the TV. Plus I don't really care if the TV is getting a dolby digital signal from the highdef cable box. THEN to my stereo I run a coax digital cable (could be optical as well) that I also bought for a reasonable price at Monoprice to the stereo. So when I want to watch TV and listen through the stereo (like football games yesterday) the receiver gets the digital signal from the cable box, video to the TV via component, and I turn down or turn off the TV's speakers AND doing so keeps the dolby audio information intact to my stereo in a way that using the analog audio ports would not.

OK, My STB has only one set of component video/ analog audio jacks with one optical audio jack. My TV has plenty of inputs but is only a 768P screen. I bought the 3800 party because I hoped it would do a better job scaling the SD TV channels than the TV, we all know how bad that looks, and to "cleanup" the wire jungle a little by going as HDMI as possible.

My questions are:
1. Was I right and does the 3800 upconvert SD TV to an image that is better than going straight to the TV? Am I wasting my time trying? I can't tell much if any difference.

2. Is there any difference in how I should set my TV aspect ratio depending on how I run the connections ie. bypassing the AVR or not.
post #1609 of 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellycromwell View Post

OK, My STB has only one set of component video/ analog audio jacks with one optical audio jack. My TV has plenty of inputs but is only a 768P screen. I bought the 3800 party because I hoped it would do a better job scaling the SD TV channels than the TV, we all know how bad that looks, and to "cleanup" the wire jungle a little by going as HDMI as possible.

My questions are:
1. Was I right and does the 3800 upconvert SD TV to an image that is better than going straight to the TV? Am I wasting my time trying? I can't tell much if any difference.

2. Is there any difference in how I should set my TV aspect ratio depending on how I run the connections ie. bypassing the AVR or not.

1. I've been preaching this very same point. With most recent model, decent build quality, brand name tv's, you will be LUCKY to even match the video processing from your AVR, much less better it through your AVR. And it sounds like you have discovered just that through your own comparisons.

2. If going HDMI to your tv you would probably be happiest with THROUGH for aspect ratio within the AVR. Try the different AVR aspect ratios yourself, but I'd bet you'll find THROUGH to be the most pleasing.
post #1610 of 8628
The RX-V3800 will be my first Yamaha that uses digital tone control. I'm curious as to how precise it is. I can make very minute changes with the analog knobs on my RX-V1. I would like to hear opinions from the owners on this.

Thanks.
post #1611 of 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Natural View Post

I was reading from several pages back when you were talking in circles regarding the superiority of receiver vs. player decoding.

i was? well we can see reading for comprehension is still on your to do list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Natural View Post

Either way wasn't really looking for a response from the decoding debater crew; I'm sure you are too busy formulating the next technical response in your digital forum war.

yeah that's it. you just got busted ripping on the same group you are asking help from. smooth move. ...bite the hand that feeds you and all...
post #1612 of 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Natural View Post

Anyone know what would be the best way to upgrade from a v1800 to v3800, my AVR is already out of the 30day return period =(

Maybe others can be more help to you if you post why you want to upgrade. What features are on the 3800 that you desire that are absent on the 1800?
post #1613 of 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by iknown View Post

Just to get into the 24fps capability discussions, The following is from Yamaha web site regarding RX-V3800

"Latest HDMI 1.3a (4 in/1 out) specification supports with Deep Color (30/36 bit) transmission, 120Hz and 24Hz Refresh Rates and Auto Lip-Sync compensation"

Does this mean that it supports 24fps...?

I don't have a Blue-Ray or HD-DVD player to verify whether the 3800 (or 1800) supports the 24fps. Anyone tested?

Great find, iknown, and could be a firmware update, because I believe "24Hz" should mean the same as 24fps. That is refresh rate, making the manual specifications outdated, I suppose.
post #1614 of 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellycromwell View Post

OK, My STB has only one set of component video/ analog audio jacks with one optical audio jack. My TV has plenty of inputs but is only a 768P screen. I bought the 3800 party because I hoped it would do a better job scaling the SD TV channels than the TV, we all know how bad that looks, and to "cleanup" the wire jungle a little by going as HDMI as possible.

My questions are:
1. Was I right and does the 3800 upconvert SD TV to an image that is better than going straight to the TV? Am I wasting my time trying? I can't tell much if any difference.

2. Is there any difference in how I should set my TV aspect ratio depending on how I run the connections ie. bypassing the AVR or not.

Any scaler in your 768p TV is probably older and likely surpassed by the scaler included in a far newer 3800. I say if your TV has an HDMI in, you are better off running all devices into the 3800, and running it out at 720p, which matches your 768p TV best. Try it, you can also undo it.
post #1615 of 8628
Is everyone with a 3800 getting that annoying "thumping" sound from their subwoofers every time it handshakes for a new audio format like during preview/title sections on DVD's, chapter skips, or when changing inputs? Is there a way to stop that? I never heard this before on my older Z1. Thanks.
post #1616 of 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

"... Are your speakers "impure" cause they have crossover's in them? ...

I think this is where your confusion is. Your speaker hardware have a crossover to filter signals to various drivers, but making the receivers do it is a processing step that would no longer send a direct signal from the source (e.g. CD Player) to the speaker (where it is split to various drivers). I also think you need to learn what an amplifier does, because there are no cross overs (high/low pass filters) on an amplifier. Search for the word "crossover" on amplifier reviews such as this, or this. You won't find it because amplifiers are inherently "Pure Direct".

My solution for you is to do what Erik does (see a few pages ago) and run your amp in parallel with your front speakers. It sounds like you don't think your front speakers should stand alone anyway, so you might as well run speaker cable to the sub's speaker terminals, and adjust the cross over on the back.

Simply put, the Pure Direct setting lets your speakers speak for themselves without the receiver interfering. You may arrange the speakers anyway you want.

I hope this helps clear up some misconceptions of what an amplifier/"Pure Direct" does.
post #1617 of 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dealdoc View Post

Does anyone know if the YPAO mics are different for the various models of Yamaha receivers? I have an 1800 and my son used my mic for a computer mic one evening. I am wondering if this could damage this since it was designed to pick up the frequencies for the YPAO. I have another one that shipped with my HTR receiver. Where can you order a new one? Any input would be appreciated.

Anyone with information on this? I was hoping someone would know the answer. Thanks
post #1618 of 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmesch View Post

I am very uncertain the latter statement is true (that the 3800 supports 24fps) and my 3800 arrived yesterday, is still in box, and may get returned over this.

1080p @ 24fps is also called 1080p @ 24Hz. The 3800's specification says its output (Refresh Rate) is 59.94(60)/50 Hz, aka 1080p @ 60fps.

Would someone like to explain the 24/60fps difference? I assumed that if a processor can handle 60fps it could handle them at 24. It's not interlacing or doing any nonsense like that, right? This is obviously a very naive approach to the technicalities of 24 vs 60 fps.
post #1619 of 8628
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVchemE View Post

Would someone like to explain the 24/60fps difference? I assumed that if a processor can handle 60fps it could handle them at 24. It's not interlacing or doing any nonsense like that, right? This is obviously a very naive approach to the technicalities of 24 vs 60 fps.


24Hz or 24fps is 24 frames per second, what movies are shot at. 1080i is 60Hz or 60fps and must do a 3:2 pull down of 24 to interlace 30 frames x 2 across the screen (what NTSC and HDTV is shot at). 1080p was originally 60Hz also with HDMI 1.1, and 1.2, but 1.3 added 24Hz for no 3:2 conversion needed, fully eliminating judder. Some TVs, notably the Kuro Pio's have 24Hz HDMI inputs, and some other brands' newer ones (e.g., Toshiba) do too. All older 1080p sets with 1.1 or 1.2 HDMI do the 3:2 pulldown, while 24Hz TVs do not.

Clear?
post #1620 of 8628
[quote=toby10;12885804]1. I've been preaching this very same point. With most recent model, decent build quality, brand name tv's, you will be LUCKY to even match the video processing from your AVR, much less better it through your AVR. And it sounds like you have discovered just that through your own comparisons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmesch View Post

Any scaler in your 768p TV is probably older and likely surpassed by the scaler included in a far newer 3800. I say if your TV has an HDMI in, you are better off running all devices into the 3800, and running it out at 720p, which matches your 768p TV best. Try it, you can also undo it.

Thanks for the input....Guess my comparisons will continue for a while, just thought there might be a shortcut, but you can't beat finding what works best for you, huh?

Anyway, so far, I like the picture equally well either way, so I'm leaning towards running the video through the AVR. I wish I had a splitter for the component video so I could do a more scientific A/B comparison.

The sound on an HBOHD movie with with the optical cable is great and I'm enjoying toying around with the different effects, but the straight DD seems just fine.

Thanks again.
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