Official Sony KDS-XXA3000 OWNERS THREAD! - Page 51

Suggest you go back and read the rules of this Forum - Establishing a Member name for the purpose of insulting those of us that call Michigan our home or have affiliation with the Universities here is rather tasteless and immature - how old are you six? Reported to the Moderator!

Your taking the Low Road out of the Gate!

It's OK if we just think that way though right?

Does anyone make some sort of mount that rests on top of these types of TV's? I need somewhere to put my center speaker....

hmmm anyone know why this is happening?

Yes someone does, and they aren't hard to find. But, unless your center channel speaker is very very light-weight, there is the risk that you will cause your TV's case to sag. That in turn will move the main mirror and the screen. Neither outcome is a good idea.

Sounds like I should explore a wall mount option in that case

For the 60" owners:

I'd like to revisit the vertical viewing height again. Sorry!
I've been reading this forum for a couple of weeks and I seem to recall a suggestion that a 60A3000 stand should be between 17 and 22 inches. Yes? I know the recommended Sony stand is 17".

Problem is, my wife doesn't like the Sony stand because it has no "back" to it, so you would see the wall behind it. I kinda think this is actually a good point myself. We were planning on purchasing a wood entertainment center for it to sit on - center stand, side towers and the bridge on top. I've searched high and low including all of "racks and stands dot com", and there are VERY few options that fall within that 17 to 22 inch height requirement.

So for the sake of clarity (and sanity) could the 60 inch owners weigh in on this one more time please? How tall is your stand and are you satisfied with it? Is the "sweet spot" SO sweet that a 25" stand would be a show stopper?

Thanks for your input!

Yes, build a shelf. $12 in parts from the hardware store, a level, a screwdriver and a half-hour of your time.. bam. You can also put other nice things up there, your wife/S.O. may even enjoy decorating it.

Thanks. When you watched pirates, how did you have motion enhancer, naturalizer, and cinemotion set?

Is anyone else using a PS3? I wonder if this is the problem, although the TV does indicate it's receiving 24fps, maybe the PS3 is doing something funny with it.

Omnimount CH118 or something. 19" wide metal shelf with holes and to legs that prop onto the back of the TV. My Center speaker is 20lb so I dismissed this fairly quickly. It is really made for a light component like a DVD player.

motion naturalizer should be turned off for 24p footage, if it is set to 1 or 2 there will be flicker. the motion enhancer can stay on standard.

I'm borrowing a stand right now while I build or buy. Current height is 24" TV is the 60". Viewing distance is 12 feet. No problem at all. In fact, I originally was going to build lower and now that I see that it is not an issue will probably end up at about 23" so I can put center speaker and electronics below. Even sitting on the floor at 8 feet is good. Not until I get up close and low do I notice significant degradation. Same with the horizontal viewing angles.

Bottomline: At 12 foot viewing distance, the sweet spot is basically 10 foot wide and 4 foot high (Biased some on the low side for the height). It's not like your listening to Acustat One+One's or something with a 12" lateral sweet spot (God, I'm old)! And if you have to put it up too high, tilt it forward a couple degrees.

Great reply and info, thanks dwswager.
Perfect, since from my eye to the TV will be exactly 12 feet as well.
Thanks very much! That opens up a few more options.

With the TV running through to the HDMI port, go into Nvidia control panel. Make sure the HMDI connection is 1080p/60 or 1080p/24. Delete the monitor that is running through vga. Apply the settings. Disconnect the DVI/VGA cable. Reboot. You should see the whole boot process through the TV (HDMI) port. If not, it is an issue with the Video Card/Drivers. I'm running Forceware beta 163.44. I have my 8600GT (Gigabyte) card hooked up this way and that is exactly how I got it to work. Started with VGA and then added the second monitor through HDMI and then deleted the VGA monitor. Works flawlessly.

I set the Motion Enhancer to 'standard', you can set it to 'high' but it's too smooth for me. It FEELS like on 'standard', the set is actually doing a 3:3 on the 24p source; and on 'high', it is doing a 5:5 (just a guess though based on how the image looks) :P. I set Motion Naturalizer to off for all inputs, I see flicker in all my sources. I've left Cinemotion to 'auto1', but I don't think it has an effect on 24p sources since it does not need to do an IVTC.

I will try this tonite and report back. Thanks!

Sorry if my name offended you. It was not meant as an attack, it is just the only username I could come up with. I just don't like anything about Michigan.

I just bought a 55" A3000 I will be getting it thursday.

I currently have my stand on a spare coffee table, until I find one I like. It sits at 21" tall and seems to be just perfect for me. But, I'm 6'3" so it's possible I just sit higher than many. I've stood up and squated down as well to check the vertical angle and you have to move quite a bit to see a difference in my opinion.

I ordered this one because it matches our furniture well:

http://www.bushfurniture.com/bushind...d18=TV&id19=60

I have a question, on my PS3 and 60", how can I tell if it's in 24fps?

My tv last night watching "The Prestige" said 48khz.

What exactly shows me if it's in 24fps?

is there a setting on the ps3 I need to have? I don't currently have a HDMI v1.3 cable hooked up, could this be the problem?

thanks!

EDIT: ******NEVER MIND, I figured it out.

I purchased the BDI Avion 8527 along with my 60". The stand is 22.5" high. I sit about 10 feet back from the screen. I find the height to be fine, I mean it could be maybe an inch or two lower, but its the best looking most functional stand of its type I could find. The craftsmanship is very good. At this point I am more pleased with the stand than with the TV, heh.

He he. That's good to know. I will be ordering the StudioTech U-22T (in cherry) which is the same height as yours, and I'll we'll be sitting 10' back as well. I'm 6'4", but have little ones in the family. And also like you, this stand is more important than the TV. My wife told me so. She wanted something to hide all the components and get rid of our separate "open" audio rack. ie. The dust collector.

-Robert

I have used 2 methods to remove these in the past. First method is to gently rap your knuckle on the spot. Obviously being careful not to do it too hard. That method has worked a couple of times. Second was to remove the screen. I removed mine not to clean it , but out of curiousity to see what it looked like in there. It is true that you must be very careful not to introduce more dust before you put the screen back on or you will have morespots than you started with.

Thanks.

I've tried it on standard, not on high.

I'm afraid I might have a problem with my TV, or maybe I'm just very sensitive. I'd love to see another 24fps set to see just how smooth it should be.

Is it smooth enough that you could read a sign in the background during a pan?

The other weird thing is I'd think I'd see some difference, but when toggling back and forth from 60 to 24 is looks exactly the same.

Maybe I'll try a different HDMI input.

So when you say you did not see ANY judder on LOTR, does that mean you saw SOME on pirates?

Maybe I just want it to be too perfect.

What are you expecting to see? I am wondering if your understanding/expectation of 24fps and smoothness/judder are correct.

Just a few points:

You can be watching a perfect 24fps film (Forget video) and still not read a sign if you pause it. Many times the source material has motion blur due to the shutter speed on the camera. They need a longer exposure for the light level and are not running at 1/1000 second or higher shutter speeds. Further, the items you may be looking at may not be in focus, depending on the depth of field of the shot. Many scenes use a tight depth of field to make the main subject "pop". For example, in Apocalypto on my PS3 at 24fps on my A3000 there are scenes where the pans in the jungle show motion blur buts its not display motion blur, it is source motion blur. Not like the motion blur from say a LCD with slow response time.

Further, if you are expecting all sources to be completely smooth on fast pans that is not necessarily realistic. Depending on how fast the pan is, you may still experience the feeling of seeing seperate images, even at a true 24fps. Judder is different than general frame rate issues. Judder is due to the 3:2 pulldown and the fact half the frames are shown 3 times and the other half 2 times, resulting in an unequal display time for each frame making the existing natural individual shots be more noticable as the time between each transition is not the same. So its like "judder" (3:2 pulldown) vs. "stutter" (normal which I am not sure if there is a real name for it). The stutter is was the 120hz motion flow tries to make less noticable with interpolating an intermediate frame and I don't think anyone has seen a perfect implementation of this where they would leave it on all the time. I don't know if there will ever be a perfect version as they all have to create a intermediate frame from two other frames.

Obviously, both Judder and "Stutter" are more noticable on larger screens such as the 60", especially if you are close.

When watching Apocalpyto at 24fps I am much happier with the 24fps then anything my old CRT did. However, I still see "Stutter" on fast pan scenes and I don't have any of the motion enhancers on, and I think this is normal and is the best the source material can offer.

Basically 24fps display capabilities allow you to see the movie as it is in source format without the additional processing which creates a different experience. It does not guarentee a perfectly smooth display, it just means its a smooth as the source material.

This is my understanding anyway, others should chime in where my reasoning may be flawed.

Well, firstly, 24 frames per second is not "smooth" by any means. Any motion at this slow framerate will be choppy.

The real problem, however, is when the tv has to introduce "extra" frames. Your eye will notice this... Take this stream of letters as an example of something moving

--AA--
----AA--
------AA--
------AA--
--------AA--


This is an over simplified example, but as you can see the same series of characters was repeated twice, much like the tv adds an extra frame. With true 24 fps (made possible by 120hz), you would get this

--AA--
----AA--
------AA--
--------AA--

Each frame will get an equal share of viewing time. This will make the motion more natural..

Like I said in the beginning though, 24 fps is rather choppy to begin with. This is why you will often see "stuttering" in fast camera pans. So, 120hz isn't going to help compensate for frames that were never there.. it will only make sure that the frames that are there all have equal viewing time.

Thanks dwswager and davehancock. I should get my Harmony 880 from Amazon tomorrow. You saved me a lot of anquish, I'm sure. Paid $125 but price went up about $15 the next day. Still a good deal considering BB had a "price break" and is now selling it for $199.

No matter how you try and explain it - the fact is that 24fps is the best your going to achieve and his explanation makes perfect sense. Let's differentiate the film and the camera doing a pan that replicates an imperfect motion effect because of motion of the camera - that is not the display presenting judder or stutter or whatever else we choose to call it - the fact is that not all film or camera techniques are perfect or free of these artifacts and so to expect the display to replicate better than the MASTER is ridiculous. Suppose the Director and the Cameraman didn't give a damn if we could read a background sign during a pan - the panel in many cases such as this is presenting exactly what the Director intended unless he wanted you to read the background during a pan - if the need was there perhaps yes but often he may not give a crap if we can read a background sign and chooses focus of the subject matter instead.

Call it or define it as you want but the display is not going to somehow magically change the original pan if in fact it held within it an so called imperfect pan itself. Camera technique is not perfect and so to expect a display to do better than the original MASTER better isn't logical. Please read my signature block on the importance of 1080p/24. I think many are simply expecting some kind of miracle of getting a result thats better than the Master and suppose the Master is full of motion as it was filmed otherwise members are assuming motion and stutter/judder doesn't exist within the film process which simply makes no sense - we cannot blame everything on the panel technology - the camera and technique can be to blame also and may not be correctable without hindering other aspects.

Just bought a 55" for our new house...

Just read the XBR5 and A3000 manual side by side... and just looking for some confirmation...

The only functional differences seem to be XBR5 has 1 more HDMI, a woofer and DRC 2.5.

Being an old Qualia 006 owner I know the build quality and optics can play a part (the 006 had the best RPTV screen I have yet seen) but these A3000 sets seem like a steal... really excited to get mine.

It was also interesting to note that both manuals had the exact same 24p True Cinema logos on the front, with no other mention in either one..