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Official SVS Ultra 13 thread - Page 336

post #10051 of 10321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post

How do you all feel about a PC-13 Ultra in a 10x14 foot room (can't afford the PB-13 Ultra). The room has a open doorway that is connected to a rather large room. I currently have a 20-39 PCi sub, but recently bought 2x Klipsch RF-7s and a RC-64 and I'd really like to see what these things can do with a really powerful sub. I've never owned or heard a sub better than the 20-39. Audyssey XT32 only requires me to turn the gain up to about 15-20% on the 20-39 PCi, so i'm slightly worried the PC-13 Ultra would be such overkill it wouldn't even be noticeable. I assume all 3 ports blocks and sealed filter would definitely be best in this room.

What do you guys think? Should I pull the trigger? SVS's return policy is zero-risk in the worst case...

There is nothing to lose, just be prepared to keep it. cool.gif
post #10052 of 10321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post

How do you all feel about a PC-13 Ultra in a 10x14 foot room (can't afford the PB-13 Ultra). The room has a open doorway that is connected to a rather large room. I currently have a 20-39 PCi sub, but recently bought 2x Klipsch RF-7s and a RC-64 and I'd really like to see what these things can do with a really powerful sub. I've never owned or heard a sub better than the 20-39. Audyssey XT32 only requires me to turn the gain up to about 15-20% on the 20-39 PCi, so i'm slightly worried the PC-13 Ultra would be such overkill it wouldn't even be noticeable. I assume all 3 ports blocks and sealed filter would definitely be best in this room.

What do you guys think? Should I pull the trigger? SVS's return policy is zero-risk in the worst case...

No such thing as overkill when it comes to bass. You can always turn it down.

I say go for it. Like you said, SVS has that return policy. However, with the RF-7's and RC-64, I think you will love the sub. I know I love mine.
post #10053 of 10321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post

How do you all feel about a PC-13 Ultra in a 10x14 foot room (can't afford the PB-13 Ultra). The room has a open doorway that is connected to a rather large room. I currently have a 20-39 PCi sub, but recently bought 2x Klipsch RF-7s and a RC-64 and I'd really like to see what these things can do with a really powerful sub. I've never owned or heard a sub better than the 20-39. Audyssey XT32 only requires me to turn the gain up to about 15-20% on the 20-39 PCi, so i'm slightly worried the PC-13 Ultra would be such overkill it wouldn't even be noticeable. I assume all 3 ports blocks and sealed filter would definitely be best in this room.

What do you guys think? Should I pull the trigger? SVS's return policy is zero-risk in the worst case...

In your size room with room gain you very well might like the sealed mode better?

2-meter ground plane away from reflective structures (quasi-anechoic)
20 Hz Mode: 19-150 Hz +/- 3 dB
16 Hz Mode: 16-150 Hz +/- 3 dB
Sealed Mode: 26-150 Hz +/- 3 dB

post #10054 of 10321
Thanks guys, is there a recommended setting list to use before running Audyssey XT32 with the PC13? This thing has so many settings that are not covered in the Audyssey guide.

This is what i'm assuming:
High pass filter = Disabled
Low pass filter = Disabled
Phase = 0
High pass delay = 0
Room compensation = Disabled
Subwoofer Tune = Depends on room
PEQ1\PEQ2 =Disabled
Edited by Tyrindor - 8/25/13 at 3:37pm
post #10055 of 10321
We consider the 12 Hz tune (i.e., 2 ports plugged) to be under-ported, and therefore it's not supported with a tune setting on the Sledge amp. With that said, the Sealed amp setting employs a 10 Hz 2nd order high pass, and as such will also work fine with two ports plugged.

In a small room exhibiting a lot of room gain, the Sealed mode will probably work best, but the 12 Hz mode (i.e., 2 ports plugged and Sealed menu option) will also work. Either one will complement room gain and will result in flat extension to very deep frequencies.
post #10056 of 10321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

We consider the 12 Hz tune (i.e., 2 ports plugged) to be under-ported, and therefore it's not supported with a tune setting on the Sledge amp. With that said, the Sealed amp setting employs a 10 Hz 2nd order high pass, and as such will also work fine with two ports plugged.

In a small room exhibiting a lot of room gain, the Sealed mode will probably work best, but the 12 Hz mode (i.e., 2 ports plugged and Sealed menu option) will also work. Either one will complement room gain and will result in flat extension to very deep frequencies.

Can I do this with my PC12+?

Thanks
post #10057 of 10321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

Can I do this with my PC12+?

Thanks

Yes, it can be done with any of the variable tune Plus or Ultra models. The 12 Hz tune is under-ported and has considerably less headroom than the 16 Hz tune. Considering the 16 Hz tune is typically flat to 13 Hz in-room, the loss of headroom and increased potential for port chuffing isn't worth the additional few Hz extension. If you do try it - I recommend only in smaller rooms at moderate playback levels.
post #10058 of 10321
In that case I'll just stick with the 16hz tune since my room is pretty small.

Thanks
post #10059 of 10321
I have plans to daisy chain a DIY sub using a Behringer iNuke 3000DSP from a PB13 Ultra w/ Bash amp. The PB13 is connected to a single sub out of an Onkyo 818. Does the XLR output of the PB13 sends enough voltage for the iNuke3000 to work? I have heard many mix feedbacks about the incompatibility of a consumer receiver's sub out to a pro amp.

Do you think the XLR from the PB13 is the way to go than getting a bump box?
Edited by weng2x - 9/16/13 at 8:37pm
post #10060 of 10321
Quote:
Originally Posted by weng2x View Post

I have plans to daisy chain a DIY sub using a Behringer iNuke 3000DSP from a PB13 Ultra w/ Bash amp. The PB13 is connected to a single sub out of an Onkyo 818. Does the XLR output of the PB13 sends enough voltage for the iNuke3000 to work? I have heard many mix feedbacks about the incompatibility of a consumer receiver's sub out to a pro amp.

Do you think the XLR from the PB13 is the way to go than getting a bump box?

The BASH balanced I/O is unity gain. If you connect the 818 directly to the iNuke and it works, it will also work daisy-chained with the PB13U BASH. Be sure to disable the high pass filter on the balanced out.
post #10061 of 10321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

The BASH balanced I/O is unity gain. If you connect the 818 directly to the iNuke and it works, it will also work daisy-chained with the PB13U BASH. Be sure to disable the high pass filter on the balanced out.

If the I/O is a unity gain then better connect the iNuke direct to the 818. But since the iNuke with DSP has HPF down to 20hz only I've changed my plans. I will be using a non-DSP iNuke paired with a Balanced miniDSP for HPF and EQ duties.

Is there anything worth to note when feeding a balanced signal on the BASH amp coming from the miniDSP? Heard that the balanced out of the miniDSP puts out higher voltage compared to the 818's sub out. My concern is maybe the input voltage is too high to cause distortion. With the 818 unbalance connection to the PB13U, the BASH gain is slightly below 9 o'clock with the 818 LFE setting to +2.5 (+3db hotter than Audyssey).
post #10062 of 10321
Quote:
Originally Posted by weng2x View Post

If the I/O is a unity gain then better connect the iNuke direct to the 818. But since the iNuke with DSP has HPF down to 20hz only I've changed my plans. I will be using a non-DSP iNuke paired with a Balanced miniDSP for HPF and EQ duties.

Is there anything worth to note when feeding a balanced signal on the BASH amp coming from the miniDSP? Heard that the balanced out of the miniDSP puts out higher voltage compared to the 818's sub out. My concern is maybe the input voltage is too high to cause distortion. With the 818 unbalance connection to the PB13U, the BASH gain is slightly below 9 o'clock with the 818 LFE setting to +2.5 (+3db hotter than Audyssey).

The BASH XLR line level sensitivity is 170 mV @ 50 Hz. This is the minimum amount of voltage required to drive the amp to full power. The balanced input can accept about 4Vrms before obvious overload/clipping occurs on the input stage. I like to see peaks of 2Vrms or less on the line level inputs and the BASH is very happy at that input voltage.
post #10063 of 10321
Hey guys.... I am currently saving up for my next subwoofer upgrade and the PB-13 Ultra is at the top of my list of candidates. Since I don't have the luxury to audition one in person and for those of you who actually upgraded to the PB-13 Ultra:

How significant of an upgrade the PB-13 Ultra is/was to what you previously had? Not just in sheer SPL, but "sound quality" wise....

For the record, I am upgrading from a Hsu VTF-3 HO. Will the PB-13 Ultra be a significant upgrade?
post #10064 of 10321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis5150 View Post

Hey guys.... I am currently saving up for my next subwoofer upgrade and the PB-13 Ultra is at the top of my list of candidates. Since I don't have the luxury to audition one in person and for those of you who actually upgraded to the PB-13 Ultra:

How significant of an upgrade the PB-13 Ultra is/was to what you previously had? Not just in sheer SPL, but "sound quality" wise....

For the record, I am upgrading from a Hsu VTF-3 HO. Will the PB-13 Ultra be a significant upgrade?

well the 13.5 driver that they use is one of the most stout if not the most stout driver in it's class. I think the magnet alone is something like 55#. with that said I came from an ed a7s-450 which was a acoustic suspension design. aka sealed unit it had a 18" driver. the svs holds it's one against it and i'm very happy with it. I don't want crazy output like seaton/jtr have. I respect my house and it's foundation that it sits on.biggrin.gif you can't go wrong with SVS on so many basis. excellent CS and trial period being just a few.
post #10065 of 10321
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

well the 13.5 driver that they use is one of the most stout if not the most stout driver in it's class. I think the magnet alone is something like 55#. with that said I came from an ed a7s-450 which was a acoustic suspension design. aka sealed unit it had a 18" driver. the svs holds it's one against it and i'm very happy with it. I don't want crazy output like seaton/jtr have. I respect my house and it's foundation that it sits on.biggrin.gif you can't go wrong with SVS on so many basis. excellent CS and trial period being just a few.


Thanks a lot.... coming from you who owned the ed a7s-450 behemoth, than says a lot... And like you, I don't need the insane output the jtr or seaton offer.
post #10066 of 10321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis5150 View Post

Hey guys.... I am currently saving up for my next subwoofer upgrade and the PB-13 Ultra is at the top of my list of candidates. Since I don't have the luxury to audition one in person and for those of you who actually upgraded to the PB-13 Ultra:

How significant of an upgrade the PB-13 Ultra is/was to what you previously had? Not just in sheer SPL, but "sound quality" wise....

For the record, I am upgrading from a Hsu VTF-3 HO. Will the PB-13 Ultra be a significant upgrade?

I have PC 13 Ultra and recently bought the Paradigm Sub 1....My opinion Paradigm is much better..more dynamics, more musical. Also comes with Calibration mic and software which are absolutely great asset! Look at the price and if you can afford it go for it...you won't regret it!
post #10067 of 10321
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamenoff View Post

I have PC 13 Ultra and recently bought the Paradigm Sub 1....My opinion Paradigm is much better..more dynamics, more musical. Also comes with Calibration mic and software which are absolutely great asset! Look at the price and if you can afford it go for it...you won't regret it!

I've seen the price and for $4500 ($5000 for the piano finish...), it better outperform the PC-13 biggrin.gif ... That been said, I would love to experience what that Sub 1 sounds like.
post #10068 of 10321
Quote:
Quote:
I think the magnet alone is something like 55#

Pretty close! The driver weighs 50.5 pounds! I’m thinking of a certain 18” driver I have and it weighs 50 pounds. Many 18”s weigh between 30-40, not a tell all but something to notice.
post #10069 of 10321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis5150 View Post

I've seen the price and for $4500 ($5000 for the piano finish...), it better outperform the PC-13 biggrin.gif ... That been said, I would love to experience what that Sub 1 sounds like.

I got mine for $ 3,600 for piano black...You have to shop around and you will get the right price...You don't get these babies every day!
post #10070 of 10321
Quote:
Originally Posted by kamenoff View Post

I got mine for $ 3,600 for piano black...You have to shop around and you will get the right price...You don't get these babies every day!

"shop around" as he says a half a world away.
post #10071 of 10321
smile.gif...By the way you can get better prices in US...
post #10072 of 10321
Kamenoff, your just bragging. At twice the price when searching, it better be better.
post #10073 of 10321
Guys, I am sorry..I don't want to stir any troubles. I bought my PC-13 Ultra 3 years ago for nearly $ 3,000..and the Sub-1 for $ 3,600...Not much difference considering the difference in the sound quality.
I just noticed that the PC-13 Ultra has dropped the price to $ 2,100 ($ 2,200 for the PB-13- Australian pricing)....I think that for this price SVS are still great subs...
post #10074 of 10321
Well, I normally don't post a question/problem without first searching a 336 page long thread for a similar issue to mine but the "Search This Thread" button doesn't work in current versions of IE10, Chrome, or Firefox. So, my apologies in advance for asking a question about something that has potentially been discussed before. I just don't have the time to read through all 336 pages.

With that said, I read so many of your comments over the past year about how much you guys love your PB13s. So a couple months ago, I bought one. I have a Denon AVR4311CI that I'm told has pretty good bass management in it. I reran Audyssey and I am not pleased. For some reason I've lost a good bit of low end in my room. The rest of my 5.1 setup is as follows: DefTech BP8060ST fronts, CS8080HD center, and SR8080BP for surrounds. I haven't been able to get perfect results from Audyssey with these DefTechs because of what I understand to be the bipolar aspects of the speakers. I've lived with that for a little while until I can get that sorted but I figured adding the PB13 would work better with Audyssey because it is bass only. I have all of my speakers set to small. I have the bass setting to main only (not main plus LFE). The low pass is set to the lowest that the 4311CI will allow: 80hz. I am a little surprised that I can't push that lower but I figured that being a $2,000 receiver when it was new would mean that they had good reason for not allowing it to go lower. I could be wrong, but that is my assumption. I do not have a cable running to the BP8060ST's LFE inputs. When I run Audyssey, I set the level for the sub as it suggests but it barely seems like the sub is even on when I play content. I have bumped the sub signal on the channel level setting on the 4311 and have increased the level on the sub itself and am just not satisfied with the results. It is muddy and doesn't blend well with the rest of the content. And music just isn't right either. I mainly use my system for movies but occasionally I like to listen to some good music. I hear people talk about an explosion coming out of nowhere and surprising them by how much they feel it in their body. I don't have that at all. Are my expectations about this sub incorrect? What in the hell could I be doing wrong?

A little history, just in case it helps with this at all. Previously, I was running two Infinity PS212s approximately in the middle of the room facing inward firing directly at each other. I did this based on what I read and heard from the Floyd Toole information on multi-sub placement as it relates to cancelling out standing waves (or room modes...I can't remember exactly to be honest). Could placement be a factor involved in the response?

Thanks in advance to anyone who could help shed light on this for me. I will probably add this same comment over on the 4311 thread to see if those guys have any suggestions from the AVR side. It's all tied together and I figured there was a good likelihood that one of you guys here has a 4311 (or has had one in the past at least).

Jeremy
post #10075 of 10321
^^^ seems your bass setting should NOT be set to mains only. With speakers set to small all the bass (up to the crossover) and LFE should be going to the sub. Bypass or set the sub filter to as high as it will go.

With the speakers set to small you should be able to set a crossover from 40hz and up for all of your speakers. Something is not correct with your setup.

As for Audessey, as good as it is, sometimes it just will not work for certain combinations of speakers and room. You might need to get a SPL meter and REW software to get things working properly. If you don't want to or can't do that then turn Audessey off and try setting everything up manually by ear or even use your phone and a SPL app, which would be better than nothing.
post #10076 of 10321
If your speakers are set to Small, select the speaker/subwoofer crossover frequency under the advanced/individual crossovers menu. The LPF for LFE should be set to 120 Hz and is separate and independent from the speaker/sub crossover frequency for each channel.
post #10077 of 10321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post

^^^ seems your bass setting should NOT be set to mains only. With speakers set to small all the bass (up to the crossover) and LFE should be going to the sub. Bypass or set the sub filter to as high as it will go.

With the speakers set to small you should be able to set a crossover from 40hz and up for all of your speakers. Something is not correct with your setup.

As for Audessey, as good as it is, sometimes it just will not work for certain combinations of speakers and room. You might need to get a SPL meter and REW software to get things working properly. If you don't want to or can't do that then turn Audessey off and try setting everything up manually by ear or even use your phone and a SPL app, which would be better than nothing.
I was mistaken. I meant to say that it was set to LFE only and not LFE+Main. I also just checked what Ed said about the crossover frequency being under the advanced/individual crossover menu and found that, in fact, it does allow me to take the crossover down to 40hz if I wanted to. Which, to that point, my line of thought was, since my 8060s have good subs in them and can plan low, why not let them handle down to 40hz and let the PB13 handle everything else. Is that a good idea? I'm going to try that out and see if it makes a difference.

I agree about Audyssey and have thought about doing it manually. I have an SPL meter. Albeit, not a very nice one as it is from Radio Shack and only cost me $50 but it should do the trick, right? I'll look into the REW software that you mentioned. My only problem with that is going to be the fan noise from my HTPC. I usually turn off the machine when I want to watch a good movie. It isn't stupidly loud but I'm afraid that it would have a negative effect on my readings. I could try it on my laptop, though. Hmmm...you've got me thinking. Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

If your speakers are set to Small, select the speaker/subwoofer crossover frequency under the advanced/individual crossovers menu. The LPF for LFE should be set to 120 Hz and is separate and independent from the speaker/sub crossover frequency for each channel.
Thank you. As I said above, I was able to find that I can, in fact, set the crossover settings to as low as 40hz. I guess I never checked there before. Oh well. Right when you thought you knew your system fairly well, someone goes and schools you on something new. smile.gif That's what this forum is for though, right?

I also stated above that I was mistaken in my original post. I had it set to LFE only and not LFE+Main. I'm fairly certain that I read somewhere on this board that the LFE+Main was kind of useless. (Not really useless, per se, just not necessary.) I did, however, find that my LPF for LFE was set at 80hz. I set it to 120hz as you suggested. I'm anxious to see if this all makes a difference.

Thank you both for the help!
post #10078 of 10321
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsampsell View Post

I also just checked what Ed said about the crossover frequency being under the advanced/individual crossover menu and found that, in fact, it does allow me to take the crossover down to 40hz if I wanted to. Which, to that point, my line of thought was, since my 8060s have good subs in them and can plan low, why not let them handle down to 40hz and let the PB13 handle everything else. Is that a good idea? I'm going to try that out and see if it makes a difference.

You probably don't want to set your crossover point that low. Generally you want to have some overlap between your speakers and sub. Very few speakers produce very high output in the lowest frequencies. Just because a speaker is rated down to 25 or 30 Hz doesn't mean it can put out much at those very lowest levels. Most speakers start rolling off quite significantly in their lowest octave. I have main speakers that are rated with a + or - 3db point in the upper 20s. I set my crossover to 60 Hz which allows roughly an octave of overlap between the mains and the subs. This works well for me.
post #10079 of 10321
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzGuyy View Post

You probably don't want to set your crossover point that low. Generally you want to have some overlap between your speakers and sub. Very few speakers produce very high output in the lowest frequencies. Just because a speaker is rated down to 25 or 30 Hz doesn't mean it can put out much at those very lowest levels. Most speakers start rolling off quite significantly in their lowest octave. I have main speakers that are rated with a + or - 3db point in the upper 20s. I set my crossover to 60 Hz which allows roughly an octave of overlap between the mains and the subs. This works well for me.

Ya, I have recently upgraded my fronts and center to the Ascend Acoustic Towers and Horizon Center. They are quite capable of low range and of course the Audyssey XT32 put the crossover to 40hz....but I am thinking I will change that to something like the 60hz you mentioned too. My Ultra 13 in nearly 5 years old now and still seems like new smile.gif.
post #10080 of 10321
I just got done spending no less than 7 hours tweaking my two new PC13 Ultras in a 10x14ft foot room. Mode, settings, placement, and a perfect Audyssey XT32 calibration makes the difference between these subs being very lacking or absolutely breathtaking. I messed with the modes for good two hours, and ended up going sealed mode due to the massive amount of headroom I have. I can't remember Audyssey XT32 ever making such a big difference after calibration either, it's night and day difference. I spent another 2 good hours finding the perfect mic positions for my room that produced the best results.

For anyone wondering... I was previously running a single 20-39 PCI, and upgraded to a single PC13 Ultra. I was not happy with the single PC13 Ultra performance, due to my room acoustics, so I connected up my old 20-39 PCI to test dual subs. It makes a huge difference, I would say its a larger difference in my room than going from no sub to 1 sub. Ultimately, I decided I wanted my subs to match so I bought another PC13 Ultra. Even in this room there is a very noticeable difference between running the Ultra and 20-39 versus 2 Ultras. These subs are incredible.

~$3000 in subs, about a years worth of saving on my income. NO REGRETS! I cannot recommend dual subs enough if your receiver supports EQing them seperately (was not impressed when I ran them in stereo mode). The bass fills the room more evenly, and there's no comparison. The only con I can think of is now all my future receiver upgrades will need to support: 9.2, Audyssey XT32, and 4K. tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsampsell View Post

I was mistaken. I meant to say that it was set to LFE only and not LFE+Main. I also just checked what Ed said about the crossover frequency being under the advanced/individual crossover menu and found that, in fact, it does allow me to take the crossover down to 40hz if I wanted to. Which, to that point, my line of thought was, since my 8060s have good subs in them and can plan low, why not let them handle down to 40hz and let the PB13 handle everything else. Is that a good idea? I'm going to try that out and see if it makes a difference.

I agree about Audyssey and have thought about doing it manually. I have an SPL meter. Albeit, not a very nice one as it is from Radio Shack and only cost me $50 but it should do the trick, right? I'll look into the REW software that you mentioned. My only problem with that is going to be the fan noise from my HTPC. I usually turn off the machine when I want to watch a good movie. It isn't stupidly loud but I'm afraid that it would have a negative effect on my readings. I could try it on my laptop, though. Hmmm...you've got me thinking. Thanks!
Thank you. As I said above, I was able to find that I can, in fact, set the crossover settings to as low as 40hz. I guess I never checked there before. Oh well. Right when you thought you knew your system fairly well, someone goes and schools you on something new. smile.gif That's what this forum is for though, right?

I also stated above that I was mistaken in my original post. I had it set to LFE only and not LFE+Main. I'm fairly certain that I read somewhere on this board that the LFE+Main was kind of useless. (Not really useless, per se, just not necessary.) I did, however, find that my LPF for LFE was set at 80hz. I set it to 120hz as you suggested. I'm anxious to see if this all makes a difference.

Thank you both for the help!

As long as Audyssey sets your speakers to 80Hz or below I would always recommend the following:
LFE = 120hz
Bass mode = LFE (Not LFE + Mains or whatever it's called on your receiver)
Speaker Size = Everything Small (even on the most expensive speakers out there)
Crossover = 80hz on all speakers

This is the "standard". Everything outside of this comes down to preference, but the lower you set the crossover, the more power required to power your speakers. I'd never drop below 80hz on any speakers unless you have an external amp, and even then i'd personally still do 80hz. The sub is going to handle those low frequencies better than pretty much any speaker out there unless your using a low end sub with high end speakers. You have a PB13, I don't know of any speaker that would produce bass under 80hz better. Let the sub do it's job! tongue.gif
Edited by Tyrindor - 10/9/13 at 3:13pm
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