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Official SVS Ultra 13 thread - Page 265

post #7921 of 10017
9/9/10 at 2:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

I'm rooting for the SVS guys, but they have their work cut out for them. It's a different subwoofer world out there now, three years after they brought out the 13 Ultra. Then, it was the sub to beat. Now, it's still a great sub, but there are many other great subs and ported subs seem to have fallen out of favor. Meanwhile, their new sealed subs don't appear to be a great value compared with the competition. It's tough out there and I hope they know what they are doing.

Agreed. Though I'll add that I still think the PB13 (even with the "old amp") is still the ported sub people strive to beat. The performance they've gleaned out of that box with a 750watt amp is incredible.

But with the likes of the Empire, ULS-15, Rythmiks, Submersives out there for sealed offerings with little independent data out there, just customer comments of "my sub is the best thing since toast bread and don't try to tell me otherwise unless you can prove it", I agree it will be very tough to sell the sealed subs at those price points.

E.g., the SB13 will be some $400 or more than the ULS-15. The ULS-15 will likely come out a tad ahead in terms of output. So you're then talking about "SQ" which is impossible to prove anything on. So with that gone, next is "features". Yes, the driver looks to be significantly better made in the SB13, the amp has DSP and more features (though lacks wireless), and the fit and finish .... well, depends on the person's tastes. That's not an easy sell. But you can be certain they've gleaned as much performance as they could with the amp available....
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post #7922 of 10017
9/9/10 at 3:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Agreed. Though I'll add that I still think the PB13 (even with the "old amp") is still the ported sub people strive to beat. The performance they've gleaned out of that box with a 750watt amp is incredible.

Yes, I think the Ultra is still at the top performance wise. Dual Ultras are very sick IMO, and I can't even imagine what folks like counsil and DM_1010 are experincing SPL wise with 4 Ultras in the mix. With the stack can hit 115 dB on the skidoosh scene uncorrected (c-weighted no MAX output) which is at 25-26 Hz. But I'm in no hurry to change out anything in my sub department. I'll keep them for a long time. I have more SPL than I need from the Ultras, and I really like how they sound. I'm glad the Ultra is still at the top of the SVS line-up.... I still love that driver.
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post #7923 of 10017
9/9/10 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac View Post

personally, i see svs as having lost their way. They are pricing their new subs like the boutique makers (jla, paradigm, upper end velos), but the subs aren't that much better than the entry/low budget/mid budget subs of old.

What have they done? Aesthetically, they have always had nice finishes, so no improvement there. And it looks like they are abandoning the cheaper, but durable, poly finish. They are still just boxes or tubes. So no justification for the huge price increases here.

The drivers have been improved over the years, but these are just small incremental improvements. So no justification for the huge price increases here.

The amp? So now it's a dsp amp instead of analog. How does this make for an improved product? So you can tweak the performance curve through settings instead of component changes/matching. This only helps svs set up the sub during final configuration. Less time to achieve the same results, but they aren't passing on this savings to the consumer. A little more power, but not enough to get a significant output gain. Two peqs instead of one. How many actually used the peq on the bash amps. Most just disabled this. Now you have two disabled peqs. No benefit here. Now you only have one knob and an led display. But they put this on the back instead of up front. How are you going to make adjustments with your sub in place. You have to lean over the sub, because now you have to see the settings. If you do this, you will have to read the display upside down. With the old knobs and switches, at least you could look at the diagram and feel your way around. This is actually a detriment. They didn't include an osd, wireless, pc connection...

So i just don't get it. Where is the gravy to support the increased prices?

+1
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post #7924 of 10017
9/9/10 at 4:51pm
mojo, pbc, croseiv, counsil:
You are all making my point. SVS has/had some very good subs, some even great, at very reasonable prices. I bought my PB12-Plus/2 with dual 12" 12.3 drivers and 900 Watts for $1400 delivered. Now a single PB12-Plus cost this much. The price difference from the NSD to the Plus was just a few hundred $, not it's about 2x. If the SB-16 comes out at the $4k range, that's now big time pricing. So what are people going to actually get for the increased prices? I don't see it.

Maybe it's just that I have sold off my +/2 and my AVR so I don't have an HT setup. I'm starting to exhibit Tweak-like (from Southpark) behavior.
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post #7925 of 10017
9/9/10 at 4:55pm
I think we all agree, though I think the SB16 will be $2600, not $4k...though even at $2600 it's not inexpensive relative to some competition out there.
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post #7926 of 10017
9/9/10 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

I think we all agree, though I think the SB16 will be $2600, not $4k...though even at $2600 it's not inexpensive relative to some competition out there.

That's almost the price I paid for quad Epik Empires!!!
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post #7927 of 10017
9/9/10 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

I think we all agree, though I think the SB16 will be $2600, not $4k...though even at $2600 it's not inexpensive relative to some competition out there.

I sure do want to see that 16 inch driver though. Then I imagine it in a large ported box...with a 1500-2000W amp.
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post #7928 of 10017
9/9/10 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac View Post

mojo, pbc, croseiv, counsil:
You are all making my point. SVS has/had some very good subs, some even great, at very reasonable prices. I bought my PB12-Plus/2 with dual 12" 12.3 drivers and 900 Watts for $1400 delivered. Now a single PB12-Plus cost this much. The price difference from the NSD to the Plus was just a few hundred $, not it's about 2x. If the SB-16 comes out at the $4k range, that's now big time pricing. So what are people going to actually get for the increased prices? I don't see it.

Maybe it's just that I have sold off my +/2 and my AVR so I don't have an HT setup. I'm starting to exhibit Tweak-like (from Southpark) behavior.

Time will tell if SVS is in error, but to me, it looks like they are creating a space for themselves in the global marketplace and ceding a previous space they held to competitors in the US (that may be perception only). If we live in that previous space, there's not much we can do about it. It's all about units sold and margins on those units. I thought they made a poor pricing decision on the last rev of the Plus sub, but, from what I gather, they didn't see a drop off in units sold in that category...an uptick I think. SVS is not getting into SPL racing wars any longer, they are trying to offer real value at each price point with specific criteria. Perhaps few of us forum dwellers will get a chance to appreciate their future TOTL U16 due to perceived value tradeoffs with other options. For everyone of us, there's probably 100 global customers that don't have our choices available. You can't fault SV Sound for going after them.

I'm just riffing here and I might be completely wrong about SV's domestic goals and market expectations, but still, they wouldn't price something higher that didn't cost them more to build (domesticly).
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post #7929 of 10017
9/9/10 at 5:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

Time will tell if SVS is in error, but to me, it looks like they are creating a space for themselves in the global marketplace and ceding a previous space they held to competitors in the US (that may be perception only). If we live in that previous space, there's not much we can do about it. It's all about units sold and margins on those units. I thought they made a poor pricing decision on the last rev of the Plus sub, but, from what I gather, they didn't see a drop off in units sold in that category...an uptick I think. SVS is not getting into SPL racing wars any longer, they are trying to offer real value at each price point with specific criteria. Perhaps few of us forum dwellers will get a chance to appreciate their future TOTL U16 due to perceived value tradeoffs with other options. For everyone of us, there's probably 100 global customers that don't have our choices available. You can't fault SV Sound for going after them.

I'm just riffing here and I might be completely wrong about SV's domestic goals and market expectations, but still, they wouldn't price something higher that didn't cost them more to build (domesticly).

I don't see why they can't have just one bad-ass sub though....PB16-Ultra.
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post #7930 of 10017
9/9/10 at 5:51pm
Well Ron, I didn't want to bring up the globalization topic. It tend to make me uncivil. But you more than likely hit it on the head. This is why I am in favor of regionalization, but not global. If this, as with many other cases, is globalization, why does that always mean manufacturing goes to China and support goes to India. It's companies trying to get around local rules, regulations and restrictions. I know there are other incentives, but this isn't a topic for this forum.

But you are right in that SVS-US is becoming a distribution center for SVS International.
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post #7931 of 10017
9/9/10 at 5:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv View Post

I don't see why they can't have just one bad-ass sub though....PB16-Ultra.

They tried that with the B4. Just couldn't sell enough of them.
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post #7932 of 10017
9/9/10 at 6:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac View Post

They tried that with the B4. Just couldn't sell enough of them.

Granted, that was a four driver sub, the 16 inch driver (which is rumored to be in the works), would be more doable.
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post #7933 of 10017
9/9/10 at 6:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv View Post

Granted, that was a four driver sub, the 16 inch driver (which is rumored to be in the works), would be more doable.

The enclosure for something like a PB16 would have to be significantly larger than a PB13 in order to have a low tune. It would be an impressive sub for sure, but could they sell enough of those megasubs to make it worthwhile in their bottom line? Remember that as the box gets bigger, the weight goes up, and the cost of shipping rises. Out there in the real world, how many subs that are bigger than the PB13 actually get sold? I'd bet the number is pretty tiny even if you add all the brands together.

The question is: Would a PB16 be any better or more practical than a pair of PB13's?
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post #7934 of 10017
9/9/10 at 6:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv View Post

Granted, that was a four driver sub, the 16 inch driver (which is rumored to be in the works), would be more doable.

But it meet your requirement of a 'bad-ass' sub. You know when the U16 hits the streets that Epik will come out with a dual 21 incher.
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post #7935 of 10017
9/9/10 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

The question is: Would a PB16 be any better or more practical than a pair of PB13's?

Not more practical, but more of a trophy. Sometimes a product doesn't have to be absolutely practical, as money can be made from the lower-end products. But from a pure power perspective, a pair of 13 Ultras would get it done too. I was made aware of the power today listening to Bass Connection at -10 dB from reference. I was impressed. Not to sure my neighbors were though.
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post #7936 of 10017
9/9/10 at 6:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac View Post

But it meet your requirement of a 'bad-ass' sub. You know when the U16 hits the streets that Epik will come out with a dual 21 incher.

LOL. Now it's starting to look like Back To The Future.
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post #7937 of 10017
9/9/10 at 9:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

That's almost the price I paid for quad Epik Empires!!!

SVS FTW
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post #7938 of 10017
9/9/10 at 9:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadigmDawg View Post

+3....

The submersive will likely play louder but the Ultra should go lower. Plus you can get an Ultra tomorrow and I think I have been on the Submersive list for over 3 months now.

Are you getting a submersive now to ? Or are you just seeing how long it would take Dawg
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

I bought my Piano Gloss Black Ultras for $1699 each with a 5% discount for purchasing duals (and NO shipping!!!)...

I bought my Textured Black Ultras for $1250 each off a guy up the road. One was only 2 months old and the other was less than a year old (but had it's amp and woofer replaced a month before). Therefore I bought two Ultras with almost 3 yrs warranty left on each!!!

That ends out being $1432 each. Not too bad, even if I do say so myself.

Of course my quad Empires only cost me $2799 for all four with $399 shipping.

That end out being $799.50 each. I think this is the "best bang for your buck" deal right now on subwoofers.

I'd rather have two subs that can do the work of four and look better doing it
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post #7939 of 10017
9/9/10 at 10:52pm
TheFactor, do you work for svs?
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post #7940 of 10017
9/9/10 at 10:56pm
He just gets excited. You get used to it.
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post #7941 of 10017
9/9/10 at 10:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by robber616 View Post

TheFactor, do you work for svs?

No actually I dont robber616 just a happy loyal dedicated SVS owner .
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post #7942 of 10017
9/9/10 at 10:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

He just gets excited. You get used to it.

LOL But yes sir I sure do
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post #7943 of 10017
9/9/10 at 11:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

He just gets excited. You get used to it.

Now I'm picturing TheFactor wearing a white pant suit and bright red lipstick, hawking car insurance. {{{{shivers}}}
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post #7944 of 10017
9/9/10 at 11:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac View Post

Now I'm picturing TheFactor wearing a white pant suit and bright red lipstick, hawking car insurance. {{{{shivers}}}

LMAO Oh please flattery will get you no were On that note good nite gentlemen
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post #7945 of 10017
9/10/10 at 7:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFactor View Post

Are you getting a submersive now to ? Or are you just seeing how long it would take Dawg


I'd rather have two subs that can do the work of four and look better doing it

Naw man but I ordered one before I got the Ultras and they still aren't shipping. I would be very upset had I waited it out.
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post #7946 of 10017
9/10/10 at 8:12am
Then are these subs really in competition with SVS if you can't get them? If they are always out of stock or back ordered, with a 4 plus month wait?

I am personally amazed at how quickly customer loyalty seems to wain these days? SVS has worked very hard to earn their solid reputation, have they not! They have also produced some of the best Subs ever made in this price range. They may be singularly responsible for breaking open the High end Sub market in the low to mid end price range. This accomplishment has benefited us all in various ways. Their existing products work without flaw or failure and their Customer Service after the sale is legendary. Are we jumping to conclusions here? I say we might owe it to them to sit back and take more of a wait and see attitude. Let their new Subs/products talk for themselves. Is a good company not permitted to raise their prices a little bit over several years? The Cost of Business goes up every year. Salaries, Insurance, raw materials, shipping, overhead, ect...

It appearers to me that SVS wishes to go after the Big Boys in the Higher End Sub/Speaker market. SVS's major customer market is on line sales. Most folks on line, in my experience are major Upgradeaholichs...SVS would be remiss to ignore addressing that market. I say good luck SVS, go kick some ass and make us some really nice Subs we can upgrade to

Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadigmDawg View Post

Naw man but I ordered one before I got the Ultras and they still aren't shipping. I would be very upset had I waited it out.
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post #7947 of 10017
9/10/10 at 9:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac View Post

mojo, pbc, croseiv, counsil:
You are all making my point. SVS has/had some very good subs, some even great, at very reasonable prices. I bought my PB12-Plus/2 with dual 12" 12.3 drivers and 900 Watts for $1400 delivered. Now a single PB12-Plus cost this much. The price difference from the NSD to the Plus was just a few hundred $, not it's about 2x.

Very true, I had dual 20-39CS+'s that I think were less than price I just paid for a single PB12-Plus. After reading that the new amps really won't add all that much to the PB12-Plus, I am glad I got one with the Bash amp, the 5% customer loyalty discount also helped keep the price just a hair under $1200. I know everything goes, I just think it would be nice if they had a more affordable entry sub.
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post #7948 of 10017
9/10/10 at 9:50am
Hello
is a pb13 better than a sunfire hrs12?
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post #7949 of 10017
9/10/10 at 10:54am
Compared to top shelf offerings from Paradigm,JL,Velodyne,Wilson Audio,to name a few,SVS is a steal!! I've owned Paradigm and Velodyne subs and now have 2 PC Ultras. I don't think I'll be looking anywhere else anymore.
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post #7950 of 10017
9/10/10 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan View Post

Very true, I had dual 20-39CS+'s that I think were less than price I just paid for a single PB12-Plus. After reading that the new amps really won't add all that much to the PB12-Plus, I am glad I got one with the Bash amp, the 5% customer loyalty discount also helped keep the price just a hair under $1200. I know everything goes, I just think it would be nice if they had a more affordable entry sub.

I'm pretty sure the entry level SVS subs are the PB 10/12 NSD subs which can be had for considerably less than either the plus or ultra.
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