or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Video Processors › New DVDO iScan VP50PRO
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

New DVDO iScan VP50PRO - Page 191

post #5701 of 5883
Quote:
Originally Posted by cat6man View Post

wow, i wasn't even trying to be metaphysical about this.

on their website, the option to trade the vp50pro for the duo
is referred to as 'upgrade', so i wasn't intending to imply anything about features/functionality or the meaning of life, the universe and everything

But you were right about not missing the serial/usb update feature! You will be shocked how easy it is to update the firmware in the Duo! No serial port (and long process) required anymore thank goodness.... SJ
post #5702 of 5883
I don't know if anyone else noticed this or not, but when you get to their so called "upgrade" offer on the VP50Pro for a Duo. There is also a pop-up that says what their possible firmware plans are for the VP50Pro.


"We are currently offering iScan VP50PRO owners in the U.S. the option to trade a working iScan VP50PRO for a new iScan Duo. As a result of this offer, and the recent addition of the CMS feature to the iScan Duo, we have received many inquiries about our plans for the future of the iScan VP50PRO. As a rule, we don’t make development plans public, but we want to provide some guidance for customers who are considering trading their iScan VP50PRO for an iScan Duo.

Regarding the iScan VP50PRO, we will release new firmware in the future to fix bugs and improve compatibility. However we will not add CMS to the iScan VP50PRO.

The iScan VP50PRO is an older design that implements processing functions using FPGAs (Field Programmable Gate Arrays). These devices are programmable but they are a finite resource. The FPGA’s capacity constraints limit our ability to support additional features.

If you are considering this offer, please be advised that the offer will remain in effect for a limited time."





Now, I'm not sure how much faith I'd put in it really getting any such firmware fixes. And my gut feeling is, that it will be just another in a long line of broken promises. But if they do indeed at least fix the bugs in the VP50Pro. Then I certainly don't see this "upgrade" of a swap of VP50Pro for a Duo, as being anywhere near being that great of a offer. Because a bug free VP50Pro would be very nice, and that would make a LOT of people very happy! Yeah I know a lot of people hoped for also getting CMS, well CMS was pretty much always nothing more than just a dream.

As for their warning that this "upgrade" offer, is only a limited time offer, even in that case I will still decline it. Because if nothing else, their past actions on support has told us time and time again. That once they decide to replace the DUO with something else, then the support for that also will drop like a rock in cement overshoes that's been dumped in Lake Michigan.


Sorry Anchor Bay, but with this utter BS way of supporting your past flagship products and past customers, you also lost me as a long time customer! You will get no more from me, not even if it's a no charge swap like this joke of a upgrade offer is. Swapping a $3500.00 product for a $1300.00 product, is a screw over!
post #5703 of 5883
When I "upgraded" , they also indicated that if I wanted CMS that I should go for the Duo. They only indicated that if I required an analog output, that I should keep my VP50Pro... SJ
post #5704 of 5883
Are these still the recommended settings with a Oppo 83?

Quote:
do not send the VP50pro anything but source direct from the Oppo, try this:

source direct output
1080p/24 enabled
DVD 1080p/24 conversion disabled
HDMI colorspace 4:2:2
CUE disabled
deep color disabled
all picture controls on 0/center(contrast and brightness is all you get on source direct anyway)

play 480i DVD and setup VP50pro input controls, play 1080p/24 Blu-Ray and setup VP50 input controls, play 1080i Blu-Ray and setup VP50pro input controls

for 480i DVD use on VP50pro:

MNR = low
detail = +4
edge = -6
cue = auto

for 1080i/1080p/24 use on VP50pro whatever you need except disable CUE(it only works for SD material) and put detail on +1

enjoy!!

-Gary

Thanks
post #5705 of 5883
yep they are IMHO

the 83 is the best BD image out there in source direct 4:2:2 mode

-Gary
post #5706 of 5883
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Are these still the recommended settings with a Oppo 83?

Thanks

OPPO recommends setting "HDMI Deep Color" to 36 bits, regardless of whether your display is Deep Color compatible or not. Apparently, it benefits the player's video decoding to do this because it minimizes rounding errors. Or something. I've tried it both ways (at 36-bit and Off), and not noticed any visible difference. I leave it at 36-bit per their recommendation. Doesn't seem to hurt anything.

If you encounter any discs with bad color banding artifacts, you should change this to 30-bit Dithered, which will reduce them. You shouldn't leave that on except on discs where you need it, however.

Gary's recommendations for MNR, Detail Enhancement, and Edge Enhancement in the VP50Pro are his own preference. I leave all that junk off.

The rest of the settings sound right to me.
post #5707 of 5883
Thanks Josh and Gary
post #5708 of 5883
yep just my picks for best 480i SD image with those settings, you can play with those yourself and see what you like, I have for many many hours and that is what I came out with

-Gary
post #5709 of 5883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

yep just my picks for best 480i SD image with those settings, you can play with those yourself and see what you like, I have for many many hours and that is what I came out with

-Gary

One more thing.... Are you outputting 4:2:2 from the Pro? I remember Spears saying tha was a bad idea. VP wasnt doing something right in that area.
post #5710 of 5883
No Stacey Spears pointed out that for the Contrast setting on the Vp50/Pro that it
should be set to -1(input side)..

Concerning 4:2:2
If the Source Component outputs 4:2:2(10bit) then the VP50/pro can/does process it correctly and is the optimum Color space setting as the Pro will allow 10bit processing but only when input/output YcBcR 4:2:2..

If the Source component does'nt output YcBcR 4:2:2 then the VP50/ pro should not be set(forced) to 4:2:2 rather the native input of the source component and output at the native color space of the Display Device such as as RGB or YcBcR 4:4:4 ..

Here is the Link on the calibration forum of what Stacey said,
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post17948576

Cheers..
post #5711 of 5883
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema mad View Post

No Stacey Spears pointed out that for the Contrast setting on the Vp50/Pro that it
should be set to -1(input side)..

Concerning 4:2:2
If the Source Component outputs 4:2:2(10bit) then the VP50/pro can/does process it correctly and is the optimum Color space setting as the Pro will allow 10bit processing but only when input/output YcBcR 4:2:2..

If the Source component does'nt output YcBcR 4:2:2 then the VP50/ pro should not be set(forced) to 4:2:2 rather the native input of the source component and output at the native color space of the Display Device such as as RGB or YcBcR 4:4:4 ..

Here is the Link on the calibration forum of what Stacey said,
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post17948576

Cheers..

Great info on the contrast. I had read that before but used the output picture adjustment (wonder why that would make a difference???)

Heres Spears original comment on 4:2:2 in this thread:

Quote:


Send either RGB or YCbCr 4:4:4 to the Samsung. 4:2:2 will result in a loss of chroma resolution. I base this on my HD test patterns and looking at all three outputs into the Samsung A800.

If you are using a BenQW10000, then you want to set the output to YCbCr 4:4:4 and force 601. The reason is because the BenQ assumes all inputs are 601. Even when you send RGB in, it converts back to YCbCr for processing and then back to RGB using the wrong color space.

At first it seems like he's talking about a specific display, but then goes on to say:

Quote:


Yes, it is true. No, both should not be forced to 601. The VP50Pro converts to RGB internally and then back to YCbCr, so you end up with proper decoding when you force 601 out.

I have tested the 50Pro with Marantz 11S1, S2, Samsung RPs and the new 800 FP, JVCs, etc... and in all cases 4:4:4 out was superior to 4:2:2.

post 3151 & 3157
post #5712 of 5883
Yes I have seen that post by Stacey before,

His comment has nothing to do with running YcBcR4:2:2 color space in out of the VP50pro it is when performing the 601/709 Gamut twist,
At leased that is the way I read it...

Cheers Shamus..
post #5713 of 5883
Regarding the -1 on contast, I must make that setting for every different resolution I send, correct?
post #5714 of 5883
If you use Profiles you can store the -1 contrast setting attached to each profile
at least that is the way I have done it..

So the VP50pro always applies the -1 contrast setting automaticly without needing to
make the change manually..

Cheers Shamus....
post #5715 of 5883
setting it on the output picture controls accomplishes the same thing

-Gary
post #5716 of 5883
Hi Gaza,
When I asked Stacey specificaly about which side to apply the -1 contrast setting
He replied that he only ever uses the Input side of the VP50pro to make this ajustment..

Now wether it makes any different which side you apply the -1 contrast setting
I dont know ?..

Cheers...
post #5717 of 5883
Quote:


Now wether it makes any different which side you apply the -1 contrast setting
I dont know ?..

no, it doesn't. As Gary says, the output picture settings just add/subtract from the Input picture settings.
post #5718 of 5883
Duo swap expires on Mar 31 according to website.
post #5719 of 5883
The input of the 50Pro should be 4:2:2. This applies to all DVDO and Lumagen products. The reason the video processing (deinterlacing and scalng) is done in 4:2:2. If you send anything else in, it will get converted to 4:2:2. It is possible to roundtrip from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2 to 4:4:4 w/o any loss, but no one is doing it today.

Output is up to the display it is going into. This will be covered in our next article, due in April.

Contrast should be set to -1 in the picture control section of the 50Pro, Edge, and Duo for each source. If you use the clipping pattern on our disc, you can see what happes with it at 0 and -1. Look at the red and blue boxes. This assumes the source coming in is good. The OPPO BDP-83 is perfect in that department.
post #5720 of 5883
Thanks Stacey,

So it sounds like the Duo owners need to take note all so in regards to - 1 Contrast setting..

Cheers...
post #5721 of 5883
Just got off the phone with Lumagen. Traded in the Pro on an XS with SD-SDI option. Should be here mid-week next week, and I have 30 days to send in the Pro. They don't even charge for the $1,500 trade-in discount--they wait 30 days and if the Pro doesn't show up, then they charge. Nice people, very helpful, the technical guy clearly knows what he's doing. Even discounted the SD-SDI option as part of the package. They really want DVDO owners to switch!
post #5722 of 5883
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

It is possible to roundtrip from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2 to 4:4:4 w/o any loss, but no one is doing it today.

Wouldn't you be throwing away half the horizontal chroma resolution during the 4:4:4 to 4:2:2 conversion. How's that data recovered when its inflated back to 4:4:4? Or do you mean that since most material starts at 4:2:0 a 4:4:4 source doesn't really have any extra chroma resolution to be lost anyway?

- Collin
post #5723 of 5883
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk20 View Post

Just got off the phone with Lumagen. Traded in the Pro on an XS with SD-SDI option. Should be here mid-week next week, and I have 30 days to send in the Pro. They don't even charge for the $1,500 trade-in discount--they wait 30 days and if the Pro doesn't show up, then they charge. Nice people, very helpful, the technical guy clearly knows what he's doing. Even discounted the SD-SDI option as part of the package. They really want DVDO owners to switch!

Sounds like you want the Lumagen thread.
post #5724 of 5883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

Sounds like you want the Lumagen thread.

I do now! See ya.
post #5725 of 5883
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

The input of the 50Pro should be 4:2:2. This applies to all DVDO and Lumagen products. The reason the video processing (deinterlacing and scalng) is done in 4:2:2. If you send anything else in, it will get converted to 4:2:2. It is possible to roundtrip from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2 to 4:4:4 w/o any loss, but no one is doing it today.

Output is up to the display it is going into. This will be covered in our next article, due in April.

Contrast should be set to -1 in the picture control section of the 50Pro, Edge, and Duo for each source. If you use the clipping pattern on our disc, you can see what happes with it at 0 and -1. Look at the red and blue boxes. This assumes the source coming in is good. The OPPO BDP-83 is perfect in that department.

Stacey, thanks for your input, it is much appreciated...if you were using a HDMI to RGBHV device like the hdfury or a moome converter that will accept 4:4:4, 4:2:2 or RGB which would you input into it(output from the vp50pro)? these devices are connected to a Runco 1101 9" CRT on my end...so far 4:2:2 out from vp50pro seems best to me

-Gary
post #5726 of 5883
Thanks Stacey...
Just to confirm, 4:2:2 is ideal and Ive misunderstood post #5711? -1 contrast must be done on the input and not the output picture controls?
post #5727 of 5883
input and output are one and the same for sure, they interact with each other

-Gary
post #5728 of 5883
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema mad View Post

Thanks Stacey,

So it sounds like the Duo owners need to take note all so in regards to - 1 Contrast setting..

Cheers...

that will be me tomorrow (scheduled delivery date).

does anyone have any feel for mapping other common settings from the vp50pro
to the duo? at some point i'll deal with another calibration (it's been about 2 years now) but if the signal processing algorithms and internal signal levels are the same, i'd expect the settings to be roughly similar (i'm not doing anything
custom)
post #5729 of 5883
contemplating the need for a CMS I decided to check my system out last night once again and see how my primaries and secondaries lined up, I hadn't checked them in about 18 months and forgot where I stood, look at the stock colors of my Runco 1101 CRT projector, Runco added color filtered c-elements to the green and red tubes and they got her right, this is amazing!!!

so I obviously don't need a CMS setup and while I am happy with the VP50pro performance I am still entertaining a a Lumagen XS, I want a parametric gamma/greyscale setup very bad, so I am also looking at the videoEQ

ABT can add gamma/greyscale to the VP50pro, it can be done, and I wish it would happen, this would benefit more users than a CMS system IMHO

-Gary
LL
post #5730 of 5883
Quote:


Wouldn't you be throwing away half the horizontal chroma resolution during the 4:4:4 to 4:2:2 conversion.

If you had a true 4:4:4 source, yes. None of the sources we watch are true 4:4:4. They are all coming from 4:2:0. In this case, you can round trip from 4:4:4 to 4:2:2 and back to 4:4:0 with no loss.

Quote:


Just to confirm, 4:2:2 is ideal and Ive misunderstood post #5711? -1 contrast must be done on the input and not the output picture controls?

I have never tried it on the output, just the input, so I don't know.

Quote:


...if you were using a HDMI to RGBHV device like the hdfury or a moome converter that will accept 4:4:4, 4:2:2 or RGB which would you input into it

You would need to test it following the instructions in our upcoming article. Are you outputting RGB or analog component?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Video Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Video Processors › New DVDO iScan VP50PRO