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Samsung Service Menu Calibration Guide - Page 2

post #31 of 123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nopain00 View Post

There's definitely something going on with the color calibration between going in the SM and the UM. What's even more strange is that the first time I calibrated with the SM and got my CIE triangle perfect, when I went into the UM and checked it again, it was off--not as far as it was uncalibrated, but somewhere in between.

Then when I went back into the SM, even though my settings (the numbers I input) were still the same as when I calibrated it, the CIE triangle I read with primaries and secondaries was off again, though my different amounts than when checked during UM. Surprisingly, as I kept at it, going back and forth between SM and UM, I was able to get the triangle almost spot on on both the SM and the UM.

It's as if when changed in the SM, the set doesn't update the output until you exit out completely, go into UM, and then go back in.

I've noticed that, too, with my HL-T calibrations... so at least I know I'm not crazy! There's definitely a few more tweaks to be made than the HL-S, which is a superbly easy TV to calibrate! Some dweeb at Samsung really messed up the service menu for us tweakers...

I wonder if the Service Manual has insight into some of the Service Menus? And what some of the variables do: sensor settings, slopes, etc.?

I think it's a little funny that my "actuator" submenu is misspelled "acturator"....like a bad Asian accent....

Cheers,
Doc
post #32 of 123
Doc,

I don't know if you figured this out yet, but gamma was not grayed out on mine. Are you in the DDP3021 menu, entry 7 down from top? I changed mine to [0] Film. Also, sub color is in the SDP62(PE) menu. What firmware do you have?
By the way I have the service manual and it is zero help for calibration.

Hope this helps.

Alvin
post #33 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

I ran through docring's basic SM calibration. I don't have a probe, so I stopped at the appropriate point.

I was pleased with my brightness/contrast results, however my colors seemed pretty far off. I used blue-filter glasses with the color test pattern on the THX optimizer. I adjusted the subcolor value per docring's directions.

Now my picture looks oversaturated, and there is some pretty substantial blue-push going on. Apart from that, while the overall image looks sharper, I'm noticing a lot more noise in the image than before. Switching to Movie mode from Dynamic resolves all of these problems, but then I've pretty much defeated the service menu adjustments I made, right?

Am I missing a step somewhere?

Thanks.

I don't think you are. If I'm correct, since we are not using a probe, our color temp setting defaults to cool1 and it's not calibrated. So we have to change it manually to warm2 to get the sort of close to correct setting. Am I correct? Also, am I canceling my sm tweaks by doing this?
post #34 of 123
help pls! My lcd is samsung, when i go to service menu i go to calibration at the sub menu and my comp & av calibration became failed insread of success...pls heelp me to solve this problem...tnx to u all!!!
post #35 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by m9610172 View Post

I never calibrated any display before but I found this great guide and another good one "Basic Guide to Color Calibration using a CMS".
So I gave it a try over this long holidays. For the most part the two guides were self explanatory and not very hard to follow even for the newbie(for both calibration and English language) like me.

My setup
TV : Samsung DLP HL-S6188
DVD player : Philips DVP5982 upscaling player connected to HDMI1 input to Samsung TV
Colorimeter : eye-one LT
Software : HCFR
Test Pattern : Pattern provided in "Basic Guide to Color Calibration using a CMS" thread.

I was able to calibrate grayscale with no problem. Delta E is under 4 all across 20% to 100%, color temperature is close to 6500K. And Gamma is between 2.2 to 2.4. And primaries/secondaries are very close to CIE triangle diagram after adjusting x, y, Desired x, Desired y values in CCA.

But I have a problem adjusting color decoder(brightness of each color, large Y values). First of all I couldn't get RedY around 21% of WhiteY by adjusting sub-color function in DNIe. It never reaches that points. And all other Y values(left side) in CCA won't let me adjust each color's brightness. So Red Y is like 15% of WhiteY, GreenY is less than 50% of WhiteY, BlueY is 10% of WhiteY and etc after calibration and. And they won't change by adjusting Y values in CCA. I've tried various contrast (from very dark to very bright) but didn't solve the problem.

A little help on how to adjust these Y values would be greatly appreciated. Or is my TV defect?

Sean.

I have the exact same problem as Sean. Adjusting the SubColor control with CCA ON or OFF has almost zero effect on my RedY output. My WhiteY reading whilst displaying a 100% white window is around 87 (CCA ON) or 90 (CCA OFF). By default, my SubColor control is at 62, around which I've calibrated my grayscale and gamma almost perfectly (under 2 DeltaE from 0-100 IRE).

When I adjust the SubColor control, the most my RedY output changes is maybe by 1 (nit; cd/m²). Why do we have the same problem? How can I be sure I have the color decoder set correctly? Should I just forget it and adjust my primaries and secondaries as per the guide?

I wonder if the build date of the television has any effect on the service menu adjustment ability.

To be clear, I'm calibrating for Rec. 601 with a Panasonic DVD-R32 DVD player connected via component at 480i resolution.
post #36 of 123
My father just got the 61" 750 LED DLP and I'm trying to calibrate it for him. It's taking some trial and error since the menus are different than those given in this thread and some options are missing entirely while others are present that aren't in the guide.

Anyway, one big problem is that I am sending the test patterns from my laptop over VGA. I don't have any HDMI devices to calibrate the HDMI input. The PC input is now getting very close, but watching cable over HDMI still looks off, despite using WB Spread. I'm not sure what to do since I have no HDMI device I can send test patterns over. I was hoping there would be a way to send test patterns to the Comcast DVR over firewire, just as I can take recorded programs off the DVR over firewire, but I haven't been able to find anything.

Anyway, differences I've noticed so far:

- no DNIe options anywhere in service menu
- Sub-Color is in the Sharpness menu for some reason
- Grayscale adjustments are in the WB menu, including Sub-Brightness, Sub-Contrast, and gains and offsets for each color
- the color "D" controls are in the Desaturation menu, and I'm guessing Desaturation must be "ON" for these to be effective?

Also, the user menu options are necessary -- after service menu resets user options, various user options are defaulted to ON including DNIe (in Dynamic mode), edge enhancement, black enhancement, dynamic contrast, etc, and none of these can be set to OFF in the service menu.
post #37 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

My father just got the 61" 750 LED DLP and I'm trying to calibrate it for him. It's taking some trial and error since the menus are different than those given in this thread and some options are missing entirely while others are present that aren't in the guide.

Anyway, one big problem is that I am sending the test patterns from my laptop over VGA. I don't have any HDMI devices to calibrate the HDMI input. The PC input is now getting very close, but watching cable over HDMI still looks off, despite using WB Spread. I'm not sure what to do since I have no HDMI device I can send test patterns over. I was hoping there would be a way to send test patterns to the Comcast DVR over firewire, just as I can take recorded programs off the DVR over firewire, but I haven't been able to find anything.

Anyway, differences I've noticed so far:

- no DNIe options anywhere in service menu
- Sub-Color is in the Sharpness menu for some reason
- Grayscale adjustments are in the WB menu, including Sub-Brightness, Sub-Contrast, and gains and offsets for each color
- the color "D" controls are in the Desaturation menu, and I'm guessing Desaturation must be "ON" for these to be effective?

Also, the user menu options are necessary -- after service menu resets user options, various user options are defaulted to ON including DNIe (in Dynamic mode), edge enhancement, black enhancement, dynamic contrast, etc, and none of these can be set to OFF in the service menu.

Go to CCA menu, turn CCA off
Go to DDP3021 menu measure and record test patterns values
Go to CCA enter measured RGB x,y values
Turn CCA on
CCA menu save
CCA menu spread
Go back to user menu reset all MOVIE values.
Measure grayscale.
Go to WB menu select movie mode adjust values.
Go to user menu reset all MOVIE values.
Measure grayscale
Go to WB select movie mode adjust values.
Keep doing until grayscale is correct.
Go to user menu reset all MOVIE values. I ended with with LED low, GAMMA 0
and 45 FL, WARM2.
Measure gamma, record values
Go to DESATURATION menu
I made Excel spread sheet. Column 1 RGBCMY target values, column 2 measured values, column 3 difference between 1 and 2, column 4 DESATURATION menu WARM2 values, column 5 column 3 plus column 4.
DESATURATION menu enter new WARM2 values, column 5
Go to user menu reset MOVIE values.
Measure GAMMA, record values
Go to DESATURATION menu and repeat process until GAMMA is as correct as possible. I ended up with a blue delta e of one the rest .5 or less.
post #38 of 123
Thanks, Rahull! I'll try those steps tonight. I'm guessing you're using Movie mode as your base because it doesn't have the DNIe and all that junk on?

...one thing I can tell already is that LED on low will be way too dim -- he is not watching in a dark room, but in a well-lit living room. Flipping channels today I thought some content was too dark even with LED on Max.
post #39 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Thanks, Rahull! I'll try those steps tonight. I'm guessing you're using Movie mode as your base because it doesn't have the DNIe and all that junk on?

...one thing I can tell already is that LED on low will be way too dim -- he is not watching in a dark room, but in a well-lit living room. Flipping channels today I thought some content was too dark even with LED on Max.

Most of what I've read recommends a max contrast of around 40 FL. at night. If he is like me I don't watch HD in the daytime so you can jump up the LEDs. At night in a dark room too much light will cause eye strain. I use a 6500 led back light and low LED. When you move from a gamma of -3 (default) to 0 you'll see a big change. Most recommend watching for a couple of weeks to see if OK before making changes away from a 2.2 gamma
post #40 of 123
Just a hint. No need to bounce in and out of the SM for the A650/A750 series of DLPs.
You can take Movie Mode measurements while in the SM. Just make sure to turn expert mode on first. Also seems as if you've misplaced a step. The D targets need to be tweaked before setting grayscale. Once the desired targets are tweaked and primaries/secondaries are aligned on the CIE there will be minimal changes (and in some situations no changes) to be made in the WB menu. CCA needs to be done completely first. This includes setting the xyY values based on readings of the Primary/Secondary patterns in the SM and setting your D Targets (Dxy) for the primaries/secondaries.

Here's a grayscale run for an A650 with adjustments mode soley to CCA. In this particular input NO changes were made in the WB menu.

http://www.digitalvideocalibrations....0Round%202.pdf
post #41 of 123
Now if only there was an LG service menu guide. I swear their freaking service menu options were made by aliens.
post #42 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooper750 View Post

Just a hint. No need to bounce in and out of the SM for the A650/A750 series of DLPs.
You can take Movie Mode measurements while in the SM. Just make sure to turn expert mode on first. Also seems as if you've misplaced a step. The D targets need to be tweaked before setting grayscale. Once the desired targets are tweaked and primaries/secondaries are aligned on the CIE there will be minimal changes (and in some situations no changes) to be made in the WB menu. CCA needs to be done completely first. This includes setting the xyY values based on readings of the Primary/Secondary patterns in the SM and setting your D Targets (Dxy) for the primaries/secondaries.

Here's a grayscale run for an A650 with adjustments mode soley to CCA. In this particular input NO changes were made in the WB menu.

http://www.digitalvideocalibrations....0Round%202.pdf

The service menu for the 750 appears to be different than the 650. The DDP3201 test patterns only display red, green, blue and white. The CCA menu only has x,y for red, green, blue. it does have DW-X DW-Y for the 5 different color temperatures. I didn't know exactly what values to insert so I left them as is. All sRGB x,y values was done in the DESATURATION menu. The SERVICE MANUAL for the 750 has a CINIMA CCA menu it has DWHITE X and Y values for the 5 color temperatures, however under remarks it lists them as adjustments for the target values of RED, GREEN, BLUE, CYAN, MAGENTA (no YELLOW) X,Y for the CCA. I didn't understand so didn't use. Although the default for WARM2 was 313, 329.
post #43 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by armygreen11 View Post

On to color....

So after I do a primaries and secondaries sensor acquisition, I just plug those numbers into the CCA menu, multiplying the Y values by 4 right? And then I go back and divide the whiteY value by the corresponding % for each pri/sec and then change those numbers again? Or do I throw up the color fields and _measure_ the Y values again, and adjust them so that they're correct % of whiteY in HCFR? This step really confused me.

Can someone please answer this question? I'm just as confused as armygreen11 is when it comes to calibrating your primaries and secondaries using HCFR.

I found that step in docrings's guide very confusing. It's the last step I need to complete.
post #44 of 123
I'm still a bit confused between rahull and scooter. Since the 750 service menu has no secondary patterns, should I just use my own test patterns for all of the primaries and secondaries? Do I do the initial measurements with CCA on or off, and do I have CCA on or off for measuring and tweaking grayscale?

Edit: Never mind, figured it out. CCA off for measuring test patterns. Measured numbers go in CCA. CCA back on. Then adjust x,y in Desaturation menu as needed to correct for the difference between measured numbers and desired numbers. Changes do not take effect until you turn Desaturation off and then on again (or, presumably, as soon as you turn it ON if you had it OFF).

My CIE diagram is now dead-on.

On to grayscale...

Once I get it all dialed in, I'll put a guide in the 750 thread just since there are the minor differences between service menus...
post #45 of 123
Do not use your own test patterns. If the SM does not have secondary test patterns then the CCA should not have any input for secondary coordinates.
Take your initial measurements with CCA off. Grayscale measurements should be taken with CCA on. The only way to take Movie Mode measurements in the SM is to have expert mode on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

I'm still a bit confused between rahull and scooter. Since the 750 service menu has no secondary patterns, should I just use my own test patterns for all of the primaries and secondaries? Do I do the initial measurements with CCA on or off, and do I have CCA on or off for measuring and tweaking grayscale? You should notice that your require minimal changes to the WB menu when CCA is tweaked correctly.

Edit: Never mind, figured it out. CCA off for measuring test patterns. Measured numbers go in CCA. CCA back on. Then adjust x,y in Desaturation menu as needed to correct for the difference between measured numbers and desired numbers. Changes do not take effect until you turn Desaturation off and then on again (or, presumably, as soon as you turn it ON if you had it OFF).

My CIE diagram is now dead-on.

On to grayscale...

Once I get it all dialed in, I'll put a guide in the 750 thread just since there are the minor differences between service menus...
post #46 of 123
Do not blindly multiply the Y value you measure by 4. That is incorrect. The Y values in the Samsung SM are represented by nits (cd/m^2). If the software you are using can output nits measurements then simply enter that value into the SM. If the software you are using is outputing ft lamberts (fL), then multiply that number by 3.4262591. That is the correct conversion.

Docrings, you've got great writeups. You may want to update it with the above though.

Also in regard to CCA when measuring color, I would recommend using 75IRE vs 100IRE due to the fact that there may be runout of some sort at 100IRE if your contrast is not set correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckZ View Post

Can someone please answer this question? I'm just as confused as armygreen11 is when it comes to calibrating your primaries and secondaries using HCFR.

I found that step in docrings's guide very confusing. It's the last step I need to complete.
post #47 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

I'm still a bit confused between rahull and scooter. Since the 750 service menu has no secondary patterns, should I just use my own test patterns for all of the primaries and secondaries? Do I do the initial measurements with CCA on or off, and do I have CCA on or off for measuring and tweaking grayscale?

Edit: Never mind, figured it out. CCA off for measuring test patterns. Measured numbers go in CCA. CCA back on. Then adjust x,y in Desaturation menu as needed to correct for the difference between measured numbers and desired numbers. Changes do not take effect until you turn Desaturation off and then on again (or, presumably, as soon as you turn it ON if you had it OFF).

My CIE diagram is now dead-on.

On to grayscale...

Once I get it all dialed in, I'll put a guide in the 750 thread just since there are the minor differences between service menus...

It can get confusing, but my understanding is that after turning off CCA (getting the set back to the primitive status) and measuring the set's test pattern raw values you enter those values in the CCA then turn the CCA on, save and spread. Next proceed to measuring gamma in USER MENU and adjust in DESATURATION. I can't comment on using EXPERT MODE as I never tried it. If it works it would save a lot of time.

EDIT Measure and adjust grayscale before working on gamma.
post #48 of 123
"Also in regard to CCA when measuring color, I would recommend using 75IRE vs 100IRE due to the fact that they be runout of some sort at 100IRE if your contrast is not set correctly."

That is true. The error should show up however as roll off at the top end of the grayscale.
post #49 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooper750 View Post

Do not use your own test patterns. If the SM does not have secondary test patterns then the CCA should not have any input for secondary coordinates.

That's true, it doesn't have secondaries in the CCA menu. I'll try it again this way (using built-in test patterns) and see what difference it makes. As I said, though, using my patterns still ended up with my CIE being dead-on for primaries and secondaries. Although, when I checked grayscale, luminance was good, gamma was good but had a dip around 80%, but RGB was not that great across the scale. Might using the built-in patterns alleviate this? I wouldn't think -- if my colors were spot-on using my patterns -- that how I arrived at it would matter, but I'm willing to try.

Two other things:

1) After tweaking and turning off and going back into regular mode, I ran the patterns through again and everything was off -- colors were no longer spot-on. This was in movie mode, all "extra" features off (dynamic contrast, etc), same color mode I'd been calibrating for, etc. I see from the posts above that this was a problem with the HL-Ts as well; one would think they'd have corrected the problem for the 750s but I guess not.

2) Would gamma 0 in the user menu be the equivalent to whatever I'm seeing in the service menu? In other words, is that the setting that would not throw off the calibration?

A final question: What is the point of plugging in the measured values in the CCA menu? Why not leave those as they are and only adjust the D values in the Desaturation menu until colors are correct? It seems like the only difference would be that the numbers would have to be changed by a larger amount, but otherwise it would be simpler having to deal with only one menu. I'm assuming there is a reason not to do it this way and was just wondering what that reason is.
post #50 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

That's true, it doesn't have secondaries in the CCA menu. I'll try it again this way (using built-in test patterns) and see what difference it makes. As I said, though, using my patterns still ended up with my CIE being dead-on for primaries and secondaries. Although, when I checked grayscale, luminance was good, gamma was good but had a dip around 80%, but RGB was not that great across the scale. Might using the built-in patterns alleviate this? I wouldn't think -- if my colors were spot-on using my patterns -- that how I arrived at it would matter, but I'm willing to try.

Two other things:

1) After tweaking and turning off and going back into regular mode, I ran the patterns through again and everything was off -- colors were no longer spot-on. This was in movie mode, all "extra" features off (dynamic contrast, etc), same color mode I'd been calibrating for, etc. I see from the posts above that this was a problem with the HL-Ts as well; one would think they'd have corrected the problem for the 750s but I guess not.

2) Would gamma 0 in the user menu be the equivalent to whatever I'm seeing in the service menu? In other words, is that the setting that would not throw off the calibration?

A final question: What is the point of plugging in the measured values in the CCA menu? Why not leave those as they are and only adjust the D values in the Desaturation menu until colors are correct? It seems like the only difference would be that the numbers would have to be changed by a larger amount, but otherwise it would be simpler having to deal with only one menu. I'm assuming there is a reason not to do it this way and was just wondering what that reason is.

1. This is why I did all measurements in the USER MENU after changing the default values where necessary.

2. No. Measure grayscale using the different gamma values then continue to use the gamma closest to 2.2 for all further measurements in the USER MENU.

3. The CCA will set the red, green, blue closest to the desired values for the NORMAL, WIDE and sRGB in the COLOR GAMUT of the USER MENU PICTURE OPTIONS all at once. Probably making adjusting the DESATURATION easier (?).
post #51 of 123
Remember, do not take measurements in the SM unless you are in expert mode and have chosen PMode of Movie or Calibration. With expert mode off, the SM settings are in some form of dynamic mode so if you take measurements there and everything looks great while in the SM it does not mean that it will look good outside of SM. Expert mode allows you to also lock down the User-Menu settings and change the verbiage from 'Movie' to 'Calibration'. With expert mode you can set the television to have either Movie Mode where all the User controls are not locked down or you can select Calibration mode where the user controls are locked down. When Expert-Calibration is selected you make adjustments to the User Controls in the SM and lock them down. For those that are not familiar with the nuances of the Sammy's I would say out of the controls you are not familiar with. Expert mode included. You can achieve great results without expert mode. It just makes things a little easier. Just wanted people to be aware of the great features that Samsung has added. It is a calibrators dream. Now if they were to add the ability to adjust color luminance for the individual primaries/secondaries, it would be perfect.
post #52 of 123
Thanks for the tip on Expert mode -- now, finally, the measures stay the same from SM to regular viewing mode when I use the Calibration picture mode.

Please correct this sequence if I'm mistaken:

1) Turn on Expert mode etc
2) Turn off CCA
3) Use built-in test patterns to measure primaries
4) Plug these values into CCA
5) Turn on CCA
6) Use Desaturation menu to adjust x and y for each color until they hit the right measurements.
7) Use DW x and y in CCA menu to adjust white until it hits 313/329?
8) Measure secondaries with your own patterns and use Desat menu to adjust them?
9) Adjust sub contrast and sub brightness in WB menu
10) Adjust sub color in Sharpness menu so that red = 21% ftL of white?
11) Adjust grayscale as needed using gains and offsets in WB menu?

I'm pretty iffy on a lot of that as you can see. I never have any problem getting CIE perfect, but grayscale (luminance, gamma, rgb) is looking rough from the graphs prior to tweaking.
post #53 of 123
I haven't seen the service menus for the 750 so I can't be positive. In the 650 series there is a CCA and a Cinema CCA. Cinema CCA represents the movie mode so if you are making all your adjustments for the D targets in CCA vs Cinema CCA then the grayscale will still be off for movie mode.
post #54 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Thanks for the tip on Expert mode -- now, finally, the measures stay the same from SM to regular viewing mode when I use the Calibration picture mode.

Please correct this sequence if I'm mistaken:

1) Turn on Expert mode etc
2) Turn off CCA
3) Use built-in test patterns to measure primaries
4) Plug these values into CCA
5) Turn on CCA
6) Use Desaturation menu to adjust x and y for each color until they hit the right measurements.
7) Use DW x and y in CCA menu to adjust white until it hits 313/329?
8) Measure secondaries with your own patterns and use Desat menu to adjust them?
9) Adjust sub contrast and sub brightness in WB menu
10) Adjust sub color in Sharpness menu so that red = 21% ftL of white?
11) Adjust grayscale as needed using gains and offsets in WB menu?

I'm pretty iffy on a lot of that as you can see. I never have any problem getting CIE perfect, but grayscale (luminance, gamma, rgb) is looking rough from the graphs prior to tweaking.

I believe the color decoder sits on top of the grayscale so any grayscale adjustments will affect it. I would therefore put grayscale, brightness and contrast between 5 and 6, contrast may also cause color roll off or eye strain if set too high (just my opinion). Don't know about 10.
post #55 of 123
Okay, using the steps I listed above I got colors perfect, luminance pretty much spot-on, rgb right (except a bit of a bump at 50%), and gamma very very good, all without any grayscale tweaks at all. I was psyched and ready to put the sensor back on the shelf for awhile and just enjoy some viewing.

Problem is, going back to viewing mode threw everything off even though I was using the "Calibration" picture mode (Expert Settings "On" in SM). Went back to SM, and all measurements matched what I had just seen in viewing mode -- all bad. Weird example: While calibrating in SM, Expert On, etc, my 100% white was 313/329. Going to regular mode, it was 303/295. Back to SM, 313/295. But if I bumped up the DW_Y one notch, it jumped to 313/340, and then bumping Y back down one notch -- to the original value -- got it to 313/329 again. In other words, simply moving either control and then moving it back to the original position restores BOTH measurements. Same problem had by a few people on page 1 of this thread with the other models.

Turning CCA off and then back on seems to have the same effect as powering down and going back to viewing mode -- measurements are thrown off, but raising a value and then putting it back down puts it back. WB Spread does the same thing, and so does turning Calibration (in the Expert menu) off and then on. It seems there are a lot of "switches" that screw everything up. WB Spread almost seems to be "spreading" FROM somewhere rather than TO the other groups. If I tweak DW such that white measures 313/329, then hit WB Spread, I might now measure 322/360. If I then change DW such that I get anything else, no matter how far off, hitting WB Spread again will bring me right back to 322/360. I don't know where these numbers are coming from, so don't know what to tweak to correct for them.

It's driving me nuts. Earlier the Expert Settings and Calibration mode seemed to keep my tweaks; now that I finally had everything close to perfect, nothing I do sticks.
post #56 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Okay, using the steps I listed above I got colors perfect, luminance pretty much spot-on, rgb right (except a bit of a bump at 50%), and gamma very very good, all without any grayscale tweaks at all. I was psyched and ready to put the sensor back on the shelf for awhile and just enjoy some viewing.

Problem is, going back to viewing mode threw everything off even though I was using the "Calibration" picture mode (Expert Settings "On" in SM). Went back to SM, and all measurements matched what I had just seen in viewing mode -- all bad. Weird example: While calibrating in SM, Expert On, etc, my 100% white was 313/329. Going to regular mode, it was 303/295. Back to SM, 313/295. But if I bumped up the DW_Y one notch, it jumped to 313/340, and then bumping Y back down one notch -- to the original value -- got it to 313/329 again. In other words, simply moving either control and then moving it back to the original position restores BOTH measurements. Same problem had by a few people on page 1 of this thread with the other models.

Turning CCA off and then back on seems to have the same effect as powering down and going back to viewing mode -- measurements are thrown off, but raising a value and then putting it back down puts it back. WB Spread does the same thing, and so does turning Calibration (in the Expert menu) off and then on. It seems there are a lot of "switches" that screw everything up. WB Spread almost seems to be "spreading" FROM somewhere rather than TO the other groups. If I tweak DW such that white measures 313/329, then hit WB Spread, I might now measure 322/360. If I then change DW such that I get anything else, no matter how far off, hitting WB Spread again will bring me right back to 322/360. I don't know where these numbers are coming from, so don't know what to tweak to correct for them.

It's driving me nuts. Earlier the Expert Settings and Calibration mode seemed to keep my tweaks; now that I finally had everything close to perfect, nothing I do sticks.

I found the same thing while working in the WB menu. Just as copying numbers from one set to another using calibration procedures between models may give incorrect results. I found while working in WB that moving all WB values up one and back would cause what you describe and get the set close to USER MENU values. Measuring and adjusting the grayscale in the WB MOVIE MODE from that point will get you close and save a few trips back to the USER MENU for measurements. In the service manual the EXPERT ADJ option reads "Expert control the set by RS-232" in the remarks column indicating either a computer or special equipment connection. I have found other service manual errors so who knows?
post #57 of 123
I *think* I found the reason why the measurements kept changing. I tweak the DW values for Cool1 mode, since that's what the service menu is in (PC input). Once I get it right, I copy the values to the Warm2 mode in the Cinema CCA menu, since that is what I have the Calibration Picture Mode set to in the Expert Settings.

I think that this time I had forgotten to do that; when I then hit WB Spread, for some bizarre reason it applied the (non-tweaked) Warm2 DW values and threw everything off.

Once I copied my Cool1 DW values to Warm2, WB Spread (or powering off and going back into regular viewing mode) no longer messed things up. My grayscale is still badly off -- which is a bit confusing since I had never tweaked any grayscale controls, only colors, which were still spot-on -- but I guess maybe that's a side effect of chasing the ever-changing numbers before I figured out what was going on.

Anyway, I'm going to reset everything to default and start from scratch, and carry my results to the official 750 DLP thread (and stop cluttering up this one ). Thanks to everyone for your help.
post #58 of 123
Sorry, last questions: With CCA off, and using the internal test patterns, shouldn't the measurements I get for the primaries always be the same no matter what adjustments I've made? Isn't that the whole point of turning off the CCA, so that you are getting the raw output?

And how is it that I keep needing to adjust numbers? If I had perfect CIE and I wrote down all the Desat D x and y values, and CCA values haven't changed, why do those numbers no longer work even in the service menu? Each time I try another calibration, my numbers are different, even though each time the CIE diagram is dead-on.
post #59 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard View Post

Sorry, last questions: With CCA off, and using the internal test patterns, shouldn't the measurements I get for the primaries always be the same no matter what adjustments I've made? Isn't that the whole point of turning off the CCA, so that you are getting the raw output?

And how is it that I keep needing to adjust numbers? If I had perfect CIE and I wrote down all the Desat D x and y values, and CCA values haven't changed, why do those numbers no longer work even in the service menu? Each time I try another calibration, my numbers are different, even though each time the CIE diagram is dead-on.

CCA off should give you raw data. While using CALMAN software and a I1 pro if I put the reading on continuous the target jumps all around in and partially out of the target's bulls eye while displaying a color. If you are using a spyder and different software the condition could be worse. The CIE diagram will still display correct but Delta E will very with the changes.
post #60 of 123
Hey all I just picked up this set and am enjoying it very much so far.

I'm following the Greyscale Calibration Guide and have a few quick questions that I've not found specific answers to read through the posts.

Under the "WB" section I see "R_Offset", "R_Gain", etc.

Is "Offset" the same as "LowEnd" and "Gain" the same as "HighEnd"?

Also I remember seeing the first line is "P.Mode = Dynamic". Is this something I need to change? I don't want dynamic anything I believe.


Thanks!
Paul
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