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Samsung Service Menu Calibration Guide - Page 4

post #91 of 123
10/21/08 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by djphatic View Post

Is this accessible via the remote menu's? The A786 is a recent model, a month old if that. I have options for color space via the remote menu's but cannot see anything specific for color management in the service menu.

Are you sure you are in the SM? If so, what are all of the menus available for you there?
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post #92 of 123
10/21/08 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholc2 View Post

Are you sure you are in the SM? If so, what are all of the menus available for you there?

Yes, with the TV switched off I press Info, Menu, Mute, Power On which enters service mode.

I then have the following options:

1 Option Table (Service)

2 WB Adjust
> Calibration
> White Balance
> EPA Standard
> Movie WB

3 Information

4 Advanced Menu
> MTK8226
} Cal. Adjustment
} Cal. Target
} Scart RGB
} TVD/Comb
} IPC/MJC
} Picture Enhance
> Option Block
} FBE3
} FRCM
} FRCM_ADV
} Pdp Logic
} Local Dimm
> SOUND
> YC Delay
> Adjust
> Bus Stop
> Defect Log
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post #93 of 123
10/21/08 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by djphatic View Post

Yes, with the TV switched off I press Info, Menu, Mute, Power On which enters service mode.

I then have the following options:

1 Option Table (Service)

2 WB Adjust
> Calibration
> White Balance
> EPA Standard
> Movie WB

3 Information

4 Advanced Menu
> MTK8226
} Cal. Adjustment
} Cal. Target
} Scart RGB
} TVD/Comb
} IPC/MJC
} Picture Enhance
> Option Block
} FBE3
} FRCM
} FRCM_ADV
} Pdp Logic
} Local Dimm
> SOUND
> YC Delay
> Adjust
> Bus Stop
> Defect Log

Yeah, doesn't appear that your model has color adjustments in the SM. Just grayscale.
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post #94 of 123
12/19/08 at 3:52pm
so has the SM calibration guide for the 750/650 been written yet?
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post #95 of 123
1/10/09 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

so has the SM calibration guide for the 750/650 been written yet?

I too would love to see a calibration guide put together for the 750 LED DLP. There is a LOT of information spread out in several different threads on the topic, but I haven't come across a very detailed, step by step procedure. I've seen many posts where someone will list the steps they've used to calibrate only to see a response in the next post where someone else will correct the original poster and list new steps. Some mention calibrating in the dynamic setting while others use the movie setting. Some describe going in and out of SM many times to adjust and then take readings, while others say it's not necessary. I've seen some mention of using the expert mode, turning CCA on then back off, then back on again, etc etc. Needless to say my head is spinning a bit. If one of you gurus could put something together then I know there are a lot of us that would benefit from it and greatly appreciate it.
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post #96 of 123
1/10/09 at 1:25pm
The Samsung 750 series is not a good display for DIY'ers to learn/practice on. This set can be calibrated to perform very accurately, but only with the right test equipment. i.e spectroradiometer
And yes, there is a very specific way to calibrate these displays that differs from any other type of set.

Venture carefully, or better yet, hire a professional.
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post #97 of 123
1/11/09 at 6:25am
Lee, thanks for the reply and the warning. I'm certainly not an expert, but have done some calibrations in the past with my EyeOne and HCFR on my old television (toshiba CRT RPTV). I just purchased a 67a750 and would like to do the same. After reading info from several different threads I understand the premise behind the 750 calibration... in CCA - measure initial colors, plug those numbers in, plug in the desired values, spread the values. Then adjust grayscale (should be minimal at this point) in WB.

I've seen that several people are having success with these sets with the same equipment I have, and am just looking for a more detailed, all-inclusive guide. THere are several of these guides in the calibration forum for other sets and it would be great to have one for the 750's (could include the 650's too if they aren't much different). I'd be happy to help someone more knowledgeable than I put one together and keep it updated. I just need that more knowledgeable person to help me out.
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post #98 of 123
1/17/09 at 5:20am
And don't forget to put the the set in Expert Mode with PMode set to Movie or Calibration so that you don't have to keep poppin in and out of SM.

Unfortunately I don't really have much time to say sit down and write a guide on how to do these Sammys, but feel free to ask questions. I have posted quite a few tips/tricks regarding the A650s which should apply to the A750s. I haven't done a A750 yet, but have done quite a few A650s.
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post #99 of 123
3/10/09 at 10:42am
Did anyone ever find a way to make the DB Aperture stay closed on the HL61A750?
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post #100 of 123
3/13/09 at 9:44pm
Hi...I am new to these threads and was hoping somone could give me some help. I have a Samsung HL50A650 DLP and i can't figure out how to get the "Y" value adjusted down for Green and Blue. Can someone please tell me how to do this. Everything is close to perfect but that is throwing off my color.

Thank you!

Jon
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post #101 of 123
3/14/09 at 5:34am
There is no luminance controls for the primaries / secondaries.
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post #102 of 123
3/14/09 at 5:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooper750 View Post

There is no luminance controls for the primaries / secondaries.

Thanks Stephen.....is there a way to bring these closer in line on the HL50A650? Red is good but the green and blue are off the charts. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jon
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post #103 of 123
3/17/09 at 7:51am
how does this guide fit the LNXXA650/750 ?
is this guide usable ?
if not, can someone point me at the right direction ?

i went to the SM couple of times but the 4-Advanced Service Menu
is always locked i can't get inside, does anyone know how to get into that menu?
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post #104 of 123
3/22/09 at 4:06am
would anyone please answer my question ?
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post #105 of 123
3/22/09 at 9:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kindi_boy View Post

would anyone please answer my question ?

Did you turn expert mode on in the SM?
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post #106 of 123
3/22/09 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kindi_boy View Post

how does this guide fit the LNXXA650/750 ?
is this guide usable ?
if not, can someone point me at the right direction ?

i went to the SM couple of times but the 4-Advanced Service Menu
is always locked i can't get inside, does anyone know how to get into that menu?

I don't think much in this guide for the Samsung DLP is applicable to the new LCD models. For the LNxxA650/750, the color and grayscale controls are all accessible in the customer menus, without entering the service menu.
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post #107 of 123
3/22/09 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mitchell View Post

I don't think much in this guide for the Samsung DLP is applicable to the new LCD models. For the LNxxA650/750, the color and grayscale controls are all accessible in the customer menus, without entering the service menu.

Bill, does your reply mean/indicate that a professional ISF calibration does not go into the SM at all? That can't really be the case is it? I was considering going a pro ISF cal eventually, but if all they will do is the same as my twiddling.... I can't see paying for that!

They must use the SM for some things.... I would hope, for example, that my problems with red on the CIE gamut chart could be addressed, as well as some of the lower grayscale tracking. Unless I missed something in the subtext.

Mike
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post #108 of 123
3/22/09 at 1:30pm
Quote:


Bill, does your reply mean/indicate that a professional ISF calibration does not go into the SM at all? That can't really be the case is it? I was considering going a pro ISF cal eventually, but if all they will do is the same as my twiddling.... I can't see paying for that!

Using experience and very expensive tools is hardly the same as "twiddling".
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post #109 of 123
3/22/09 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoreiwo View Post

Bill, does your reply mean/indicate that a professional ISF calibration does not go into the SM at all? That can't really be the case is it? I was considering going a pro ISF cal eventually, but if all they will do is the same as my twiddling.... I can't see paying for that!

They must use the SM for some things.... I would hope, for example, that my problems with red on the CIE gamut chart could be addressed, as well as some of the lower grayscale tracking. Unless I missed something in the subtext.

Mike

Mike, the question is a little off the subject of this thread, being the Samsung DLP service menu, but since you ask:

I haven't seen any information yet that indicates any Samsung LCD service menu options that need to be used for a calibration. Helidoc, I believe, mentioned he has a service manual, but has not mentioned using the service menu for anything. The only hint I've seen is a suggestion somewhere that there might be an option that affects how big a change in gamma is made with each tick in the control. (I'm not counting the control of AMP in the service menu, as I don't use it much at all.)

I think the difference in a professional calibration is (1) it would be much more time efficient, as the DIYer learns by making his own mistakes, (2) it would be done with more accurate instruments, and (3) it might cover other environmental issues, e.g., lighting and audio, beyond the set itself. As a measure of the time I've spent, I have 260 HCFR files saved from measurements on my set and its 3 DVD sources. That's a lot of experimenting.

By the way, I think the limits on the primaries are just built into the sets, my guess is, built into the pixels of the LCD screens themselves. We can configure the set to be really close, but not perfect. And the grayscale is just a tradeoff, how much error can you accept where, e.g., how much color shift do you accept at the top, and do you try to push the error out of the middle by accepting a lot more error at the low end. Tom's comment about the lump in the middle of his grayscale resembles a lot of my measurements. Here again, a professional should have more experience about what errors have visible effects, and what errors are more easily ignored.
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post #110 of 123
3/22/09 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregg Loewen View Post

Using experience and very expensive tools is hardly the same as "twiddling".

My apologies! I honestly would not equate what a pro does with what I might do!!

Actually Gregg - you cal'd a Hitachi SWX20B for me some years ago, and i recall you accessed a lot of the service menu. It took a lot of time - I sent out for pizza - and you were very concerned about getting it right. You did a phenomenal job! My question was in part, generated from that memory. That set looked fantastic - even up to this year when I retired it - still working, and looking good. (considering its age). Twiddling is what I do - not - certainly, what you do!

Mike
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post #111 of 123
3/22/09 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoreiwo View Post

Bill, does your reply mean/indicate that a professional ISF calibration does not go into the SM at all? That can't really be the case is it? I was considering going a pro ISF cal eventually, but if all they will do is the same as my twiddling.... I can't see paying for that!

They must use the SM for some things.... I would hope, for example, that my problems with red on the CIE gamut chart could be addressed, as well as some of the lower grayscale tracking. Unless I missed something in the subtext.

Mike

The only reason to go into a service menu is if the adjustments you need are not user-accessible and are instead in a restricted service menu. If the TV has all the controls you need in the user menu, then there isn't a need to go into the service menu. Where the controls are located doesn't really change the nature of calibration or make it any different.

Thankfully, more and more manufacturers are putting greyscale and CMS controls and the like in user menus rather than hiding them away in service menus where there may be many other adjustments that should not be messed with and are not related to calibration and can totally hose the TV entirely and render it a paperweight.

But again, unless you have the tools, knowledge and experience, just because an end user can twiddle around with all those controls doesn't give you a calibrated image. You aren't paying a calibrator to hack your TV and access the service menu. You are paying for a calibrated image.
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post #112 of 123
3/22/09 at 5:32pm
hi mike!!
no worries.
Chris has summed it up nicely.
Manufacturers are worried about having persons enter the SM. They quite often providing almost all the parameters in the user menus (or advanced user menus).
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post #113 of 123
3/23/09 at 4:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mitchell View Post

Mike, the question is a little off the subject of this thread, being the Samsung DLP service menu, but since you ask:

I haven't seen any information yet that indicates any Samsung LCD service menu options that need to be used for a calibration. Helidoc, I believe, mentioned he has a service manual, but has not mentioned using the service menu for anything. The only hint I've seen is a suggestion somewhere that there might be an option that affects how big a change in gamma is made with each tick in the control. (I'm not counting the control of AMP in the service menu, as I don't use it much at all.)

I think the difference in a professional calibration is (1) it would be much more time efficient, as the DIYer learns by making his own mistakes, (2) it would be done with more accurate instruments, and (3) it might cover other environmental issues, e.g., lighting and audio, beyond the set itself. As a measure of the time I've spent, I have 260 HCFR files saved from measurements on my set and its 3 DVD sources. That's a lot of experimenting.

By the way, I think the limits on the primaries are just built into the sets, my guess is, built into the pixels of the LCD screens themselves. We can configure the set to be really close, but not perfect. And the grayscale is just a tradeoff, how much error can you accept where, e.g., how much color shift do you accept at the top, and do you try to push the error out of the middle by accepting a lot more error at the low end. Tom's comment about the lump in the middle of his grayscale resembles a lot of my measurements. Here again, a professional should have more experience about what errors have visible effects, and what errors are more easily ignored.

Sorry Bill, I saw the Topic name listed as "Samsung Service Menu Calibration Guide", and did not realize it was for DLP models.

And my questions came out of the time I have spent with my set trying to get the best pq I can. Specifically relating to the weakish red/green, and lower % rbg tracking performance in the grayscale. It was my hope that somewhere in the SM a professional could perhaps make an adjustment that I could not.
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post #114 of 123
6/15/09 at 9:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoreiwo View Post

sorry bill, i saw the topic name listed as "samsung service menu calibration guide", and did not realize it was for dlp models.

And my questions came out of the time i have spent with my set trying to get the best pq i can. Specifically relating to the weakish red/green, and lower % rbg tracking performance in the grayscale. It was my hope that somewhere in the sm a professional could perhaps make an adjustment that i could not.

1
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post #115 of 123
6/22/09 at 7:32am
Forgive me if this is in the wrong area, but I have a calibration issue that started after my son went nuts on the remote.
I have a Samsung plasma 50 inch PN50B450. Never had any problems with it, I calibrated it with using the regular menu.
My son got a hold of the remote and he pushes buttons like crazy. The TV was off so I didn’t worry about it too much. The TV came on and had a strange menu (after a little reading I am wondering if this is the service menu) appeared on the left side of the screen, it was a two column grid with words in some and characters in the other. When I realized what had happened the grid disappeared the words “HDMI …. (something)” appeared on the top left of the screen and then the colors started doing weird things.
The tv was cycling through a variety of colors. The image would have a strong tint in one color (blue, green, purple, red) and then it would fade back to more natural tones and then another strong tint.
I couldn’t get the tv to turn off or exit whatever it was doing. Eventually after many minutes (I was not timing) the tv just went black, not off, but black and it stayed like that for a while.
This is probably when I made the mistake. I could not turn the tv off, nothing would respond, so I unplugged it. I plugged it back in later and the tv is responsive to controls again, but the tint is off. I tried recalibrating it, but when I go through the contrast controls it the tinting changes like crazy.
I have it set pretty low right now so the colors like close, but it is obviously not perfect. My component inputs are okay. It is just the hdmi where I have this problem.
Sorry I don’t have any more information, but I hope you all can help me out

Krizage
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post #116 of 123
8/2/11 at 2:00am
Hi Guys,

I hope you can help me out. I have an Samsung TV type: le37R72B and having huge overscan from my media center connected via HDMI.

The Media Center has an option to change the size (nvidia) and make it fit but this means not using the native resolution which is what I try to prevent.

In the normal TV menu I don't see an option to turn of overscan and in the service menu I don't have a glue what to touch.

Thanks for your help it's really appriciated.

Best Yuri
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post #117 of 123
8/6/11 at 4:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by alwilli View Post
The HLTs are a little different than the HLS

The HLT models have a Desaturation menu in addition to the CCA menu. It has xy coordinates for primaries and secondaries called "Normal" and another set called "sRGB". You can calibrate "normal" to rec 601(SD) and sRGB to rec 709 (HD). Initially sRGB is close to Rec. 709. Start by inputting the expected values for the primaries and secondaries for each standard in the Desat menu. Then turn CCA off then back on for your change to take effect. If you want to copy this to other inputs, WB spread. This will get you close. You can then tweak the coordinates in the Desaturation menu in the SM to get all coordinates to line up with the CIE coordinates like this:

Note: SM default is Dynamic Cool1 for white point

1. CCA on
2. Measure primaries/secondaries
3. Calculate x and y delta from nominal
4. Change x and y by that delta in Desaturation menu
5. CCA off
6. CCA on
7. Re-measure
8. Repeat until all primaries and secondaries line up
9. WB spread to copy to all inputs

You can use continuous reading to help if you have SW that does this. I am sure you can probably tweak the CCA values to accomplish this as well. I have not tried that yet. It would be faster because you could see the effect of your changes by scrolling up or down to the next data field in the CCA menu.

Done? Nope. I found that when you exit SM and measure in the user menu that things are off slightly. Don't know why.

User mode will be Dynamic
If you didn't set contrast, brightness, color in SM do so in user and note your settings.

1. Measure primaries/secondaries
2. Calculate x and y delta from nominal
3. Enter SM
4. Change x and y by that delta in Desaturation menu
5. CCA off
6. CCA on
7. WB spread
8. Exit SM

Go into user
Enter calibrated user settings if needed
Repeat steps 1-8 until everything lines up.

Write down all original values, tweak at your own risk, and good luck.

I have noticed that the color decoder does not seem quite right. I do not know how to tweak this. The luminance values for RGB are not right when compared to what they should be to comprise white.

You can tell that I do not write tech manuals for a living but I hope this info helps.

I am quite new to calibration and am having issues figuring out how to set RGB luminance in the service menu with my Samsung HLT 6756W. I tried adjusting the Y values in the CCA menu but they did not seem to change lumince. I have also noticed the luminance values for white do not equal the sum of the luminance values for Red Green and Blue. I see you noticed this as well. Did you figure out how to set luminance for Red Green and Blue?
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post #118 of 123
8/6/11 at 6:32pm
I figured out what controls luminance but never figured out what combination of adjustments would make it respectable. CBB, CRR, CBG, CRG (movie) is what you would adjust but they have a weird interactive behavior. If your overall Delta E's 94 are below 3, I would not worry about it.

Alvin
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post #119 of 123
8/11/11 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by alwilli View Post

I figured out what controls luminance but never figured out what combination of adjustments would make it respectable. CBB, CRR, CBG, CRG (movie) is what you would adjust but they have a weird interactive behavior. If your overall Delta E's 94 are below 3, I would not worry about it.

Alvin

OK I see these in my 'SDP62(PE)' menu. Any idea what these acronyms may stand for?
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post #120 of 123
8/11/11 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by usace View Post

I too would love to see a calibration guide put together for the 750 LED DLP. There is a LOT of information spread out in several different threads on the topic, but I haven't come across a very detailed, step by step procedure. I've seen many posts where someone will list the steps they've used to calibrate only to see a response in the next post where someone else will correct the original poster and list new steps. Some mention calibrating in the dynamic setting while others use the movie setting. Some describe going in and out of SM many times to adjust and then take readings, while others say it's not necessary. I've seen some mention of using the expert mode, turning CCA on then back off, then back on again, etc etc. Needless to say my head is spinning a bit. If one of you gurus could put something together then I know there are a lot of us that would benefit from it and greatly appreciate it.

The thread you can start with is in my signature below:
Or, go to this post in that thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=494
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