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Image Retention...damnit

post #1 of 50
Thread Starter 
I've had and loved my TH42-PX600U Panasonic Plasma for over a year now. I broke it in properly and the TV has over 1000 hours on it with no problem with burn-in or image retention. I got the new Madden for the PS3 yesterday. Didn't even think about IR and played it for about 3 hours straight. I turned on my TV today and sure enough, the scoreboard and EA logo are there. Anyone have any suggestions? I got the Break-In DVD that I got from this forum playing now and I hope it goes away. If not, I'm going to be pretty damn pissed.
post #2 of 50
Give it some time off from madden and play the break in or something else without a static image for a while. It'll go away. Happens to me everytime I play stardust for too long...really a PITA, but oh well. It's one downside to many upsides of having a plasma.
post #3 of 50
no screen protection features in your display menu?

try watching full screen tv for a while...image retention goes away, burn-in dosen't...if its still there after being off over night (i'm asuming approx 8 hrs) then it sounds like burn-in....but it's prolly not permenant if you were playing vids for only 3 hrs..


i'm no expert tho....

see what others say...in the mean time keep watching things that fill up the screen completely

but if your plasma's got some sort of screen protection feature run the all white screen
post #4 of 50
Thread Starter 
I dont believe this TV has a screen protection type feature. It's just over a year old or so. I'm going to call the Panasonic Concierge tomorrow to see if there is a service menu accessible anti burn-in feature. This TV was supposed to the their top of the line consumer model last year, so you'd think there would be something in place to protect this. Like I said, over 1000 hours on it with the first 200 set at ultra low contrast, brightness, etc settings. What worries me is that I played Madden last night for 3 hours or so. I didnt turn the TV on until late this evening, so it was off for probably 16 hours before I turned it back on. After following the break in procedures to the T, I cant believe a few hours of Madden could do this. I've watch movies that are widescreen (not 16:9) for almost 2.5 hours and the black bars never retained. Uh...I hope I have better news to report in the morning. The break-in DVD just cycles through different blank screens of varying color. I didnt want to leave the TV on because of TV logos and also because a lot of stations blank to a SMPTE color pattern in the wee hours.
post #5 of 50
did you shut the set of right after playing the game?
image retention doesn't go away with the set off. the common advice i've read here is that you should watch some full screen material right after gaming, which should 'wash' the panel of any ir.
post #6 of 50
Yep, IR is a static image that is present when you view your television for long time periods, but it will go away within 10-15 minutes when television is not in use or turned off...You will notice IR when you are in a completely dark room with no lights turned on. Its easier to detect the the static image.

Chris

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacolla View Post

Give it some time off from madden and play the break in or something else without a static image for a while. It'll go away. Happens to me everytime I play stardust for too long...really a PITA, but oh well. It's one downside to many upsides of having a plasma.
post #7 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by creemail View Post

Yep, IR is a static image that is present when you view your television for long time periods, but it will go away within 10-15 minutes when television is not in use or turned off...You will notice IR when you are in a completely dark room with no lights turned on. Its easier to detect the the static image.
Chris

so it does fade with the set off? i thought i read that it had to be actively 'washed' off by playing the set.
post #8 of 50
Yes you can either have the tv at its resting stage or run continuous images/video to get rid of the previous static image.

Chris

Quote:
Originally Posted by mo'miles View Post

so it does fade with the set off? i thought i read that it had to be actively 'washed' off by playing the set.
post #9 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by djseto View Post

I've had and loved my TH42-PX600U Panasonic Plasma for over a year now. I broke it in properly and the TV has over 1000 hours on it with no problem with burn-in or image retention. I got the new Madden for the PS3 yesterday. Didn't even think about IR and played it for about 3 hours straight. I turned on my TV today and sure enough, the scoreboard and EA logo are there. Anyone have any suggestions? I got the Break-In DVD that I got from this forum playing now and I hope it goes away. If not, I'm going to be pretty damn pissed.

First, stop gaming for the time being. Then display nothing but full-screen content on your PDP for as long as it takes to reverse what is most likely temporary image retention. I find it hard to believe you could generate a burned in after image with only three hours of gaming on a display that has more than 1000 hours of operation. It may require many hours of displaying full screen content to mitigate the damage so for the time being watch your PDP as you normally would and check each night, with low indirect lighting cast on the display, to see if the image retention has disappeared. Going forward, make sure your display settings (contrast/brightness) are at reasonable levels to prevent any reoccurrence of IR. Good luck.
post #10 of 50
Three hours of one game on a TV with 1000+ on it should not be burning in, it's next to impossible. You might have some stubborn IR but the easiest way to get rid of it is to watch some TV. Activating the phosphors will remove the IR.

Turning off the TV to remove static images is more of an LCD trick.
post #11 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panagurl View Post

Three hours of one game on a TV with 1000+ on it should not be burning in, it's next to impossible. You might have some stubborn IR but the easiest way to get rid of it is to watch some TV. Activating the phosphors will remove the IR.

Turning off the TV to remove static images is more of an LCD trick.

thx for confirming, Panagurl!
post #12 of 50
Yeah I get the Guitar Hero logo's on my Sammy 4254. My TV has a scrolling white screen in the setup menu, and running this for an hour clears it.

OR, I've also noticed watching Discovery HD Theater for a few hours also clears it right up. I always choose Discovery HD Theater because they only show their logo for a very short period of time, and it's transparent. All of their programming is 16:9 and will fill the screen. There's only an occasional commercial or two which is in 4:3.

I like the MOJO channel as well, but it has the logo in the upper right. TNT HD also has their logo in the lower right. It's hard to find channels now a days without logo's. As far as channel logo's showing Image Retention, the MTV Hits logo has been retained (took 2 1/2 hours to go away), the MHD logo, and the CBS logo was retained.

You could find a channel like Discovery HD Theater and keep that on. Set your TV's sleep timer to the maximum amount of time available and then go to bed with it on and the volume down to 0. Or you could just use the burn in disc coupled with the sleep timer. My TV's sleep timer goes up to 2 1/2 hours, and it seems to be enough time. If that's not enough you could just leave it on for the entire night.

I agree that it is a total PITA to have to babysit plasma displays like this. My GF also said how annoying it is. I keep reminding her that we've only used the TV for 2 weeks, it will get more resistant with age. For now we have the settings turned down real low and have to be careful. I've contemplated returning the TV for an LCD, but for the cost and image quality, Plasma is the way to go.
post #13 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by djseto View Post

I've had and loved my TH42-PX600U Panasonic Plasma for over a year now. I broke it in properly and the TV has over 1000 hours on it with no problem with burn-in or image retention. I got the new Madden for the PS3 yesterday. Didn't even think about IR and played it for about 3 hours straight. I turned on my TV today and sure enough, the scoreboard and EA logo are there. Anyone have any suggestions? I got the Break-In DVD that I got from this forum playing now and I hope it goes away. If not, I'm going to be pretty damn pissed.

In case you haven't heard, image retention does not go away if you just shut off your TV, so your probably got done playing Madden and just shut off the TV.

So the next morning, YES you will have a little image retention.

I will guarantee you it will go away after a few hours of normal viewing.

Better yet, if your going to be gone or off to work, turn on the Discovery Channel in HD and just leave it on, when you get home, MAGIC, no more image retention.
post #14 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike171979 View Post

In case you haven't heard, image retention does not go away if you just shut off your TV...

Yep, those claiming otherwise simply don't understand what causes image retention. Image retention is the result of the plasma pixels fading with usage, the brighter and longer they light up, the less bright they can light up, and the speed at which they fade slows as they fade. So if some group of pixels is lit up brighter than others for a long period of time, those pixels won't be able to light up as bright as those other pixels until they are used enough to where they fade back to even. Nothing can change that while the display is off, but the image retention can be easily corrected either by running other content on the display, or more quickly by running a negative image of whatever caused the image retention.

Also, there is no such thing as burn-in on plasmas. Plasma phosphors simply don't get hot enough to actually become burnt, so unlike CRTs there is no risk of permanent damage on a plasma.
post #15 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by kylebisme View Post

Also, there is no such thing as burn-in on plasmas. Plasma phosphors simply don't get hot enough to actually become burnt, so unlike CRTs there is no risk of permanent damage on a plasma.

Really? You sure about this?
post #16 of 50
Thread Starter 
I ran the break-in DVD all night last night and the IR has gone away. As for burn-in, I guess the term is used incorrectly. People that get burn-in get it early when they have a TV because the phosphors dont age evenly when they watch 4:3 programming. Now I am stuck wondering if I should play madden any more on this TV or not. I hate the thought of having to move my PS3 to my LCD TV in my bedroom when I want to play video games because its first function is as a blu-ray player in my home theater
post #17 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by djseto View Post

I ran the break-in DVD all night last night and the IR has gone away. As for burn-in, I guess the term is used incorrectly. People that get burn-in get it early when they have a TV because the phosphors dont age evenly when they watch 4:3 programming. Now I am stuck wondering if I should play madden any more on this TV or not. I hate the thought of having to move my PS3 to my LCD TV in my bedroom when I want to play video games because its first function is as a blu-ray player in my home theater

IR is normal, moreso when the TV is newer. I personally wouldn't worry about it and I'd play away. As long as you intend to watch a little TV or some DVDs, then you're ok from day 1.
post #18 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by optivity View Post

It may require many hours of displaying full screen content to mitigate the damage so for the time being watch your PDP as you normally would and check each night, with low indirect lighting cast on the display, to see if the image retention has disappeared.

This is a recipe for driving yourself insane, checking every night for IR.

Also, you are assuming there was "damage", which is basically impossible after just 3 hours of gaming.. This is just a panic attack after temporary image retention, nothing to worry about. It will be gone after a little bit of normal tv watching.

And, to others, from my experience IR definitely does not go away when the TV is off. When the wifey watches HGTV in 4:3 for 3 hours, I'll turn the TV on the next morning and notice the pillarboxes on the sides are definitely a little lighter than the middle of the screen. This effect disappears after 10-20 minutes of watching full-screen programming.
post #19 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by maynerd View Post

Really? You sure about this?

Completely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djseto View Post

I ran the break-in DVD all night last night and the IR has gone away. As for burn-in, I guess the term is used incorrectly. People that get burn-in get it early when they have a TV because the phosphors dont age evenly when they watch 4:3 programming.

And that's not really burn in either, rather just image retention which will fade when running content across the full screen, or corrected even quicker by displaying a black 4:3 area with white sidebars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

And, to others, from my experience IR definitely does not go away when the TV is off. When the wifey watches HGTV in 4:3 for 3 hours, I'll turn the TV on the next morning and notice the pillarboxes on the sides are definitely a little lighter than the middle of the screen. This effect disappears after 10-20 minutes of watching full-screen programming.

Yeah, if you use black sidebars for too long that area will always show brighter until those phosphors fade down to match, and that simply can't happen with the TV is off. You can aviod the issue all together though by running grey sidebars.
post #20 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by kylebisme View Post

Completely.

Just to ask another question...

Are you saying that there is no way to harm my tv by playing video games with static images, watching movies with black bars, watching 4:3 content with sidebars?

I'm getting a Pioneer PDP-5080HD and 'burn-in/IR' is of concern to me because I don't want my tv getting messed up. So your information is helpful.
post #21 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by maynerd View Post

Are you saying that there is no way to harm my tv by playing video games with static images, watching movies with black bars, watching 4:3 content with sidebars?

Right, none of that can cause permanent damage to a plasma. If you are particularly negligent in leaving such images running on your display for extended periods of time it can cause some can some pretty nasty image retention which you might not be able to get rid of as quickly as you might like, but again it is just a difference in wear betweeen prhosphors, and that can always be evened out.
post #22 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by kylebisme View Post


Yeah, if you use black sidebars for too long that area will always show brighter until those phosphors fade down to match, and that simply can't happen with the TV is off. You can aviod the issue all together though by running grey sidebars.

Ummm, how do they fade down to match when the center is fading too?
post #23 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by maynerd View Post

Are you saying that there is no way to harm my tv by playing video games with static images, watching movies with black bars, watching 4:3 content with sidebars?

I'm getting a Pioneer PDP-5080HD and 'burn-in/IR' is of concern to me because I don't want my tv getting messed up. So your information is helpful.

I have owned a plasma since early 2001; was a 2001 Sony 42" AliS panel; sold that over a year ago (almost 1 1/2 yrs) and bought a Pio 5060. Had always played video games on and off, sometimes for fairly long stretches. Had a recent experience with resulted in me being a lot more cautious. I've been playing Zelda on the Wii a lot lately, and about 2 weeks ago at the end of the weekend, after long stints Fri nite, Sat day, Sat nite, and Sun day (probably 6-8 hrs each, without much interruption) I noticed IR. The "A" button and the "B" Button, in particular, which are up for most of the game, and are bright white, both remained. I quit playing the Wii for a week, and left the panel on with full screen HD mat'l (like another breaking, which I originally did for 200 hrs or so when I got the panel). I don't know the exact hours of the panel, but estimate it's somewhere between 2000 and 4000 hrs.

Anyway, the A and B letters faded, but they are still visible on a white screen or screen with no input. I've gone back to playing, but now try to keep to 2 hour sessions, with movies and tv between. The only time I can see these with normal program material is on an occasional bright white backgroung, like snow, etc. It doesn't bother me for any normal viewing, but after my previous experiences with PS2, XBox, XBox360, GC and (now) PS3 games I wouln't have expected this to happen. I'm pretty sure it's real burn-in, just not so prominent as to be noticeable on normal program mat'l. Once I finish the game I'll give it a few weeks and have another look, but I don't expect it to ever completely disappear.

I'll definitely be more cautious from now on; esp once I get a new panel (was also looking at Pio Kuro, in 60"). May end up relagating the Wii to a smaller LCD panel.

The thing to look for seems to be static bright white images, as far as what can potentially do the most damage. I have read Pio's writeup on image retention, and leaving a static image up for 48 hrs, which they say disappeared after 24 hrs of viewing normal program mat'l (though they don't say that it's not still visible on a white screen and whatnot).
post #24 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaz01 View Post

Ummm, how do they fade down to match when the center is fading too?

Because the pixels fade slower with usage, so the ones that weren't used as much on the sides will fade quicker than the ones that were used more in the middle.
post #25 of 50
Funny, I own a 42pv60 (European model) & I regulary play Xbox 360 games & watch 4:3 transmission with the grey-bars on the sides, but I never experienced retention... Guess I'm lucky!
post #26 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by maynerd View Post

Just to ask another question...

Are you saying that there is no way to harm my tv by playing video games with static images, watching movies with black bars, watching 4:3 content with sidebars?

I'm getting a Pioneer PDP-5080HD and 'burn-in/IR' is of concern to me because I don't want my tv getting messed up. So your information is helpful.

When someone is interested in gaming or using their TV as a computer monitor, they will be better served choosing LCD.

Plasma Facts and Myths Panasonic Presents Advice From the Video Purist Perspective
post #27 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Pauly View Post

if its still there after being off over night (i'm asuming approx 8 hrs) then it sounds like burn-in....but it's prolly not permenant if you were playing vids for only 3 hrs..

Actually this statement is very wrong. Leaving the TV off will in no way fix IR. You have to actually PLAY the set and work the phosphors to even out the wear. What you are referring to is probably charging, which is not likely the case here. He has a minor case of IR.

As to the OP...how are you checking IR? Black screen at 1-2ft away? Do you see it during normal viewing habits? If you don't, then you are likely fine as it will remedy itself as you watch other content.
post #28 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaMan1970 View Post

Funny, I own a 42pv60 (European model) & I regulary play Xbox 360 games & watch 4:3 transmission with the grey-bars on the sides, but I never experienced retention... Guess I'm lucky!


I played plenty of games on the Wii and PS3 before I got the IR with Madden. Don't get to complacent...
post #29 of 50
the same thing happen to me with madden my wife called me one day and said burn in i went crazy the ea logo was in right hand corner but all i had to do was watch t.v. after playing madden.when its late i will set my sleeper on
post #30 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by djseto View Post

I ran the break-in DVD all night last night and the IR has gone away. As for burn-in, I guess the term is used incorrectly. People that get burn-in get it early when they have a TV because the phosphors dont age evenly when they watch 4:3 programming. Now I am stuck wondering if I should play madden any more on this TV or not. I hate the thought of having to move my PS3 to my LCD TV in my bedroom when I want to play video games because its first function is as a blu-ray player in my home theater

I have a PS3 and use it with on older Pioneer 503CMX. I have no problems with burn in, even though it's older technology. I occasionally get IR and it goes away just watching TV. I wouldn't get too concerned about it.
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