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Confused about Home Audio calibration.

post #1 of 26
8/16/07 at 6:01pm
Thread Starter 
So, I've finally decided to go with SVS PB-10 to complete my 5.1 system. In anticipation for my subwoofer, I did some planning over the calibration aspect. I am a bit confuse about the order in which I should run certain test patterns and settings.

First, I know I must find the optimal placement for the sub. After everything is placed and connected, what is the next step to ensure I get the best possible sound? I suppose the first thing to do is set all my other speakers from LARGE to SMALL. Next, do I set the crossover? Do I use the crossover from the receiver, or the knob in the back of the subwoofer. What should I set my crossover to for each individual speaker? I own:

2x Energy C-7
2x Energy C-R1
Energy C-C1

After I have completed the following, what next? Do I use the SPL Meter and run AVIA test patterns? What about the volume knob at the back of the subwoofer? When do I adjust that?

Also, the AVIA guide says to set your receiver volume to 70dB when calibrating. I assume they mean -10dB since 70 is excruciatingly loud.
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post #2 of 26
8/16/07 at 7:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiantSquid View Post

I suppose the first thing to do is set all my other speakers from LARGE to SMALL. Next, do I set the crossover? Do I use the crossover from the receiver, or the knob in the back of the subwoofer. What should I set my crossover to for each individual speaker?

- Disable the crossover on your sub. I don't know about that model SVS, but my 20-39PCi has a switch. Having the receiver's crossover set and the sub's will screw things up. If there is no switch, turn the crossover to the lowest frequency it can go. Set your speakers to small.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiantSquid View Post

After I have completed the following, what next? Do I use the SPL Meter and run AVIA test patterns? What about the volume knob at the back of the subwoofer? When do I adjust that?

- Set your speaker distances. Turn the volume of your subwoofer to the halfway mark before you start the Avia calibration. Run the Avia test patterns from there.

The Avia disc should have step by step instructions on exactly how to calibrate using a SPL meter.
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post #3 of 26
8/16/07 at 8:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tokerblue View Post

If there is no switch, turn the crossover to the lowest frequency it can go.

I think you meant highest.

Ed
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post #4 of 26
8/17/07 at 8:12am
Thread Starter 
According to the manual for my front speaker, it states "Useable Bass Response
(-10db Anechoic): 29 Hz." So do I set the crossover for this speaker to 29Hz?
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post #5 of 26
8/17/07 at 9:21am
No, just go with 80 Hz, which is the "standard" setting.

And from your original post, Avia is talking about playing the tones back at 75 dB SPL. This has nothing to do with the numerical readout on your receiver.
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post #6 of 26
8/17/07 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiantSquid View Post

According to the manual for my front speaker, it states "Useable Bass Response
(-10db Anechoic): 29 Hz." So do I set the crossover for this speaker to 29Hz?

No. This specification is the point at which there is still useful output (the half power point); useful but noticably lower. The C-7's -3 dB point is 34 Hz and the -10 dB point is 29 Hz, which suggests that the output falls rapidly below 34 Hz. That is not unusual in ported designs.

You should begin by setting the crossover point on the receiver above 34 Hz--80 Hz (as already suggested) is a good place to start. Do not adjust it much higher--at higher frequencies you will begin to hear the sub as a separate source-- to localize it and that is not desirable.

As you experiment try both the small and the large settings for your mains.

If you are going to buy a RS meter, I also recommend you get the free EQ Wiz software. It will allow you to graph your sub and mains response curves and to see the result of any changes you make. It can be found at http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/ . It is also supported in an AVS thread.
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post #7 of 26
8/18/07 at 11:38am
Do you set all speakers to crossover at 80hz if you have a receiver that allows to adjust all speakers?

No trying to hijack the thread by any means.
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post #8 of 26
8/18/07 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooskinny View Post

Do you set all speakers to crossover at 80hz if you have a receiver that allows to adjust all speakers?

If you're asking about setting each speaker to a different crossover value when you have this ability, yes, some manufacturers' receivers allow this, but it's actually a little bit controversial. There was an article a few years back about why this is a bad idea; I'll try and locate it.
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post #9 of 26
8/18/07 at 12:07pm
GiantSquid,

Your new subwoofer doesn't have an internal crossover of its own, so there is no crossover to disable nor any knob there to turn it all the way up.

Your subwoofer can only be "crossed-over" by your receiver's crossover setting.
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post #10 of 26
8/19/07 at 1:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

GiantSquid,

Your new subwoofer doesn't have an internal crossover of its own, so there is no crossover to disable nor any knob there to turn it all the way up.

Your subwoofer can only be "crossed-over" by your receiver's crossover setting.

Wow - that's surprising. I know that it's OK for HT, but what's the deal? Is SVS too cheap to give you a Xover? There are situations where you might need one.

Ed
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post #11 of 26
8/19/07 at 1:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

GiantSquid,

Your new subwoofer doesn't have an internal crossover of its own, so there is no crossover to disable nor any knob there to turn it all the way up.

Your subwoofer can only be "crossed-over" by your receiver's crossover setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekb View Post

Wow - that's surprising. I know that it's OK for HT, but what's the deal? Is SVS too cheap to give you a Xover? There are situations where you might need one.

Ed

I think it's simply a cost-cutting measure. The PB-10 is their entry-level attempt to get everyone in on "subwoofer game". I don't see it as such a big deal, as it also doesn't have speaker-level inputs and it only has the unfiltered, mono "LFE input", so it can't be connected to a receiver/pre/pro's L/R pre-outs, either. So, it can basically only be used with an AVR that has crossover capabilities (most do). I do think they could make this more apparent on their website, as I'm sure a few customers have been surprised to find their new subwoofer doesn't have any speaker-level input, L/R line level input, or crossover capabilities.
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post #12 of 26
8/20/07 at 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

If you're asking about setting each speaker to a different crossover value when you have this ability, yes, some manufacturers' receivers allow this, but it's actually a little bit controversial. There was an article a few years back about why this is a bad idea; I'll try and locate it.

I just wanted to know If I set the subs x-over at 80hz on the receiver should the remaining speakers be set at the same of 80hz
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post #13 of 26
8/20/07 at 4:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooskinny View Post

I just wanted to know If I set the subs x-over at 80hz on the receiver should the remaining speakers be set at the same of 80hz

Does your receiver allow you to set the sub's crossover separately from the other speakers' crossover(s)? And does it also allow you to set each speaker's crossover to a different setting? What receiver do you have?
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post #14 of 26
8/21/07 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

Does your receiver allow you to set the sub's crossover separately from the other speakers' crossover(s)? And does it also allow you to set each speaker's crossover to a different setting? What receiver do you have?

I have a HK 335.
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post #15 of 26
8/21/07 at 8:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooskinny View Post

I have a HK 335.

Did that answer the question?

Ed
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post #16 of 26
8/22/07 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

Does your receiver allow you to set the sub's crossover separately from the other speakers' crossover(s)? And does it also allow you to set each speaker's crossover to a different setting? What receiver do you have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tooskinny View Post

I have a HK 335.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekb View Post

Did that answer the question?

Well..........................

I've downloaded his manual and will give it a look/see when I have a chance. I DO know that HKs DO allow different crossover settings for each speaker, I'm just not sure of the EXACT implementation.

I want to find that article about "why it's not good to set different crossovers for each speaker".
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post #17 of 26
8/22/07 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

Well..........................

I've downloaded his manual and will give it a look/see when I have a chance. I DO know that HKs DO allow different crossover settings for each speaker, I'm just not sure of the EXACT implementation.

I want to find that article about "why it's not good to set different crossovers for each speaker".

Thanks a bunch. You really don't have to go threw all that trouble. I thought it would be as simple as if you can set each speakers crossover just match it to what I have the sub crossed over at. I'm trying to convince my brother to set the fronts to small and crossover the sub at 80hz and set the center and rears to the same. The HK keeps shutting down at high volume and he won't listen to reason about setting the fronts to small so the sub will do most of the work to give the HK a break.
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post #18 of 26
8/22/07 at 4:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooskinny View Post

I thought it would be as simple as if you can set each speakers crossover just match it to what I have the sub crossed over at.

Yeah, this is what I don't really understand about your question. I don't think the subwoofer has its own separate crossover setting, so to speak. I think each speaker (fronts, center, rears) has a separate crossover setting that of course, implies that that is the subwoofer's crossover setting as well for those particular speakers (fronts, center, or rears).

Quote:


The HK keeps shutting down at high volume and he won't listen to reason about setting the fronts to small so the sub will do most of the work to give the HK a break.

That the receiver is shutting off is indicative of some problem that should be tended to promptly. I don't care what bass management scheme is used, the HK shouldn't shut down in ANY normal circumstance, whatsoever.
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post #19 of 26
8/23/07 at 3:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

Yeah, this is what I don't really understand about your question. I don't think the subwoofer has its own separate crossover setting, so to speak. I think each speaker (fronts, center, rears) has a separate crossover setting that of course, implies that that is the subwoofer's crossover setting as well for those particular speakers (fronts, center, or rears).

That the receiver is shutting off is indicative of some problem that should be tended to promptly. I don't care what bass management scheme is used, the HK shouldn't shut down in ANY normal circumstance, whatsoever.

I thought that would of explained what I was asking. I know that he can set each speaker front, center and rears to different hz. If he sets the fronts to small and the crossover to 80hz ( that everyone suggest) will center and rears automotically set to 80hz and if not should they be set to 80hz?


I will tell him to contact HK and see what they say.

Thanks for all your help.
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post #20 of 26
8/23/07 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooskinny View Post

I thought that would of explained what I was asking. I know that he can set each speaker front, center and rears to different hz. If he sets the fronts to small and the crossover to 80hz ( that everyone suggest) will center and rears automotically set to 80hz and if not should they be set to 80hz?

Sorry that I haven't read up on it yet.

Some HKs DO allow separate crossover settings for each speaker. For example, you can set the fronts to 80Hz, the center to 100Hz, and the surrounds to 120Hz.

But, as I said, there was an article circulating a few years back that made a pretty good argument for NOT using separate crossovers for each speaker.

I'll read the manual and try to find the article, tonight.
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post #21 of 26
8/29/07 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

Sorry that I haven't read up on it yet.



But, as I said, there was an article circulating a few years back that made a pretty good argument for NOT using separate crossovers for each speaker.

I'll read the manual and try to find the article, tonight.

I have a fairly new HT setup - Ascend Sierras across the front, SE170s for surrounds and a VTF3 sub. Initially, I had all the speakers crossed over at 80. However, when I ran the AVIA sweep test (200-20 Hz), I found a pretty sizable drop off in output between 80-60Hz. Crossing over the fronts at 60 rectified this somewhat. I now get a much smaller drop-off from 50-60.
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post #22 of 26
8/29/07 at 11:20am
That is due to the sub's interaction with your room....but if your main speakers can hack it running at 60 Hz, then you have solved the problem.
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post #23 of 26
8/29/07 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadselim View Post

Sorry that I haven't read up on it yet.

Some HKs DO allow separate crossover settings for each speaker. For example, you can set the fronts to 80Hz, the center to 100Hz, and the surrounds to 120Hz.

But, as I said, there was an article circulating a few years back that made a pretty good argument for NOT using separate crossovers for each speaker.

I'll read the manual and try to find the article, tonight.


I just got a H/K 247....what it allows is seperate crossovers for front, center, surround, surround-back....then there is a crossover setting for the sub..but its choices are main,center,surround. So it sets the subs crossover to match the selected speaker. At least thats what I am assuming.

On mine the settings ended up:

Front-(small), 60hz
Center-(small) 80hz
Surround-(small) 80hz
Surround back-(NONE)
Sub-(LFE)-Surround (80)

which is totally different from what the auto-calibration gave me...which was

Front-(large)-40hz
Center-(large)-40hz
Surround-(small)-100hz
Sub-(L/R+LFE), Surround
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post #24 of 26
8/29/07 at 7:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by harsubs View Post

I have a fairly new HT setup - Ascend Sierras across the front, SE170s for surrounds and a VTF3 sub. Initially, I had all the speakers crossed over at 80. However, when I ran the AVIA sweep test (200-20 Hz), I found a pretty sizable drop off in output between 80-60Hz. Crossing over the fronts at 60 rectified this somewhat. I now get a much smaller drop-off from 50-60.

Do you have your sub's low pass filter bypassed (if possible) or set to the highest frequency? Have you played with the phase adjustment of the sub (is it 0 or 180 degrees, or continuously variable?) ?

Ed
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post #25 of 26
8/29/07 at 8:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekb View Post

Do you have your sub's low pass filter bypassed (if possible) or set to the highest frequency? Have you played with the phase adjustment of the sub (is it 0 or 180 degrees, or continuously variable?) ?

Ed

Yes, the sub's filter is bypassed. The phase has 2 settings - 0 & 180. Using the tones on the AVIA (speaker + sub together), I chose a phase setting that gave me the highest conistent output. I didn't see much of difference in the SPLs or hear an aubible drop-off for this particular test. I didn't perform the sweep test at both phases to see if that made a difference. When I saw the dip at 80, I switched the crossover to 60 and that seemed to help. I will plot my room response using the real traps test tones tomorrow and see what that looks like at different crossover frequencies.

NOTE to OP: Sorry, but I didn't mean to hijack your thread.
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post #26 of 26
8/29/07 at 8:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rynberg View Post

That is due to the sub's interaction with your room....but if your main speakers can hack it running at 60 Hz, then you have solved the problem.

Yeah, so far the Sierras look like they can hack it. I have to run them without a sub to see if they can truly handle the 40-60Hz stuff.
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