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The "Official" VSX-94TXH Thread...:0) - Page 2

post #31 of 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by swestbom View Post

Don't even bother, 530 watt power supply, same as the 84, 74, look at the high resolution rear view to see for yourself. Onkyo 805 here I come (875 watt power supply). Still don't even know if the 94 handles DSD natively.


Aren't you ignoring differences in efficency? Not trying to split hairs too much, but basing a purchase decision like this off of just one number is a little narrow-minded imho.

I think I've heard those Onkyos run hot (I thought I read it around here), and if I recall correctly, the sentiment is that the Pios don't pump out as much heat. If the onkyo is generating 30% more heat for example (just throwing that out here), they could be much closer in power output than you assume...

I'm not favoring one over the other (I may buy either, or a denon), but this assessment seemed out of place. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong, anyone.

Edit: Okay, so this is an idea of what we're comparing...by no means apples to apples, but hopefully close enough to spark some thought...

Pioneer Elite VSX-84TXH (Just using the 84 since the 94 page isn't up...I assume it's going to be very similar)
Surround Power: 140 Watts x 7 (20Hz 20kHz, 8 ohms, .09% THD )
Stereo Power: 140 Watts x 2 (20Hz 20kHz, 8 ohms, .09% THD )
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...tailsComponent

Onkyo
Front L/R
130 W + 130 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
150 W + 150 W (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.7%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
160 W + 160 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...class=Receiver

I don't see a rating for all channels driven.

Edit 2:
Food for thought - measurements on an 82txs
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/r...ments-analysis
Check out the "Amplifier Efficiency" section in this Pio audioholics link:

1CH, 333 watts consumption, 166 watts outoput @ 8 ohms, 50 % efficient

The onkyo lists something called "dynamic power" and shows: 150 W (8 ohms, 1 ch) which *may* be similar (depending on several factors, of course)

I can't draw any conclusions here, but I hope I made my point that this is a muddy discussion...
post #32 of 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyozero3 View Post

Aren't you ignoring differences in efficency? Not trying to split hairs too much, but basing a purchase decision like this off of just one number is a little narrow-minded imho.

I think I've heard those Onkyos run hot (I thought I read it around here), and if I recall correctly, the sentiment is that the Pios don't pump out as much heat. If the onkyo is generating 30% more heat for example (just throwing that out here), they could be much closer in power output than you assume...

I'm not favoring one over the other (I may buy either, or a denon), but this assessment seemed out of place. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong, anyone.

Edit: Okay, so this is an idea of what we're comparing...by no means apples to apples, but hopefully close enough to spark some thought...

Pioneer Elite VSX-84TXH (Just using the 84 since the 94 page isn't up...I assume it's going to be very similar)
Surround Power: 140 Watts x 7 (20Hz 20kHz, 8 ohms, .09% THD )
Stereo Power: 140 Watts x 2 (20Hz 20kHz, 8 ohms, .09% THD )
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pn...tailsComponent

Onkyo
Front L/R
130 W + 130 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
150 W + 150 W (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.7%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
160 W + 160 W (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.1%, 2 channels driven, FTC)
http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=...class=Receiver

I don't see a rating for all channels driven.

Edit 2:
Food for thought - measurements on an 82txs
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/r...ments-analysis
Check out the "Amplifier Efficiency" section in this Pio audioholics link:

1CH, 333 watts consumption, 166 watts outoput @ 8 ohms, 50 % efficient

The onkyo lists something called "dynamic power" and shows: 150 W (8 ohms, 1 ch) which *may* be similar (depending on several factors, of course)

I can't draw any conclusions here, but I hope I made my point that this is a muddy discussion...

I have seen postings on the onkyo claiming a temp around 120 degrees (fahrenheit). It would be interesting to see how hot the Pioneer is. But there would have to be a radically different amplifier technology in the Pio to come even close to the output of the Onkyo. My 56txi has a 600 watt power supply and runs fairly cool but it is probably not much different from the 120 on the Onkyo. I will put our meat thermometer over it and see what it registers.
post #33 of 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by swestbom View Post

I have seen postings on the onkyo claiming a temp around 120 degrees (fahrenheit). It would be interesting to see how hot the Pioneer is. But there would have to be a radically different amplifier technology in the Pio to come even close to the output of the Onkyo. My 56txi has a 600 watt power supply and runs fairly cool but it is probably not much different from the 120 on the Onkyo. I will put our meat thermometer over it and see what it registers.

are you afraid to box up your 56? i know i am.
post #34 of 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by rommy View Post

are you afraid to box up your 56? i know i am.

I sure am. I'm going to give a 94TX a try but if it doesn't live up to the 56TXi then I'll probably return it. Of course the 94TX is capable of lossless sound over HDMI, so I can't imagine it not having better HT sound than the 56TXi.
post #35 of 4947
I have the VSX-94 for a couple of weeks now and I am slowly going through the millions of settings available. I have yet to scratch the surface. One issue I am having is the internal video switching. My TV is DVI in so I have an HDMI to DVI cable out from reciever and it drops the signal from either my Elite DVD player(HDMI) and my other DVD player (component). on my Elite DVD it displays the setup menu but no picture and the other DVD player displays picture for a few seconds then drops out and comes back. Pioneer not sure what the problem is. feel free to email direct dpadilla@glendale.edu
post #36 of 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by BdoUK View Post

I sure am. I'm going to give a 94TX a try but if it doesn't live up to the 56TXi then I'll probably return it. Of course the 94TX is capable of lossless sound over HDMI, so I can't imagine it not having better HT sound than the 56TXi.

that's if everything works the way it's supposed to. iv'e been reading the other posts, as i'm sure you have, and it seems none of these units (905-4308) are perfect. it could be a major waste of money.
post #37 of 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by rommy View Post

... it seems none of these units (905-4308) are perfect. it could be a major waste of money.

Can you please expand on what this means?
post #38 of 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by misfitflt View Post

Can you please expand on what this means?

what i'm saying is that making a jump from a pio 56 which has a great amp section, to one of these avrs, may only yield marginal improvement, if any in sound. i'm sure they sound fine with movies becouse there both bright receivers, but it usually means that music will not sound as rich and full, unless the volume is at reference levels. you must admit those receivers are not without their quirks. ( at least 50% of the people who bought a 905 are having hdmi problems.)
post #39 of 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by misfitflt View Post

Can you please expand on what this means?

HDMI has been plagued with teething problems mostly concerning repeaters (like receivers) and copy protection.

The 56txi is really good for SACD I doubt the PCM only 90 series will be able to equal it (DSD to PCM before DAC is not my idea of a solution). Also for standard dvds the 94 is no improvement.
post #40 of 4947
My current receiver is a Pioneer Elite VSX-45TX. No HDMI. But it does have SACD. I currently got money down on the VSX-94TXH. I expect to pick it up Wednesday.

I hope as you say, I am not wasting my money.

I am not sure what you mean by 'PCM only 90 series' means. I know this is a complicated matter and I should read up on it.

I see that the 90 manual says...

"Multichannel analog audio inputs
7.1 channel inputs for connection to a DVD player with multichannel analog outputs."

And the 94 manual says...

"Connecting the multichannel analog inputs
For DVD Audio and SACD playback, your DVD player may have 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 channel analog outputs (depending on whether your player supports surround back channels).
1 Make sure that the player is set to output multichannel analog audio."

If these aren't for accepting input from SACD, what are they?

But most of all , I am hoping the 94 offers good HDMI switching and upconverting. I am also hoping to be amazed by the HOME MEDIA GALLERY.

If HDMI switching doesn't 'ROCK' then maybe I will find I am wasting my money.

Thanks in advance for any sage advice.

Mark
post #41 of 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by rommy View Post

what i'm saying is that making a jump from a pio 56 which has a great amp section, to one of these avrs, may only yield marginal improvement, if any in sound. i'm sure they sound fine with movies becouse there both bright receivers, but it usually means that music will not sound as rich and full, unless the volume is at reference levels. you must admit those receivers are not without their quirks. ( at least 50% of the people who bought a 905 are having hdmi problems.)


Where did you get the impression these were 'bright receivers'? I've never heard of Denon being described as 'bright' and I'm not sure people would characterize Pioneers as 'bright'. I've heard the Onkyos described that way, but those that own the 905 say it's not.
post #42 of 4947
I just noticed that the 94 has an ethernet port, but it is 10/100. I am surprised that it isn't Gigabit!

The specifications of a LAN terminal
LAN terminal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Ethernet jack
10BASE-T/100BASE-TX

Is Pioneer trying to cut corners on its new flagship receivers?

Mark
post #43 of 4947
I posted this on the general site, but posting here as well in hope of those who already purchased to help direct me:

"Made up my mind to pick up a 92 or 94. Can someone please help direct me as to where to buy. Also, are there any deals to be had or is it all MSRP since we are dealing with the elite line where it is only sold to outlets with a store front and not just web sales.

Private PM would be great for location and prices to expect. Thanks in advance for your help."
post #44 of 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Where did you get the impression these were 'bright receivers'? I've never heard of Denon being described as 'bright' and I'm not sure people would characterize Pioneers as 'bright'. I've heard the Onkyos described that way, but those that own the 905 say it's not.

sorry i wasn't talking about the pioneer, but yes denon have been characterized as bright or dry.
post #45 of 4947
I am very impressed with the audio features of the 94 as described in the manual. Home Media Gallery adds many of the CI features of the Denon 3808 I have been considering up to now. A remaining question is the ability to download future S/W upgades. The LAN path is there but I see no mention of using it for downloads in either the 94 Manual or its Home Media Gallery Manual. Pioneer is currently doing upgrades to the 72, 74, 81,and 84 software and you need to return the unit to a service center for the update. Does anybody know of evidence that there will be a download approach for the 94?
post #46 of 4947
I have a question, kinda off topic. I currently own a vsx 74 and i have it hooked up with my elite dv79avi with fire wire (ieee 1394) thats how i get dobly D, dts and sacd and dvd audio. If i were to upgrade to the 94, how much if any, will i lose going from firewire to digital coax for movies and from sacd and dvd audio going the analog route? Also does any body know the bit rates for firewire vs digital coax/optical? thanks
post #47 of 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiophreak View Post

I have a question, kinda off topic. I currently own a vsx 74 and i have it hooked up with my elite dv79avi with fire wire (ieee 1394) thats how i get dobly D, dts and sacd and dvd audio. If i were to upgrade to the 94, how much if any, will i lose going from firewire to digital coax for movies and from sacd and dvd audio going the analog route? Also does any body know the bit rates for firewire vs digital coax/optical? thanks

Firewire on these receivers uses the 400 mbps IEE-1394 spec. Coaxial is a pathetic standard at this point, no DVD-Audio or SACD, it doesn't support copy protection nor does it have the bandwidth and it has jitter problems that don't exist with iLink.

The bass management in the 79 is pretty marginal, it has a 100 hertz crossover that is fixed (12 db per octave for SACD 24 for DVD-Audio) if you want to use it for bass management. Better to get a new player such as the Oppo 980 (passes DSD via HDMI), or with these Pioneers the 981 since they don't seem to process DSD natively anyway (the 92/94 convert it to PCM from what I can see in the manuals, Pioneer should clarify it).

The Oppo will give you a better picture and better sound (because it is just passing the bitstream) if you are using iLink currently and want to use the receiver for all sound processing. I bet you could sell the 79 for twice what the Oppo sells for. That is my planned route anyway, but Pioneer is no longer on my list because of the DSD processing (I have well over 100 SACDs). Denon, Onkyo and its twin brand Integra all have native DSD processing in their latest receivers at this price level, but go the same route as the Pioneer once you apply bass management or DSP (I use neither for most SACDs).

The preamp sections on all these receiver brands are just mediocre, I use iLink on my 56txi, I think the sound is better, so I wouldn't want to use the analog section of the DVD player. The 94 will probably sound just like your 74 so you should be able to test it as a close proxy with the analog setup (I doubt they changed much in the preamp, amp sections between the 74/84/94, all the money went into the DSP and UI sections I bet).
post #48 of 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by swestbom View Post

Better to get a new player such as the Oppo 980 (passes DSD via HDMI), or with these Pioneers the 981 since they don't seem to process DSD natively anyway (the 92/94 convert it to PCM from what I can see in the manuals, Pioneer should clarify it).

The Oppo will give you a better picture and better sound (because it is just passing the bitstream) if you are using iLink currently and want to use the receiver for all sound processing. I bet you could sell the 79 for twice what the Oppo sells for. That is my planned route anyway, but Pioneer is no longer on my list because of the DSD processing (I have well over 100 SACDs).

The 94 will handle DSD without PCM in the PURE DIRECT mode. I have an Oppo DV-980H; and playing an SACD with the PURE DIRECT setting, only the DSD light comes on. To get it to play this way you have to toggle through a couple of the S. DIRECT settings.
post #49 of 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by fr_fr_tx View Post

The 94 will handle DSD without PCM in the PURE DIRECT mode. I have an Oppo DV-980H; and playing an SACD with the PURE DIRECT setting, only the DSD light comes on. To get it to play this way you have to toggle through a couple of the S. DIRECT settings.

Thank you, the manual was less than clear on that. How about bass management does it still convert to PCM for this?
post #50 of 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by swestbom View Post

Thank you, the manual was less than clear on that. How about bass management does it still convert to PCM for this?

Yes, to perform bass management the signal must first be converted to PCM.
post #51 of 4947
Is the remote backlit?
post #52 of 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig F View Post

Is the remote backlit?

The remote is not backlit. It glows in the dark.
post #53 of 4947
Glows in the dark? Isn't that gonna run out of juice if it sits in a dark theater room, lights get turned on for 5 minutes, then turn back off for the movie?
post #54 of 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by NismoZ View Post

Glows in the dark? Isn't that gonna run out of juice if it sits in a dark theater room, lights get turned on for 5 minutes, then turn back off for the movie?

Glow in the dark (or phosphorescence) doesn't use any 'juice'.
I guess you've never had a glow in the dark toy, or a watch?

Wiki says:-

"Phosphorescence is a specific type of photoluminescence related to fluorescence. Unlike fluorescence, a phosphorescent material does not immediately re-emit the radiation it absorbs. The slower time scales of the re-emission are associated with "forbidden" energy state transitions in quantum mechanics. As these transitions occur less often in certain materials, absorbed radiation may be re-emitted at a lower intensity for up to several hours.

In simpler terms, phosphorescence is a process in which energy absorbed by a substance is released relatively slowly in the form of light. This is in some cases the mechanism used for "glow-in-the-dark" materials which are "charged" by exposure to light. Unlike the relatively swift reactions in a common fluorescent tube, phosphorescent materials used for these materials absorb the energy and "store" it for a longer time as the subatomic reactions required to re-emit the light occur less often.
"
post #55 of 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by misfitflt View Post

I just noticed that the 94 has an ethernet port, but it is 10/100. I am surprised that it isn't Gigabit!

The specifications of a LAN terminal
LAN terminal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Ethernet jack
10BASE-T/100BASE-TX

Is Pioneer trying to cut corners on its new flagship receivers?

Mark

Whaddya need Gigabit for - you are only using it for streaming audio at less than 100kbps. Also, check your home router, I bet you all ports on it are 100Mbps, GigE home routers are very rate. My question to Pioneer is why wired networking, why not stick in WiFi, much more convenient, it would be a major pain for me to make a wired Ethernet connection, or use an external access point to connect to my wireless network.

I would be very curious to hear how the home media networking function works for both streaming audio files from the PC (e.g. AACs from iTunes) and streaming internet radio stations.
post #56 of 4947
Best Buy is now showing this as Coming Soon on their website and I got a call today from my local BB Magnolia store saying they now have 1 in stock.
post #57 of 4947
My HP n7674n Media Center PC, my PS3 and my NetGear Desktop Switch (GS108) are all Gigabit Ethernet. I use cat-7 cables for all. For streaming media wireless is sort of pathetic, don't you think?
post #58 of 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by misfitflt View Post


But most of all , I am hoping the 94 offers good HDMI switching and upconverting. I am also hoping to be amazed by the HOME MEDIA GALLERY.

If HDMI switching doesn't 'ROCK' then maybe I will find I am wasting my money.

Thanks in advance for any sage advice.

Mark

I am hoping for this as well. I will let you know I am getting mine tomorrow. And I am one the crazy people that still has a LD player. So i want all of my LD's upconverted.
post #59 of 4947
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbye View Post

"glow-in-the-dark" materials which are "charged" by exposure to light"

That's the point. dark room = no light = no glow.
post #60 of 4947
We're dieing here, let's get some user feedback on this model....please.
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