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HT Room -- oooo, its so small

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
The attached diagram is the lay out for a forced basement renovation. Unfortunately, the room labeled TV Room is the only area available, and cannot be increased in size, for my HT room. The pictured pocket door instead will be a normal solid core door. On the bottom end there is a tapered cement buttress of some sort (think the side of a pyramid), and that is what is creating the two alcoves.

I hope/plan on putting in 16:9 screen 90x103x51 with a 1080p projector (I watch alot of sports). I like the price and features of the Optoma HD80 but because of the throw distance and offset, may have to wait to buy next year's model, which Guitarman says will be more accomodating in these aspects.

So, the questions:
1. which direction should I orient the room (again, there will not be a pocket door)? The short side of that wall is 5 feet from the door,and the long side is 7 feet. Putting the screen on the top side (opposite the buttress) would allow me to use the alcove to house the equipment, but I am worried that the door placement will adversely affect the room acoustics -- I will be putting up acoustic panels. If I tried to put the at screen on the buttress/alcove side, I might be able to wedge a speaker into the small alcove (diagram shows the wall leaving the small alcove blocked off), but that would leave the center resting on the pyramid-like taperedbuttress itself and probably placed pretty high on the screen. Both the front speaker being in small alcove and the center placement strike me as ill-advised from what I have read.

2. Any other suggestions for the alcove? fyi, I cannot put a door accessing the alcove from the mechanical room because the furnace sits there. I plan on using quietrock and the general sound isolation building techniques suggested in the master thread.

3. I need two rows of seats. Given the significant limitation that creates given the small size of the room, do you think I can use an acoustically transparent screen? Everything I have read, and all the calculators suggest not because I do not have an inch to spare (ha, ha), but then I see posters with obscene numbers of posts and whose content suggests to my uninformed self that they have some knowledge with similarly sized rooms with at screens and even larger screens.

4. if I have to go with a fixed screen, is it better to put the center channel below or above the screen? And either way, should it be tilted?

5. is there any problem with angling the ceiling so the room height rises from 8 feet to 9 feet (8 feet accomodating hvac on the alcove/buttress side) in order to help solve the projector throw/offset problem?

6. is the room big enough for 7.1 or 7.2?

Any other lay suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for your time, knowledge and creativity.

 

basement plans.pdf 208.9853515625k . file
post #2 of 11
You can get two rows of seating in but the back row probably shouldn't recline (basically be a couch or arm chairs) and depending on how you set up the speakers your rear surrounds may not be very effective for back row listening.

The people in your front row will have decent surround sound but may end up being just a bit too close to the screen for comfort especially the screen is too large.

103" should be alright since you plan to go with 1080p as that should help eliminate SDE but if they sit too close it can potentially induce eyestrain from watching over long periods.

I would definitely set up the screen and projector to test how everything looks before you settle on exactly where and how the seats will be arranged.

You might be able to do an acoustically transparent screen but may have to consider in-wall speakers to place behind it if you can't afford the loss of space needed to build an enclosure for them on the front wall. This would hide the speakers and center your sound behind the screen but may increase your sound leakage into other areas of the basement to louder levels than you will be happy with.
post #3 of 11
How big is a 90x103x51 screen? Which dimension is depth? I guess you mean 90x51 or 103 diagonal. I guess you mentioned an acoustically transparent screen so you can go for in-walls, to keep the speakers from covering the screen? Our theater is 18x10.5 and we put in a 100x56.5 or 114.5 diagonal screen:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=883876
Yes, from the side seats the speakers just barely clip the screen, even with the speakers closer to the side walls than I would like. Fact is, mostly there will only be 2-4 people in the room, so the "bad" seats won't see much use. Just put people there you don't like. Anyway, your room is 6" wider than mine and your screen is smaller so I think you can use floorstanders if you want.

Your specific questions:

1) You kind of answered your own question but... Orient it like you have it, so you can put the equipment behind the seating in the alcove. If you can't fit the equipment there because of the furnace, then rotate it 180 so you are furthest away from the noisy furnace. You probably can't eliminate all sound from it. In this case, you can put the equipment next to the back row, like I have done.
2) We had a hot water heater right in the theater. The solution was to just disable it while the theater is in use with Insteon. Make sure if you cover it that the furnace can still pull in fresh air.
3) Calculate the depth of the back row seating, leave some space for people to walk in front of the seating (I left ~24"), then figure where the head's of people in the front row are. The rule is sit the people 1.5 times the screen width from the screen to their head. So figure the distance between the front row's head and the screen, then multiple by 0.6666666 (1/1.5). This is the screen width. As mentioned, the only reason you'd use an acoustically transparent screen (in your room) is to use in-walls. BTW, with two rows you will need a riser.
4) Directly behind is best, but below is usually easier. You just want dialog to be coming from the screen. Most mounts tilt the speaker slightly toward the listeners' heads, eg:
http://www.standsandmounts.com/index...OD&ProdID=5544
5) What projector throw problem? Does the PJ you want not have enough lense shift? That doesn't sound right.
6) In my 10.5'W room, the surrounds for 5.1 are very close to two of the seats (the same "bad" seats already mentioned ). I could put two more surrounds on the back wall, but I don't think it is really necessary. So yes, I think you can do 7.1 if you wanted, just remember that some seats will be too close to the surrounds.
post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaTeDoGG View Post

How big is a 90x103x51 screen? Which dimension is depth? I guess you mean 90x51 or 103 diagonal. I guess you mentioned an acoustically transparent screen so you can go for in-walls, to keep the speakers from covering the screen? Our theater is 18x10.5 and we put in a 100x56.5 or 114.5 diagonal screen:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=883876
Yes, from the side seats the speakers just barely clip the screen, even with the speakers closer to the side walls than I would like. Fact is, mostly there will only be 2-4 people in the room, so the "bad" seats won't see much use. Just put people there you don't like. Anyway, your room is 6" wider than mine and your screen is smaller so I think you can use floorstanders if you want.

Your specific questions:

1) You kind of answered your own question but... Orient it like you have it, so you can put the equipment behind the seating in the alcove. If you can't fit the equipment there because of the furnace, then rotate it 180 so you are furthest away from the noisy furnace. You probably can't eliminate all sound from it. In this case, you can put the equipment next to the back row, like I have done.
2) We had a hot water heater right in the theater. The solution was to just disable it while the theater is in use with Insteon. Make sure if you cover it that the furnace can still pull in fresh air.
3) Calculate the depth of the back row seating, leave some space for people to walk in front of the seating (I left ~24"), then figure where the head's of people in the front row are. The rule is sit the people 1.5 times the screen width from the screen to their head. So figure the distance between the front row's head and the screen, then multiple by 0.6666666 (1/1.5). This is the screen width. As mentioned, the only reason you'd use an acoustically transparent screen (in your room) is to use in-walls. BTW, with two rows you will need a riser.
4) Directly behind is best, but below is usually easier. You just want dialog to be coming from the screen. Most mounts tilt the speaker slightly toward the listeners' heads, eg:
http://www.standsandmounts.com/index...OD&ProdID=5544
5) What projector throw problem? Does the PJ you want not have enough lense shift? That doesn't sound right.
6) In my 10.5'W room, the surrounds for 5.1 are very close to two of the seats (the same "bad" seats already mentioned ). I could put two more surrounds on the back wall, but I don't think it is really necessary. So yes, I think you can do 7.1 if you wanted, just remember that some seats will be too close to the surrounds.

The Optoma HD80, but it does not have lens shift. However, I just realized that if I keep the orientation depicted in the diagram, I can squeez another foot or two for the throw because the projector would be mounted at the top of the buttress, which is deeper than the wall.

Re 7.1 versus 5.1, given the small size of the room and how tight the 2 sets of surrounds would be, do you think I would be better off using my 7 speaker budget and buying an upgraded 5.1 system? yesterday, while this site was off-line I found an article claiming that in small and medium sized rooms 7.1 adds nothing to the sound experience that you get from a 5.1, except cost.

Also, will the placement of the door as depicted cause me any signiifcant acoustical problems versus reversing the room lay out?
post #5 of 11
I couldn't live without the lense shift on my Sanyo Z2 (yeah, I need to upgrade!). I would not recommend getting a projector without lense shift. I can't imagine mounting the PJ in exactly the right place that the picture is both square and perfectly on the screen. What a nightmare! I think the only other PJ of the same class and at the same price but with lense shift is the Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 1080.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epso...inema_1080.htm
It is LCD instead of DLP, but I doubt you'll see any differences as their specs are almost identical. How does the throw differ between them? IE, what is your largest throw distance? Be sure to get the biggest screen you can fit in there, you don't want to regret your screen size! Mask it up and see how it looks from the sitting position. Or buy the PJ first and try it before you get the screen.

I would (and did) go with better 5.1 speakers than 7.1. Remember, your PJ will get replaced long before your speakers.

I think you are worrying too much about the door.
post #6 of 11
another vote for 5.1. The rear channels just help envelop the surround a bit more, not a huge deal in a room of that size. Just make sure you use dipoles since these things will be firing pretty close to people (and put them up higher).

In-wall with an AT screen can serve you well. If you are worried about bleed, get fully sealed inwalls like Triad (and I am sure others). For what it is worth, acoustically you will likely do better than having the speakers right next to a wall.

Curt
post #7 of 11
As far as seating since you watch a lot of sports - you could do a row of recliners with a fixed bar and height seats behind the recliners. It would give it that Sports Bar feel.
post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-dubb16 View Post

As far as seating since you watch a lot of sports - you could do a row of recliners with a fixed bar and height seats behind the recliners. It would give it that Sports Bar feel.


That is a good idea, but there will be a bar on the other side of the screen wall where you exit to the pool. While a like a glass of scotch or a cold beer as much as anyone, another bar may be sending the wrong message to the kids. "Hey look, daddy's hands are empty ... where did he leave his drink"
post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaTeDoGG View Post

I couldn't live without the lense shift on my Sanyo Z2 (yeah, I need to upgrade!). I would not recommend getting a projector without lense shift. I can't imagine mounting the PJ in exactly the right place that the picture is both square and perfectly on the screen. What a nightmare! I think the only other PJ of the same class and at the same price but with lense shift is the Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 1080.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epso...inema_1080.htm
It is LCD instead of DLP, but I doubt you'll see any differences as their specs are almost identical. How does the throw differ between them? IE, what is your largest throw distance? Be sure to get the biggest screen you can fit in there, you don't want to regret your screen size! Mask it up and see how it looks from the sitting position. Or buy the PJ first and try it before you get the screen.

I would (and did) go with better 5.1 speakers than 7.1. Remember, your PJ will get replaced long before your speakers.

I think you are worrying too much about the door.

I will check out that PJ. I was planning on getting the PJ and seeing how the various screen sizes work. Everyone says get as big a screen as you can fit, but I will be able to fit a bigger screen than what seems appropriate for the seating distance. Like the door, perhaps simply watching the PJ on a temp screen will allay my fears about sitting too close or convince me that I don't need a couple extra inches on everything.

I think I will follow the 5.1 suggestion, upgrade the speakers and maybe add a 2nd bass.
post #10 of 11
I was thinking more of a sitting bar, not one where you make the drinks. A few people on the site have them, I can't seam to locate a picture. I remember BigmouthinDC has one, but I can't locate the picture I am looking for.
post #11 of 11
Hey noob, what is going on here? I know you are still around as I saw a post last month but nothing in here for ages.
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