Official Sony XBR4/XBR5 calibration thread - Page 15

FYI, here's a link to the other thread where I posted about the update: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post11754257

Brandon

Yes I do have that STB. I think determining how good the SD PQ is depends on your perspective. In short, it's all relative.

Coming from a 32xbr1, I assumed that the typically poor SD feeds from Comcast Cable would just be exacerbated by the larger 46" screen size of my XBR4. However it seems to be upscaling a bit better than my previous TV did. Most SD content is bearable to watch, but some still isn't.

For example, a lot of the King of Queens reruns on TBS look solid, and some Comedy Central stuff looks better than it used to. However, watching Wonder Years reruns on Ion still looks like crap.

I'll probably be buying a Denon 3808 AVR soon and seeing how much the upscaling of SD feeds improves with the Faroudja processing chip.

Brandon

So do you prefer DRC off then? Have we figured out exactly what DRC does? In some instances I think the picture looks sharper in DRC mode 1. Later tonight I'll try what you did and see if I notice the same thing.

Yea, I have it turned off.

It's funny because the manual says that DRC Mode is for high density signals like BD, DVD and satellite signals. The manual goes on to say that Mode2 is especially effective for upconverted SD 1080i signals. I figure that's what I'm looking for. So, I changed my STB to upconvert to 1080i (was on passthru) and set the DRC to Mode2. No difference. The picture still has quite a bit of unnatural artifacts. I especially notice it in people's faces. The farther away the camera gets from the subject, the worse it gets.

You have to be up close to the set to see it clearly, but I figured if the PQ is bad from 3-5 feet, it's not looking it's best from 10'. So I turned DRC off.

Also, under "Troubleshooting" in the manual, it says if you experience noise in the picture, try turning DRC either OFF or ON. In my case, turning it off helped a bunch.

If anyone else experiences something different with DRC Mode, please let me know.

Bad idea - you just crushed your blacks noticeably.

I am guessing you tweaked Picture and Brightness to improve contrast? If so, put the Brightness back to 54, and set ACE to low - you will still get more contrast, but you will not lose any black detail.

I noticed that too.

I have my 52xbr calibrated to gordy11's settings on "Custom" picture mode. Last night, I loaded MuscleRunts' settings on the "Standard" picture mode and flipped back and forth to see which I liked best. I like both a lot so I'll keep the tv that way and watch more and decide which I like the best.

Did you notice any effects DRC/Mode1 had on SD PQ??

I did the same thing between standard and custom

I have noticed that gordong's gives me a little more blueish hue while MuscleRunts' gives I think a little more natural color even though the Temp is Warm 2. I was watching Leno last night on Clear QAM and you could definitely tell the difference. I have DRC set to 50/50 and will mess around that some.

As promised, here are my current settings for my 32" XBR4. Please note that these do not correspond to settings for any of the larger sets (40" and up), because the 32" uses a different chipset. The following was set up using DVE (the Digital Video Essentials DVD) plus the Mk1 Eyeball:

Mode: Standard
Backlight: 0
Picture: 90
Brightness: 57
Color: 47
Hue: G2
Color Temperature: Warm2
Sharpness 5
Noise Reduction: Off
MPEG Noise Reduction: Off
Black Correction: Off
Advanced CE: Low
Gamma: Off
Clear White: Off
Color Space: Wide
Live Color: Off

Some notes:

- Most SD looks at least adequate, some looks quite good. But we deliberately chose a 32" set to hide the worst defects of SD (viewing distance around 8').

- The colours are sometimes a little overcooked on some material; I may yet switch to Normal instead of Wide.

- Cinema and Normal seem to use different color decoders. I still need to do more work in this area.

- I watch in fairly low light. If you need a brighter picture, just push the backlight up a couple of notches and back Picture down to 80 (but that will not give you the deepest blacks this set can produce).

Have you noticed the ACE setting making a difference in the contrast at all?

There have been a number of discussions on the Cinemotion settings here and in the owners thread, with more than 400 postings so far. We have had observations, vague verbiage from Sony, a few facts, and lots of debate. I've been trying to organize some of the conclusions but haven't had enough time to do a thorough job. For the moment, though, since the subject continues to be "in play", here are a few summary points:

1. Initial preferences reported were mostly for Auto2, based on specific problems seen with Auto1. Some people preferred Auto1 for some types of films such as animation. (Owners thread)

2. Different sources may require different modes for optimization:
"Auto 1 inserts intermediate frames to reduce judder.... however in my experience it actually makes judder MUCH worse w/ 1080i/60hz material. IE what I suspect most U.S based people will run through the set.
With 1080p/24 or 1080i/50 ( Sky HD ) material it smooths out motion on pans significantly, particuarly when used in conjunction w/ Motionflow ( on Standard )." (CDJayRFU)
There is objective confirmation of this, but there are tradeoffs and not everyone agrees on them.

3. From the Sony oracle:
"Auto1 - For standard use and to provide smoother picture movement"
"Auto2 - picture movement will be similar to that of the original film. Motion Enhancer setting does not effect film-based content in Auto2 mode"
"For film-based content, set CineMotion to Auto1 to enjoy the full benefit of motionflow" (bishi)

"AUTO1: Has film compensation turned ON and works in conjunction with the Motion Enhancer setting. The CineMotion effect changes depending upon the setting of the Motion Enhancer.
AUTO2: Has film compensation turned ON and turns OFF the Motion Enhancer setting.
Again, same bottom line, place the setting where you think jitter is minimized and the moving images are most clear for you." (God_TM)


4. Based on the program source, here is a suggested heuristic:

• TV, 60hz movies/film, SD, internal tuner, set top boxes. (Info header shows anything but 1080p/24): Use Auto2.
  
• 24hz movies (Blu-Ray, HD DVD; header shows 1080p/24): Try Auto1 with Motion Enhancer on standard and high; see what you like.

5. Since it is inconvenient to change the cinemotion on the fly, based on your input configuration here is another possible heuristic:

• For sources going directly into XBR4, i.e. dedicated inputs:
• Set top boxes, OTA, SD DVD: use Auto2.
• Blu-Ray, HD DVD: Try keeping on Auto1, change ME as desired.
• For sources going into receiver, single input to XBR4:
• Use Auto2. If problems seen with 1024p/24 material, temporarily switch to Auto1.

6. Sony implies that the motion enhancer is active in Auto2 for non-film material. Don't have time to search the posts now; anyone have clear confirmation of this?

FWIW,
Pete

great job OLDPETE!!! Thanks for the clarification

Yes - on the 32" set the difference is very obvious. In Adobe Photoshop terms, it seems to add an "S-curve" (Google if you want details). Gamma is just, well, Gamma. You can use Gamma with ACE to fine-tune different sources. I really wish these commands were directly accessible via discrete remote codes.

As usual "Black Enhancer" means "Black Crusher". Seems like no modern TV is complete without some marketing-speak named control to trash all your shadow details.

OldPete, nice job.

Well done, Thx!

I will have to try out your setting once I get home, thanks for posting these!

Also, Can I ask which service did you use for the Pro calibration, and if you don't mind telling us how much did it cost you?

Thx again!

pheadland, tried your settings, they are good but for some reason the green is popping out to my eye, perhaps im not used to it. Would be grateful if you could try my cinema settings for the 32xbr4 and tell me what you think

Cinema
Backlight 2
Pic 60
Bright 37
Color 51
Hue 0
Temp Neutral

Sharp 5
NR and MPEG NR off
Black Off
Adv CE Med
Gamma Low
White Off
Color Space Wide
Live Color Med

The only problem with Auto2 is that it deactivates ME. So if you like to watch flim with ME then you can't use Auto2.

Auto1 with ME off should be the same thing as Auto2 with ME on, correct? Auto1 should also deactive Cinemotion for non-film based content. Therefore Auto1 with ME on standard should be the prefered setting for cable STB's. If that's producing an unatural picture then turn off ME. *confused*

I have the 42 XBR4 -- the following question pertains to SD only. I strongly prefer the "full" setting to the "wide zoom" setting, but when the setting is either full or normal, there is some noise in a thin sliver at the very top of the picture, almost like a snow screen, but a very narrow sliver of snow. Any thoughts on how to get rid of this?

What is your display area set to?

I like the FULL setting as well, but tonight while watching NBC HD, I got the silver band too. I had to set my display area to Normal instead of Full Pixel to get rid of it.

doesnt apply to my 32xbr4 sadly, but before i got that i had the samsung 32" 53h and it had a full pixel mode called "just scan" and on several of the hd channels it would have that same silver line at the top and depending on the advertisements in between the programs it would appear in those as well. Nothing wrong with the TV unless it is there constantly on every channel

Full pixel. I was going to try the screen position setting to get rid of it but it's not doing it now ...

Edited to add: just noticed it again, and indeed, switching from full pixel to normal gets rid of it, as does switching to a different wide mode. But neither of those are setting I want, and you can't adjust screen position in full pixel. Would love to hear if there is a workaround for this ...

Well, that's kind of disturbing, because it does seem to be there constantly on every SD channel, so long as it is set to "full pixel" and "full" wide mode.

Im not sure if full pixel is meant for SD channels, is it doing it on all of the hd channels? I only ever noticed it (rarely depending on the broadcast) on the networks fox,cbs,nbc, etc never on discovery, hbo, espn, etc

No, this is only SD, not HD. And, I just noticed that it is only when watching through the Tivo -- when watching directly through the cable and bypassing the Tivo, it doesn't happen.

Not familiar with Tivos unfortunately but I am sure there are some amazing folks on here that can help you with that. From what you said tho, it sounds like it is the Tivo unit.

I got an issue with progressive scan through component cable on the original Xbox.

For some reason when I have the xbox in either 480p or 720p there is like this double image and the screen is pretty blurry. The picture is actually fairly decent on 480i. I just can't figure why it would be doing that. I was expecting the PQ to be a lot more crisp in the progressive modes.

Anyone know if I can remedy this?

BTW I'm using a Madcatz adapter for the component cables.

Full pixel should be used when viewing Blu Ray or HD DVD programming.

Dear fellow XBR owners,

I am not much of aficionado or professional when it comes to t.v.'s and what the settings do, I just "flip back and forth left to right" and try to pinpoint the difference that some of the settings, to me, do to the picture. I've also read most of the post on the 71f and xbr4 as well as the 81f from the "ownership" to "vs" forum.

Blu-ray feed I run through an hdmi cable on my ps3, Dvd is also up-converted through my ps3. Hd channels i receive through an hdmi feed from my comcast hd/dvr box.

I've owned a 40" Sony S2000, sold it. I've owned a 32" samsung lns3241d, sold that; i've also owned the model before the 41d as well. Ive owned a 46xbr2, sold that. (not in that order) And now im a proud owner of a sony xbr4.

I just love this t.v. I've spent countless hours and gasoline visiting C.C., B.B., and other retail stores trying to compare the new breed of lcd's. And i have seen the rest and i declare the XBR the best lcd, but i do like the 71f also. I've owned this 46xbr4 for the past two weeks and since the very first day i have spent countless hours tweaking the picture, day in and day out trying to find that right balance of darks, grays, colors, and sharp picture.

This is what i have discovered about the xbr4.

"brightness" helps bring out the details with'in the blacks (if you want more contrast/detail in dark areas of the picture/movies etc. a 54+ setting is recommended)

"Noise" kind of blends/blurs the picture to give the picture a more smoother feel (my settings are always off/low this way it offers a crisper picture, whats the point of hi-def if its not "hi-def."

"mpeg" is similar to noise, but i'm not quit to sure about this setting..so yea. (this option i usually leave off, to me it kind of distorts the picture. How? i dont know, sorry)

"Drc Mode" is similar to the "detail" option or the "detail enhancer option" the higher the mode (mode 1, mode 2) the more detailed the picture quality becomes. This setting isnt good for jsut any feed. ("Mode 1" i suggest for 1080i cable/satellite, but if you have a good signal "mode 2" might work as well, but i usually just use it for video games.}

"Drc Pallet" is a very important function on the xbr4. Some people might not notice how this function affects the picture but it does tremendously. There is a "Reality" adjustment option as well as a "clarity" adjustment option. If you freeze frame a picture of a well lit face in a movie (matrix 3 when neo wakes up in the train station with the little girl above him) when you bring the reality option up past 55 you will notice more "pronunciation/detail" in Neo's face. But if you movie the clarity bar the the far right, the picture comes a little smoother. (adjust the image the way you see fit)

"Black Corrector" just makes "blacks" more black.

Advance "C.E." this option will emphasizes the position of the shadow that surrounds an object. It can make an object pop out more by over shadowing the picture ex: a circle, the more you shadow it with pencil the more it will look like a ball. (apply this to the face of the little girl that wakes neo up in the train station)

"Detail Enhancer" this option does like it sounds, it enhances the detail of the picture, but if you over do it on certain images it might distort the lines causing it to have a "vertical" affect. (Remember your t.v is a "high-def" tv so why turn it off all the way)

"Edge Enhancer" This option is also not to noticeable but on certain thin lines you will see the extra thickness it cakes on to the line. (this was also mentioned on sharpjunkies forum page)

"Motion Enhancer" and "CineMotion". Now this is almost like the 71f low/med/high.
(71f/off---xbr/M.E.off/C.M.off,)
(71f/low---xbr/M.E.standard/C.M.off)
(71f/med---xbr/M.E.standard/C.M.auto1 or M.E.high/C.M.Auto2)
(71f/high---xbr/M.E.High/C.M.auto1)

The other x.v. and so forth options i have not touched yet.

Well anyways thats just the basics from MY perspective. see how it suits you when you calibrate your xbr4 to its max potential. And here are my settings for Comcast HD and Blu-Ray

1080i Comcast cable feed (HDMI)

Picture Mode: Cinema
Backlight: 7
Picture: 72
Brightness: 59
Color: 56
Hue: 0
Color temp: Warm 1
Sharpness: 90
Noise reduction: off
MPEG noise reduction: off
DRC mode: Mode 1
DRC Pallet: 60/85, 50/60

Advanced Settings
Black corrector: Off
Advanced C.E: low
Gamma: high
Clear white: Off
Color space: Standard
Live color: Off
Detail enhancer: med
Edge enhancer: low

Blu_Ray(HDMI)

Picture Mode: cinema
Backlight: 8
Picture: 78
Brightness: 68
Color: 49
Hue: 0
Color temp: Warm 1
Sharpness: does'nt matter for blu ray
Noise reduction: off
MPEG noise reduction: off
DRC mode: off

Advanced Settings
Black corrector: low
Advanced C.E: med
Gamma: med
Clear white: Off
Color space: Standard
Live color: Off
Detail enhancer: med
Edge enhancer: low

White Balance Menu/ defualt

Screen menu
Wide Mode: Wide Zoom
Auto Wide: On
4:3 Default: auto
Display Area: Full Pixel

Video Options menu
Motion Enhancer: Standard/high
CineMotion: Auto 1
Game/Text mode: Off
Video/Photo Optimizer: Video
Video Color Space: default
Photo Color Space: defai;t
Color Matrix: Default
RGB Dynamic Range: default

The "sliver of noise" is actually information that's contained in the vertical interval of an NTSC signal, from lines 10 through 21 typically. There are test signals (VITS) sometimes time code data, Nielson watermarks for their people meters (line 19) closed captioning (line 21) XDS (also line 21 field 2). As content providers are required to include CC, you're not likely to be able to get rid of it.

Schlick

I think you mean VITC which stands for vertical interval timecode