Samsung 81 series lcd vs. 8g kuro - Page 3  

It's either Kuro... or that TV in that horrific picture you posted. I am actually ordering a Samsung now from Best Buy, then I'll check it out.

But yes, either or. Kuro I am favoring at the moment... because I've actually seen it and am already blown away.

Excellent!
I just read some guy saying 'a little glare' when talking about the 81 series....ROFL.
Oh this is going to be so entertaining with Greenland nailing them to the wall already.

here's one thing i'd like to compare the two on, but with my last tv 9my sony XBR2) i can only tell once i had it in my room and turned the lights off, it's hard to measure in store.

I've mentioned it several times already in other threads but i've noticed, at least with the one LCD i have owned that when i watch it with the lights off it's brightness suddenly gets a lot more glaring and i find it hard to watch, and my eyes cannot adjust as they used to on my old CRT (it would glare a bit at first but the feeling would eventually go away). In the end i had t oturn the light censor on which in the dark lowers the backlight to below manual levels and dims the set visually worse than anything else to make it veiwable.

Anyhow i dont know if other sets have this same issue, maybe it was the Fluorescent backlight (flueorescent lights in general arent fun to look at), and maybe the Samsung having LED's will solve this issue.

Anyhow, for someone familiar with the issue i'd be interested how the two compare (not really interested in a Kuro since i want 1080p, but for alot of intents in purposes i consider my plasma choice compared to the 40" 81f, the Panasonic 700u, to be equivicable to a kuro).

Anyways, from the posts I've read so far, it seems like the 81 series will have a reflective screen am I right?

BB/Mag should get the 81 series sometime this week or next week. Then the Kuro elites sometime in September, so everyone will be able to go and checkout the differences with that horrible directv feed.

I'm delighted to see this thread ... these are the sole contenders left on my shortlist.

We need real world feedback on LED Motion Plus and local dimming. The specs and theoretical articles are interesting but we all just really want to know whether these techniques are effectively implemented.

I enjoy reading these forums, and I'm glad that at least some of the contributors here are guys from the Kuro thread who I consider reliable sources for a non-fanboy evaluation.

If the pictures are not coming from the same camera, photographer and location, they are invaild as there are too many variables that come into play. Nice try sampo

They are also not even displaying the same pictures. Very strange that one has to resort to such deceptions. Looks like an act of desperation.

Also... when the hell are you going to shoot a 'flash' at your plasma TV while you're watching?

If a Kuro owner wants revenge... just do a glare test.

How far back do you sit? It sounds like your display isn't taking up enough of your vision and thus the bright light surrounded by so much darkness is straining your eyes. Try turning on a dim light behind the display.

Funny how all the pics being posted in the 81 series thread seem to go out of their way to minimize any reflection.
They better be careful...we plasma owners are very familiar with the pros and cons of plasma and the 81 series is the closest I've seen to a plasma.

actually to be fair alot of them had not initially, but people wouldnt SHUT UP about any hint of reflection (often not showing up any more than the plasmas in person), while pictures do help, i think the best glare test is to just probably look for yourself if you cant photo the same two tv's in the same exact environment so nothing else through the different cameras and places is a limiting factor.

otherwise though there's good reason that the 81 people started taking non refelction pictures of the TV, if they didnt people would just keep talking about it, especially considering it is easily possible to just avoid glare in the pictures, just as in real life anyway.

Oh, you mean like was done to every single plasma thread?
Did I mention power usage?
Sorry...but what goes around, comes around.

Oh no need to apologize, because it's no decent excuse, you still shouldnt start complaining that people are now posting shots to avoid a reflection (also showing its just as easily possible to do) for the sole reason because you wanted to further complain about it, using the excuse that it's "because they do it to us".

Oh, that was not an apology.
Why shouldn't I draw attention to it?
Seems you just want to sweep it under the rug...just like in the 81 series thread.

Edit: What is happening in the 81 series thread is pathetic. Total selective control of good and bad info.

Appreciate the thread. Perfect topic for me. It's a deathmatch between the LNT-5281 and the PDP-5010. I would guess this is going to be a pretty popular match up. If you're going to spend 5K on a tv, then you should definitely get to know these screens face to face, but I still like reading what other people are thinking. I also like real world scenarios. Blu ray and black rooms are great, but that's just a small part of my tv viewing.

And I'll throw out my concerns in deciding between the two. If someone can actually speak to them, all the better.

I definitely appreciate black levels and shadow details. I like sci-fi movies and space is in fact black (plasma has previously owned this area, but it would be great if the 81 came even close)

I also like a well lit screen regardless of room lighting. There is nothing like watching an HD football game on a sunday afternoon, and that's usually in a lit room with family and friends sitting at all angles to the tv. So I will be watching this tv in lit rooms, and I will be sitting at an angle.

I am admittedly intimidated by IR/Burn-in. Just don't like worrying about that sort of thing, but I really don't do the typical things to cause burn in. Not a big fan of break-in either, but I'll do what I have to. I don't play that many games and I don't watch Headline News for 10 hours straight, but I also don't like stretching 4:3

The last concern is what I like to refer to as "wife-friendly." She actually accepted the price, but I'll be getting "I told ya so's" for weeks if the TV is hard to use, difficult to calibrate, lots of screen glare, and makes SD episodes of "The Girls Next Door" look bad.

I can definitely notice motion-blur. Not a fan. I've come to expect it on the two LCDs I own AND the fact that digital cable is compressed and already does it's own macro-blocking on it's own.

What's a guy to do? FYI, I'm mostly watching Comcast SD/HD on SA8300HD. Playing Wii. Watching Blu ray once I get one.

I did see the 71 in BB yesterday. Great looking pic. The screen didn't seem that have a lot of glare on it, but the frame and bezel were more reflective than a black iPod.

It's a pretty close race. I was pretty set on LCD. I have to admit thought...every time I've ever seen a Pioneer plasma (going back 3 years now), the HD movie they're playing always seems to look really really good

And there's always the XBR4...and I would have money left over to buy a Blu ray.

Thanks if you made it through this post.

If you are looking at the the 5281 and the 5010. I am going to say at this point you could get the 5010 for $1000 less or more then the 5281 from a forum sponsor. That is something to consider as well.

Thanks for the info. I've seen a thread sponsor mentioned a couple of times on the Kuro thread. My issue is that part of the "wife-deal" would be that BB is offering 3 yrs no interest and I (believe it or not) am a big fan of there 4-yr replacement plan. Through the replacement plan, I've only had to spend a couple hundred every 3 yrs, because both tv's starting having some problems after 3 yrs.

However, at $1000 less, that might be justifiable.

Anybody have any non-price related preferences between the 8G and the 81?

There is a good owner feedback thread about the Pioneer Kuro Plasmas on the Plasma forum. There is also a very good thread that is dedicated to compiling Professional test reports and reviews, with many rave reviews already in from several technical publications.

Since the Samsung 81 is just now hitting the market, it will take a while to compile a similar knowledge base in them. Here is a link to a thread on the LCD forum that provides the first knowledgeable owner feedback, does a side by side comparison of the 81 versus the 71, and provides a series of pictures.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=897543

No one wants to sweep it under the rug, but no one's dumb enough to not know. As you even said, i'm sure people dont bother taking giant reflection images of plasmas anymore and debating it, so dont complain about people now avoiding it with this set, an LCD user/set is just as excused from this issue as the much accepted plasma one is.

you're being way too antagonistic, calling the situation "pathetic", people just want to move on from the issue now that it has been established, just as i'm sure people have moved on from plasmas being reflective and can now go to the store and judge that feature and how much it bothers them with their own eyes, not the quick glint of a camera and a bad positioning you cannot controll or see.

First and last warning: trolling threads will result in suspensions.

Please do not force me to do that.

Challenge the post not the poster!

Thanks all

I posted this in another thread, but was asked to post it here too. So this is my observation today of the 46" 81 series Samsung:

Well I just came back from viewing the Samsung 4681 at BB in Commack N.Y. in the Magnolia section. (if anyone in that area is interested).

Within that same area was a 60" 7g Pioneer and a 50" 8g (non-Elite) Pioneer. I used these as my reference points. This was the same store I first saw the 8g Pioneer Pro 950. It's a good location since their ambient lighting is quite low and does give you some idea of black levels.

Playing was the typical BB loop, nothing unusual. Here are my observations:

Adjustments- First I was surprised that I DID have access to the gains & cuts with the Standard mode which was the mode I used. I thought that was just available in the Movie mode. Good thing becasue the Movie mode was way too tame for me even with contrast cranked way up. In fact, in terms of whites, you proably wouldn't know it's an LCD when in Movie mode...for some that could be a good thing. I set noise reduction to off in all cases but later experimented with them in the 'on' position. I did a rough gray scale adjustment, but Warm 1 was pretty close and didn't need a ton of adjustment to my eye. I did not calibrate any other TV, just the Sammy. I tried various positions of the black level adjustments too as I watched actual material.

LED Demo- I could easily see that no matter what setting you used, when you hit the 'demo' it went into it's Dynamic mode. Yowser, talk about torch mode. I didn't think the demo was a reaslistic representation of anything, but I was curious.

Black Levels- Very interesting and I must give D-Nice credit here since I think he nailed it. There is no question that this panel can produce a black or, under the conditions I viewed it, certainly what appears to be a black when the entire screen FADES to black. Is it blacker than the 8g Pioneers with a fade to black? Hard to tell, but it's probably close, maybe a bit better or a bit worse, I really couldn't make that assessment. But here's the rub and IMO, it's a big rub. In the lower light registers, when things get overall dim, the more typical LCD muddiness sets in. No, it's not as bad as other LCDs, but I sure as heck saw it. Using the Pioneers as a reference, there was no comparison. There was none of the muddiness with the 8g Pioneer and even the 7g Pioneer looked better in this respect. Detail was simply missing in the Samsung that was very obvious in the Pioneers. So yes, it appears it can do black, but it can not do the lower registers of the light scale, where detail is present, as well as the new Pioneers...or for that matter the 7g Pioneers. I tried engaging and disengaging the black enhancements to see if they were impacting low level detail, but no matter what I did I could not get the detail in the lower registers.

Color- I set the color to 'wide' and again, whether it was due to the black levels in the lower registers or not, I simply could not achieve the depth of color, the saturation and the overall picture depth as the reference Pioneers. Trust me, this was not bias, it was simple observation. I really did try to improve upon this overall depth, but no matter what I did, I could not match the Pioneers.

Whites- No question the Samsung has the eye-searing whites that is typical of LCDs. For me this was never a selling point since a properly adjusted display should never be this bright. Interestingly, as I pointed out at the beginning, in the Movie mode the Pioneer actually had whiter whites than the Samsung. So once you set the display to the proper values, this blinding white becomes less of a comparison point. Anyone that's ever gone into a professional network studio will know what I'm talking about. You will never ever see contrast set so high so as to have whites super bright.

Noise- I don't know why, but I saw considerably more noise on the Samsung then most of the panels in the area. The Sharp LCDs exhibited less noise than the Samsung and the Pioneers were the smoothest and most noise-free.

Overall Picture Quality- I could certainly see the selling point with the new Samsung, brilliant whites for those that like that, and the ability to go to black under certain circumstances. But for me, the failing of low level detail together with a pictrue depth that simply didn't approach that of the Pioneers I was using as a reference point, made this display a disappointment. Beyond getting to that nice black on a fade to black, I didn't see a whole lot of value in the local area LEDs. Sure it gives you a nice CR to tout, but under real world conditions it's simply another inflated manufacturer's spec.

Of course others will have different opinions, but this was how I saw it with remote in hand.

"Whites- No question the Samsung has the eye-searing whites that is typical of LCDs. For me this was never a selling point since a properly adjusted display should never be this bright. Interestingly, as I pointed out at the beginning, in the Movie mode the Pioneer actually had whiter whites than the Samsung. So once you set the display to the proper values, this blinding white becomes less of a comparison point. Anyone that's ever gone into a professional network studio will know what I'm talking about. You will never ever see contrast set so high so as to have whites super bright."

thats something i was interested to hear about actually, since it was the eye searing whites on my XBR2 that made it very hard to watch in the dark, i thought that the LED's replacing the Fluorescent would help that, but it hasnt?

All i know is the brightness bragging and pop seemed well and good but i too would probably lower the brightness a bit, to be honest i always felt like at some point it was looking dimmer than it should have had but the glare was still overpowering, do the Pioneers/Plasmas in general (since i'm looking for a 40" display and i think that i'd rather have the 1080p panasonic if i went plasma) not have that eye searing issue due to their lack of comparative brightness, or can they too glare in the dark?

Interestingly enough....the latest pics in that thread show almost no reflection or glare on the 81's. Not sure what is going on here but something is rotten in Denmark.
Are you not getting one today? It will be interesting to see what is going on here.

Spincut, certainly not compared to any LCD of this era! To my eyes the Pioneer plasma whites are white without any eye fatigue and I love to watch in total darkness. But everyone has different levels of tolerance to eye fatigue, so I can't tell you 100% you'll be fine. What I can tell you 100%, is that the Pioneers and plasmas in general will be easier on the eye than a typical LCD that has not been greatly tamed.

Well, if Samsung can not make an LCD panel perform like a Phosphors panel, and in reality that is what it is all about, then perhaps it is just not attainable. There is probably a very good reason why Phosphor based displays have survived against all other forms of competition. LCD panels are terrific as computer monitors etc, but most likely they just can not ever rule the TV display roost. You can only trick up the LCD functions so many different ways, to try and achive Phospor response level blacks, and smooth motion results etc, without having the competing tricks toss up just as many other undesirable side effects. Treating LCD for one defect may just create others, much like some patients who are given a drug for to control their diabetes, often finish up getting a heart attack triggered by the prescribed cure.

If is probably no coincidence that so many people had put their hopes into the now deceased Canon flat panel project. It was based on using phosphors to produce the best, and most realistic HDTV imagery.

I think that I will go the Phosphors route for TV, and LCD for PC Monitor, except I am not about to pay three grand for a forty inch monitor. I can live with a good CCFL Monitor, without spending a fortune on it.

Most likely we will have to wait for the rise of an Organic approach to see the next strong challenge to the long ruling phosphor.

The guy who posted those pix is a 'master' (or so he thinks) at deception. Anyone that's seen or owns a Kuro knows very well they have never seen mushy, washed out pictures like that.

I just got back from work. We had just put up the 5281. First off, before it was even put up...that thing was reflecting like a mirror. It did not seem to have any type of any glare screen at all. It was put at a spot away from most of the other tv, but after some adjustments, I've gotta say the blacks are hella dark.

I say it's a good tv, BUT, it did not impress everyone at work like the Pioneer does. We haven't put up the 1080p Pioneers yet. It looks just like a plasma, but I have to wait until the pro110fd comes in to say which one is better. So far though, I just have to say it did not capture the general consumer like the Pioneers have done.

(we usually get a good amount of traffic that will always stop and watch the Pioneer Elites for half a minute to a minute. )

The 100,000 contrast ratio did not seem any better than the 1150 though I've got to say, I'll do a more thorough comparison tomorrow when I go to work.

The experience what I've seen is what your used too. If you have a plasma there going to impress you more. Same with LCD if thats what you own, your used to it more than what a plasma looks like.

I saw the new Pio's 5010 and 6010 and the Sammy 5271 and the 52XBR all side by side on Sunday. The Pio's have a new look to them. There very smooth looking but what I didn't like there darker than past models. Seem to me the colors aren't as vibrant. The Pio 5080 looks better to me.

When it comes to TV's its what you prefer, not what everyone else likes. The 52XBR was head and shoulders above all the rest for me.

Did you check to see if picture settings were the same? I saw the 5010 today but this BB didn't redesign their store and they were in opposite aisles and playing different loops so I couldn't compare. D-nice said the 1080p models will have slightly less light output and slightly deeper blacks so maybe this is a tradeoff.