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Official Samsung LNT-xx71f Owners Thread - Page 871

post #26101 of 28843
4/30/08 at 6:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

My tech called today and said that they did some research and a new mainboard would not fix my issues (imagine that). They said the blur, crappy PQ, etc., when AMP is off is "working as intended", and a new mainboard would not fix the stutter, so there is nothing they can do, but according to Samsung, my tv is "working as intended". I called Samsung and was transferred to ECR, then to Tech 2, then back to ECR, and long story short, after telling them that I bought this tv because as it was advertised in the showrooms, AMP is supposed to work with everything, but has issues with EVERYTHING. So I paid a premium for a feature that is useless. I told them I wanted my money back or a 650, NOT ANOTHER 71, or if they preferred to go to court (as they are in violation of their warranty), I would be happy to oblige. She put in a request for review for a replacement, and said I should hear back in 48-72 hours........but I aint expecting miracles. I am thinking more and more that we will have to go to court, as they seem to think that all these issues are "working as intended". The way I read that statement is "we deliberately missrepresented our product in order to get sales, and you can go screw yourself".

They are able to give you any TV they want from the distribution center or your money back. You just have to be persistent. Maybe you could get your money back and buy a 650 for 1999 on Big River.
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post #26102 of 28843
4/30/08 at 7:04am
Just for the heck of it I turned AMP off (previously on HIGH for the last 2 weeks) last night. I was watching a slightly less exciting HOUSE that exhibited a good amount of judder or stutter....I had turned it off to review the Video Essentials HDBasics blu ray disc (no issues there:=).

I have to wonder "did I get lucky" or was this the apex of the run?

ARE there any owners out there with a 2002/OCT07 build who are happy with their set?
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post #26103 of 28843
4/30/08 at 7:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambone View Post

I have another TV but it's not practical hooking it up with the same cables.

I don't see it when I'm playing my 360 or PS3. When I watch Blurays/regular DVD's on my PS3, I don't see it either. I don't even see it on all Standard-definition programming. I NEVER see it while watching any HD content, no matter what it is.

Where is this white line in the picture?

Does it happen on the same channels and same programming or is it completely random?

It really sounds like a source issue, maybe the particular programs or channel have issues. If BD and SD DVDs from your PS3 are fine, chances are you set is fine. The issue is either in your STB or broadcaster.
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post #26104 of 28843
4/30/08 at 7:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrovy View Post

We also turned AMP off, along with the Sony's de-judder processing, and switched our PS3 to 1080p/24 mode. We really couldn't tell the difference between 1080p/24 and 1080p/60 on either of the sets, so we suspect they don't perform the perfect 5x conversion from 24 frames to 120. Samsung's engineers (along with Sony's) claim the 52LN650 can perform this conversion, but if so, it doesn't make much difference."

Still not sure if the Sam does proper 5:5 pulldown!

Thanks for snipping that artical petrovy, I'm too lazy to read CNET reviews. This is the interesting line I got out of it. It sounds like they're saying "we don't really know what 5:5 is supposed to look like".

The take aways are:
1. Don't trust CNET to confirm 5:5
2. There is no noticeable benefit of having a 24Hz capable source over a 60Hz capable source

Remember that long discussion a while ago about 5:5 and AMP? It was pretty much concluded that the Trident processor is going to make sure all input sources are converted to 60i then fed that to the Micronas processor. It would then be up to the Micronas to perform the necessary conversions, inverse telecine, de-interlacing and such. I can't see the 650/750 being much different in that regards. Basically CNET set the player to 60p hoping that would preserve 3:2 pulldown at the display but that might be a false assumption. They may have been comparing 5:5 from a 60p source to 5:5 from a 24p source which should look the same. The test should have been conducted in Game Mode OR with a 60Hz TV to compare to 3:2. Although Game Mode might still do the inverse telecine...

Because remember: "Turning AMP off DOES NOT turn off the 120hz on the TV. So even with AMP off the TV is still way better then a 60hz TV"
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post #26105 of 28843
4/30/08 at 8:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

If I recall, it is the Trident LX, at a whopping 167Mhz. In comparison, the Toshiba 120hz sets use a 333Mhz processor,,,,,or twice as fast.

The Micronas processor does the AMP processing so the Trident doesn't make a lick of difference when talking about TBE, vapour and probably stutter.

TBE and vapours are algorithm issues. Running the algorithm as is on a faster processor will just recreate TBE faster. You could argue that the specs for the processor were set then the algorithm was designed to function within those parameters and had they used a faster processor maybe the algorithm would have been designed differently and not have the TBE artifact. You would have to talk to the designers though and find out what their constraint was.
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post #26106 of 28843
4/30/08 at 8:37am
Update:

Called back today about the replacement request once again. And as expected, I was given the same answer as usual that they didn't have a decision yet, spoke to Debbie at ECR. So I told her everything that happened since the beginning, then I told her that I've been waiting for a decision since last monday, and they told me it would only take between 24-48 hrs, and it's been 10 days, in which they don't even give me a reason, all they say is to wait longer. I then told her that a friend of mine, who had the exact same problem, with the exact same television, and they even made the replacement request "after" I did, and they were already approved to have a replacement with a newer model tv.
So she apologized of course, and she told me that the case had already been assigned to someone in particular, and that she was going to add some notes to the report about everything I told her, and she was going to send them to the person who was assigned to my case, so it can hopefully help them come to a decision already.

Same stuff different day, so let's see.
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post #26107 of 28843
4/30/08 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenFly View Post

Just for the heck of it I turned AMP off (previously on HIGH for the last 2 weeks) last night. I was watching a slightly less exciting HOUSE that exhibited a good amount of judder or stutter....I had turned it off to review the Video Essentials HDBasics blu ray disc (no issues there:=).

I have to wonder "did I get lucky" or was this the apex of the run?

ARE there any owners out there with a 2002/OCT07 build who are happy with their set?

+1 here. Here is the list of Oct 07 builds from my FW DS (linked in my sig)

kjgarrison (UPGRD)
ktronis - 2B REPAIRED -1010
Levi25 (UPGRD)
onund
richnanaimo
Squigs (UPGRD)
TiVoHD (UPGRD) *** 2B REPAIRED
tkishel - 2000.1
ZenFly

UPGRD means FW upgraded to 2004
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post #26108 of 28843
4/30/08 at 9:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

Yeah, the 71 was being closed out at the BB I was at. I believe the price was $2,799 for the 52". Funny thing, the 650 was only $100 more.

and I think 71 is also the same price.
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post #26109 of 28843
4/30/08 at 10:12am
Im still waiting on an ECR decision. I went to CC to see the 650, in order to see what Samsung would most likely be replacing my 71 with. it was playing bluray -Night at the museum. It honestly was nothing special . It seems to be less well built, and even easier to scratch. it juts did not have the regal look lof the 71. damn. It looked toyish in comparison. and we all know our 71 is not built like no xbr4, i cant believe they made it even cheaper built. Even the side stickers were haphazardly placed. WTF- get some pride!

Anyway, Im thinking I may just stick with my 71. Im afraid i might actually be getting a lesser TV just to prove a point to Samsung. I mean, who is the real loser at the point, not samsung for sure.

Also, with the energy saving feature set to AUTO, it says it adjusts as per environment, doers this mean that it has some some of eye to test for lighting in the room? I could not seem to get it to do anything automaticaly. Does it do more than just lower the backlight?
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post #26110 of 28843
4/30/08 at 10:17am
Has anyone ever had their board changed on a 1013? I've called samsung and they said a service tech will most likely change my board to fix studder and tbe.
Has anyone neen through this? Does the tech take the TV away to have this done?
Thanks.
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post #26111 of 28843
4/30/08 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dEEahn20 View Post

Interesting indeed. I saw the 750 in person for the first time this monday. I couldn't tell which was better in terms of pq but I will say that I did not like the bezel, at all. From pictures I liked the 750 better than the 650 but now I don't know. IMO, they are both ugly and pale in comparison to the 71 cosmetically. I know this is subjective, but the more I see newer sets the more I like the look of the 71 and would surely miss it if I were to get it replaced. Why can't they just fix AMP on our beautiful 71s!!!!!


+1.... i thought the same thing.
they are starting to look like toys
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post #26112 of 28843
4/30/08 at 11:00am
I have an idea.

Some people here can live with their 71 because they are afraid of getting a cheaply made, or lesser quality screen from samsung as a replacement.

I could probably live with turning AMP off for football games and lowering it to avoid stutter and other problems when watching movies.

What I can't live with is knowing I spent extra for this feature and it is not working for me.

I also like the build of the 71f TV and ever since I got my replacement 4071F, I have been very pleased with the picture quality.

Instead of asking Samsung for a replacement set, why don't we ask for a partial refund and keep the current set?

I think a fair value for AMP would be 25% of the cost of the TV. What does everyone else think? Would you take this option if Samsung gave it to you? Do you think they would offer it to begin with? If you add up the shipping costs to send a relacement to us, and then ship ors back, we may already be at that price.
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post #26113 of 28843
4/30/08 at 11:07am
count me in darth. also- does anybody know how the tv works in the AUTO setting for energy saving? does it have an eye or something?
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post #26114 of 28843
4/30/08 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by onund View Post

+1 here. Here is the list of Oct 07 builds from my FW DS (linked in my sig)

kjgarrison (UPGRD)
ktronis - 2B REPAIRED -1010
Levi25 (UPGRD)
onund
richnanaimo
Squigs (UPGRD)
TiVoHD (UPGRD) *** 2B REPAIRED
tkishel - 2000.1
ZenFly

UPGRD means FW upgraded to 2004

I have a 2002 November 4071. It works as advertised. No stutter. Very little TBE, or vapor trails. Of course, I leave AMP on low or off all the time. I also use the built-in QAM tuner. NO DVR/STB.
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post #26115 of 28843
4/30/08 at 11:24am
I spoke to some one at the Scott + Scott law firm yesterday.
He will be looking over this thred and see how many people are unhappy with Samsung's defective AMP product. I will follow up with anything I hear.

I was finally able to speak to a "Senior negotiator" who set me up with a LN46A650 for replacement. I then recieved a call from an woman who works with the head of the customer service in NJ.I was able to negotiate an upgrade to a LN52A650 for $300. I am now waiting for delivery.

Anybody waiting an exchange can go to www.kwinternational.com and put in their transaction# for tracking results.

Here is a contact that might help out anyone with exchange problems.
Bob Weis - Head of Cust. Svc.
973-601-6011

I had filed a complaint with the Consumer Affairs - Bureau of Electronic and Appliance Repair. This morning a nice woman called me regarding the complaint. She will check back with me later this month once I have used the replacement.

The Consumer Affairs will help out any consumer with similar problems as I have been going through. She says the Consumer Affairs can't demand Samsung do anything specific, but she is paid by the State to confrence call with Samsung and help negotiate a fair resolution. They can even demand the request for Samsung's records. When you file a complaint it sticks on Samsung's records for 3 years. EVERYONE who has been experience problems with Samsung, I urge you to all file a complaint on the Consumer Affairs website. http://www.bear.ca.gov/. You should choose the NJ Consumer Affairs office as Samsung is located in that state.

I cant believe how much time I have spent on the phone speaking to Samsung. Really, so I could get a feature that is apparently defective to work. I will follow up with any information I come across and how the new LN52A650 works once I receive it.
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post #26116 of 28843
4/30/08 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by onund View Post

+1 here. Here is the list of Oct 07 builds from my FW DS (linked in my sig)

kjgarrison (UPGRD)
ktronis - 2B REPAIRED -1010
Levi25 (UPGRD)
onund
richnanaimo
Squigs (UPGRD)
TiVoHD (UPGRD) *** 2B REPAIRED
tkishel - 2000.1
ZenFly

UPGRD means FW upgraded to 2004

Im a hapy Oct build owner as well. I use AMP low or High almost all the time.
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post #26117 of 28843
4/30/08 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by versace View Post

I bought a 46A750 to hold me over until next week when they replace the board on my 4671...and to be honest - I find the picture to be less impressing. The triple ball effect is lessened - how I tested this was turning AMP on high, loading Halo 3 and going to Sand Trap and turning 360 degrees constantly - on my 71 I saw three cross hairs most of the rotation, now I barley see double - they seem to have helped that end of it. But I still strongly believe they have downgraded there panel to 8 bit - . this TV doesn't even after playing with the settings have the same vibrance as my first gen SQ01 71 I will put them side by side next week when my 71 is fixed. This isn't to say I wouldn't take a 7 series if I was experiencing as bad a problem as you guys with yours, but given my overall acceptable experience 71 status over the past 6 months, I would keep my 71 over a 750.

Thats exactly what CNet should have done.
Since CNet has deemed AMP as an essentially useless feature, on both the 71 and the 650...it would be very interesting to have the PQ of these sets compared with AMP set to OFF.
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post #26118 of 28843
4/30/08 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

You trade off a little bit of blur for TBE using AMP with sports. AMP low is actually the best for sports now, which rarely or slightly produces TBE, but that same AMP low in videogames will still give TBE. Go figure.

It would have been smart for Samsung to just offer the fully adjustable 32 settings of AMP (like in the 650's service menu) in the tv menu, that way people who really are sensitive to TBE can just turn it way down, and those who want the 30 to 60fps effect of it can crank it to max. Is that so difficult for them? Did they not think of this?

Ha...that may be doable for the crazy videoheads on this forum....but regular people (the masses) would get totally screwed up
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post #26119 of 28843
4/30/08 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthAVS View Post

I have an idea.

Some people here can live with their 71 because they are afraid of getting a cheaply made, or lesser quality screen from samsung as a replacement.

I could probably live with turning AMP off for football games and lowering it to avoid stutter and other problems when watching movies.

What I can't live with is knowing I spent extra for this feature and it is not working for me.

I also like the build of the 71f TV and ever since I got my replacement 4071F, I have been very pleased with the picture quality.

Instead of asking Samsung for a replacement set, why don't we ask for a partial refund and keep the current set?

I think a fair value for AMP would be 25% of the cost of the TV. What does everyone else think? Would you take this option if Samsung gave it to you? Do you think they would offer it to begin with? If you add up the shipping costs to send a relacement to us, and then ship ors back, we may already be at that price.

Not me. I would only take a 1080p Plasma for a replacement. I ONLY bought this tv over a plasma for the amp feature...
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post #26120 of 28843
4/30/08 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by froader View Post

I spoke to some one at the Scott + Scott law firm yesterday.
He will be looking over this thred and see how many people are unhappy with Samsung's defective AMP product. I will follow up with anything I hear.

I was finally able to speak to a "Senior negotiator" who set me up with a LN46A650 for replacement. I then recieved a call from an woman who works with the head of the customer service in NJ.I was able to negotiate an upgrade to a LN52A650 for $300. I am now waiting for delivery.

Anybody waiting an exchange can go to www.kwinternational.com and put in their transaction# for tracking results.

Here is a contact that might help out anyone with exchange problems.
Bob Weis - Head of Cust. Svc.
973-601-6011

I had filed a complaint with the BBB - Bureau of Electronic and Appliance Repair. This morning a nice woman called me regarding the complaint. She will check back with me later this month once I have used the replacement.

The BBB will help out any consumer with similar problems as I have been going through. She says the BBB can't demand Samsung do anything specific, but she is paid by the State to confrence call with Samsung and help negotiate a fair resolution. They can even demand the request for Samsung's records. When you file a complaint it sticks on Samsung's records for 3 years. EVERYONE who has been experience problems with Samsung, I urge you to all file a complaint on the BBB website. http://www.bear.ca.gov/. You should choose the NJ BBB office as Samsung is located in that state.

I cant believe how much time I have spent on the phone speaking to Samsung. Really, so I could get a feature that is apparently defective to work. I will follow up with any information I come across and how the new LN52A650 works once I receive it.

I can't believe you paid 300 bucks for an upgrade....tha's not negotiating, that's just bending over
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post #26121 of 28843
4/30/08 at 12:14pm
actually stilletto has a point
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post #26122 of 28843
4/30/08 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by clau View Post

I have a 2002 November 4071. It works as advertised. No stutter. Very little TBE, or vapor trails. Of course, I leave AMP on low or off all the time. I also use the built-in QAM tuner. NO DVR/STB.

I know you are a big proponent of the internal QAM tuner. One nice thing about the QAM tuner is it lets me take advantage of the crippled PiP. My wife can watch her random TLC shows and I can play some Wii with PiP split screen and we're both happy. Of course I'm only happy because the Wii is crippled in video resolution.
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post #26123 of 28843
4/30/08 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dEEahn20 View Post

Interesting indeed. I saw the 750 in person for the first time this monday. I couldn't tell which was better in terms of pq but I will say that I did not like the bezel, at all. From pictures I liked the 750 better than the 650 but now I don't know. IMO, they are both ugly and pale in comparison to the 71 cosmetically. I know this is subjective, but the more I see newer sets the more I like the look of the 71 and would surely miss it if I were to get it replaced. Why can't they just fix AMP on our beautiful 71s!!!!!

Ahhh...if only But alas...it seems that it will never be
At least my set still looks spectacular when OFF....and that blue sex light ON....gently reflecting on to my black glass cart....priceless
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post #26124 of 28843
4/30/08 at 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiolover718 View Post

Im still waiting on an ECR decision. I went to CC to see the 650, in order to see what Samsung would most likely be replacing my 71 with. it was playing bluray -Night at the museum. It honestly was nothing special . It seems to be less well built, and even easier to scratch. it juts did not have the regal look lof the 71. damn. It looked toyish in comparison. and we all know our 71 is not built like no xbr4, i cant believe they made it even cheaper built. Even the side stickers were haphazardly placed. WTF- get some pride! .....................
Also, with the energy saving feature set to AUTO, it says it adjusts as per environment, doers this mean that it has some some of eye to test for lighting in the room? I could not seem to get it to do anything automaticaly. Does it do more than just lower the backlight?

Unlike the previous Sharp D92 that I had, the Sam71 does NOT have a room sensor light to automatically sense and lower the BL level...it does the backlight reduction by internally sensing the brightness of the scene..or so thats what the manual states.
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post #26125 of 28843
4/30/08 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stilletto View Post

I can't believe you paid 300 bucks for an upgrade....tha's not negotiating, that's just bending over

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiolover718 View Post

actually stilletto has a point

That $300 is for uping to the 52" from the 46" they would have given him.....how is that a bad offer?
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post #26126 of 28843
4/30/08 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrovy View Post

That $300 is for uping to the 52" from the 46" they would have given him.....how is that a bad offer?

Ok, missed that little tidbit there, but I am still wondering why anyone who after going through this long, painful, dissapointing ordeal with samsung would ever send them MORE money no matter what boat anchor they were thinking about giving him....
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post #26127 of 28843
4/30/08 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stilletto View Post

Not me. I would only take a 1080p Plasma for a replacement. I ONLY bought this tv over a plasma for the amp feature...

That's me exactly. I ALMOST went out the door with a Panny Plasma, 50" for the same price as my 46" Sammy LCD, but changed my mind when I saw the 4671 in action. I asked this same question before: "Why not exchange for a Sammy plasma", but nobody gave any comment.
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post #26128 of 28843
4/30/08 at 1:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stilletto View Post

I can't believe you paid 300 bucks for an upgrade....tha's not negotiating, that's just bending over

Stilletto - Would you like to step outside and handle this?

Well I suppose I can give you a break, because you rode the short bus to school.


By the way somehow Samsung tried to originally tell me it would be $900. Dont know how they figured that.
$300 is the difference from the 46-52. I know 1/2 of that would be better. I am coming from a LNT4669.
But, I sure will be liking the LN5A650. Hopefully no more TBE
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post #26129 of 28843
4/30/08 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by froader View Post

Stilletto - Would you like to step outside and handle this?

Most definitely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by froader View Post

Well I suppose I can give you a break, because you rode the short bus to school.

Did you actually say this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by froader View Post

By the way somehow Samsung tried to originally tell me it would be $900. Dont know how they figured that.
$300 is the difference from the 46-52. I know 1/2 of that would be better. I am coming from a LNT4669.
But, I sure will be liking the LN5A650. Hopefully no more TBE

I still think that anyone who "negotiates" by giving Samsung more money for any kind of fix is nuts. What on earth makes you think that they will stand behind the 650?
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post #26130 of 28843
4/30/08 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by froader View Post

I spoke to some one at the Scott + Scott law firm yesterday.
He will be looking over this thred and see how many people are unhappy with Samsung's defective AMP product. I will follow up with anything I hear.

I was finally able to speak to a "Senior negotiator" who set me up with a LN46A650 for replacement. I then recieved a call from an woman who works with the head of the customer service in NJ.I was able to negotiate an upgrade to a LN52A650 for $300. I am now waiting for delivery.

Anybody waiting an exchange can go to www.kwinternational.com and put in their transaction# for tracking results.

Here is a contact that might help out anyone with exchange problems.
Bob Weis - Head of Cust. Svc.
973-601-6011

I had filed a complaint with the Consumer Affairs - Bureau of Electronic and Appliance Repair. This morning a nice woman called me regarding the complaint. She will check back with me later this month once I have used the replacement.

The Consumer Affairs will help out any consumer with similar problems as I have been going through. She says the Consumer Affairs can't demand Samsung do anything specific, but she is paid by the State to confrence call with Samsung and help negotiate a fair resolution. They can even demand the request for Samsung's records. When you file a complaint it sticks on Samsung's records for 3 years. EVERYONE who has been experience problems with Samsung, I urge you to all file a complaint on the Consumer Affairs website. http://www.bear.ca.gov/. You should choose the NJ Consumer Affairs office as Samsung is located in that state.

I cant believe how much time I have spent on the phone speaking to Samsung. Really, so I could get a feature that is apparently defective to work. I will follow up with any information I come across and how the new LN52A650 works once I receive it.

Nice. Great work and thanks for the info. Let's all start filing official complaints. One thing, I believe once you get your 650 you will be taken out of the class but I'm sure you don't mind as long as you get a working set.
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