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Why dual format is good... (a Dennis Miller-esque rant)

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
I'm glad to see that a bunch of you think the Paramount announcement was good news.

Being format neutral (in spirit, I only own an A1 until the Sammy ships -- I have no problem with Blu, just not a fan of the early players), this is about the best possible decision.

I don't mean to criticize, but anyone advocating a "side" in the format war is thinking solely about themselves. Several hundred million dollars has been spent by consumers on either side acquiring content and players (Tosh/Sony isn't about to buy everyone out who got the short end of the stick). Do you really need a single color media shelf so badly that that you'd be perfectly fine hosing some other guy for a few grand?

The only drawback for single-format consumers is they eventually need a second player. But who are they kidding? Early adopters go through technology like hot cakes... Most would have probably bought a new player in a year or two, so this is really no great loss for people thinking they'd only need a single format (except the replacement will almost certainly be dual).

Paramount did the best possible thing because it will ensure that neither format goes anywhere. Perhaps widespread public adoption just got pushed a year further off (so what?), but eventually all the non-vested CE companies will have to support both (technically speaking it isn't that difficult). From a studio perspective selecting a single format is obviously best. They'll never hit their economies of scale (on slow selling catalog titles) if they have to do multiple masters with incompatible interactive features. Or we would be back in the "Superbit" days where a studio would use a marketing campaign to try to convince everyone it's better that they didn't spend any money on nice menus and special features.

From a consumer perspective, competing formats might be frustrating, but competition is *always* best. We'd be lucky to find any player under a thousand dollars by now if there were only one format (DVD was 2.5 years before it was "cheap"). Without competition we'd probably have $40 media as the standard. I would rather have a red shelf and a blue shelf at $20 each than the alternative. I'm quickly going to bridge the price gap for the Sammy when I'm saving $15-20 per disc.

I don't understand how industry insiders like "Bill Hunt" seem to think that my point of view is crazy. Talk about needing a reality check -- what sane person rags on a fellow film buff because of their hardware investment? I love movies, but I also love not blowing a few grand on a failed format. I'd rather hedge with both than lose one.

Now the big question, how many of you agree, and am I now persona non grata in the HD and Blu forums?
post #2 of 16
I agree 100%.
post #3 of 16
You might be persona non grata in both if you keep talking sense, as many others have found out.

One point, though. We are now two years into HDM and too many players are still pushing $1000. I'm not sure the format war has done much to lower prices, overall, and I think it may have hurt overall player introduction. We can only hope that someone is working overtime on developing affordable dual-format options. I can't see HDM surviving past niche status if things are still up in the air by this time next year and I see dual-format players as the only real solution without an outright death of one of the formats.

Doug

Doug
post #4 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taperwood View Post

We can only hope that someone is working overtime on developing affordable dual-format options.

Well, the good thing is that LG and Sammy are more than likely here to stay. The first release is the doozy, but future players will have iterative versions of the OS so it's fairly easy to keep going once they've started. The only question is how much R&D they try to recoup from the first generation, or if they are willing to amortize the cost over the coming years. I'm hoping the initial LG and Sammy prices mean that version 2 will be in the range of $500-700 (I'm surprised LG didn't announce a second gen unit for the holidays).

I'm thinking Christmas of 08 is going to be the year of HD. This year seems too soon unless China blows the floor out from under the existing pricing.
post #5 of 16
Good post OP.
But Dennis Miller-esque? Where's the humor and obscure references?
post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by UTV2TiVo View Post

Good post OP.
But Dennis Miller-esque? Where's the humor and obscure references?

It seemed more original than calling it a rant. Next time I'll say something like "single-format supporters rank about a 9 on Moh's hardness scale for sheer stubborness" or "I haven't seen somoene get so red in the face since the last time Tammie Fae tried on a new shade of blush" (with all due respect to the recently departed).

If you need more I'm sure I could work in Imelda Marcos' shoe collection. Or perhaps old movie references would be most appropriate...
post #7 of 16
To be honest, I don't know who Dennis Miller is. If he's on TV, that would explain why. Otherwise, I have no idea.

Doug
post #8 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taperwood View Post

To be honest, I don't know who Dennis Miller is. If he's on TV, that would explain why. Otherwise, I have no idea.

Doug

He's one of the ever decreasing few that support the war in Iraq.

Back on OT.

When I heard the Paramount announcement I thought - Hmm... maybe we'll finally start to see more dual format players and the price will drop to a reasonable number.
post #9 of 16
I'm sure it'll be a while but I can picture a situation where the majority of manufacturers make dual format players. Consumers won't have to worry about which studio releases exclusively on which format. No one will care which companies make royalties off which color cases. A player that doesn't play both formats will be seen as defective and returned to the store. Eventually even Toshiba and Sony will be forced to produce dual format players or fall behind in player sales. Paramount announcing HD DVD exclusivity has added a good deal of parity making this outcome even more probable.
post #10 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by UTV2TiVo View Post

Good post OP.
But Dennis Miller-esque? Where's the humor and obscure references?

He also didn't use the word "babe", so I agree w/ you ... it's just a rant.
post #11 of 16
I agree 100% with DrSchmoe. Great post. I wonder if this thread could be linked to the HD media forum where it is likely get more visibility and diverse opinions than the "dual format player" forum.
post #12 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by miata View Post

I wonder if this thread could be linked to the HD media forum where it is likely get more visibility and diverse opinions than the "dual format player" forum.

Ack! Good call. I was direct linking into this forum from my favorites and never realized a new "generic" HD media section was created. My bad, I would have put it there instead.
post #13 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taperwood
To be honest, I don't know who Dennis Miller is. If he's on TV, that would explain why. Otherwise, I have no idea.



Ah! I didn't know that either...
Please folks, keep in mind this is an international forum, not everybody watches American TV...
On the bright side of the war in Iraq:
There's gonna be some movies made about it I'm sure.
Mr.Bush is getting some attention in my country too, my brother-in-law (who's a Christian) says Satan is looking through his eyes (as an atheist I must admit Bush got a strange stare...).
Come to think, we can expect another nice horror flick about that!
This concludes my little rant...
post #14 of 16
I'll have to disagree because it is my belief that mass market adoption is retarded by lack of the resolution the format war, which means economies of scale will not really kick in for either format which means expensive players; especially dual format players.

Also, I'd advocate Blu-ray's superior storage capacity and available audio/video bitrate gives it the edge in terms of flexibility in better PQ and/or AQ and/or special features. Making maximal use of 50G disks has just started (e.g. Apocalypto) with Sony and Disney recently coming up with technically superior releases in terms of PQ/AQ (movie content might be a different story). HD DVD is already max'ed out with only incremental improvements to be seen with "tighter" VC1 compression expertise. For this reason alone, I badly want Blu-Ray to prevail, and the sooner, the better.
post #15 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by oscar_in_fw View Post

I'll have to disagree because it is my belief that mass market adoption is retarded by lack of the resolution the format war, which means economies of scale will not really kick in for either format which means expensive players; especially dual format players.

Also, I'd advocate Blu-ray's superior storage capacity and available audio/video bitrate gives it the edge in terms of flexibility in better PQ and/or AQ and/or special features. Making maximal use of 50G disks has just started (e.g. Apocalypto) with Sony and Disney recently coming up with technically superior releases in terms of PQ/AQ (movie content might be a different story). HD DVD is already max'ed out with only incremental improvements to be seen with "tighter" VC1 compression expertise. For this reason alone, I badly want Blu-Ray to prevail, and the sooner, the better.

The regular Joe Sixpack doesn't have a clue nor does he care how much capacity Blu-ray has over HDDVD. All he will care is - Can I get the movie I want and how much does it cost?

Don't delude yourself into thinking the general public has anywhere near the knowledge or interest in HT that AVSForum members have.
post #16 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSchmoe View Post

From a consumer perspective, competing formats might be frustrating, but competition is *always* best.

I don't buy that argument. Competition usually means that at the end of a format war the winning product is the cheapest it can be, but it often results in a product that's not 'best' by any stretch of the imagination. As BizarroTerl says, the problem is that Joe Sixpack doesn't care that one product is better. He only cares about how cheaply he can get to see his favourite movie or TV series in high definition. Blu-Ray is likely to lose out to HD-DVD because Joe doesn't care about huge storage capacities when no one is taking advantage of those capacities in any meaningful way.

Remember VHS vs. Beta? Back then the competition ended in the better format losing. As a person who is still on the fence about the whole Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD format war, I just hope that the best system wins. That is by no means certain.
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