What gaming headphones to buy? - Page 352

Originally Posted by PJ_Rage

Should wire them with UPOCC, if you're going to go with something other than the standard OFHC. Silver can be too bright. But I don't know what the sound signature of the DT48s is to begin with, maybe a little brightness would be great.

Originally Posted by SID3W8Z

the stock wiring worked well, and I'm not sure what that was. It wasn't as bright as the K702, but was well presented. It was also less fatiguing as well. The Mids had a ton of clarity and presence. I think UPOCC will be nice, Silver might make them too bright so they don't sound like a DT480). The only thing that I didn't find completely fantastic was the Bass. Now, with a re-wire, I think most of that would be cleaned up... and would put these ahead of the K702.... and I'd have to buy them off of KBI.In the end, is to basically clean them up and make them sound a little better, without making them sound like a different headphone.

Originally Posted by SID3W8Z

I would tend to agree with those statements... but if the driver is wound and built using copper.... would using silver to connect to source make much difference?

Originally Posted by KBI

These are the DT480 not DT48.. I like bright..Ala, The SA5000 is one of my favorite headphones.. To me the DT480, while being pretty aggressive were a bit dark..But, again.. I haven't heard them for 3-6 months.. But for 1972, closed headphones.. They fair very well with upper mid fi to maybe 'high end' headphones like the DT880/701..

Originally Posted by PJ_Rage

Yes, of course. Any cable between source and your ears will make a difference. The longer it is, the more the difference. That's why you can hear a difference between OFHC, UPOCC, silver, etc cables when you recable a headphone, even if they are copper wound drivers. But for an inch or two run inside the headphone, from the driver to the connector jack, I doubt you'd notice anything. Compared to the 6'+ long headphone cable's effect on the sound, it would be hard/impossible to notice.

Ah ok, I thought these were some of your DT48s. If they were dark for you to begin wtih, maybe a silver recable would work well for you? A lot more expensive than a standard OFHC recable, but basically in line with UPOCC if you were going that route anyway. This is talking about the actual headphone cable though, because again, I don't think the inch or two of cable from driver to connector will make much difference in price or in sound.

Originally Posted by PJ_Rage

In my experience, I can definitely tell the difference between my 6 foot cables, a couple different UPOCC ones, an OFHC one from sideways, and the stockers. Big enough difference between them to easily tell (ie not a placebo). Sideways also listened to them, and was able to tell as well. 7-8 feet of a better cable would definitely make a difference.

Whether you want UPOCC or silver, or OFHC, I dunno though. Personally, I haven't tried silver for headphone cabling, as I'm a bit tentative about what I read about it being very bright. To me, that's too much extra coloartion from the cable, I'd rather just keep the sound signature the same (maybe I'm a purist). I do like a bright headphone, but I don't want to go over the top on already bright headphones (liket he 701 for example). I prefer to just clean and tighten everything up with UPOCC.

IIRC, I think sideways actually preferred his OFHC cable to the UPOCC cable, though. The UPOCC cable really tightened the bass dramatically IMO as well as improving clarity a lot overall. The OFHC improved clarity too, but not as much IMO, and seemed to have more bass than the UPOCC because (IMO) it wasn't as tight.. was a little looser so seemed to have more quantity. The UPOCC also smooths/cleans out the top end enough that they seem a little brighter, which makes the bass seem less. Basically between tighter bass reducing the quantity, and smoother/clearer/cleaner highs taking away from the bass a little, the bass on the UPOCC, compared to the OFHC, seemed to have less quantity, although it wasn't less than the stocker. I think in the end, sideways preferred the OFHC because of the bigger bass presence, but both the OFHC and UPOCC cables were a dramatic improvement over the stock cables on both the HD600 and K702 (only heard the DT880/600 with UPOCC, not OFHC).

I don't know if 38 years ago stock cables were better or worse than today, but either way, I can about guarantee you that a new (better) cable will sound much better. If I were you, I'd start with the OFHC because it's a great improvement and is cheap enough, and with the design sidways is doing for you, it will be trivial to try a different cable(s) in the future.

Originally Posted by PJ_Rage

What cables did you try, on what headphones?

I'm not talking about power cables or interconnects or anything like that, this is strictly headphone cables, from the cans to the amp.

Unless you are partially deaf, I would bet you a sizeable amount you could tell the difference between the different cables I have. They are like literally almost like different headphones. It's that night and day. Like the difference between a good amp and a crappy amp, or a good dac and a crappy one. Like the difference between coke and pepsi, for your ears.

Originally Posted by formulanerd

this is exactly right, but to some people, cola is cola.

Originally Posted by cubdenno

Sorry man, Have tried blind A/B testing with different cable types many times. Could never tell without just luck from guessing which is which on a 3 cable 10 times test. So I do not buy in to cabling makes a difference unless the run (length) causes so much resistance that the signal is some how affected in the audible range. To much voodoo, magic smoke and psycho-acoustics to justify spending money on something that in my opinion does not matter. The only thing I could see making a difference if the cabling was faulty or the assembly of the headphones was faulty as well and redoing it "fixed" the issue.
'

Originally Posted by PJ_Rage

I feel really bad for them Or should they feel really bad for me

Originally Posted by ferrisg

I hate getting into these discussions, and had worked up a post a few hours ago full of math for why there is no difference, then scrapped it. I may redo it later. The problem with the statement is that on a spectrum analyzer there is no measurable difference between different types of conductors, and that's a device that's several orders of magnitude more sensitive than our ears. Combined with the fact that the resistivity, wire losses, and skin depth are nearly identical between all of the common conductors, about all one could do is purposely color the signal with additional components. If the cable is just wire, it will have very little effect on acoustics signals, even if you buy into our ability to perceive ultrasonic signals in the 100kHz range.

The only real way to settle it for yourself is good double-blind testing. I understand why most people don't want to go to those lengths because of what a pain it is, but other testing is too susceptible to contamination. I can say that I have very good hearing (based on standard hearing tests I've taken throughout my life) and I can't hear a difference between various interconnects, power cables, or wiring changes for speakers or headphones, but that doesn't mean anything. If somebody wants to spend money on any of that stuff, that's their business. It doesn't change the fact that even sensitive test equipment can't tell copper from silver by looking at the transmitted signal, but it's pointless to try to change minds in such arguments anyway.

Originally Posted by SID3W8Z

Agreed.... I've built multiple interconnects and what not... I can't hear much of a difference... but on my headphone cable.... I could. You can through as much math at it as you want, but when I listened to 4 different cables, they each sound a little different... and I didn't pick the most expensive cable... that's good enough for me. Damn the math! It's my ears, I heard it... I believe it...

Originally Posted by ferrisg

I get that, which is why the arguments are pointless. About the only way to get somebody to change their mind on this topic is to have a properly controlled double-blind test with them. If someone can hear a difference more than chance, it's good enough for me to question what's going on, and if someone can't they often start to re-think their position.

Originally Posted by SID3W8Z

I take this is based on your double blind tests and not articles or other sources, but from your own experience? I think math would be based on a perfect example with reproduceable results... real world, things chance and everything can affect and alter the results. So I'd like to participate in such a test... though, I've used the K702 with 3 different cables and have used my wife to test (she thought she heard a difference as well).... and she thinks the speakers in her m11x are just peachy. I've also had my uncle listen, and he chose my latest cable too... and he listens to all his music on 20yr old Magnapans (not that, that makes much difference). Just saying...

Originally Posted by ferrisg

Yes, I've done my own double-blind listening tests. Never with headphone wire, but with speaker wire (where every effect is magnified because of the higher power), compression algorithms, interconnects, and power cables.

The math of resistance of the cable, skin depth, wire losses, and any other effect is not some ideal condition. The numbers are so small that tolerances in the wire production are negligible. And measuring a signal on an oscilloscope or spectrum analyzer takes into account the actual DUT anyway. I've never measured headphone cables, but I have measured speaker wire on an oscilloscope before. I also measure much lower-level signals that are much more sensitive to noise everyday as part of my job. I work as a electrical design engineer and have a fair amount of experience with test & measurement of electrical signals and electronics.

Anyway, I'm going to bow out of this discussion at this point, because, as I've already pointed out a couple of times, internet arguments over this are always unfruitful.

Originally Posted by PJ_Rage

In my experience, I can definitely tell the difference between my 6 foot cables, a couple different UPOCC ones, an OFHC one from sideways, and the stockers. Big enough difference between them to easily tell (ie not a placebo). Sideways also listened to them, and was able to tell as well. 7-8 feet of a better cable would definitely make a difference.

Whether you want UPOCC or silver, or OFHC, I dunno though. Personally, I haven't tried silver for headphone cabling, as I'm a bit tentative about what I read about it being very bright. To me, that's too much extra coloartion from the cable, I'd rather just keep the sound signature the same (maybe I'm a purist). I do like a bright headphone, but I don't want to go over the top on already bright headphones (liket he 701 for example). I prefer to just clean and tighten everything up with UPOCC.

IIRC, I think sideways actually preferred his OFHC cable to the UPOCC cable, though. The UPOCC cable really tightened the bass dramatically IMO as well as improving clarity a lot overall. The OFHC improved clarity too, but not as much IMO, and seemed to have more bass than the UPOCC because (IMO) it wasn't as tight.. was a little looser so seemed to have more quantity. The UPOCC also smooths/cleans out the top end enough that they seem a little brighter, which makes the bass seem less. Basically between tighter bass reducing the quantity, and smoother/clearer/cleaner highs taking away from the bass a little, the bass on the UPOCC, compared to the OFHC, seemed to have less quantity, although it wasn't less than the stocker. I think in the end, sideways preferred the OFHC because of the bigger bass presence, but both the OFHC and UPOCC cables were a dramatic improvement over the stock cables on both the HD600 and K702 (only heard the DT880/600 with UPOCC, not OFHC).

I don't know if 38 years ago stock cables were better or worse than today, but either way, I can about guarantee you that a new (better) cable will sound much better. If I were you, I'd start with the OFHC because it's a great improvement and is cheap enough, and with the design sidways is doing for you, it will be trivial to try a different cable(s) in the future.

Originally Posted by SID3W8Z

Personally, I like my defense on the differences of headphone cables the best...

Originally Posted by KBI

Headfi members now of the infamous 'thunder pants.' The heavily modded T50..

Well, I'm calling this headphone The SWZ DT480 TX1000 special edition I'm so pyched to see & hear this thing..