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HD audio capable Hi end units

post #1 of 65
8/26/07 at 8:36am
Thread Starter 
Do any of the "insiders", gurus or good old fashioned BS merchants, have the skinny on any of the hi-end audiophile companies and new processors? I think its wise for the big hitters to have waited, but i thought we may have heard some info.

Any CEDIA scoop? Im looking for an AV9 replacement.

Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 65
8/26/07 at 9:30am
Cary Cinema 11v (linked with "i-link" to cinema 11a) for $3000.

6 HDMI ins and 2 HDMI outs (all 1.3 versions).

Cinema 11a is capable of 2 HD Audio formats, forgot which two.

There is a cinema 11 thread where the Cary people regulary posts updates, including what i just told you.

So, for $6000 you get "high-end" A/V.

The 11v is to be debuted at CEDIA and shipped shortly there after.
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post #3 of 65
8/26/07 at 10:10am
Thread Starter 
Thaks for that, I appreciate the time taken to reply.
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post #4 of 65
8/26/07 at 1:18pm
Quote:
hi-end audiophile companies and new processors?

Just buy a receiver and run it as a pre/pro, you can save money and get the same performance.
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post #5 of 65
8/26/07 at 1:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluray_1080p View Post

Just buy a receiver and run it as a pre/pro, you can save money and get the same performance.

I would have to differ there, sorry. I need to maintain a balanced system and none of the available recievers are a good fit for me. I need a true audiophile piece in order not to limit my other units.

I do, however, appreciate the advice. Thanks for taking the time.
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post #6 of 65
8/26/07 at 8:04pm
Quote:


I need a true audiophile piece in order not to limit my other units.

Limit in what way? When watching a movie there is no difference between a receiver and a pre/pro since they accomplish this the same way, but if you want to blow a pile of money for looks go right ahead.
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post #7 of 65
8/27/07 at 2:56am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluray_1080p View Post

Limit in what way? When watching a movie there is no difference between a receiver and a pre/pro since they accomplish this the same way, but if you want to blow a pile of money for looks go right ahead.

Thanks for posting.

My fault for not explaining. The system is a full size, full range Genelec 324 based 7.1 arrangement. Those type of speakers are remote active tri-amped. The system capability would be severely limited by anything but the best possible sound quality.They also require balanced XLRs. Video is not an issue as all sources are direct input to an HT5000. The looks you refer to are not an issue as all the electronics is housed in a separate projection/equipment room. I think you probably meant that as a joke anyway?

Professional interfacing is also another major consideration, analog balanced XLR, XLR digital, Crestron integration etc etc.

I use an AVR9 on a temp basis and this is the absolue minimum sound quality that would be acceptable. I may have quite a wait as relevant companies are not rushing to market.

good luck


I was hoping, like the earlier poster, someone may have some info. It seems that many of the heavy hitters are biding thier time on the new formats via HDMI, understandably.
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post #8 of 65
8/27/07 at 2:36pm
Quote:


The system capability would be severely limited by anything but the best possible sound quality.

And since receivers and pre/pro's run the same DSP's and DAC's most of the time how would the pre/pro sound better? Remember its the high end companies that are playing catch up now days and all they do is copy a design that they like, not much changes.

Quote:


They also require balanced XLRs.

Why, how long are your runs? You can buy RCA/XLR cables.

Quote:


analog balanced XLR, XLR digital,

once again why do you think you need XLR cables? Is the noise floor that high in your house/area?
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post #9 of 65
8/27/07 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluray_1080p View Post

And since receivers and pre/pro's run the same DSP's and DAC's most of the time how would the pre/pro sound better? Remember its the high end companies that are playing catch up now days and all they do is copy a design that they like, not much changes.



Why, how long are your runs? You can buy RCA/XLR cables.



once again why do you think you need XLR cables? Is the noise floor that high in your house/area?

Are you kidding?

There is a HUGE difference in SQ between high end receivers and separates.

I've had flagship Onkyo, Integra, and Yamaha receivers in my system and none have come close to separates as far as sound quality...
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post #10 of 65
8/27/07 at 3:09pm
If you use the 7.1 discrete analog inputs that your AV9 already has you can let the DVD use its own internal decoder for HD...
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post #11 of 65
8/28/07 at 3:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleeperSupra View Post

Are you kidding?

There is a HUGE difference in SQ between high end receivers and separates.

I've had flagship Onkyo, Integra, and Yamaha receivers in my system and none have come close to separates as far as sound quality...


And there are people that have also had both high end receivers and seperates, and they also say otherwise. In that there was no huge difference, and in many cases even no real differences at all. Other than the lack of features on many of the seperates.
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post #12 of 65
8/28/07 at 3:51am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleeperSupra View Post

If you use the 7.1 discrete analog inputs that your AV9 already has you can let the DVD use its own internal decoder for HD...

Thats where Im at at the moment.
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post #13 of 65
8/28/07 at 3:55am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluray_1080p View Post

And since receivers and pre/pro's run the same DSP's and DAC's most of the time how would the pre/pro sound better? Remember its the high end companies that are playing catch up now days and all they do is copy a design that they like, not much changes.



Why, how long are your runs? You can buy RCA/XLR cables.



once again why do you think you need XLR cables? Is the noise floor that high in your house/area?

Im not saying a pre/proc version of a reciever is better. Im saying the best sounding units ARE procs.

I need XLR connectors, not the cables ,they are already there. XLR is standard with this type of install, thats why hi end procs include them. Also for critical timing apps XLR digital is the ONLY option.

The noise floor is zero and has to be, as SPL is very high. Its a standard arrangement with reference quality monitoring systems at the kW output level. Each individual speaker has over 1.3kW of power and undistorted SPL's close to 130db.

There are no reciever versions of the best units. The best possible reciever is a long way short of extracting the best from a full range Genelec system.

Can we please get back on topic and avoid disagreement.

... I was just after some unit/company names, nothing else.
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post #14 of 65
8/28/07 at 5:38am
Aren't the Halcro 80 and 100 pre/pro's going to get an upgrade($1500 or so?) soon that will give you what you seek?
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post #15 of 65
8/28/07 at 5:43am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatawan View Post

Aren't the Halcro 80 and 100 pre/pro's going to get an upgrade($1500 or so?) soon that will give you what you seek?

Thank you. It seems to have what I'm after

The video monitor would be a godsend as all the electronics is in a PJ/equipment room. Sweet

Is the U/G for the new HD audio formats? If so do you have a link?

Do you know of any users on here.... EDIT.. I've found users thanks.

Thanks again.
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post #16 of 65
8/28/07 at 5:57am
Quote:


And since receivers and pre/pro's run the same DSP's and DAC's most of the time how would the pre/pro sound better?

While not true for all pre-pro's, many of these units do a much better job seperating/isolating the differant sections, rejecting noise, use better(or more) power supplies, and have better designed analog output stages with better parts. This coupled with the fact that the idling amp section may further introduce unwanted effects, a seperate pre-pro can be a very nice improvement and upgrade for those who are using a receiver as such .
If you can't notice a differance then cool, less money to spend and more bells and whistles to be had in the pack of normal receivers. Everyone has differant "hot buttons" as to what is important to them.
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post #17 of 65
8/28/07 at 12:33pm
Quote:


Are you kidding?

There is a HUGE difference in SQ between high end receivers and separates.

I've had flagship Onkyo, Integra, and Yamaha receivers in my system and none have come close to separates as far as sound quality...

Based on your opinion, its called the placebo effect.

Quote:


If you use the 7.1 discrete analog inputs that your AV9 already has you can let the DVD use its own internal decoder for HD...

So first you say that a pre/pro is superior then you want this guy to run the decoders of a DVD player?

Quote:


Im not saying a pre/proc version of a reciever is better. Im saying the best sounding units ARE procs.

I need XLR connectors, not the cables ,they are already there. XLR is standard with this type of install, thats why hi end procs include them. Also for critical timing apps XLR digital is the ONLY option.

The noise floor is zero and has to be, as SPL is very high. Its a standard arrangement with reference quality monitoring systems at the kW output level. Each individual speaker has over 1.3kW of power and undistorted SPL's close to 130db.

There are no reciever versions of the best units. The best possible reciever is a long way short of extracting the best from a full range Genelec system.

Can we please get back on topic and avoid disagreement.

... I was just after some unit/company names, nothing else.

You just think that the pre/pro will sound better based on price but you might want to look into the unit itself and see how similar it is to a receiver. XLR offers nothing over no XLR other then better noise rejection and since you are running pro audio they use XLR because of the very long runs involved but you do not need to run them for your setup. RCA digital is 75 ohm and XLR digital is 110 ohm and you might want to read up on that unit and make sure it is 110 ohm.

But it is your money and you can buy what you want, don't assume that a pre/pro is better then a receiver just because other high end guys say it is.
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post #18 of 65
8/28/07 at 12:38pm
Quote:


While not true for all pre-pro's, many of these units do a much better job seperating/isolating the differant sections, rejecting noise, use better(or more) power supplies, and have better designed analog output stages with better parts. This coupled with the fact that the idling amp section may further introduce unwanted effects, a seperate pre-pro can be a very nice improvement and upgrade for those who are using a receiver as such .
If you can't notice a differance then cool, less money to spend and more bells and whistles to be had in the pack of normal receivers. Everyone has differant "hot buttons" as to what is important to them.

Unless your pre/pro has a dedicated pre amp for all channles then it won't make a difference. How many pre/pro's out there have a 5-7 channle pre amp?
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post #19 of 65
8/28/07 at 12:51pm
Then why are you trying for an "audiophile" processor over pro equipment?
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post #20 of 65
8/28/07 at 12:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluray_1080p View Post

Then why are you trying for an "audiophile" processor over pro equipment?

I cant keep explaining. Im sorted now. Its not audiophile over pro. Its both

Thanks for the help.
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post #21 of 65
8/28/07 at 1:04pm
DSP's and DAC's are nice but its the analog section that matters to me. Not everyone can hear differences and that can be the equipment or the ears of the individuals. All I know is when I swap out gear and people watch they now something has changed and I have not told them so. Anyway, the OP just wanted to know if there was high end gear. McIntosh and Krell both have HDMI 1.1 processors which will send PCM audio, and that is all you need for HD audio.
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post #22 of 65
8/28/07 at 1:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

DSP's and DAC's are nice but its the analog section that matters to me. Not everyone can hear differences and that can be the equipment or the ears of the individuals. All I know is when I swap out gear and people watch they now something has changed and I have not told them so. Anyway, the OP just wanted to know if there was high end gear. McIntosh and Krell both have HDMI 1.1 processors which will send PCM audio, and that is all you need for HD audio.

Im looking at both, thanks for the good response.
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post #23 of 65
8/28/07 at 1:10pm
Look at the Anthem D2. HDMI and XLR connectors.
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post #24 of 65
8/28/07 at 1:13pm
I would check with Meridian as well to see what is on the horizon with their 861. Theta too, but this may take a while. That halcro looks very interesting. When ADA comes out with something I will be all over it. I love their gear.
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post #25 of 65
8/28/07 at 1:15pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post

Look at the anthem D2. HDMI and XLR connectors.

Added to my list. I've got quite a bit of research to get on with now. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
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post #26 of 65
8/28/07 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluray_1080p View Post

Based on your opinion, its called the placebo effect.


Based on the opinion of everyone who has listened to my system...
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post #27 of 65
8/28/07 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluray_1080p View Post

And since receivers and pre/pro's run the same DSP's and DAC's most of the time how would the pre/pro sound better? Remember its the high end companies that are playing catch up now days and all they do is copy a design that they like, not much changes.


There is much more to it than the DSP chip and the DAC.

And price has little to do with it. The PRE/PRO I have now costs MUCH less than any of the TOTL receivers I have owned and it still sounds better.

The high end companies have much better power supplies, analog preamp sections, and internal parts; and there really IS a big difference in the SQ.
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post #28 of 65
8/28/07 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluray_1080p View Post

Unless your pre/pro has a dedicated pre amp for all channles then it won't make a difference. How many pre/pro's out there have a 5-7 channle pre amp?

Don't most? All the ones that I've looked at (or would care to).
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post #29 of 65
8/28/07 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluray_1080p View Post

Unless your pre/pro has a dedicated pre amp for all channles then it won't make a difference. How many pre/pro's out there have a 5-7 channle pre amp?


Almost all of them do...
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post #30 of 65
8/28/07 at 2:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluray_1080p View Post

Unless your pre/pro has a dedicated pre amp for all channles then it won't make a difference. How many pre/pro's out there have a 5-7 channle pre amp?

The list that dont is shorter.

Dude you've been treating people like shite on many other threads with your nastiness. Maybe that energy would be better spent reading up on the basics.
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