EasyFlex Family of DIY Painted Screen Solutions - Page 2

Didn't Tiddler say that I would have LESS viewing cone issues with the pearl topcoat?

I believe that was a slip on his part. He has stated that it adds gain and anytime you add gain you lessen the viewing cone. I've seen all of his trials and it does lessen the viewing cone and brighten the whites and such. But as I've stated, this can be much easier attained by using a lighter gray.

mech

Gain was discussed ad nauseum many times and most recently here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=881806

It was established that as gain increases, viewing cone decreases. That's a fact. So if the overall brightness is increased by adding the pearl, either the gain is increasing which would mean a reduced viewing cone, or the shade was made lighter, or perhaps something else is going on that needs to be looked into and explained.

So if Tiddler is saying there would be less viewing cone issue, that implies a lower gain, yet the screen is brighter. Something is definitely going on and maybe Tiddler can explain it. If it is only making the color lighter, then mech is right and just going with a lighter color to begin with might work better. You could always test two samples, one light, one dark with the pearl coats. I'm not sure how to tell what shade to use for the lighter color there, but ask the op, I'm sure he can tell you.

Is hot spotting basically the effect of a reduced viewing cone?

I ask this because my seating width is basically the width of my screen. I really don't care about off-axis viewing, but if I was sitting with my eyes pointing at one edge of my screen and that edge appeared brighter than the opposite edge - that would bother me.

travis,

Why don't you just repaint it a lighter gray? That's what you're looking for anyways. I think I read that you already have two coats of poly already and now you want to put two coats of poly with pearl in it to get it brighter? Just go get a lighter gray. Try one of the brighter mixes on top without any poly. Read the neutral OTS gray thread too...

mech

I neglected to answer this question...

No. Usually gain doesn't matter but it could I'd guess. It's usually due to the specularity of the screen.

Specularity - Having the qualities of a speculum, or mirror; having a smooth, reflecting surface; as, a specular metal; a specular surface.

Case in point: Designer White laminate does not hot spot and has a gain probably of 1.0. Fashion Grey laminate would have a lower gain value (it's gray) and yet it hot spots depending upon the pj, etc.

mech

Thanks for the help, Mech. I rather not repaint it because this will be the third time I've repainted it and I thought it would be easier to just apply one coat of poly with the sparklies in it to make everything better.I'm incredebly lazy.... and cheap.

As far as repainting it lighter and not poly-ing it... wouldn't that be neglecting the advantage of the poly? Wouldn't it be better to pick a slightly darker grey and then poly that to get the same brightness as a lighter grey without (but you'd also have the better blacks that come with the darker grey - unchanged)? This is why I'm reluctant to start over... it means four coats instead of two and the extra cost associated with that.

But, if that is the best way to do it (without spraying), I might have to.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! Run away!!! Oh wait, it's just you Todd! Whew!

mech

I have a couple ?'s...I had a screen painted with the behr "sterling"..Where in the Fn easy scale does that color rate in "grayness" level 1-12....And can the Poly+pearl top coat be sprayed with the hvlp wagner, or does it have to be rolled with the method discribed..
Thanks....

I agree with Todd’s assumptions above about texture (optical or real) and that it can be on a microscopic level but it doesn’t have to be.

Thinking of a flat finish paint surface you have to view it as a rough surface comprised of the color the pigments in the paint mix. Light striking a craggy surface (microscopic) is thrown out in a nearly 180 degree viewing cone equally.

Higher sheen paints or the addition of things like poly smooth the surface and in addition add specularity (mirror-like) quality. Higher gain lesser viewing cone as a result, and yes hot spotting if taken to an extreme.

What Todd noted as mild image drop off to the sides IMO is the first beginnings of a hotspot.

Putting the metallic (pearl) into the topcoat causes the optical texture. Optical texture to me is embedding all these tiny mirrors (the metallic) into the paint or the poly and they act just like the rough craggy paint surface of the flat paint but do so while maintaining the specular gain of the poly. And evening the brightness of the image across the screen.

I believe and have believed in the merits of these metallic improved paints for a very long time and Todd’s MaxxMudd experiment thread pointed out how this all works. (at least to me)

The bottom line for me has always been at what point they became necessary and to whom. If your projector is underpowered for the task at hand (too large a screen, too much ambient light etc.) then they can make a huge difference over something much simpler to do. What they will do is improve the efficiency of the screen surface and in doing so allow one to return the same FL image off a darker screen, and when dealing with ambient that’s always a good thing.

I debated long and hard with some of our now missing friends that this is most likely what is taking place in the metallic paints and that they should still see the benefits of the gray with the improvements of the metallic. This went back a year at least and I thought was becoming realized in the thread Mr. Sennin linked above.

People are of the assumption that it takes a special screen surface to bring out the best of a projected image. I don’t believe that to be true. What all these special surfaces do is compensate for deficiencies. And all theaters have some degree of deficiency. It’s understanding what they are and how and when they apply to you that makes all the difference.

The above post is subject to IMHO. And could be wrong…..

Below is a close up image of my screen surface. Not optical texture but still texture at a sub pixel size it’s painted with a paint that has no metallic but has a top coating that has a degree of specular gain.



extreme close up

I am working on getting some 2 x 4 drywall pieces and will make an effort to get these samples done soon. I really appreciate your help.

I have just completed test samples of both Behr UPW 1050, and Easy Flex 03, as well coated versions of these base colors with with 2 coats Behr 780 Matte Polyurethane, and 2 coats of 1 qt Behr Matte Polyurethane 1050/2 oz Folkart Pearlizing Medium. Other than paint tape sticking and leaving some marks on the panels and some taping planning errors on my part (which happened as I tried to rush the process too quick) all went very well.

I can see significant improvement with grey and even greater with the Matte Poly clearcoat. Yahoo! Here are my conclusions which concur with Tiddler's.

1. Certainly for my room which has limited ambient light but some lights over a bar area, Easy Flex 03 grey makes more vivid color and better blacks. As expected the clarity of whites is lost somewhat.

2. I find the UPW with poly too bright and comparatively with washed out colors (although still quite good.)

3. Easy Flex 03 with the 2 layers of the poly added improves the white balance to nearly that of the UPW alone. It makes a significant difference.

4. Easy Flex 03 with the 2 layers of poly/Folkart Pearlizing medium improves the white brightness somewhat more although it appears to have a very slight blue hue on a white scene when compared to the poly alone. I hope this will improve as the second coat has only been painted for 2-3 hours.

5. Off axis viewing (> 45 degrees?) does lose some brightness as expected but the overall colors are still very good with great depth and good blacks. 90% of the time we are watching straight on so this is not relevant. It is perfectly viewable from > 45 degrees.

Conclusion- I am very pleased with the results and owe Tiddler a case of beer. I plan to go with the Easy Flex 03 and 2 coats of the Behr Matte Polyurethane/Folkart Pearlizing medium. Unfortunately this will not happen for at least 2 weeks as work is taking me out of town. That's maybe ok though as by then hockey will have started and I can view these test panels using the white ice of a hd hockey game before making the final decision.

Tiddler, thank you very much. I greatly appreciate your work. I also must say the same to others who have directly and indirectly helped me with their posts and guidance. What I have learned so far has been fantastic.

Yesterday I added one coat of HD poly with folkart white pearl mixed in (one bottle in one can) to my FnE11. The results were great. My screen now has a "glowing" look to it. I think I'll apply a second coat of it later this week.

The reason why I finally did this was because I calibrated my PJ this week and it caused a dramatic reduction in lumens. The picture does look much more natural, though.

Now the picture looks perfect AND bright.

I would love a nice "glowing" look.

I understand that it really matters how BRIGHT your projector is, and ambient lighting etc etc to exactly What type and color you paint your screen ???]

For a Benq W500 in a small amount of ambient light (projected from 11 ft) What sort of color would I benefit most from ??

I would think that white would produce the "brightest" image am I correct?

than why do you guys use grey ?

what do you think I should go with for paint ??

I'd go with some amount of grey (you'll need to decide how dark) since you have some ambient light. Keep in mind (and you may already know this...but it was news to me) that ambient light is the HT world is on a different scale than the rest of life. For instance, I'd consider a 2 or 3 of 60W incandescent bulb table lamps in the room as low light. In the HT world, many would consider that to be a lot of ambient light. This is in contrast to how you may think of a lot of ambient light in everyday life...in non-HT life, a lot of ambient light may be the middle of the afternoon in a room with plenty of windows and the blinds are open. Low ambient light may be as little as a bit of light creeping in from another room, with nothing directly hitting the screen.

Anyway...you should choose a neutral grey with the shade depending on your screen size, projector brightness in the modes you will use, lighting conditions, wall color/reflectivity, etc. If you supply all of that data, more specific recommendations will be forthcoming from the experts (and myself, if you please).

wow the grey screen definatly is an improvement...


I have sort of gotten that vibe...

This will be my first projector, and I still have to figure out if I even NEED any extra lighting...or if the projector light will be enough to see food/beer/girlfriend


it seems the grey is definatly going to be the way I go


wow, thats amazing, I never really thought about that. It does make sense though... in a really bright daylight scene, my white walls and such would totaly light up the rest of the room !...crazzy....

someday I will have my own dedicated batcave ...dedicated to NOTHING but home theartre

absolutly amazing help here guys. I really appreciate it ! I will definatly start my screen work tomoro, as my projector should get here by the end of the week!...

Is there any way to figure out how much gain I should be shooting for ? my setup will be basicly only for those sitting directly in front of the screen...

would I be better off adding a "gain" increaser , like "Behr Matte Polyurethane #780, add one 2oz. bottle of Folkart Pearlizing Medium #487, and roll on two coats according to these Pearlizing Clear Coat instructions. " ??

it's well hidden on art's site (projectorreviews.com) but here is the preliminary review for the w500 with a direct link to the measured brightness section. it's actually a pretty darn bright PJ.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/benq...php#brightness

The way this is going, it seems like I would be better off with 2 screens

One for movies (PITCH BLACK bat cave, no ambient light whatsoever)

&

One for standard, TV and video game playing...

does this sound like a viable solution ?

I would like to start with the "grey" screen for regular viewing first. Then I can later make a "roll-up" white screen to place infront of the regular grey screen

I think I'll start out simple with "Behr ULTRA tinted as suggested ( 0 5 0 LB + 0 2 0 YO / quart ) "

whata u think ?

i guess i should point out that the reviewer, art, had an issue with the w500 that he reviewed so he requested another sample to re-review.

from reading his other reviews he doesn't have a bat cave for a home theater but he does have a room that has total light control at night and motorized blackout screens during the day. he also has various screens stacked one behind the other to project onto and the projector is tested on each screen.
art has stated that he tests each projector for about 5 days before writing a review so it's not just an initial impression.

from reading art's review, even with a faulty projector, i think you would be more than fine to follow tiddler's advice by going with a good light easy flex or slightly darker with the pearl poly top coat - this seems to be in line with art's findings and especially since you're projecting from 11 feet so the max screen size you can eek out is 101", quite a bit smaller than art was projecting in his review.

a couple of screen shots onto an easy flex 06 (behr upw 1850 base)

thanks, tiddler!

this is absolutely the best starter solution simply because it's so well documented and readily available for most people.

i'm lucky enough in that i have a lot of paint shops within close proximity so getting the easy flex mix was exceptionally easy but by the same token i can just as easily grab some one can mixes from porter paint, true value, sherwin williams, pratt & lambert, benjamin moore and the custom laura ashley colors at lowes.

the problem with the other options is knowing absolutely for sure what is the best base to make the neutral gray. bill made comment of his use of sherwin williams gray screen (which looks fantastic in the screen shots) that another forum member had followed suit and it didn't turn out so well because the paint store used a different base.

i wanted to go ahead and get my feet wet with something i could compare my results against and this was by far the best solution to allow that. i also have kids and the screen is in easy reach so it made me aprehensive of using the also very easy true value options.

i have found just from doing household painting that behr paints are a tad thicker (more sticky) than many other paints (much more sticky than sherwin williams) so your instructions for pre loading the roller to get rid of any air gaps and then tray rolling the excess off are an absolute must.
application after that is a synch and requires nothing more than a light hand, really good lighting and patience.

getting a uniform surface harks back to my last comments but i suppose you need to add trust in there as well. even though the first strips i painted were still wet when i painted my last strip, the first strips still had began to dry sufficiently to notice color variations across the screen. you have to trust yourself at this point that you took your time and did each next strip the same as the last one and if that is the case the paint dries beautifully into one nice even tone.
going back after your last strip is an absolute no no!!! waiting as long as you can between coats is always a good thing too.

about the only worthwhile piece of advice i can add is that same as any painter might say - never let the paint level in the tray get too low. keep it topped up and take your time.

there is some texture but you have to be within 12" of the screen to notice it. the texture is quite light which is the benefit of the 3/16" nap roller, i have in no way been able to see the texture in the projected image though.