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Pirates of the Caribbean, big framing problems!!  

post #1 of 602
8/28/07 at 1:05pm
Thread Starter 
NEWS JUST IN.
AVS member XYLON has gone through the pain staking prosess of comparing and capturing screens from the folloving versions of PoTC;
 DVD.
Blu-ray.
BBCHD H.264 1440x1080i from European broadcast.
ABC Mpeg-2 1280x720p USA broadcast.
And they confirm the issue BIG TIME, the error is there, for more info go to his thread;
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post11479996


To contact Disney to complain about the framing issue, and hopefully get them to offer a correctly framed version of PoTC and a exchange program for those of us who have the incorrectly framed version, please contact the about the issue at this link;
http://disney.go.com/disneyvideos/co...contactus.html

Hi just watched Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl, and what a transfer, but there is one big problem, it is framed wrong on Blu-Ray

I noticed the first time when Jack Sparrow fights Will Turner and Jack gets knocked out whit the bottle.
Then the guards comes crashing through the door and then Captain Norrington enters and stops in front of the drunken blacksmith who knocked Jack out and Norrington says his first line.
The two shot of Norrington and the drunken black smith is farmed all wrong, it is framed far to low and most of Norrington's head is "cut of" when he says his first line

Compared it with the standard dvd and it is framed correct, and you can see all of Norringtons head when he is standing in the two shot with the drunken blacksmith!!!

That sucks big time and it is not the only time this happens, but it is one of the worst places in the movie....

They made a mistake when they scanned the Super 35mm, they forgot to frame it correct, an unforgivable mistake

I can not believe that nobody noticed this big problem before ??????

Will post pictures when I have some time, and I want my money back or Disney should fix the issue!

Update 1, I posted 3 different exsamples of the wrong framing;

DVD


BLU-RAY



DVD


BLU-RAY



DVD


BLU-RAY


UPDATE 2, more pictures on page 8.

UPDATE 3, Problem confirmed by AVS member "House", his pictures is posted on page 9, he has compared to the Euro HD broadcast version


And here is an tecnical explanation of what might have happend BIG KUDOS to AVS member a.holck for posting the following, for the whole thing posted by him, go to page 12 post number 341.


Quote:
Originally Posted by a.holck View Post

Just to illustrate how the crops fit onto a 16:9 and 1.85:1 open matte master:


I think it's pretty obvious that the image from the blu-ray is indeed cropped from the center...

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post #2 of 602
8/28/07 at 1:07pm
YOU SIR have a vert good eye.
post #3 of 602
8/28/07 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denner View Post

Hi just watched Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl, and what a transfer, but there is one big problem, it is framed wrong on Blu-Ray

I noticed the first time when Jack Sparrow fights Will Turner and Jack gets knocked out whit the bottle.
Then the guards comes crashing through the door and then Captain Norrington enters and stops in front of the drunken blacksmith who knocked Jack out and Norrington says his first line.
The two shot of Norrington and the drunken black smith is farmed all wrong, it is framed far to low and most of Norrington's head is "cut of" when he says his first line

Compared it with the standard dvd and it is framed correct, and you can see all of Norringtons head when he is standing in the two shot with the drunken blacksmith!!!

That sucks big time and it is not the only time this happens, but it is one of the worst places in the movie....

They made a mistake when they scanned the Super 35mm, they forgot to frame it correct, an unforgivable mistake

I can not believe that nobody noticed this big problem before ??????

Will post pictures when I have some time, and I want my money back

So... a couple seconds of one scene ruins an entire movie and warrants you wanting your money back?
post #4 of 602
8/28/07 at 1:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JE3146 View Post

So... a couple seconds of one scene ruins an entire movie and warrants you wanting your money back?

He should, isn't Blu-Ray all about PQ and "next gen"?
post #5 of 602
8/28/07 at 1:17pm
Thread Starter 
It is not just a couple of seconds, it is the whole scene that is framed wrong!!!!

Or put in another way they simply did not correct the framing in the right places, when you shoot in Super 35mm you shoot in open matte and frame your movie later in the post production.

As far as I can see Disney did not correct the framing when they did the new Blu-Ray master, this is just plain amateurish.
post #6 of 602
8/28/07 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JE3146 View Post

So... a couple seconds of one scene ruins an entire movie and warrants you wanting your money back?

Ummm he stated that it's throughout the film. So I think it's more than just a couple of seconds. And isn't it about getting the original film presentation and not just what get's thrown over the fence at us.




Good catch my friend.
post #7 of 602
8/28/07 at 1:22pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevivoe View Post

YOU SIR have a vert good eye.

Thanks, I am a movie director here where I live in Denmark and I am used to looking at the way the framing of movies.
If a production company framed one of my movies wrong on dvd, I would be very upset!
post #8 of 602
8/28/07 at 1:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowrunner View Post

He should, isn't Blu-Ray all about PQ and "next gen"?

No offense, but the PQ was there. Framing seems like an entirely different issue all together...


Ignorance is bliss I guess. I haven't had a person upset with the release yet and I've shown it to probably 25 people.
post #9 of 602
8/28/07 at 1:34pm
I wonder if this discovery will grab attention to news sites and such.
post #10 of 602
8/28/07 at 1:41pm
Wow, this is a huge mistake if true. I can't believe no one else noticed this error. Who would've thought the DVD of Pirates would give a more accurate presentation than the bluray version.
post #11 of 602
8/28/07 at 1:51pm
That sucks, but your thread should still go in the Blu-Ray Software forum, not in the general HDTV Software Media Discussion forum.
post #12 of 602
8/28/07 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by waynejs View Post

Wow, this is a huge mistake if true. I can't believe no one else noticed this error. Who would've thought the DVD of Pirates would give a more accurate presentation than the bluray version.

Perhaps slightly framed better, but more accurate? Bollocks.

24-bit/48 kHz PCM vs. 448 Dolby? More accurate? Me thinks not, savvy?
post #13 of 602
8/28/07 at 2:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post

Perhaps slightly framed better, but more accurate? Bollocks.

24-bit/48 kHz PCM vs. 448 Dolby? More accurate? Me thinks not, savvy?


Yeah, showing Norrington's entire face when he's talking isn't a more accurate presentation than showing his entire head cut off.
post #14 of 602
8/28/07 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by waynejs View Post

Yeah, showing Norrington's entire face when he's talking isn't a more accurate presentation than showing his entire head cut off.

Wow, so you think off camera dialogue is a no-no? His head is cut off during his first line, not during everything he says in the movie.
post #15 of 602
8/28/07 at 3:29pm
It appears that half his head (eyes up) is cut off). Oddly enough, the close-up shots appear to be framed correctly. So either it was just the scene, or the framing was adjusted to the close-up shots.
post #16 of 602
8/28/07 at 4:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nox View Post

I wonder if this discovery will grab attention to news sites and such.

Yeah I think this may bring down the BDA.
post #17 of 602
8/28/07 at 4:20pm
With all the problems on early blue releases, I'd think the BR folks would be pretty critical of any screw-ups.
post #18 of 602
8/28/07 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobyblue View Post

Wow, so you think off camera dialogue is a no-no? His head is cut off during his first line, not during everything he says in the movie.


No, I'm not saying off camera dialogue is a no-no, but wouldn't you want to see the entire picture the way it was meant to be shown?
post #19 of 602
8/28/07 at 6:09pm
Universal exchanged all the incorrectly framed Back to the Future discs.

Wonder if Disney will do the same?
post #20 of 602
8/28/07 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denner View Post

It is not just that one scene it is the whole movie that is framed wrong!!!!

Or put in another way they simply did not correct the framing in the right places, when you shoot in Super 35mm you shoot in open matte and frame your movie later in the post production.

As far as I can see Disney did not correct the framing when they did the new Blu-Ray master, this is just plain amateurish.

This is not correct re: Super-35 being "framed" in post-production. There are ground glass markings in camera and the film is framed for its theatrical aspect ratio on-set. Many directors even put tape on their video tap monitors blocking out the "extra" picture information so they can only see the theatrical framing during filming.

It's true that some Super-35 films have had the framing of shots adjusted in post- the Super-35 process allows this thanks to the extra top/bottom area in the full exposed frame- but it's not correct to say that it's routine for Super-35 movies to literally be "framed" during post-production.

Vincent
post #21 of 602
8/28/07 at 9:46pm
Thread Starter 
Yes that is correct, it is normal to re frame afterwards in post production when using Super 35mm because it gives you the option to do it!

And it is done, almost in all movies shot on Super 35mm, this meaning that not all shots in the whole movie is re framed, but all the shots where the Director Of Photography and the Director of the movie thinks it is needed.

My whole problem is that besides that it looks like alle the shots is framed a bit to low compared to the standard dvd, assuming off cause that the dvd is framed correct ?

My whole problem with this is that in NO review of this disk has it been mentioned and that I can not believe, it got top reviews all over!

How do I/we get in contact with Disney, and get them to correct their mistake, or would that be impossible ??
post #22 of 602
8/28/07 at 9:49pm
Thread Starter 
If the moderator thinks that this belongs in the Blu-Ray software forum, feel free to move it, in fact please do :-)
post #23 of 602
8/28/07 at 10:18pm
Thread Starter 
I have taken 2 quick and dirty photos with my phone camera ( they suck quality wise ) they are not the exact same frame, but very close, I will take some better photos when I get the time

Correct framing (DVD)


Incorrect framing ( BLU-RAY)


I think it is very bad, and this is not the only place in the movie!!!
post #24 of 602
8/28/07 at 10:42pm
Wow, that is pretty awful.
post #25 of 602
8/28/07 at 10:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denner View Post


How do I/we get in contact with Disney, and get them to correct their mistake, or would that be impossible ??

Post your findings with comparison screenshots and approximate timestamps to the Insiders thread and ask Paidgeek (Sony & BDA insider) what his position is on this.

That should get you the info you're looking for.
post #26 of 602
8/28/07 at 11:03pm
I just check mine right now and it did cut his upper face off. Can you post more on what scenes that has the framing off?
post #27 of 602
8/28/07 at 11:10pm
Dummy, it's cause you turned on those Danish subtitles! Notice how they don't happen in the regular dvd.











Yeah that was retarded .. j/k
post #28 of 602
8/28/07 at 11:10pm
Regardless of format, the wrong framing problem just prohibits the film from being accurately presented on home video (that is, same as how you saw it at the theatres).
post #29 of 602
8/28/07 at 11:18pm
Has anyone contacted Disney about this?

Perhaps they'd issue a new release and offer an exchange just as Sony did with Fifth Element.
post #30 of 602
8/28/07 at 11:24pm
I have the SD and HD versions and I confirm this one scene. There is definately an issue here. This sucks. Lets make this public so they can correct and start replacing all of these bad disks ASAP.
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