Official Samsung 81 Series LNT-xx81f Owner's Thread Part II - Page 7

Originally Posted by johnnybrulez

The pop is back in town. But a slight rise in black level had to be. Now it seems contrast is more apparent even on bright scenes. Backlight up, contrast down. Man it's taking awhile but this set is finally starting to look like something I was expecting at all times. A calibration work out... if you will. We're still away from that picture, but I'm starting to see some remnants of a light.

Originally Posted by LaserEdge


In terms of input to screen lag I really don't notice any. It feels like there may be a very slight lag.

Originally Posted by johnnybrulez

The pop is back in town. But a slight rise in black level had to be. Now it seems contrast is more apparent even on bright scenes. Backlight up, contrast down. Man it's taking awhile but this set is finally starting to look like something I was expecting at all times. A calibration work out... if you will. We're still away from that picture, but I'm starting to see some remnants of a light.

Originally Posted by davidjschenk

Man, Johnny.

You have been busting your hump on that thing! Don't ever think we don't appreciate it. I, for one, am very grateful to you for all your efforts and all your posts, and I think I can say with confidence that many others are, too.

One important question has arisen in my mind over the past few days. Does the 81 have a CMS (Color Management System)? I'm nearly set for purchasing a bunch of calibration equipment (Eye1 Display2 colorimeter, GetGray and/or Avia DVD, and HCFR), but my hope is that I can calibrate more than just the gray scale with this; I want to get the colors dialed in, too.

I read the users manual on the 4081F and there are a TON of hidden controls on these things. For example, I had no idea there was a control called "HDMI Black Level" until Valkyrie-MT mentioned it, and I had no idea there was a control called "My Color Control" along with the RGB gain/offset controls until I read about it just last night. I saw in the "My Color Control" setting that we can indeed fine-tune the greens and blues and what they call "pink," which surely cannot be the same as Magenta (it isn't just Red, is it???). We already have basic RGB controls in the "Gamma" setting, which looks rather crude, so perhaps "My Color Control" just offers some fine-tuning layered on top of that??? Idunno... I saw no controls for the secondary colors anywhere; just primaries. My impression right now is that the controls are finely tuned enough to provide a genuine, though limited, CMS. Does anyone know for sure? Could controls, like full secondary color controls, be available from the service menu? This is a big deal, because Johnny's biggest recurring complaint has been the screwy colors on this thing.

-David

P.S.: Johnny, are you using the wide color space or do you have it set to auto?

-David

Originally Posted by dave4100

It seems that the set that Valkyrie-MT has is pretty much dialed in. I wonder if his is a later set that maybe has some updates that other first adopters didn't get. Maybe compare software/hardware versions of the sets.

Originally Posted by rbarg

Thanks for your post. It convinced me along w/some other private responses from the early adopters to go forward w/my purchase. In the end, these real world experiences are more important than theoretical plasma absolutionists.

re" use as a PC. I have one of the "quiet" fanless Geoforce cards in my PC of recent vintage. Unless I keep an external fan blowing thru the front bay, that card overheats and causes occasional artifacts on the monitor. So make sure your PC case is cooled effectively (which might defeat the purpose of having a fanless video card).

Other than gaming, is there any use for hooking up a PC to the Samsung? I can't see doing MS Office on it (maybe if I was one of those giants from Gullivers' Travels). How good could text look?

If you hook up the Samsung to PC, then I guess you can avoid the cost of TIVO using/one of those HD PVR cards like WinTV. TIVO is probably a lot easier though - like a dedicated computer. (Or run Windows media center a/k/a Vista Ultimate and record through that).

Originally Posted by PanamaMike

Valkyrie
What sources are you using for video? Do you have a DVR and other tuner as well as the HTPC? Does the picture look any different by source?
Mike

Originally Posted by yahui168

My question is "Was your TV free of defects when you received delivery?" Is this an issue with Samsung quality control, the retailer (Samsung Authorized Internet Dealer) or is this an unlucky singular incident? Thanks!

Originally Posted by CadJoe

WAIT, the 81 is no different in features, except added features.

I know a 4661 with only ONE HDMI cable from a Comcast Cable box is able to watch MULTIPLE channels with one source on Main & PIP, having NO ATSC or coax connected.

In reading the book, I agree with your analysis, that's pretty much what the book says, but I KNOW this works via an HDMI cable.

Will let you know what he says, but he DID tell me he CAN watch multiple channels, however he can't view the digital description bar, which makes me think the internal tuner is seeing the HDMI cable feed. I did ask him to check and see if he can watch a scrambled channel like HBO in the PIP.

EDIT: I just found out he is using the PIP button on the CABLE box remote. The comcast HD box must be dynamically creating its OWN PIP screen, with its OWN built in Dual Tuner, and he said he has never programmed the remote to control a Samsung. So I told him to push the PIP button on the TV remote, and see if he gets a 2nd PIP box.

Originally Posted by bigjohns1997SS

So is the TV passing mutlichannel audio from it's optical out to your reciever?

Originally Posted by Valkyrie-MT

It is definitely passing the digital audio through the TV. That works. But, I have not checked to see that the 5.1 channel audio signal is preserved. Although, I don't see why it would not be...

Originally Posted by bigjohns1997SS

I was also wondering where all of these settings are as i couldn't find an hdmi black level setting or a motionflow setting or an xvycc setting. These aren't in the service menu are they?

Originally Posted by Tom Bley

Does this tv have the horrid gloss black frame? I can't tell from the pictures I've seen and I'm interested in seeing this lcd.

Originally Posted by dfp

In my locale, a QAM tuner can bring in all unscrambled local digital cable stations.

So my plan A was to split my cable before the Comcast HD box, using HDMI for the main window and the split-off coax cable connected to the RF input, so the QAM tuner could bring in unscrambled local digital stations for the PIP window.

Also, in my locale, I can pick up all local OTA digital stations with an amplified loop antenna from towers 30 miles away. So, my plan B was to use the antenna connected to the RF input and the ATSC tuner in the Samsung to get digital stations in the PIP window.

But, ever since the xx65, the Samsung manuals say "Analog broadcast only" in the PIP window (around p. 31). Months from now, analog PIP will be pretty useless.

In general, since the Comcast box is actually one tuner sending digital signals via HDMI, why can't the QAM and ATSC tuners in the Samsung pick up a digital signal for the PIP window?

But now you give me some hope with the statement "ONLY -ATSC or NTSC off-air coax. " Could you try my plan B, using a loop antenna for OTA, to allow digital stations in the PIP window?

Reading the XBR4 manual, I think both my plans would work on that model. Can someone tell me if I'm out of luck there, too.

Thanks

Originally Posted by slumpey326

when you buy the 81 or 71 series tvs, does the stand come already attached to tv or do you have to put it together at home.

Originally Posted by thoth

The manual says:
5.1CH audio is possible when the TV is connected to an antenna.
When the COMPONENT IN or HDMI IN jacks are connected, the Optical jack on the TV outputs 2 channel audio only. If you want to hear 5.1 channel audio, connect the DIGITAL AUDIO OUT (OPTICAL) jack on the DVD player or Cable/Satellite Box directly to an Amplifier or Home Theater, not the TV.

Originally Posted by davidjschenk

Man, Johnny.

You have been busting your hump on that thing! Don't ever think we don't appreciate it. I, for one, am very grateful to you for all your efforts and all your posts, and I think I can say with confidence that many others are, too.

One important question has arisen in my mind over the past few days. Does the 81 have a CMS (Color Management System)? I'm nearly set for purchasing a bunch of calibration equipment (Eye1 Display2 colorimeter, GetGray and/or Avia DVD, and HCFR), but my hope is that I can calibrate more than just the gray scale with this; I want to get the colors dialed in, too.

I read the users manual on the 4081F and there are a TON of hidden controls on these things. For example, I had no idea there was a control called "HDMI Black Level" until Valkyrie-MT mentioned it, and I had no idea there was a control called "My Color Control" along with the RGB gain/offset controls until I read about it just last night. I saw in the "My Color Control" setting that we can indeed fine-tune the greens and blues and what they call "pink," which surely cannot be the same as Magenta (it isn't just Red, is it???). We already have basic RGB controls in the "Gamma" setting, which looks rather crude, so perhaps "My Color Control" just offers some fine-tuning layered on top of that??? Idunno... I saw no controls for the secondary colors anywhere; just primaries. My impression right now is that the controls are finely tuned enough to provide a genuine, though limited, CMS. Does anyone know for sure? Could controls, like full secondary color controls, be available from the service menu? This is a big deal, because Johnny's biggest recurring complaint has been the screwy colors on this thing.

-David

P.S.: Johnny, are you using the wide color space or do you have it set to auto?

-David

Originally Posted by greenland

Keep fighting. Draw some blood. That might get the red out!.

Go Johnny, Go.

So, are you getting won over, and thinking of keeping it?. Any chance of posting a picture or two that shows how the "pop" has improved?.

..

Originally Posted by irkuck

In Europe there is now going on in Berlin biggest exhibtion of audiovisual stuff called IFA.

You may wish to look at a pic from Samsung booth, marketing the difference between the conventional and LED BL:

http://www.engadget.com/photos/samsu...h-tour/375340/

No LD artefacts visible

BTW, it seems there will be only two LCD LD sets sold in Europe under the F96 names, 52" for 4 999 euro , and 70" for 32 999 euro.

Originally Posted by johnnybrulez

Hahah. A johnny be good reference. I am far from won over. But this set is proving the best in the dark performer TV I've ever owned that wasn't fat. Regardless of what I think of the colors, now that bright scenes aren't really flat... its creeping up there. Before I was sure I wouldn't take this set over my previous 5070. Right now it's not a sure bet, but I don't think I'm impressed enough to be pissy fun over it.

Sure I can complain about the flawed dimming system but that same system is giving me blacks that I could only dream about when I had my 5070 or any of my other TV sets. So yes, alot of hit and miss. I give Samsung props for pushing for something like this, and the only reason my impressions seem so negative is because I treat all displays that way. Ask anyone over at the Pioneer forum what my firsts posts were about my 5071.

Turning "smartled" off reminds me why I could've never been totally satisified with past plasmas and LCDs... so even with the iffies, this set really is something else man. And if you're a real pusher for that true deep inky black your options are really limited at the moment.

If I were to compare Sampo's impressions pre-release vs. the Pioneer Kuros crowd's point of view pre-release. I'd say I'm somewhere in the middle right now. It's neither horrible nor is it something that I can say has blown my socks off in all departments. I was kind of hoping for a TV that could do the later.

Originally Posted by westa6969

Johnny, Not trying to be a wise guy but damn if everytime I read your reviews over the past week you go from one paragraph to another with a sort of Schizophrenia or Ambivalence - one moment glowing and the next not up to snuff over and over again to such an extent it's confusing and cannot truly tell what you think doing these comparisons and I don't know if this is by design or intent.

Are you truly ambivalent on this panel or does it carry over to other panels you compare in your search for the Grail?

Bottom Line after all this time what do you think? If you had to return it tomorrow or live with it? Seems like trying to pick a wife and not run away at the wedding to play the field. So are you still playing the field?

Originally Posted by DSET

johnnyb
can you comment on
how much of a performance increase this is over the 71\\65 series or xbr4s?

is it truly worth the hassle of selling my current 65f plus adding a 1000 for this set?
I'm pretty happy with the black levels on my set, I do get alot of crush and loose out on alot of detail because of having to turn the brightness down due to the pillars.

Originally Posted by davidjschenk

Hi Johnny,

Mmm. I now begin to suspect that my best bet for tweaking my own display when it arrives will be through using the ATI control panel on my computer. That thing has some very, very finely grained individual RGB settings on it. I haven't been able to find any controls for secondary colors there, but those might be in the Catalyst control panel that I never installed. I'm sure the nVidias offer at least as much if not more.

Have you tried hooking the tv up to a computer yet? I'd love to see what sort of results you can get that way. My guess is the ideal result will be gained first by doing all that one can with the display itself and then, where things just don't gel properly (as with your reds) go into the computer's display panel and try to correct any remaining flaws.

Has anyone tried this yet?

Yours,

David

Originally Posted by davidjschenk

Really? No desktop machine??? You can do it just over VGA--an HDMI connection, while ideal, is in no way necessary.

Yours,

David

Originally Posted by davidjschenk

Hi vtms,
Actually, I spoke with someone at Samsung and they confirmed that the 81s *do* use white LEDs. Perhaps that's where some of Johnny's problems are coming from, yes?

Still, I do find it moderately encouraging that several other new owners have reported very solid color settings on their displays. Naruto and ValkyrieMT in particular seem to be doing just fine with them. Shinraven, while not an actual owner yet, also sounded happy with the colors he saw. Is it possible that Johnny got some kind of lemon, here? I mean, might his factory settings be off or something?? He does seem to be having quite a battle with that thing.

Originally Posted by LaserEdge

I did some testing to evaluate motion blur on the LN-T4081. Here are the testing conditions.

HL2 Episode 1 running on WinXP
V-Sync enabled in HL2 Episode 1
LN-T4081 and Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070 cloned at 1920X1080 60Hz progressive from a EVGA GeForce 8800 Ultra
Picutres taken with a Cannon 30d set to FStop 125 and ISO 500

In the testing I rotated the mouse very fast in circles to produce the desired motion for testing.

First is a picture with no motion from HL2 Episode 1. This image serves a baseline for comparison.


The next two images are with LED Motion Plus set to on for the LN-T4081.



The next two images are with LED Motion Plus set to off for the LN-T4081.



Now for my comments on these pictures. Comparing the pictures it obvious there is motion blur on the LN-T4081. Most of the time there looks to be 1 primary image followed by a secondary ghost image. I picked the one pick where I could see more than one ghost out of all 20 or so pictures I took while testing.

Looking at the 2070 in all of the pictures you can clearly see the 60 Hz progression scanning that is taking place by the CRT.

In terms of comparing LED Motion Plus on/off I came to the following conclusion. The ghost images are noticable dimmer with LED motion plus on. This was the case in comparing all the pictures that I took.

To me it looks like we need to shorten the response time by half for 60Hz progressive refresh rate. My geuss is LED motion plus is not doing quite what it should be doing because the LCD pixel response time is still not fast enough. Based on the pictures I would say the average pixel response time is really over 22ms or so.

I am going to test and see if game mode effects motion blurring. My geuss there is likely no difference.